#Entre chien et loup

[disease]

MAXIME BALLESTEROS “DEEP GLANCE” (IBIZA) ENTRE CHIEN ET LOUP [2012-2014]

[landfilloftrash]

“Who could see? Since Jean Valjean was alone, and there was no one there. The One who is in the shadows.”

for @valvertweek :]

[jigzsaw]

Entre chien et loup, Jean Mallard

[fatonoze]

[secretmellowblog]

So, what does “Patron-Minette” mean? If you put it in google translate:

Are they really “boss pussy”???

Kinda, the real meaning is basically an elaborate pun.

As Hugo notes in the novel, the gang’s name comes from the French phrase “des potron minette,” an idiomatic French phrase which refers to the time around dawn. The literal translation of the phrase is “kitty butt”— “potron” being an archaic word for for butt and “minette” being a slightly cute term for a cat.

"Des potron Minette" became a term for dawn because cats prowl around in the dawn.

As Hugo says, it's similar to the phrase "entre chien et loup"— between dog and wolf— which is a poetic term for twilight. (It’s a a liminal time between dog and wolf, a time so dark you can no longer tell the difference between a dog and wolf, etc.)

However, the gang makes a pun on the phrase and calls themselves pATron Minette instead of Potron Minette, because “patron” means “boss.”

They were like “cat butt? No…Cat BOSS”

[metropoliswhite]

Sue Wootton - Le temps entre chien et loup Emerald Fennell - Saltburn

[gh0stj0y]

entre chien et loup

[secretmellowart]

Jean Valjean, Javert, and Thenardier are character foils in Les Mis-- and are all heavily associated with wolf and dog imagery. In the symbolism of Les Mis, 'wolves' usually represent criminals/outcasts who attack society, while 'dogs' represent the outcasts who choose to lick the upper classes' boots.

Thenardier in the novel is compared to a vicious wild wolf. Javert is compared to a hunting dog who is the son of wolves; he is a 'domesticated' wolf who is tolerated by society because he hunts down the 'wild' wolves. And Jean Valjean gets both comparisons at different points, because he is somewhere "entre chien et loup," between dog and wolf. Anyway here are my rough takes on their Wolfdogsonas (yes, I know these crosses might be impossible in real life. It's about the symbolism!) Maybe I'll draw more Les Mis furries in the future....

[meirimerens]

what is something in English (language) that you like (specific words, sounds, turns of phrase, etc) that doesn't exist in French, and the other way around. asking because you write prose in your (second?) language; thank you; hope you had a horsesome mountaincation.

favorite type of question but equally there's so much to be said i don't even know where to begin.... cometh off the top of the dome:

in english that doesn't exist in french:

the sound th in english. inexistant in french, which is why you can recognize a french speaker by the fact that the "th" sound will be switched for a "s", "f" or "z" depending on the word. it's not as sibilant as sss, not as ethereal/light as fff. it can be subdued or it can be overt and wide, baring all the upper teeth, almost animal. it's also very common, so you can very easily use it for alliterations and the like.

an easier time "building" words, especially color-related adjectives, as well as the -ness, and the -less. ironblue eyes. rustred skin. chalkwhite, bloodblue, almost comes naturally to the english syntax due to the position of its adjectives relating to the noun.

the pronoun "it" in the meanings of "it ought to", "it should be", etc. french doesn't have a neutral grammatical gender and all neutral statements that in english are formed around "it ought to", "it is raining," etc are created with "il" (masculine singular), which sometimes just doesn't fit the vibe. doesn't fit the syntax, the atmosphere, the statement, the mood.

verbs that, regardless of tense, are similar in tones and construction enough that you can deploy multiple in a sentence while still keeping a rhythm. french grammar & conjugation is, for that, a headache.

in french that doesn't exist in english:

a distinction between a singular informal you, a singular formal You, and a plural yous (tu and vous). this exists in so many languages and lacks in english. it is so wonderful for all matters of multiplicity, of power struggle (inherently Oneirotects-esque), it is inherently erotic in the way it codifies language between two strangers that get closer. there is a line in P2 where, in the russian version, Burakh slips from formal You to informal you when speaking to Dankovsky, immediately catches himself, and Dankovsky reassures him that no, go on. it has been changed for a curse word slip-up in english, but that decimates imo the change of the power dynamic that is implied with a change between You and you.

the word Cyprine. if you were #there when i wrote my yulieva piece, i was sooo mad about its nonexistence in english i just ended up using it as it exists in french, because all the translations in english are so neutered, bordering on crass, and not even in a sensual way. ptoo!!!

