#I don't like hurting Elissa

[imaginarianisms]

if you love me, you don’t love me in a way i understand ( from aerea to rhaena )

❝If only you knew how much I love you. What I sacrificed for you.❞ Her voice is... surprisingly soft, after a moment of silence looking at her daughter. Lilac eyes gazed at her little girl from the gardens she'd used to play in herself at Dragonstone. Aerea had grown much but she would always be her little girl. Rhaena herself knows she's not the easiest person to deal with, she's no Alysanne, she was always the sweetest one of her siblings, and she'd hardened her heart for the sake of survival. Rhaena was far from perfect, but at the very least, she was trying with the limited information she'd had, having been separated from her own mother and being forced to raise her two baby girls alone when Aegon had went to his own death.

The sky above them was overcast, but a sliver of light broke through the gardens. Thank the gods that Aerea had been spared from the horrors of Maegor's court. That she didn't know about the cruelties that Maegor had inflicted onto her. It still hurt to think about it all these years later. ❝I labored for a night and a half to bring you and your sister into this world at Casterly Rock. The High Septon called you abominations, but I saw no such thing. I held the both of you in my arms, you were both so small, how could someone say such a thing about two newborn baby girls? When you and Rhaella were only babes, not long after you were born, your father and I snuck into King's Landing in the dark of night by wagon pulled by mules beneath sacks of corn to get Dreamfyre back. I begged and pleaded with your father not to go meet Maegor the Cruel in battle and to take us all across the Narrow Sea instead; I would have died for your father but I would not risk your lives. I begged and pleaded with him to take us to Myr, Tyrosh, Volantis, anywhere to get you away from Maegor's grasp, but he would not listen to me. I went to Driftmark in the dark of night to see your lady grandmother and I asked the maester for milk of the poppy while I told her my plans. I sent you and Rhaella away to keep you safe in case Maegor's men came looking. How that witch found you is still beyond me. Aegon the Conqueror's throne was mine by right but my father listened to the Seven and let my brother take my throne, and Jaehaerys took my throne, too, when he had no right to it by Valyrian custom. If I had been Queen, I would have made you my heir. I do love you, Aerea, even if I am not the best at showing or saying it out loud.❞

A sad smile curved at her lips. She shifted in her seat, pushing her silver hair behind her as she offered to reach her hand out to Aerea's to rub the back of her hand with her thumb, but only if she'd let her. The argument from before wasn't easy on either of them, so while it would sting if she'd rejected it, she'd understand. The Queen in the East looked at her daughter and, for a moment, she felt like she was talking to her younger self whenever she would lash out in grief, the days before she grew hard. Alayne, Samantha, even little Lianna... all gone. She would not lose Aerea, too.

❝I know you're hurting,❞ Rhaena said quietly, her illustrious lilac eyes glinting with grief, ❝I know you're in pain and I know you're angry with everything that has happened as of late, you're allowed to be angry, I am, too, what happened to either of us wasn't fair in the slightest, but you do not lash out at your maidservants like you did early this morning. That wasn't very kind, so I would like you to apologize to her later this evening; she's been nothing but endlessly patient with you.❞

She lets that sink in. Her throat tightens and she almost begins to cry. ❝I know you miss Lady Elissa. I do, too. I know King's Landing is where you want to be, but... I cannot let go of you just yet. Not after all I've seen. I don't want to lose you again.❞

[horizon-verizon]

I hate how one of Rhaena major grumbles was being passed over inheriting the throne in favor of Jaehaerys, and complain that everyone, including her own mother, had conspired to take away her right to the crown. This is despite her never showing much interest in ruling herself, just being bitter about how her life turned out. No one ever suggests she might’ve been a better ruler than Jaehaerys, not even her.

