#Gwindor

[eri-pl]

Silm reread 18: Tears Unnumbered ye shall shed

So, we got here. But first, B&L get an epilogue.

First, a tidbit about reembodiment: B&L take their physical forms again in Doriath. I guess they go from Mandos to there in spirit. (It's all "allegedly", anyway). Everyone is happy and afraid when seing them (very reasonable reaction I think) and Luthien heals Thingol from (depression, more or less).

Melian looks in Luhien's eyes and is sad. She "realized they will be apart till the end of the world and after" (huh?) and again, we have Pengolodh's favorite stylistic tool: "nobody ever suffered more from any loss than Melian suffered then".

Oh, I found the quote in original: “But Melian looked in her eyes and read the doom that was written there, and turned away; for she knew that a parting beyond the end of the world had come between them, and no grief of loss has been heavier than the grief of Melian the Maia in that hour."

B&L go to Ossiriand, it vaguelly feels like they don't neet to eat anymore? But unclear.

Anyway, back to the proper plot Feanorians. Maedhros gained hope, because he saw Morgoth is not untouchable. He starts creating the Union, but the wording about him doing it … even without knowing the story, if I read it carefully, I would probably be worried about how it will go.

And we have a clear reminder of the Oath and all that. Orodreth doesn't trust the Feanorians because C&C (makes sense I guess) (Finrod would probably join the Union but anyway). Gwindor joins Maedhros, going against his king's orders… we know how this will end for Gwindor.

doriath. Mae&co had sent brash letters to thingol along the lines of "you will be our enemy if you don't give the Silmaril back" and Melian advised Thingol to give it to them! But he is angry at their tone and at C&C, and also B&L have suffered so much for this jewel…

Sidenote: If your main claim to a piece of treasure is "but I/someone have sufferred so much", keeping it is probably going to end badly.

Also thingol wants to keep the Silmaril, because it is this jewel's power…. wait what? "And every day that he looked upon the Silmaril the more he desired to keep it for ever; for such was its power." [original] WHAT.

Ok, that is new. So, the Silmaril is canonically addictive? Or is it only because it has been in Morgoth's crown?

So, anyway, Thingol sends Maedhros a dissing answer and Maedhros leaves him be, because the Union is more important. Yay, Maedhros, great job, you are doing well! (For now :((( )

Unfortunately C&C threathen Thingol with genocide, after they win the wart. Which they assume they will. So thingol fortifies and doesn't go to the war. (Mablung and Beleg go, but Thingol allows them reluctantely, so they end up better than Gwindor)

Bór! :) and Ulfang :(

Maedhros plays his hand a bit too early :(

Also, another mention of Morgoth's spies (plural) and traitors. So, I guess the fallen Men, enslaved Elves and shapeshifting wannabe-Saurons sabotage the Union as much as they can.

Battle, Fingon doubtful, problems, suddenly: Turgon! First good surprise of this battle (it will be a whiplash…)

The Noldor want to charge too quickly, but Hurin stops them, because he is wise.

Morgoth wants to kill Fingon especially. Why? Probably to break Maedhros. (Also, revenge for the rescue, maybe.)

Gwindor gets unlucky chance (that's what happens when you go to war against your king's orders, I suppose)

The Noldor get really motivated and almost win. Morgoth is trembling of fear XD as they bang at his door. This is pretty cool of them. But then they all die. :(

Another turn: the Noldor might have won, but Ulfang. :( [Maglor kills him and it's probably the only named character that we are told is killed by Maglor, which is interesting]

Also, Glaurung is there.

Fingon dies. Also, his banner is silver and pale blue, which I did not remember.

Hurin, Turgon, foreshadowing for Earendil. Maeglin hears it all, but does not comment, and he remembers it and I have no idea why the book tells us that, this line feels so odd. "Maeglin, Turgon's sister-son, who stood by, heard these words, and did not forget them; but he said nothing" It's apparently odd to more people because there's a reddit thread about it. huh, ok, makes sense.

