#I just don't believe feyre as a character

[bookbitchx]

Does SJM look at the poor excuse of the ACOSF plot and goes "I fucked up?" bc I do.

I get her needing to sideline Rhysand and Feyre so the fan base can focus on the new main characters, but... Nope, just Nope.

She could have easily had them have the death bat baby in ACOFS (although that's a whole other can of worms) and used that as an excuse for them to sit out the big fights/wars since they're focusing on family and 'rebuilding' the NC.

'Oh, she had to do it because Nesta needed to redeem herself.' Redeem herself for what..? Saying mean things? Having trauma after having been stripped of everything she's ever known and trying to drown it out alone without bothering anyone? Wanting to be left alone then finally snapping when her boundaries are disregarded like trash?

On top of all of that... she gave up her powers (although I don't think she really has) to save all of them over that stupid, childish, irresponsible death pact... Should have saved Nyx and let Feysand die tbh.

I'm not even gonna touch Nessian bc how could she have fumbled that bag so badly? I refuse to believe that those are the same characters who were going to die together.

[theshadowsingersraven]

I don't understand why people are so adamant about the idea that SJM would/could change her entire writing style, love for fated mates, and patterns for Elain and Elain only.

Like, why? Why does everyone suddenly care about the "ethics" of a mating bond or the "wants of the character" just when it comes to Elain? Why do people suddenly stop loving fated mates, forced proximity, strangers to lovers, etc. when it comes to Elain? Why do people suddenly believe that her love story with her mate could overshadow her own growth and development when that didn't happen with Feyre or Nesta?

I don't understand why people in this fanbase treat Elain with this random ""autonomy"" that was never given to Feyre or Nesta. It's giving such infantilization for a character that these people swear up and down is underestimated (true) and yet they do the exact same thing the Inner Circle does, but in real life.

"Elain doesn't like Lucien!"

1. We don't know that. We don't have her POV, and she's only ever said that she doesn't want a mate, not that she has an issue with Lucien. We need her POV to know for certain how she feels. If you don't think we need that and her "body language" or "observable reactions" are enough, respectfully, nothing you say about Elain is going to be worth my time. If you can't acknowledge that a character can have more complex internal feelings that don't match her external expressions, especially considering how Nesta and Feyre behaved with their mates prior, then I don't want to hear any of your analysis. It seems surface-level at best, and I'm not interested in starting and ending character analysis at their surface-level, external behaviors.

2. Okay, say for instance that she doesn't like Lucien.

And?

Did we not all read Feyre going through not one but two enemies to lovers, forced proximity dynamics with both Tamlin and then Rhysand?

Feyre quite literally referred to Tamlin as her captor, and built traps in her room because she didn't feel safe in his manor.

Did any one of those same people give nearly as much of a shit that she didn't like either of them or wring their hands about it to this degree?

I can tell you one thing: I shipped Feylin during ACOTAR and then Feysand during ACOMAF, as I'm sure plenty of people did, too. And a majority of these people adore Feysand.

What about Nessian during ACOFAS and ACOSF?

Did any one of them give a shit that Nesta didn't have a "choice" either when SJM wrote a forced proximity love story for her character? When Nesta kept pushing away Cassian and told him to leave her alone? And Cassian believed that she wanted nothing to do with him? Shouldn't that greatly upset those people?

It didn't upset me because I like enemies to lovers and forced proximity tropes. I didn't question the morals of ethics of the tropes or the mating bond during their book. And if those same people didn't either, then I raise them all, as well as generally most of the fanbase this question:

Who cares if Elain doesn't like Lucien? Elain is a fictional character written by a fated mates and enemies-to-lovers author.

Like...what do you guys think you're reading? Do you not expect her character to change and evolve and thus feel differently about things?

I'm tired of these lukewarm, inconsistent takes that only prove that people just don't want her to be with Lucien because he isn't "as hot" (when everyone in the series remarks on how handsome Lucien is) or broody like Azriel is. I'm tired of people projecting themselves onto Elain and claim that they want what "she wants" when not a single one of us know for sure what she wants, and it's just an excuse for people to feel "correct" or "just" in their preference.

Everyone wants something for Elain if you have skin in the game for her endgame ship. Because you have to. Elain will never be able to choose her endgame for herself because she is a character, and SJM or fanfic authors writing her decide for her.

That is just how writing works. Love to break it to you.

