#Devil survivor is on the DS and I played that first but the overclocked version has fantastic extra stories for certain routes

[loopingpyre]

Here's the holy quartet of the best DS games that are the best on the platform and also irreparably changed my development as a person

Nine Hours, Nine Persons, Nine Doors (2009) The World Ends With You (2007) Ghost Trick Phantom Detective (2010 DS, 2023 Switch/PC) Devil Survivor (2009) / Devil Survivor Overclocked (2011)

You should play them. All of them.

[blazehedgehog]

If you ever feel like giving JRPGS a shot again, I'd try some of the Shining Games, The Traiks in the Sky games, Devil Summoner games, SaGa, Okage Shadow King. JRPGS to avoid would be The Bravely games, Octopath Traveler, Tales of Zestiria,

Well, on my immediate plate after finishing Mother 3 would probably be something like...

Tales of Vesperia (Switch). I got this for Christmas last year and because I've been meaning to play Mother 3 for literal years, I said that if I got the RPG itch again, I'd play that before anything else. Vesperia is a favorite among many of my friends, and I've only ever played about an hour of the fan translation of Tales of Phantasia. That's really my only context for this franchise.

Final Fantasy XI (Switch). The year before Vesperia, I got this for Christmas. Had a friend telling me I need to play it for years and years and years. Especially the remaster, which rebalances the game significantly. Again, Mother 3 was holding me back.

Chrono Cross (PS1). The last time I played this game, I really grew to hate it. But that was 15 years ago and I'm a very different person now. Would I like it more? I don't know. I'd like to find out if I could actually finish it this time. The hate isn't as fresh in my mind as FF8 is.

Final Fantasy IX (PS1?). I got to disc 3 in this game on rentals, but in between rental sessions some kid got a hold of the disc and wrecked it. I couldn't ever finish the game and never felt like replaying the 30 hours it would take to get back where I was. It has been SO LONG since then (again, about 15 years) that I remember very little about this game outside of the fact I loved it being a throwback to classic Final Fantasy in an era where Square was clearly trying to move on to more scifi-type stories.

Grandia 1 or 2. I'd love to dive deeper in to one of these games, because I have some degree of nostalgia for the 10-20 hours I put in to Grandia 2 on the Dreamcast and I'd love to see them to the end one day.

Breath of Fire 1 or 2, We'll See How It Goes. Friends tell me I shouldn't bother with early Breath of Fires, but I have memories of watching friends play them and jamming along to the Very Capcom battle themes. With people saying Breath of Fire 4 is the best one, well... we'll see how it goes.

A Lunar of Some Type. I'm determined to like one of these games after I had my hopes dashed by the Working Designs PS1 version. I think the GBA version (Lunar Legend) is probably good enough? But I know to stay away from the DS version.

Phantasy Star IV. When I reviewed the Genesis Mini, I played about four hours of this to get a sense of the game. It was the first time I'd ever really sank my teeth in to any of the classic Phantasy Star games, and I'm interested in seeing more.

I don't think I'd go for a Shin Megami Tensei game. I loved watching GiantBomb play through Persona 4, but the wider SMT franchise as a whole, the entire concept of "YOU SELL YOUR SOUL TO SATAN AND MAKE FRIENDS WITH DEMONS" concept makes me a little... uncomfortable.

I'm not saying those games shouldn't exist, I'm not saying people who like them are wrong, I'm not saying there's any other problem with them, just that I, personally, get a little too creeped out by that concept, even in jest.

A friend gave me Devil Survivor Overclocked for 3DS years and years ago and even then, I've never been able to bring myself to play it for more than an hour or two. The concept is a little too dark for what I'm cool with, is all.

Also, Devil Survivor Overclocked is a strategy game, which is a genre I can struggle with, and that's before you factor in SMT's expected level of challenge.

I've been curious about Ys a lot, and I do hear good things about Trails in the Sky. Also, it may not exactly be a JRPG, but at some point I should probably play Undertale, finally. If we're being honest, that was actually, for real at the top of my list to try the moment I'm done with Mother 3. Knowing a little about Tobyfox's connection to the Earthbound community, it kind of feels right to do one right after the other, too.

But I am going through Mother 3 extra, extra slowly, so who knows when any of this will be. It's taken me about five months to play 12 hours. If we're being honest, I dunno what to think about Mother 3 right now. I've felt kind of hot and cold on it.

[eirikrjs]

what do you think is the best smt game to start with? not necessarily the highest quality but the one that gives you the best introduction to the franchise

I was just lamenting the other day that Shin Megami Tensei 1 should be the best place to start because it being the progenitor means everything iterates off of it and therefore it provides a great foundation for anyone new. However, Atlus is stupid and hasn’t modernized the game and made it available on current platforms. Every other game released in English is of course perfectly playable to anyone but each has some caveats that prevent them from being fully starter friendly. Let’s check off the available main series games: 

Nocturne: We missed out on the context SMT1 and SMT2 provided to show that Nocturne was intentionally trying to shake up the formula. Rewards completion of sloppily-conceived but fun and substantial re-release edition content over main themes of the OG release (which we also never got). This “edgy” anti-theming then became the context for SMT for long after. For these reasons I really think Nocturne is a bad place to start, but it was my own start, so...