She didn’t seem to understand the people around her and was actually very self-centered, which helped contribute to her sorrows later in life. Elissa Farman, who repeatedly asked for permission to leave Dragonstone, only for Rhaena to refuse because she was so possessive and could not bear to see her leave, until Elissa got fed up and left anyway. Her husband Androw Farman was so bitter about being a beard and being regularly mocked by everyone that he murdered all the women he could that she might care about. She forced her daughter Aerea to stay on Dragonstone and forbid her from returning to her aunt and uncle’s court at King’s Landing where Aerea had been happiest. Aerea so hated being stuck at Dragonstone with no friends and nothing to do that she flew off with Balerion and died horribly. Rhaena wails that she gave birth to a monster when Aerea ran off, ignoring the pretty big detail that Aerea ran off because of her awful parenting.

Responding to this post.

I already wrote what I thought in the post anon is responding to about why Rhaena acts as she does about her claim and to her kids. I stated that it's not really about her ambition to become Queen or thinking she'd be a better ruler. It's about being treated as either a threat or someone to take care of. I also said that she spent a year looking for Aerea (yes too late, but the point is that there are layers there, reasons why she is the way she is), and that her interest in ruling may form after having seen how much she lost to others violence and machinations--compensation. Details are in the post.

It's not that Rhaena wasn't mistreating Aerea and didn't become bitter with each year, hurting those around her in her anger and loneliness. It's that I fear we could slip into disregarding how she became that way to just set aside that context and label her as just a bad person.

I've often seen some fans describe characters like Rhaena as "whiny" or "unrealistic", "spoiled" and "self-centered", kinda like with Rhaenyra, Aerea, Saera, etc. Characters who do have some of those qualities but somehow a lot of their other characteristic or their backgrounds are eschewed for main criticism for their failure to be the ideal mother, wife, daughter-subject to a parent. I don't really like it. Most of the issues Rhaena had or where her bitterness came from were systematic, hierarchial, feudalist misogyny.

One point of all of these characters is to show how women are told and taught to be very self-sacrificing to those around them to the detriment of their own health and dignity while men and boys can get away with literal murder. That women are also people who commit errors believing that they are doing the best they can for themselves and/or some others, subject to abuse but even more so under patriarchies. To show the results of patriarchal abuses, and the compulsions they place on women regardless of how motherly or independent-thinking they are.

And, respectfully to him, fuck Androw. As I said in that post, he was the quiet incel. And a murderer of a teen girl.

[wardenmages]

trying so hard to keep Elissa's oath intact just long enough to break it in a way that is thematic and tied directly to one of her stronger relationships :)

I don't know if Wyll's storyline has any opportunities to break it by making a tough choice, and no one online has made a list of things outside of act 1 that break the oaths so I'm just going on vibes alone lol, I already know one I could do with Astarion but I want to try and find one with Wyll first, I'm thinking Mizora's ultimatum might do it but can't be sure

Like, giving up her oath for her best friend after fulfilling the promise she made on it that she would never let Cazador hurt him again. The mix of loss and grief with losing a massive part of herself mixed with genuine joy and love as she gives Astarion a chance to heal and live a brand new life free from his abuser.

Or, giving up her oath because in a rare moment of selfishness, she decides that no, they don't get to take Wyll from her. She gets to keep her love for him, and marry him, and build a life with him and their friends, and no gods or devils will rip another family from her.

They're both so good I don't know which one to do but maybe the game will make that choice for me by not having that option with Wyll lmao

[dotthings]

Okay, let me break down some stuff from the new Deadline article about the direction CW Nexstar may be headed. Note the article says "according to sources" and this is just a mapped plan and it's unpredictable.

But it's actually some good news for a change. Well, except for my hopes for SPN on HBO, which goes up and down like a barometer. Sometimes it's up, sometimes it's down. And of course if you want CW Network torched for good, which is understandable after all the mess they've made. However, a platform is only as good as the content it provides. And the more platforms doing diverse programming, I say, the better. Especially with a dwindling broadcast landscape, I'm not unhappy by the latest industry forecast on CW Nexstar.

Disclaimers: I do not stan for corporate entities. I boycotted CW for a year. Then I chose to do targeted support of shows that were addressing the tire fires that made me boycott in the first place and I've been really pleased with what I found. The hot mess that is CW is an evolving situation and I'm beyond tired of hearing about "betrayals" and "selling out just to support your faves." This has nothing to do with supporting specific actors, it has a lot to do with what kinds of TV I want to see and how much it matters not just that the diversity is there but it's handled well and with respect and that CW no longer be a perpetual PR dumpster fire hurting multiple big fanbases.