Yes, she wanted Azriel at one point. But he rejected her by calling their almost-kiss a mistake, and then she gave back the necklace. There are no interactions between them on page after this.

We no longer know for certain what Elain "wants". We only have the last time SJM put on page what Elain currently feels toward Azriel and Lucien from other character's point of view.

Elain's character deserves better than the infantilizing stans that treat her as if she's somehow so beleaguered and victimized. She's not. She's a character with trauma, just like her sisters. She's a character that people will villianize or adore, just like her sisters. She's a character that gets both warranted and unfair criticism, just like her sisters. She's just a character.

Everyone's love or appreciation or disdain for her is real, but Elain herself will never be real. And some people really, really need to internalize this.

[timelessphoenix]

Does not make sense in my brain that Feyre doesn't know how to read or pronounce a bunch of different words and the book is written in fairly descriptive first person perspective.

Sounds a tad elitist, but congnitive dissonance is all it is. I understand that just because I can say the word "position" doesn't mean I can attach the sounds to the letters of the word when I read it on a page. But it's weird to be reading words like "crimson" from her perspective when she probably couldn't read it off a page herself. Also, she's lived in poverty for so long; does she realistically know a lot of the words she uses in her perspective? This comes up in the same chapter. "I searched for the word in the half-forgotten part of my mind. Mural. That's what it was (114)." But she's got no trouble meandering through the labyrinths of books both in front of her and on the mezzanine dangling above. Seems like Maas picks and chooses when Feyre does and doesn't know words she may (or may not) have heard and/or known in her small time as a wealthy kid. And "meandering" is a word you pick up almost exclusively by reading!! Who SAYS that in common speech??

It's just an aspect of Feyre's character that makes me think it'd be better if this was written in third person pov. Anyhoo. I keep writing this to avoid reading. Back to trucking through.

[abruisedmuse]

Yall are delusional if you think Nesta is going to leave Cassian or the night court. First, they are mated. Not just mates. Mated. They accepted the bond, and SJM loves her Heas. It's a done deal. So either keep reading and deal with it or drop the series and find something you enjoy. Not to mention if they even could break the bond, how empty and broken Nesta would be for eternity. You really want that for her?

HOFAS happened three months after acosf. There's still alot of healing on Nesta’s part. Just because she saved Rhys, Feyre, and Nyx doesn't mean things are swept under the rug with them. Her and Cassian are both fiery and stubborn. They are going to have arguments. Honestly, it's perfectly normal for them to argue on occasion.

This. What Nesta did in HOFAS. Went beyond her and Cassian, beyond Rhys. This was a decision that Nesta should not have made herself. Yes I understand that she saw Bryce's desperation and understood her. She probably put herself in Bryces shoes for a moment. She took a chance. But it's a huge fucken chance because they don't know nor trust Bryce fully. And if she failed the whole of Prythian/Midgard is fucked. They have nothing to defend themselves against the weaponry Rigelus has. They will all die. Including Nesta Archeron.

Rhys had every right to scold her. And Her saying he's not her High Lord isn't accurate. She lives in his lands. Whether she wants to admit it or not. If any of the courts got wind of what was happening with Bryce or that Nesta gave this mask up to a stranger from another world do you know who would be faulted? Not Nesta. Rhys and Feyre would. They would suffer the consequences because Nesta falls under their lands. Their rule.

And now Cassian, who apparently had never defended Nesta once. Again. Nesta was In. The. Wrong. Her actions were beneficial and understandable but wrong. Cassian being upset and disappointed in her would absolutely make sense. Think of times in TOG, when Rowan wasn't happy with Aelin. He stood there silent until they were alone. That's more than likely what happened. Cassian didn't say his piece until everyone left. It's an argument between Nesta and Cassian and no one else.

That argument. The one that happened off page yet everyone wants to fucking crucify Cassian over cause you think you know what he said. When in reality you don't. Is wild. Three months ago, when she was with Emerie and Gwyn, they were taken and placed in the Blood Rite where he was helpless in going to her. He lost her briefly in the bog, watched her put her life at risk. How many times in acosf? He went a year or so watching Nesta absolutely ruin herself, had her lay over his body in front of Hybern, almost losing her, them, then too. Now, someone, a stranger and someone potentially dangerous, opened a portal in his living room where his mate was. And he wasn't there. All that trauma and ptsd he keeps on lock was blown wide open.