So, Hurin is brave and great and I will need to make a post about how the story is an ecosystem and the benefit of one character's heroics sometimes lands to another character's lap and it's painful but also quite real. So. Hurin. But we'll get back to him later.

Morgoth is happy, because divides and betrayal and stuff like that. :/

Also this (Ulfang) is why the Elves don't like Men anymore (except the Edain).

Cirdan is besieged, allo we learn that there are Orcs who can use explosives, and orkish engineers and what not. Interesting. they destroy the ports, Cirdan&co escape to the sea and to Balar.

Turgon again sends ships to Valinor, again it doesn't work (again I suppose he didn't ask Ulmo about his opinion or ignored it), and we are told who kills those sailors: not the Valar. "Only one, Voronwe, was saved by Ulmo from Osse's wrath". So yea, it's the "not rebel, but not not-rebel" sea guy. Don't blame the Valar for this.

Turgon is the rightful king of the Noldor (says the book), Morgoth hates him, because Fingolfin, and because he's a friend of Ulmo, and because Turgon's vibe scares him. We have a wonderful line about how even back in Valinor Morgoth was anxious every time he saw Turgon and tbh this is criminally underexplored in fics (this whole period is) and must have been quite hilarious.

Hurin disses Morgoth, Morgoth curses him and his wife and kids, takes him high up, and curses him again for a good measure.

Results of that: in the next chapter.

[fridaywormteeth]

Pre-Turin Finduilas is so interesting to me.

like

She's a princess. Her uncle is one of the most powerful people in the world. She’s related by blood to every single world leader on both sides of the sea.

she’s barely 200 years old. She’s a second generation immigrant, her name isn’t in her parents native tongue, and speaking that tongue is a politically unwise move

her fiancé has been a captive of the Enemy for years. They know for sure he’s being tortured, and all they have to do is look at Maedhros to know exactly how that affects a person. She isn’t old enough to know the immediate aftermath of that, but her father and uncle is. She can hear them whisper about it sometimes when they think she can’t hear them. They all know what he suffers, or at least make very educated guesses. There’s nothing they can do to save him.

what would all that do to a person?

[vinyatar]

been through angband and back

[elven-sisters]

Gwindor and Finduilas again ✨

[emyn-arnens]

@tolkienofcolourweek Day 5: Change ⇢ Gwindor

Grieving Beleg looked upon him; for Gwindor was now but a bent and fearful shadow of his former shape and mood, when in the Nirnaeth Arnoediad that lord of Nargothrond rode with rash courage to the very doors of Angband, and there was taken. For few of the Noldor whom Morgoth captured were put to death, because of their skill in forging and in mining for metals and gems; and Gwindor was not slain, but put to labour in the mines of the North.

[camille-lachenille]

Was thinking about just how much characters in the Silm and LOTR deal with pain an injuries on a daily basis. It’s not always said plainly but they exist in the story, they live, they are important, and I wonder how much of them are inspired by Tolkien’s own experience of war injuries/illness. How many of his fellow soldiers came back home disfigured and disabled and were faced with disgust or contempt?

Sure, there’s the whole fairy-tale/mythic aspect of loosing a limb in your heroic quest to get the Magic Object, but what about Gwindor, who was captured by Morgoth and, when he finally managed to escape, was so changed by his sufferings that his beloved rejected him? Gwindor’s not a hero, he’s a simple soldier who suffered through war and captivity and became disabled because of that. How much pain did he live with daily even if it’s never said on the page?

And, still in the CoH, there’s Brandir the Lame. He was born disabled, couldn’t be a warrior, yet held a position of power until his people wanted action and scorned him. Brandir is a healer, a man of wisdom and lore; how much of it is because he tried to cure himself? To ease his pain but also try to "fix" himself in the eyes of his people and be the worthy leader he thought they wanted.

There is Sador ‘Labadal’ too, who chopped his foot off in an accident and is looked down for that by several character (not the least of them being Morwen).

These three characters are all disabled and looked upon with pity, contempt or outright disgust. They did not become disabled in the doing of great deeds, their stories aren’t heroic, and so their disability makes them worthless in the eyes of many.