the phrase "entre chien et loup". my fave among all. literally, it means "between dog and wolf". figuratively, it is used to speak about this hour of the evening where the light begins to dip, and all forms and shapes begin looking alike: a light in which you would not be able to differentiate between a dog and a wolf. the "between" also has a double meaning: it is the between of "picking between one & the other", and the between of a physical space that one could inhabit.

an ABUNDANCE of ways to have the sound "eh": é, ée, és, ées, ai, ais, ait, ez, er, aient, ..., and to have them often. this makes it so writing, even without trying, can have a rhythm, pleasant sonorities, assonances. this is something i found when writing PSLR, i was constantly running into the -é- sound, and it ended up giving this "rocking" motion of a boat, of waves... fitting for the subject matter. it is a very easy rhyme/assonance, demands basically no thought, but because it is so simple & common, it gives a sense of pleasant and familiar motion. almost lulling.

off the top of the dome here's what i can find... there's prolly so much more. i could talk about how french is so much more fitted i find to long sentences, to déambulations, to wordy wanderings, to sensible introspection, which Does Not Stop Me from writing this way in english, and reciprocally english is fitted for abrasion, swiftness, for a bounciness that french sometimes lacks, for sentences without a subject that appear like gashes or bruises... i have to learn every language on earth ever.

and THANK YOU + you know it yourself. watch this

[eddy25960]

Ives Paradise photography - Entre Chien et Loup, au Crepuscule 2021

[degloved]

for all that i tend to dislike the parallels drawn between hannigram and hoffstrahm, they're not entirely unfounded. and for that, i think, they're all the more interesting to set side by side and pick apart (picture me here, if you will, clad in white and peering at the four of them through a microscope while they just sort of growl at each other like stray cats that have only just met.)

with that out of the way, let's look at those initial parallels everyone and their mother immediately saw—the explicitly expressed and implicitly implied "we're conjoined. i'm curious whether either of us can survive separation." the answer in both cases is a resounding NO, though here the similarities stop. if saw v had been brave enough to give us the ending both we and the characters deserved, they'd both have died in the glass coffin trap, full stop. no ifs or buts or anything else, they ought to have both died then and there (and if you share this opinion, perhaps you might enjoy @tranquilitybasehotelcasino's take this to your grave (i'll take it to mine) or my entre chien et loup.) however, perhaps due to the fact that this is not what we got, the theory is actually affirmed—strahm died, and hoffman went off the rails. it is a popular belief that strahm was hoffman's last remaining tie to some amount of sanity, and that's for a good reason; without strahm, the downward spiral was imminent and unavoidable. this remains unchanged if the roles were reversed; if strahm had been the one to live instead, he would find no peace or comfort in the death of jigsaw. he'd left too much of himself pressed between the pages of numerous case files and reports, the sinewy bits of hoffman still stuck between his teeth. it's all one big what if, but i think it's safe to say you would find him poring over the same files and evidence years later, tapp-like in his obsession of a case solved. (if he let himself live that long.)

similarly, hannigram are doomed to the same two choices; had they not lived through the fall (which had of course been implied that they had by bedelia's unfortunate fate), they must die on the rocks below. for only one to live would be a cruel and unusual punishment, which one might say would befit the likes of them, though in that case one would fail to understand that the other would end it all soon thereafter. if it had been will in that role, he would not hesitate—he had already passed his judgement atop that cliff, and would not have second thoughts about redoing that death sentence. if it had been hannibal, he would not go against will's very judgement; in those moments after dolarhyde, hannibal trusted will—and in this moment, he would continue trusting will.

however, hannigram did live—imo—and now, i invite you to engage your suspension of disbelief, as i'm basing this part off the idea that strahm never did get trash-compactor'ed and instead chose the life of a fugitive alongside hoffman, who also never did get saw-bathroom'ed either. and the similarities between the one pair and the other sort of dissolve here, once they find themselves doomed to a life on the lam. post-canon hannigram are both cannibals, hannibal being a very purposeful one and will being a situational one. if the meat is on the menu, will is eating it. meat is meat is meat is food and why should we waste food? he wouldn't go out of his way to eat people, and he'd never instigate a hunt of his own, but if hannibal needs a hand? if hannibal is cooking? why the hell would he complain. meat is meat is meat is food, and he knew what he got into when he ran away with hannibal. and he didn't "get into it" inasmuch as he leaped for the opportunity. hannibal will allow a dozen dogs in the house and their doggy hair on the couch, and will will allow human meat in his dinner. it is easy, because they're made of the same stuff, and will is for the first time at liberty to revel in this darkness that comprises the building blocks of them both.