So now Cassian is a storm of emotions when he arrives home. Probably arrived mid argument between Nesta and Rhys, and the entire flight was given brief details of what's happening fueling his emotions. His fear, trauma, concern, disappointment, and anger. When Rhys leaves, Cassian and Nesta got into it. Sure he was pissed about the mask anyone would be. I would be. I personally think it goes on beyond that. Far beyond it. Nesta’s life, once again, was put a risk and no one knew what Bryce wanted. Cassian’s worst fear when the portal was open, was Bryce taking Nesta and never seeing her again. All that came out in their fight.

As readers, we know Bryce's intentions are good. They as characters who haven't been given the best view of Bryce dont believe it. Yes, I do think there needs to be more trust in Nesta. Especially where Rhys is considered. Cassian, as her mate, blowing things out of proportion is logical cause all mates have done it at some point. But yeah he needs to trust her a bit more too. He trusts her more than Rhys does that's for sure.

To play devil's advocate, I could be wrong on Cassian and Nesta and their fight. Absolutely. Im not Sarah. But neither are you who are wishing he dies, and Nesta leaves him over a risk that was never hers to make alone when it involves the whole world of Midgard.

If you read this entire thing and disagree. That's cool. The unfollow and block buttons are right there.

[ofbreathandflame]

I've always, always, always, argued that SJM's racism is intentional. People undermine the conversation about racism in SJM by arguing that her racism is just a little, fickle mistake. I really aggressively need to push back against this point - I don't think SJM is an idiot blonde woman who does not recognize the racism in her writing. If anything the reason why I've persisted this long talking about the problems in her story is because I was initially taken aback by just how intentional the racism is.

For example, the Illyrians. We talk about how ambiguous they are, but I think its one of the biggest examples of intentionality in the texts. The Illyrians purposely operate in this realm of uncertainty. Whether or not they are actually men of color has always been a moot point - it's about the intentionality of creating this race of men that embody these very weird, intentional traits. SJM knew that she wanted these men to be dark, violent, and warrior-like, but she also don't want them to be specifically categorized as men of color because the story simply doesn't see these men of color as desirable (see: Tarquin, Helion, Thesan - think about how they are characterized). It's also why I've argued that the story purposely doesn't associate the Illyrians as lesser fae, even though for all intent and purposes they are. The Illyrians are simultaneously the best (leathers, weapons, fighting) and the worst (culture, misogyny, hyperviolent). The story is also very intentional about how it characterizes the Illyrians concerning Rhys. Emerie just so happens to be the only one of her entire friend group that's not drop-dead gorgeous; notice how Amren is also described similarly when she is introduced initially. Everyone in the IC is gorgeous, beautiful, the most beautiful, but Amren the only explicit person of color, is described as being just plain.

The point is that these are very intentional writing choices - eerily specific, in my opinion. SJM is very intentional about the ways in which she chooses to 'represent' people of color in her series (see: Nehemia, Sorcha, Nesryn, Nuala, Cerridwen, Emerie, Fury, etc). Even think about the ways in which characters like Alis border on minstrelsy in their depiction. It's not just the representation, its the way certain traits are aligned with certain people, specifically people of color. I remember I made a post on my last blog about the ways in which SJM has her characters of color operate in this permanent semi-disposable position. There is always a way in which their white (white-passing) peers are always explicitly better (see: Hunt/Baxian, Helion/Nesta, Tarquin/Feyre, Yrene/Aelin - I have words for this one too).

In short, I don't think SJM is ignorant - not in the way people think. I actually think she is much smarter than even her own fans give her credit for and its why both her own stories and booktok/tube/gram have honestly gotten worse. I feel like oft times the pro and anti sides are just observing the same things (literally - the arguments are identical), but the difference is the pro sides don't think its a big deal partially because they believe that SJM is a whimsy white women who just can't understand she's wrong. Its why the argue that SJM is 'working to get better' even though she's written, at this point, over fifteen books.

[a-court-of-lust-and-stardust]

*taps microphone* Is this thing on?

I'd like to give my perspective on something, from someone who started out in the ACOTAR fandom as part of the general audience, and who has a sister that is not apart of fandom but has read the books.

I read the series back in November 2023 in about 2 weeks. I stayed off of social media for a bit until I decided to make a Tumblr account.

After reading the books, I wasn't sure if the series was complete. It didn't feel complete. The first three books focused on Feyre. Nesta had an entire, almost 800 page book dedicated to her. For me, it was natural to assume, "Oh, Elain is next!" because logically, that was the only thing that made sense. Why would two sisters have books, but the third wouldn't? The series would seem incomplete.