If you take Maedhros, on the other hand (pun fully intended), he is seen as made greater by his disability. He suffered unthinkable torments and was freed at the price of his right hand, and did many great and terrible things after that. It is similar for Beren, who also lost his hand (arm chopping is not a love language!) but it always portrayed as a good and heroic character, because his disability is the direct result of him taking part in the great designs of the world rather than a banal accident.

And that’s only for the Silm characters, because we don’t want to forget about Frodo of the Nine Fingers, who bore the One Ring to the very fires of Mt Doom. Frodo who returned home sickly and traumatised, plagued with chronic pain, nightmares and a poor health and was only looked at down by the hobbits who did not take part in the quest if the ring. Frodo may be a hero for Men and Elves but he has little to no recognition in his homeland.

Another character I nearly forgot (shame on me!) is Celebrían, She was captured and tortured and despite her physical wounds healing she was never the same again, to the point she had to leave her family to seek healing elsewhere. I see this as a form of mental illness, probably depression and PTSD. And Celebrían is not thought as lesser because of her disability. She is seen as a tragic story, yes, but it’s better than most of the other disabled characters in the Silm.

Anyway, I don’t really know what my point is here, just that I noticed a pattern in the representation of disabled characters in Tolkien’s works, first of all that they exist at all, and second that how they are treated certainly reflects the views of society on disabled people during Tolkien’s lifetime. The way he writes disabled characters isn’t perfect, far from it, but they are here, and I, as a disabled reader, am immensely glad for their existence and I play in the gigantic sandbox of the Legendarium with these characters and others whom I imagine as disabled in any way.

[polutrope]

Reminder that there are two tormented escaped Angband prisoners who lost a hand.

[omegas-reincarnation]

The reason I don't categorise the Silmarillion as grimdark - despite the relentless disintegration of both the characters and the world, the endless death and loss of self - is that it is a story about people trying.

Even in the middle of what, at the height of Morgoth's power, must have felt like the end of their world, the story is full of people who keep on trying to do something right. Fingon's forgiveness and rescue of Maedhros, Finrod's self-sacrificial friendship with Beren, Gwindor's determination to help Turin, a complete stranger that he literally met five minutes ago. Celebrimbor gifting the elfstone to Idril in the hope that it would bring her comfort, Maglor adopting Elros and Elrond.

Even the things that go really spectacularly badly, like the battle of unnumbered tears, are born out of a determination to keep trying, keep fighting, even in the face of impossible odds.

The final message of the Silmarillion, its literal epilogue, is that things fall apart, inevitably and irredeemably. And yet, in the middle of the falling apart there people fighting for love and forgiveness and brotherhood and every time one of them fails or dies or gives up, it hurts all over again, because they really wanted to keep going. Not even necessarily out of a hope that things would get better, but out of a belief that it was worth doing anyway.

Even if you lost.

[velvet4510]

I guess I’m one of those weirdos who so deeply feels the essence of an instrumental leitmotif from a film score associated with a particular character or couple, that I start associating said leitmotifs in my head with ANOTHER character from an entirely different film/book/series. And I’ve built up a whole library of leitmotifs for LOTR characters even though I ADORE Howard Shore’s original score for the trilogy. I consider these leitmotifs to be add-ons, NOT replacements.

Nor do I intend to completely dissasociate all of these themes from their intended films/characters; some of them are perfect fits for the films they were written for. It’s just my mind going wild like usual. (But I admit, in some cases, the pieces are from films I dislike, and thus I would rather see these great songs associated with something of LOTR quality rather than what they were actually stuck with, especially when the lack of lyrics gives you the freedom to let the melody take you wherever it takes you, personally.)

In the case of Silmarillion characters and relationships, well, it’s a different story - it really is my attempt to cobble together what could be a hypothetical score, if it were brought to the screen. Obviously it’d never be this exactly, but I would hope a composer for a potential screen adaptation of The Silmarillion might be inspired by themes like these.