Strange Journey: The DS version might be the best way released in English to introduce yourself to SMT. A straightforward narrative that teaches you the basics of SMT conflict. Proves that Tokyo doesn't actually matter. However, it’s a dungeon crawler and one that is sadistic at times so you may already need to like that kind of game to enjoy it.

Shin Megami Tensei IV: A great environment and a scenario with lots of potential squandered by poor writing, the Achilles’ heel of modern RPGs. New demon art is not just bad, it is expressly anti-SMT and generic. The solid mechanics make it a commonly-seen rec for starters. It is a fun game and may be the best rec after SJ if you don’t think too hard about the narrative or consider what you see to be definitive.

Shin Megami Tensei IV Apocalypse: Its writing makes SMT4′s look good. Was intended to appeal to a slightly younger demographic of early teens and it shows. Its refined SMT4 gameplay might be the best in the series. If you can skip all the dialogue and make up your own story based on what little you see, it becomes an excellent SMT simulator.

Strange Journey Redux: It has the Nocturne problem of largely bad and poorly written re-release material intruding on and incentivizing itself over the original. Gameplay and dungeon navigation have been improved. I haven’t personally played this version but my heart still says to go for the original over this.

Then the spinoff games, which are sometimes recommended to newcomers:

Devil Survivor 1/Overclocked: This one (especially the Overclocked re-release) is a darling in some circles. At best it does have above-average writing (and a scenario that remixes SMT1) but there’s just too much of it that doesn’t advance the plot or characters. While it has grid-based map combat like any brand of Tactics game, it is rarely strategic as enemies usually take the battle to you. These games also feature the amateurish character art of Suzuhito Yasuda, a man so horny he seemingly draws only to please himself and I really think its low quality takes something away from the game. Very mixed on the game as a whole.

Devil Survivor 2/Record Breaker: Not a good starter, especially compared to the first game. Writing is atrocious and full of anime cliches. Has a great demon roster is the best I can say about it.

Digital Devil Saga 1/2: Great story and characters in this rare-for-the-series directly continuous narrative, but both games suffer from a high encounter rate (which can be lowered eventually), large costs for essential skill upgrades that encourage grinding, and loooong dungeons in between story beats. Uses Nocturne’s Press Turn system so the gameplay is solid. Its linear story and character focus completely eschew the series’ alignments and demon mechanics so it’s not a great way to learn about SMT itself. Honestly, you might be better off waiting for an inevitable DDS duology remaster.

Raidou Kuzunoha (Soulless Army): The first Raidou game is a mediocre action RPG set on prerendered backgrounds that always do their best to make the combat seem even less fluid. This is the only Raidou game with anything approaching an interesting story..., well, maybe the scenario is more interesting than the story itself. Again, a bad starter because the most interesting narrative bits are for veteran players and for the half-baked combat.

Raidou Kuzunoha (King Abbadon): The action combat is much improved and slightly more dynamic enough to be passable. Good thing because the story is somehow completely unappealing, from most angles. The entire appeal of the Raidou games seems to be in proportion to how cool you think the main character design is. I personally don’t get it.

Soul Hackers: A game that succeeds at all the basics: presentation, narrative, gameplay. Like SJ, this is a spinoff of the old mold and is a dungeon crawler (albeit one that’s far simpler) and, amazingly, the 3DS version features gameplay improvements and toggle-able features (some of which are basically in-game cheats) without modern story additions. Battles are extremely basic turn-based affairs, for better or worse. Has an excellent ‘90s cyberpunk atmosphere, the characters aren’t overwritten for better or worse, and the plot has plenty of what can be called “SMT moments.” If you can move past the lack of modern niceties and polish, it’s a great little game.

I really do care a lot about writing and presentation, especially internal consistency for the former and coordination for the latter. For too many of these games I’ve tapped out of what I’m seeing on the screen and default to the gameplay to keep me interested until the end. Life is too short for bad art.

But if you’re totally new, here’s a recommended starting order of the games available to easily purchase digitally/emulate:

Strange Journey (DS) or Shin Megami Tensei IV

SMT: Nocturne (HD coming in May)

Soul Hackers

Strange Journey is a good teacher of what the series is about but if it’s not to your liking, Shin Megami Tensei IV is the acceptable substitute teacher that bungled the lesson plan but at least makes attempts to sound informed, something most others don’t do. Nocturne is great but don’t make it your first. Have fun!

[megatentious]

Ranking 23 Megami Tensei Games

There’s nothing the internet loves more than rankings, so here are some rankings of every Megaten game I’ve finished (for every Megaten game I own, stay tuned!!) This needs to be done in “tier” form though since trying to sort all of this is difficult enough as is. Let’s start with this ludicrous scale to get everyone on the same page.

★★★★★ C.L.A.S.S.I.C.S.

★★★★ Excellent games I love dearly, even the one you think doesn’t belong!

★★★ Good games, very enjoyable.

★★ #problematic, still okay though.

★ Not good.

Okay let’s get started.