Flash forward, and I find out that yes, there will be more to come in the series. However, at this point, I was still unaware that a bonus chapter for Silver Flames existed until a friend casually mentioned it. I asked where to find it and I began reading.

The first part of the bonus chapter confirmed what I already believed from reading the books. Azriel and Elain share mutual feelings. Truly, I didn't need confirmation in the bonus, because there were moments in the books that I already had picked up on. The bonus was just a nice surprise. Something fun.

But imagine my shock when I decided to insert myself into fandom space as a casual reader, and see folks who are 110% convinced that the next book's main character is going to be a secondary side character that was introduced about 40% of the way into the 4th book.

You don't have to imagine my shock, because I'll tell you. The moment I set foot into this fandom, I have been beyond confused. Bamboozled. Befuddled. And honestly, a bit gaslit.

Prior to this bonus chapter, I assumed everyone thought it was obvious and picked up on the pattern. The first sister gets a few books to explore her powers, heal, and fall in love. The second sister gets a book to do the exact same thing. The third sister would get a book...to do the exact. same. thing.

There was a week where I had zero idea that the bonus chapter existed. There are STILL people who have no idea that the bonus chapter exists, and may never end up reading it. These people are not on Tumblr, Reddit, Instagram, or Discord, discussing in depth theories and potential love squares. They are solely relying on canon text.

So, genuinely, what do you think their reactions are going to be, if the next book does not focus on Elain, the third sister, but rather a priestess, who was part of someone else's story, who was only just introduced in the very last book, who does not have any ties to the plot? Yes. They will be lost, too.

My sister, who is part of the general audience, and is not present in fandom spaces, has the same opinion. The idea of Azriel and Elain not ending up together doesn't make sense to her. Prior to showing her the bonus, she had already assumed Azriel and Elain would be the next pairing in the next series. Because she had only read the canon text. The canon text that is available to everyone. The bonus is not.

So, essentially, what I'm trying to say is, if the next book does not feature Elain as the main character, and Azriel as the main love interest, with sprinkles of Lucien here and there because he is still important because of the mating bond, then there will be a gigantic chunk of casual readers, who are not involved in fandom spaces, that will be utterly confused at the direction of the story. Because for people who are not on social media, they are only using the canon books. Their information is only coming from the canon books that are available for all readers. If information in bonus chapters is supposed to be important, then it would be featured in books for everyone to read.

[acotar-taylorsversion]

Thoughts and Takes As I Re-Read the ACOTAR Series

This is extremely long and I have been typing it for weeks now. These are just my thoughts and I am typing them as I go. If you read it, I hope you enjoy it and maybe we can agree on most things. I would really love to hear everyone else's thoughts, too! 🙂

I don't feel like people blame papa archeron nearly as much as they should. It should not have been any of the sisters' responsibility to do what Feyre did. And after reading Nesta's POV, I don't blame Nesta for being so cold and hateful towards her father.

Lucien annoyed me so much in ACOTAR so much so that it was hard to like him in ACOMAF but I really tried to like him and give him a chance when Sarah made him Elain's mate and I realized that he could have a big role in ACOWAR.

I believe Tamlin had his redemption arc in ACOWAR when he saved Feyre and Az when they were rescuing Elain and then again when he saved Rhys. But I don't think Sarah will explore his story and she might be keeping him alive right now so that he can die at the right time.

After what Tamlin did to her and then allying with Hybern, I don't blame Feyre for ruining his court. He deserved it.

I don't think Ianthe suffered enough and I think that Nesta or Elain should have been the ones to have killed her.

Elain and Az were obvious to me in ACOMAF, just like Nesta and Cassian were and I was truly truly shocked when sarah made Lucien Elain's mate. I believe that there is so much more to that night than we know about and we'll learn about it when we get to Elain & Az's POVs. I believe that the bloodbane in Az's blood was killing him and nullified any bond that could have been there even before Elain was turned. Az was shot with the arrow before they went up to the throne room and that is why Lucien showed signs of mate behavior once Elain showed up. I believe the cauldron was wrong.

That being said, I tried to give Lucien a chance in ACOWAR and he just gave me the ick when talking about Elain. It didn't feel right to hear him say that he wanted to "see if she was worth it." Like she should already be worth it. Don't hesitate. I just did not see it at all.

I think that LoA will be the one to kill Beron. Don't know why, but I just feel that she will lose it and run to Helion.