In some cases, the characters these themes were originally written for don’t resemble the corresponding LOTR characters very much, or at all. Also some of them have titles that by themselves could not be more different from and unfitting for Tolkien’s world. It’s just the melodies on their own, without context or even name, performed by these gorgeous orchestras, that have come to remind me of particular Tolkien figure(s).

I also have found lots of “love themes”, both romantic and platonic, for character relationships, as you’ll see. I’ve included romantic themes for canonical couples, as well as for pairings that I personally ship. I know Shore already gave Aragorn and Arwen a theme, but as I said, these are all extra additions and not replacements.

And yes I have a lot of Star Wars stuff in here, because I love Star Wars…but I love Tolkien more.

For the heck of it I’ll share some of these, with links to each song on YT. It’s hard to explain why I made these choices/associations, but maybe you’ll get it if you listen to some of them.

CHARACTER THEMES

The Valar = “Guardians of the Whills Suite” by Michael Giacchino

Lúthien Tinúviel = “Once Upon a Time in the West” by Ennio Morricone

Túrin Turambar = “Anakin’s Theme” by John Williams

Nienor Níniel = “Helena’s Theme” by John Williams

Frodo Baggins = “Romeo” by Nino Rota

Sam Gamgee = “Rey’s Theme” by John Williams

Aragorn = “The John Dunbar Theme” by John Barry

Gandalf = “Yoda’s Theme” by John Williams

Legolas = “Rose Tico” by John Williams

Éowyn = “Marion’s Theme” by John Williams

THEMES FOR LANDS/LOCATIONS

The Undying Lands = “Out of Africa” by John Barry

ROMANTIC LOVE THEMES

Frodo x Sam = “Love Theme from Ben-Hur” by Miklos Rozsa

Beren x Lúthien = “Love Theme from The Godfather” by Nino Rota

Faramir x Éowyn = “Han Solo and the Princess” by John Williams

Aragorn x Arwen = “Love Theme from Cinema Paradiso” by Ennio Morricone

Sam x Rosie = “Love Theme from Dances with Wolves” by John Barry

Bilbo x Thorin = “Andante Cantabile” by Bernard Herrmann

Thingol x Melian = “Indecent Proposal” by John Barry

Fingon x Maedhros = “Wuthering Heights” by Alfred Newman

Galadriel x Celeborn = “Central Park” by James Newton Howard

Finrod x Bëor = “Somewhere in Time” by John Barry

Aegnor x Andreth = “Love Theme from The Scarlet Letter” by John Barry

Finduilas x Gwindor = “Deborah’s Theme” by Ennio Morricone

Túrin x Beleg = “Across the Stars” by John Williams

Mablung x Nienor = “Wanda and Vision” by Christophe Beck

Tuor x Idril = “Conversation Piece” by Bernard Herrmann

Eärendil x Elwing = “Tennessee” by Hans Zimmer

Maglor x Daeron = “Midnight Cowboy” by John Barry

Elrond x Celebrían = “And Then I Kissed Him” by Hans Zimmer

Pippin x Diamond = “Love Theme from East of Eden” by Leonard Rosenman

Merry x Estella = “Love Theme from Rebel Without a Cause” by Leonard Rosenman

Elanor x Fastred = “Theme from A Summer Place” by Max Steiner (arranged by Percy Faith)

PLATONIC RELATIONSHIP THEMES

Elrond & Elros = “Brothers” by Hans Zimmer

Merry & Pippin = “Flying” by John Williams

Legolas & Gimli = “Rain Man” by Hans Zimmer

Boromir & Faramir = “Luke and Leia” by John Williams

Bilbo & Frodo* = “The Mother’s Love” by Miklos Rozsa

Sam & Elanor = “The Ludlows” by James Horner

I may add to this as I think of more, or even replace certain songs entirely if I come across a better match. Always return to the pinned post here to see the most recently updated list.

* Bilbo & Frodo’s melody is heard in the first minute of the linked track, 0:00–1:01, and again at 1:48. Also, the love theme I associate with Frodo & Sam starts playing at 1:03, making this whole thing fit all the hobbits even better.