Let me summarize: -CW Nexstar is NOT divesting from scripted genre or younger-aimed fare. It will be less than under the CBS/WB era of CW, but they are still planning to develop that side -expanding further into other areas. Adding sitcoms and procedurals (no surprises there, we knew Nexstar wanted to have a fuller kind of slate of different types of series), and yes, stuff for 58 year olds. -CBS and WBTV will remain the exclusive content providers for 2022-2023 but then they plan to buy stuff from other studios too For now under the new direction, the article mentions two series CW Nexstar has already bought. The good news: it's continuing to expand towards diverse, inclusive shows. 1. The Hatpin Society "One of the first projects that will test that new studio strategy is The Hatpin Society, a period drama written and executive produced by Elissa Aron (Humane Treatment) and executive produced by Crazy Ex-Girlfriend co-creator/exec producer and star Rachel Bloom and Dan Gregor. Set in 1909 New York City, it centers on a motley legion of suffragists who fight for equality by day and vigilante justice by night, seeking revolution through any means necessary."

I haven't seen My Crazy Ex-Girlfriend, people tell me I should so maybe I will check that out now, but I hear good things about that and Rachel Bloom. So anyway. Rachel Bloom is one of the EP's, for a series about vigilante suffragists in 1909 NYC. Personaly I may have actually SQUEAKED OUT LOUD reading about this. I would like to watch this series. They don't know which studio will be producing yet. 2. Jake Chang "Jake Chang, from Oanh Ly, Viet Nguyen & Daniel Dae Kim’s 3AD, which is produced by WBTV. It is part of the CW’s core genre efforts and reflects the network’s push for on-screen representation over the last several years." Kung Fu has been doing really well for CW and it's good to see more Asian rep being added, and with Asian producers. Including Daniel Dae Kim's company.

From the og announcement (back in June): "Jake Chang is an Asian-American–led mystery following a 16-year-old private investigator as he navigates the racially and socioeconomically diverse worlds of his ever-gentrifying home of Chinatown, and the elite private high school he attends. The show will blend soapy teen drama with the neon noir aesthetic, all while flipping nearly every Asian stereotype—honor, martial arts, destiny, lineage, parental sacrifice—on its head."

This seems like an environment where the expanded and more diverse SPN universe can do well and where Gotham Knights will also be right at home. I don't worry much about the survival of The Winchesters or Gotham Knights, because even if CW Nextar ditches them, they can go to HBO Max. And lbr, a lot of us would like SPN done with CW forever, SPN on HBO Max dreams.

But I'm not sorry the platform will continue to create diverse content or that SPN and Gotham Knights can probably do well there. Walker should be fine as well, given it appeals to older audiences already.

So CW making J2M their centerpieces at the May 2022 upfronts, seems like they plan to work with all 3 of them for a long time.

What CW Nexstar is doing is trying to make itself a "real" network, with the variety of programming the broadcast networks have. If you've noticed--CW was always slanted heavily to only one thing most of the time, teen dramas or soaps, and genre aimed at younger audiences, superheroes, SF, horror, all hourlong. Not much sitcoms. Very few things outside that. CW Nexstar's idea seems to be--they'll have it all. Teen dramas, teen soaps, genre series, more diversity, sitcoms, procedurals, and middle of the road things (i.e. for a more conservative audience, but that's true of the big broadcast networks). They want to compete with ABC, CBS, NBC, FOX. Old CW never actually tried to. Nexstar is going to give it a go.

[tozettastone]

who are your da game protags / what are they like?

Oh I like to replay with different protagonists...

I admit my origins characters became kind of a wash? I didn't find the role-playing aspect of that game very compelling. But one of them at least: I had an Elissa Cousland with a two handed sword because there was some specific voice that didn't occur for the other backgrounds...? and I liked listening to her scream when the darkspawn popped out. She killed Cauthrien directly getting out of the estate (this was the hardest fight for me in the game because I had poor AOE but I like to think Elissa is just an ambulatory battering ram), and bullied Alistair into performing the rite with Morrigan. She came thiiiis close to not recruiting Nathaniel due to how his dad organised the murder of her whole family.