Sarah had every opportunity to set Elucien up and she didn't. I believe she set them up for failure from the get-go. She instead focused on Elain and Az. I could do an entirely separate post about Elain, Lucien, and Az.

I believe Mor and Eris are mates, especially after what was said in ACOSF. I believe that he knows that she prefers females and wanted to save her from a loveless, unsatisfying marriage. I do think that he handled it wrong. Like that whole situation could have been handled so much better.

I think the whole Mor, Az, and Cassian situation was extremely weird. And now that Cassian is with Nesta and Az could possibly be with Elain, maybe Mor can finally move on and be free and not hide anything anymore. I wish that Mor would have talked to Nesta in ACOSF and explained and apologized for everything. Maybe she'll sit both the sisters down and talk about it one day.

I think Amren and Varian are cute together, but I think Amren should have stayed dead. Sarah is notorious for killing and then unkilling her characters and I think that gets old. I believe that sarah brought her back as a way to keep the summer court involved with the night court and to have a "know it all" character.

I think that Feyre and Rhys have a true, soul mate, true love, fairytale mating bond and I think Nesta and Cassian have a more realistic one. Feyre and Rhys fell in love before the bond was accepted and Nesta and Cassian were just beginning to fall in love before the bond was accepted. Lust and attraction and the pull of the bond is what truly brought them together but they quickly fell in love with each other.

I hate all the hate that Nessian is getting. People who say that Nesta should get with Eris literally make me sick and I want to throw ACOSF at them. They obviously need a to read it again. People need to realize that Nesta was in the wrong in HOFAS and Rhys had every right to freak out like he did and Nesta needed to be yelled at for that. I don't blame Cassian for not stepping in. And people forget how sarcastic Nesta is and they actually take her seriously when she said that Rhys debated executing her. Like do yall really think Cassian and Feyre would allow that or that Rhys would do that to his brother and his mate?? Like come on now.

Speaking of Rhys, I don't think he was wrong for keeping the danger of feyre's pregnancy from her. As a mother of 3 myself, I would be terrified every single day if I knew that my pregnancy could end with the death of myself and/or my baby. Like I would not want to know. Pregnancy is stressful enough as it is, even with healthy ones. And this is why I don't think he was wrong for freaking out on Nesta. I mean, he almost lost his mate, his son, and his life like what, 6 months before that? Like I can't imagine how scared Rhys is every day knowing that he almost lost everything and then Nesta gave a STRANGER a MADE OBJECT from the trove and could have LOST IT to the ASTERI who could have come to their world and DESTROYED them all. GIVE RHYS A BREAK YOU GUYS!!!!! I love Nesta, love her to death, but she was wrong for that.

I have my thoughts on Gwyn. I think she's a lightsinger. I think that is what Az's shadows react to, just like Nesta reacts to her. I don't think her and Az are mates. I don't think she's attracted to Az at all. I think she wants to prove herself to him because he did see her on the most traumatic night of her life. I think she wants to prove to him and everyone around her that she is and can be strong. That's it. There is nothing more to her and Az other than trainer and trainee. I also think that Merrill is the one manipulating everything and everyone, including Gwyn who might not know that she's a lightsinger. I think Merrill is working with Koschei.

Even after all the books, I still believe that Elriel will happen. There's just too many canon moments for me to ignore to see the possibility of Elucien. I only say elucien because gwynriel isn't a canon couple. They are not canon at all. The only thing that elucien has going for them is their bond.

I think Lucien will reject the bond for Elain. Lucien isn't a bad guy. I don't think he'll fight for Elain when he knows that she does not want him or their bond. He won't let Elain become his mother. I think he will find happiness with Vassa and they will be like Elide and Lorcan.

I believe people who support elucien only care about Lucien. I mean, how could you think that Elain wants to be with him after reading the books?

Based on the story of Koschei, it's not crazy to assume it will be 3 sisters and 3 brothers. Sarah is a very predictable writer and this is what most of the fandom has expected since ACOMAF and Koschei being the last big bad confirms that. Especially when you add in Vassa and Lucien into the mix. Just read the story of Koschei and tell me I'm wrong.

I believe that Az is experiencing the effects of a mating bond with Elain. He acts more like her mate than Lucien does and there's canon proof of this.

I believe the only reason Rhys stopped Az and Elain that night was because 1. he was convinced he would die with Feyre when she gave birth and didn't want his court to be in this war with the autumn court and 2. he is a political figure and he is using elain's bond as leverage with lucien. I believe that if Elain expresses to him how she wants to reject the bond, he would support it and accept Elain and Az.