★★★★★

Shin Megami Tensei 3; quietly, artfully, demolishes the moral complexity of all competing games, the greatest turn-based combat in RPG existence, the purest aesthetic vision of Kazuma Kaneko, the lonely grandness of the universe refracted through punk-rock demonology. Here is several thousand more words I wrote about it. Buy it on PSN or Amazon.

Revelations: Persona; there's no game that has matched its lurid dreamscape atmosphere, the most tasteful illustration of PSX-era philosophizing, choice (attention Gold Box fans) is the theme that pervades plotpoints, characters & battling, Mark danced crazy. Read my lengthy defense of it and buy it on eBay or through the PS Classic.

★★★★

Megami Tensei 2; begins with a mindblowingly meta intro that invokes nostalgia in the Famicom era, a Kaneko character sprite replaces blue-pointer-man on the (beautiful) world map!!, the LOSARM status occurs when you lose your arm. Buy it as the Super Famicom remake “Kyuuyaku Megami Tensei” on Wii Virtual Console and play the fan translation, Megami Tensei: Old Testament.

Shin Megami Tensei; the most elegantly plotted Shin Megami Tensei, a series of uncanny vignettes in everly increasing stakes, culminating in a final cathedral that reflects heavenly law and hellish chaos through both religious speechifying and floor map design. Read my Official Thread about it and buy it on iOS if you haven't updated your phone or tablet yet. Otherwise make do with the fan translation for SNES.

Soul Hackers; A vision of 1990s futurism and occultism, a showcase for multiple interesting interlocking subsystems for devil summoning, vision quests are true highlights: novel perspective switching through both game mechanics and aesthetics. Buy it on 3DS.

Persona 2: Innocent Sin; a manic wildly engrossing conspiracy-minded plot that never forgets to do kindly by its cast of characters, the best way to contextualize Persona 4. Buy it on PSN.

Persona 2: Eternal Punishment; playing this without its prequel probably helped build this game’s atmosphere in its own way, a swansong for the 1990s. Buy it on PSN.

Digital Devil Saga; a concise and brutal poem of an RPG, cyber-Buddhism, excellent dungeons. Buy it on PSN or Amazon if you don't want emulation issues.

Digital Devil Saga 2; a little weirder and less elegant than its predecessor, but Battle for Survival is unbelievable. PSN will probably give you emulation issues here as well.   Persona 3; A tarot journey with a "hip-hop" soundtrack, goth-animu becomes something greater than the sum of its parts, a mix of roguelike-like systems and simulation elements that manages to somehow work brilliantly. The original non-FES version is my favorite since no further cruft is added, but buy it on PSN. Raidou Kuzunoha vs. King Abaddon; the tone of Japanese detective shows and Megami Tensei, Raidou’s cape fluttering across 20th century cityscapes, Adventure. Buy it on PSN.

Raidou Kuzunoha vs. The Soulless Army; seriously, Raidou is the coolest protagonist in videogames and this subseries is incredible. Buy it on PSN. 

Shin Megami Tensei 4; for all its flaws, it still contains the Tokyo Moment. Buy it on 3DS.

★★★

Shin Megami Tensei 2; if only we had an official localization (and if only this game had its own unique final dungeon theme). Buy it on eBay.

Shin Megami Tensei: Strange Journey; Do not play Redux under any circumstances. Buy it on DS.

★★

Persona 4; think about that bit of sadness in the first 30 seconds of Heartbeat, Heartbreak and Your Affection. No matter how goofy or stupid the game gets elsewhere, it’s there where you can glimpse some of what grounds the game's tone, something that gets lost in everything that came after the PS2 original.

Persona 5; a year and a half later and still haven’t sorted out where the hell this mess ranks, just sticking it here for now. Those 3D Kaneko models though.

Megami Tensei; thinking about where dungeon crawlers were at in 1987, this one is actually super cool.

Shin Megami Tensei If; the whole point of tiers is to avoid ranking everything in detail, but this one is also very tough to place between ★★ and ★. Starts rather miserably but begins to reach its potential as it goes on, with the true final dungeon synthesizing map design and thematic concept in true SMT fashion. The lack of new music, choices, and general rom-hack atmosphere is unforgivable for an SMT though.

Devil Survivor; Still one of the sonic and aesthetic lows for this franchise, but Overclocked and its compendium turn this one around from initial impressions. Mission design can get poor and the characters remain awful, but there is undeniable satisfaction to be had here. 

★

Shin Megami Tensei Online; even Kaneko can’t get me to enjoy an MMO.

DemiKids Dark Version; completely unremarkable.

Shin Megami Tensei 4 Apocalypse; Everything about how I feel is here.

[vilkalizer]

I spent my vacation downtime getting through the last paths in Devil Survivor Overclocked. I had already seen some of them in the DS version, but I figured hey, what the heck, having this all filled in looks nice.

Devil Survivor is really good, guys!

...that said, I can't really recommend doing all the endings, because for a game with so many end paths, it's frustratingly linear for the first... like 80% or so. Still, I have a ~86 hour save file here, probably over 100 total given the DS version on top of that, and I still like it, so... yes. Very much worth playing.