[koyunsoncizeri]

Gwindor is in Valinor. That is all folks.

[doodle-pops]

Hi Mina, not sure if you've answered this question before. If so, feel free to ignore.

Which of the elves have a high sex drive and who has a low one? Thank you and have a nice day!

A/N: I believe I attempted this question with the Lords of Gondolin for most to least, but never all the elves. So here’s my go at all. Have a great day as well!!

High sex drive…

— FEANOR, Maedhros (Pre Angband), CELEGORM, Caranthir, Curufin, TURGON, Argon, Angrod, Glorfindel, EGALMOTH, Ecthelion, Maeglin, Beleg, Elladan

Average sex drive…

— Maglor (Pre-Darkening), Amrod, Amras, Celebrimbor, Fingolfin, Fingon, Finarfin, Aegnor, Rog, Thingol, Erestor, Elrohir, Gil Galad

Low sex drive…

— Maedhros (Post Angband), Maglor (Post Darkening), Finrod, Galdor, Elrond, Gwindor (esp after captivity)

[melestasflight]

I was rereading the Nirnaeth chapter last night, and it struck me how many brotherly vibes are present throughout.

How Gwindor goes completely savage after Gelmir is massacred and pursues Morgoth’s heralds all the way to the very stairs of Angband, and even ‘Morgoth trembled upon his deep throne’ as he heard Gwindor’s people banging on his doors.

How Turgon opens the leaguer of Gondolin after 356 years and risks everything he has built to aid Fingon. How even on the last day of the battle, when he probably knows that everything is lost, he ‘hewed his way to the side of his brother.’

How Maglor, the mightiest singer of the Noldor, slays Uldor the Accursed when he draws near the standard of Maedhros.

How Húrin and Huor decide to stand together until the very end, and neither of them leaves, even when ‘all the hosts of Angband swarmed against them, and they bridged the stream with their dead.’ How Húrin screams ‘Aurë entuluva!’ seventy times as he takes down enemies only feet away from where Huor lies dead with all the people of their house.

The fact that every pair of brothers loses one, other than Maglor, and even he would not be certain all his brothers live in the midst of that chaos. And that does not stop them but propels them further until they have given it all.

The battle begins with Gwindor and ends with Húrin. Those who have lost a brother. Those who will now be thralls in Angband, and even that will not be their final end.

Goosebumps. Every. Damn. Time.

[lycheesodas]

the reason turin was speechless after beleg died is because he was shocked by how bad that joke was, trust me guys i was gwindor’s lamp

[elven-sisters]

'𝔖𝔲𝔡𝔡𝔢𝔫𝔩𝔶 ℑ 𝔨𝔫𝔢𝔴 𝔱𝔥𝔞𝔱 𝔶𝔬𝔲'𝔡 𝔥𝔞𝔳𝔢 𝔱𝔬 𝔤𝔬 𝔜𝔬𝔲𝔯 𝔴𝔬𝔯𝔩𝔡 𝔴𝔞𝔰 𝔫𝔬𝔱 𝔪𝔦𝔫𝔢, 𝔶𝔬𝔲𝔯 𝔢𝔶𝔢𝔰 𝔱𝔬𝔩𝔡 𝔪𝔢 𝔰𝔬 𝔜𝔢𝔱, 𝔦𝔱 𝔴𝔞𝔰 𝔱𝔥𝔢𝔯𝔢 ℑ 𝔣𝔢𝔩𝔱 𝔱𝔥𝔢 𝔠𝔯𝔬𝔰𝔰𝔯𝔬𝔞𝔡𝔰 𝔬𝔣 𝔱𝔦𝔪𝔢 𝔄𝔫𝔡 ℑ 𝔴𝔬𝔫𝔡𝔢𝔯𝔢𝔡 𝔴𝔥𝔶...' I hope they'll find their happy ending in Aman ✨😢

[spruceneedles]

Finduilas and Gwindor (concept)