I hate how everyone focuses on Gwyn and forgets about Emerie. I don't understand why people think Gwyn would be involved with the Illyrians. She is not Ilyrian and even though she finished the blood rite, she has said she does not want that illyrian warrior title. After what she went through during the rite, I don't see her being involved with them in any way. I do believe we will hear about Emerie doing something more like that. She could be an inspiration to Ilyrian females. Speaking of the Valkyries, I don't think they should have won the blood rite. It was very unbelievable. It would have been more believable if they had hid the entire time and waited for Cassian to come find them when the week was over.

Speaking Gwyn again, I think most of her fans overhype her too much. I like Gwyn and I'm glad that Nesta has her as a friend because she needed that. But I don't think we'll ever get her POV. I mean, we heard her story. We know what happened to her and we know pretty much everything about her. We know that she doesn't want that warrior title and she went back to the library not even sure about going to Nesta's mating ceremony. I think her fans forget this. I think they see her as a self insert character. I think they over sexualize her way too much. I'm not saying that SA survivors can't have a sex life so don't come at me. I just don't think she's going to want to be tied up with ribbons while Az holds her down and "ravages" her. The same male who seen what she went through that night. That just makes me uncomfortable. I think Gwyn would be embarrassed by the majority of her fans.

I will another post about that bonus chapter because there is so much to discuss.

I hate the amount of hate Elain gets and the side of the fandom that hates her does not deserve her. There is so much to learn about her and her powers and what goes on in her mind and I can't wait for her book.

I also think that papa archeron unknowingly traded Elain and/or Feyre and Nesta in his deal with Koschei for Vassa's temporary release.

I don't understand how people could hate feysand or any other members of the inner circle. In my opinion, if you hate them then why are you reading the series?? Why are you still here?

I don't think that sarah will make Nesta or Elain an actual queen or high lady. I think that Rhys and Feyre will always be more powerful than them and I think they will be High King and High Queen when the series is over. I can't see sarah making the sisters having the same amount of power or say as much as Feyre. She has always been above them. That has been obvious since the beginning because she's always protected them and taken care of them.

If you guys remember my other posts, then you will know my thoughts on how I think the rest of the series will go. Like elriel, vassien, koschei, the queens, the prison, the dusk court, the trove, all that. Elain and Nesta are the keys and Vassa should be the one to destroy Koschei. Rhys and Feyre will be High King and High Queen with nessian and elriel at their sides and everyone lives happily ever after.

What do you guys think?

[coeurdedior]

It’s always « poor Lulu » and never « poor Elain ».

Elain who had a mother who didn’t care about her. A mother who only cared about Elain’s beauty and what that beauty could bring her. A mother who didn’t believe in her. A mother who said she had no ambition, and that she only cared about her gardens. A mother who wanted Elain to have an advantageous marriage.

Elain who saw her father’s death. ( and maybe she feels guilty for his death for not arriving sooner. The fact she said nothing could have saved him. Did she have to make a choice between saving Nesta and Cassian or her father ? A life for a life. We don't know if changing the future can have consequences. )

Elain who saw both of her sisters almost die in front of her.

Elain who has been kidnapped two times. (And we don’t know her thoughts about it.)

Elain who was thrown in the cauldron. (Feyre literally said that Elain’s screams broke her heart and Nesta said she felt violated ») Also, the fact Elain was thrown the first one, she didn’t know if she would survive. She had to deal with pain, stress, fear and also, the humiliation when almost all of the men in the room laughed at her. Also, the fact she was almost naked in front of them.

Elain who had her heart broken by Graysen. He rejected her because she is a fae now. He didn’t accept her as she was. And during this time, she had to learn to love a body that people made her hate (people seems to forgot but for Nesta and Elain, Faes weren’t good people. They learned to fear and hate them.) All the sisters had to deal with this transition. Be the thing they learned to hate. They were humans and now they are faes. They saw their lives changed overnight.

Elain who had to deal with her new power. She was lost between reality and dreams. She saw and heard things that no one else saw and heard. She must have also thought she was crazy or something was wrong with her. Until Azriel told her she was a seer. She blinked and woke up. (And it makes me laugh when people said that she needed sunlight or see the gardens when it is written in the book that « she woke up »when Azriel told her she was a seer. You can’t make an interpretation when it’s literally written).