meanwhile back at the ranch, strahm could not possibly get with hoffman's serial killing tendencies. he'd never stop being angry, he'd never stop seething. he's only here because the alternative is being alone and hoffmanless, and somehow that is worse than this predicament. and he's furious for that fact too, though most of all, he's furious with himself: for the first time in his life, he has acted completely selfishly. for the first time he has taken exactly what he wanted—and it might be, on the whole, one of the worst things anyone could want. it is hard, because they're made of the same stuff, and there's evidence of this in abundance right before his eyes. his only saving grace would be this anger that he is clinging to, because it's the only proof he has that he's not yet wholly rotten. irredeemable, yes, by the virtue of doing what he's done, but he's not that bad, he's not hoffman. and he doesn't want to be like hoffman. and you might ask, why does he stay, then? if he hates it so viscerally? unfortunately (for strahm), he is not exempt from the human condition, he is not exempt from the raw, unbearable desire to be seen and to be understood and, most of all, to be loved. the majority of behaviors and attitudes he's ever displayed to the world have been universally and unanimously deemed as repulsive and off-putting, the majority of the world saw him as 'that angry guy nobody really likes or talks to.' and then another guy came along who saw all of that—the rather tame stuff (his standoffishness and brusque manner) and the more eyebrow-raising stuff (the tendency to bring a gun into the interrogation room and point it at himself and the suspect and the people on the other side of the one-way mirror)—and instead of repelled, the other guy found himself smitten and in love. well i wouldn't know how to act either to be honest. between staying put and watching my one shot at love hit the road without me, and blindly following my one shot at love no matter what my deeply ingrained moral code told me to do... well. you know. WHO'S TO SAY! anyway.

in conclusion, and in the words of @tranquilitybasehotelcasino:

they love each other so much it's SICK, a bit because and a bit despite. hannigram have brought an open season to the poor mfs of cuba as their love manifests itself outwardly—in the overlapped hands on the handle of a knife twisted into somebody else's gut & the warm meal following thereafter; the people of alaska or maine or whatever quaint little westcoastian town hoffstrahm have relocated to remain suspiciously safe, simply for the fact that their love manifests itself inwardly—in the two pairs of hands wrapped around two throats & the promises of violence lovingly whispered in the dark. you know

[disease]

MAXIME BALLESTEROS “TRACY AND FUR ON THE SHELF” ENTRE CHIEN ET LOUP [2012-2014]

[iranondeaira]

Pour moi cette heure entre chien et loup est celle qui m’amène un pincement au cœur, l’âme fissurée... parfois de la pluie dans les yeux, la nuit était notre ...

[ quelle ironie ( ou pas ) quand on pense au jeu des couleurs - seuls ceux qui savent pourraient avoir un petit sourire ] ...

" Il y a dans le jour une heure sereine que l'on pourrait appeler l'absence de bruit, c'est l'heure sereine du crépuscule."

- Victor Hugo

🖼 Ruben Pellejero

[rue-privee]

@rue-privee Paris - Rue de seine 

Carl Corey / Entre chien et loup / Galerie Hug

[valvertweek]

Other pitch: “Dog and Wolf”/ Between Dog and Wolf!”

In the animal symbolism of Les Mis, Jean Valjean is often compared to a wolf, while Javert is often compared to a hunting dog— Jean Valjean is a wild animal persecuted by society, while Javert is an animal who’s been “domesticated” by society and who is tolerated because he hunts down the “wild animals” like Jean Valjean. The phrase “Entre chien et loup,” or “between dog and wolf,” is a poetic French term for twilight— the time when you can’t see whether an animal is a dog or wolf.

Iirc there’s at least one scene in Les Mis where the phrase “Entre chien et loup” is used (I think it might be used In Javert and Valjean’s encounter outside the sewers? Either way, that scene takes place at twilight, during a time that would be considered “Entre chien et loup.”)

People can write/draw furries if they want. But they don’t have to. They can just involve hunting dog imagery, wolf imagery, or a poetic twilight scene 😄

now that's what I call a solid pitch

but I also love that factoid. That twilight is between dog and wolf. Lots of werewolf potential there too

that's really really good

[secretmellowblog]

I put “Patron Minette” into google translate and

I know “patron minette” is actually somehow an elaborate pun about cats/the dawn, and refers to the hours of the morning the way “Entre chien et loup” refers to twilight but. French speakers, if you understand please explain…