I'll put in a read more here to save your dash.

I did do a friendly/diplomatic/painfully earnest Hawke, though, because purple Hawke is very smug. It can be harder to raise points with some characters (Varric. It's Varric.) but also you don't have to put up with purple Hawke so. Pros and cons. I like to think of Marian as a hurt and resigned idealist who, unfortunately for her, feels very deeply. Romanced Isabela, and in my personal and permanent headcanon ran away with her to the sea. Kirkwall was a place where she was "trying to steer a sinking ship," but that really doesn't change the impact of the city on her! Being pirate scum is a hard life, too, but it's on a smaller scale, and Isabela makes, like, 89% of all difficult choices. Marian gets to switch her brain off and just do what she's told most of the time, nowadays. (I suspect this annoys Isabela, who is very interested in freedom and self-determination, but if nothing else it pays dividends when the ship gets attacked and Hawke is, like, right there, going from 0 to 100 on the murder scale in 0.2 seconds. And maybe Hawke will recover some, in a few years.)

I think this characterisation also makes sense with how protective Varric is over her in DA2 and DA:I. No, you can't talk to Marian. She's busy. Retired. Busy. Retired and busy!

DA:I... I have replayed DA:I with a lot of different characters, because it isn't the same six maps on repeat until i lose my mind, so this is ironically harder to answer. Initially, though, I went with playing a kossith/qunari and got sad when The Iron Bull was still way bigger. Why you gotta do me dirty like that, Bioware? Do you think players pick this race so they can NOT be the biggest character in every room? ;—;

But I liked playing a big horned bastard who turned out to be a mage instead of the more obvious big character-big sword dynamic. Unexpected. Also, should have gotten you a +2 on beating assailants with your staff or something. C'mon, she's like 8 feet tall, you know she hits like a freight train.

The first playthrough, I did a Sera romance! and while the duel in the Josie romance is also excellent, I basically have to roll a male character to avoid tripping and falling into a Sera romance now RIP. If I could write her voice (I cannot) I'd write Sera fic, she's so cute and, like... grating in interesting ways? And deceptively complex? The criminology grad urge to dissect her.

[backjustforberena]

So where do people get the idea that you can't steal a dragon in defending Aemond? We've seen in the books people charged with it, or punished for it. Saera, Viserra, and Queen Rhaena's lover Elissa Farman are all accused of it, with Jaehaerys threatening death for it and punishing each or trying to quite severely.

Like, it's expressly stated that Saera tried to STEAL a dragon and was imprisoned in a tower for it, so just being the child of the King does not mean you can just claim a dragon.

Okay, so. This is my personal perspective, these are my own views on a subject that I know gets a lot of discourse surrounding it. I don't know what prompted this ask (though, hello, you're very welcome, take a chair - sorry it took me so long!) so we're just going to dive in and feel free to disagree with me or not.

A quick correction to your argument: Viserra never tried to steal a dragon - she decided to race her companions back to the Red Keep, drunk, and was thrown from her horse's saddle and broke her neck. No dragons involved. She was nowhere near Rhaenys's Hill or the Dragonpit when she died. So, I hope you don't mind if I remove her from the discussion.

My big point is this: I do not believe that what Aemond did is the same as what Elissa or Saera did. I do not believe the situations are the same and the differences do make a difference. I also don't think anyone has ever been charged with stealing a dragon and we have no evidence that it is a specific crime, nor that Jaeahaerys had "rules" surrounding his children and dragons. Maybe he had them in his head, but there's nothing in the book.

The way I separate is this: bonding with a dragon is not stealing it. However, you can disobey or commit an act against the King and/or the rule of law. A dragon is a willing beast and doesn't bond with just anyone. You can't make a dragon do what it doesn't want to do. However, a dragon can be under guard or considered as the King's property to do what he likes with, therefore claiming the dragon or liberating it or whatever, is a matter that can be punished. Dragon eggs are considered property, if they are from a dragon that the King cares for or else is cared for on Dragonstone or under guard.