I also add that Elain was depressed in the beginning of ACOWAR. She wasn’t eating, she didn’t speak, she was staying in her bedroom.

And finally, Elain who had to deal with a mate while she is interested in someone else. A mate who reminder her of her trauma. A mate who reminds her the worst day of her life probably. (It’s also why I prefer Elriel than Elucien or even Gwynriel. The first meeting between two characters is very important to me, and the circumstances in which Gwynriel and Elucien met are just too sad. Elain and Gwyn look at them and they remember the worst day of their life, it’s not very romantic to me).

So, the lack of compassion for Elain is so incomprehensible. She’s literally the definition of suffer in silence.

And, I’am tired of seeing comment like « Lucien deserves to be happy ». They act like Lucien carried all the misery of the world on his shoulders.

All the characters suffered.

[achaotichuman]

Acotar Rant

Nesta is not mean to Feyre unprovoked. There is always some outside factor, or direct provoking that pushed her to her limits.

Nesta is not being mean to Feyre because that's just who she is. She is mad at the situation she is forced into, and often times sick of the IC's bullshit and they're constant need to harass her.

Feyre refused to respect Nesta's space after she had been through a highly traumatic experience and, along with the IC, villainized her for not getting over her trauma in a year and going to live with her along with her mate who hates her guts and has from the very start.

Feyre wanted Rhysand to mind-rape Nesta and Elain to make them allow the IC to turn their home into their meeting place, and the only reason it never happened was that Feyre 'didn't want to suggest it' but it doesn't change the fact that was a genuine thing she considered.

Feyre allows and even believes it is fully acceptable for Rhysand to continually disrespect and undermine Nesta. Feyre thinks it's acceptable for Cassian to constantly harass Nesta.

Feyre gave away Nesta and Elain to Ianthe which allowed for them to be kidnapped, assaulted and turned Fae. Nesta is allowed to resent her for that.

Feyre doesn't get the high ground in this situation. Back in the cottage Feyre was putting in the hard work, she kept them alive and fed, she was the one making money for them, no one denies that ever.

Nesta also braved the Faery world and tried to rescue Feyre from Prythian in book one and was only stopped by the The Wall. Nesta fought for humans in the War and saved Cassian's ass multiple times.

Feyre can be hurt, but she does not have the authority to try and convince Nesta to live with her and her mate (who I will repeat HATES HER) and then act annoyed when Nesta notices she didn't paint her in her family portrait, whilst she included their neglectful father who did nothing for them for years either. Especially when their father let Tamlin take her with no pushback and even said for Feyre to not to come back.

Nesta only snaps when she is pushed to her limits which Feyre does intentionally multiple times throughout the books. In that start of book one they are constantly snapping at each other.

Feyre and the IC push and prod at Nesta and then get upset when she snaps at them. Thats what happened all throughout the series.

Rhysand stans like to act as though Nesta was a big bad bully picking on Feyre, when in reality, the IC went from actively ignoring and occasionally harassing her, to locking her up with a man she has explicitly stated she does not like or trust.

But yeah sure, Feyre is the victim.

"Oh but Nesta spent their money" Yeah yeah yeah Rhysand's poor blood money that he has a whole hoard of. How terrible. Can you tell I don't give two shits?

Velaris has slums, or places like slums (which even with that wording does not make it ANY better) along with pleasure halls where women have to resort to selling their body. Neither Rhysand nor Feyre get to say shit about Nesta spending their money when their so called best city in their massive lands has families in poverty.

Not even mentioning the Illyrian women and children they ignore and actively exploit. Along with the Hewn City women that they also ignore and torment.

Feyre is not some poor baby being forced to put on a smile because Nesta is being oh so mean to her. She actively contributes to hurting and provoking her.

Stop acting as though Feyre cannot make mistakes, do bad things, or make horrible decisions. You're making her into a 2-dimensional character with no complexity.

[acourtofthought]

Genuine question, but why do you want Elucien together if they aren’t in love? They aren’t currently attracted to each other right now. They can’t even be in the same room.

Is it just the potential? Or promise of the mating bond or something?

Because I shipped Elucien too when they were declared mates. But by ACOFAS, I didn’t understand why suddenly SJM decided to have them not even interact. If they ever have a conversation I might jump back over to elucien, but so far-there’s nothing between them.

And we know there can be mates that aren’t good romantic pairings. Like Rhys’s parents. All signs are currently pointing to the fact that Elucien is also one of the incompatible pairs.