So Elissa committed a crime. She stole dragon eggs. Just as Daemon stole an egg. They were under guard and were taken without permission. Saera, it is unclear what specifically she was punished for. Just sort of... everything she was doing? It doesn't start and end with dragons. Saera trying to claim a dragon was not the issue at the time. She never makes it to a dragon - she's never actively accused of it, in the way one might do with a crime. No trial. No sentencing. What was the issue was that she escaped her rooms and tried to flee. She disobeyed the King, she stole a horse, she left the castle without permission and then she trespassed in the Dragonpit and was caught. Her list of offences before that are long, in Jaehaerys's mind. This was just a nail in her coffin that sent her to Old Town.

There's no difference in punishment, to me, as to whether she planned to escape via dragon or escape via ship. She's locked in the tower because she tried to escape... end of. And she's locked in a cell because she's already escaped her rooms. Her punishment following on from that was a few years of becoming a novice - something that was never seen to be lifelong. Just a few years to teach her the error of her ways and hope she'll change from it.

The only time Jaehaerys uses the word "steal" is years down the line, when Alysanne wants to get her back. It's effusive language as much as anything else. It's harsh and it's made to be harsh. He does it to hurt his wife and he lists her "crimes", including pushing a woman down the stairs. So, I don't know if it's how he saw it at the time, but that's just my reading of it - Saera's punishment would have been what it is, regardless of the dragon involvement. I think if Jaehaerys was prioritising that as a crime over everything else, it would have been recorded as thunderous. It's not, in my view. He wonders, instead.

Anyway, that's my two cents on that. What makes Aemond's situation so different? Vhagar is not under the King's control or sway. Vhagar isn't in the Dragonpit or Dragonstone or bonded to anyone. She is, one could equate her to, a wild dragon, rather than a dragon under the King's care. Aemond is not trespassing anywhere, he is not doing anything he has been expressly forbidden from doing, or going against anything the King has said. So, he's not stealing property, as Elissa did. And he's not been instructed to stay in the Red Keep or gone for a dragon that's in the Dragonpit. He doesn't really need permission to do what he does. That's why the concept of "stealing a dragon" for Aemond... doesn't really exist in the book.

So, in the show, we have the line "someone stole Vhagar". This is an emotionally driven line, rather than a logically driven one. To Baela and Rhaena, that dragon was and still is their mother's. She's Laena's. That's all they've ever known and we know they are still struggling with the idea that their mother has gone. And, Rhaena has the idea, in her head, that she eventually wants to claim Vhagar and that she has what amounts to first dibs. That's not a thing, but we can totally see and recognise that, in her grief, she might hold onto that hope. We can empathise. She wasn't expecting anyone else to claim Vhagar. So whilst the logic over dragons fails a little, she still has every right to feel angry, betrayed and confused.

In the show, is what Aemond did a bad thing? Yes! He bonded with Vhagar on the night of Laena's funeral! That's not a nice or courteous or considerate thing to do. He does it under cover of night and he does it without taking into account anyone else or asking if it's an okay thing for him to do. He doesn't need to do any of that and he has his own motivations and insecurities driving him to do it how he did, but at the end of the day, whilst he cannot "steal" a dragon, Rhaena and Baela and anyone else can feel hurt and offended and angry by what he does.

[brennacedria]

In addition to a few other little things, Brian is gifting me one Art™ of my choice for our 15th anniversary.

I'm thinking Ria or Neria since those are my characters he likes most (and his feelings are a little hurt I'm getting a tarot of Vrania already with bonus money; she's a Bad Person and he Doesn't Like Her) but I'm not 100%. I also don't have an artist.

But anyway, like... Idk??? I figure a tarot of one of them. Or maybe a character sheet thing? If that, then both Elissa and Vrania get put back in as options.

I guess I have my art wishlist for a reason, but it's so old it'll take a while to see who's still active, who does tarot/chara sheets, that I can afford. (I technically wasn't given a budget; he was originally gonna get me a new laptop but there wasn't one I liked enough that was worth the cost.)

[brainflush]

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