Idk I just don’t understand why I should keep rooting for them if there hasn’t been any development on the page? Am I missing something??

Genuine question: Why would I want to read a love story that starts with the couple already being in love? Were Claire and Jamie from Outlander in love at the start or was she in love with and married to another man? Where she married Jamie and STILL wasn't in love with him? Were Daphne and Simon in love at the start of Bridgerton? Was he not FORCED to marry her even when he didn't want to ever marry or have children? Were Elizabeth and Darcy infatuated with one another at the start of their book? You have no canon evidence that Elain isn't attracted to Lucien. The only canon evidence we have of anything is that Elain didn't want a male or a mate. Just like Nesta didn't want a mate in her book. But guess what? Those things change. Those are just hurdles for a character to overcome. By the end of her book Nesta proudly called Cassian her mate but she got into a fight with him over it at first. Yes Elain "shrinks back" from Lucien but why are you defaulting to one possible answer "she's not attracted to him"? When you look at SJMs style of writing, isn't it more likely that Elain withdraws from Lucien because he sees her too clearly and that scares her? When Feyre tells us that Elain has even Az beat for secret keeping, isn't it possible that Lucien is the one person who can see through the secrets Elain hides and it's intimidating? Because he might see that she's not as fine and content as she'd have the others believe? Something she wants them to keep believing as she's possibly worried about disappointing them? (Rhys's words). You're right, there are couples who might not be right for one another, evidenced by the example you provided with Rhys's parents. Rhys's father was cold and vicious. Does that sound like Lucien? Rhys's father immediately stole Rhys's mother away the second the bond snapped and married her that night. Does that sound like what Lucien did with Elain? Rhys's mother pleaded with his father to ban wing clipping but he refused. Has Elain asked anything of Lucien that he was unwilling to give her? I like Elucien because neither has to be anyone different if they end up together. Elain doesn't have to struggle with cruelty bothering her as she would if she ended up with a torturer. She doesn't have to hide in the shadows as she would if she ended up with Az. She would get to enjoy balls and party and socializing in a way she wouldn't if her partner was Az who prefers his alone time. She'd get to share her love of nature with someone who the author also confirms is happiest in nature. I like the thought of Elucien because it's so clearly written on the wall that they are right for one another though it's normal that Elain isn't ready to face that yet as she's still processing trauma and figuring out who she is as a fae female. Or maybe she does realize it and it's what scares her, she already suffered rejection and a broken heart from Graysen, I don't imagine she's prepared to run into someone else's arms who has the power to hurt her. My guess is SJM hasn't had them interact because the second Elain and Lucien have a real conversation, it's over for both of them. Their hearts will be gone, flying into the palms of the other. It's more exciting to read about all that in their own POVs rather than someone else's. You don't have to root for anyone you don't like. Hell, Elucien could be endgame and you still don't need to root for them. But I grow a little tired of people acting clueless as to why Elucien's still love the idea of them together and why it's really not a problem that they aren't talking right now.

[thedomesticanthropologist]

Not to go off about ACOTAR series again but are people just straight up forgetting the entire first book when they rant about how "Bad" Tamlin is ? Am I insane here or did the author character assassinate him after book 1 and everyone just agreed to pretend that Feyre didn't have a 180 character change, forget all the things she saw/felt/believed in, and that she didn't suddenly resent him for character traits and actions that she already UNDERSTOOD completely and even sympathized with/empathized with previously?

I am... so confused. I'm reading book 1 over again and I don't even recognize the character of Feyre in comparison to who she is later, and Tamlins actions and reactions in book 1 make loads of sense, and then suddenly out of nowhere it's like the author just changed her mind and is asking us to pretend book 1 didn't happen... or... like damn, what am I missing?

When she returns to the Spring Court to find Tamlin taken and Alis explains everything to her, this version of Feyre is sympathetic and fully informed. And then suddenly later on she's just... not? And all Tamlins actions get warped in her perspective??? And then the author just changes how he does things going forward even though it's against established character traits???

[xstarlightsupremex]

It's so frustrating how the idea of "redemption" and "redemption arcs" has become so commonplace now. I can't even pinpoint where the concept and the true weight of its meaning to a story got messed up, but here we are dealing with the aftermath.

Nesta is flawed. But not flawed enough to need a redemption arc. If that was the case, we might as well be handing out redemption arcs to all flawed characters in this book. Maybe starting with Rhysand for his centuries of terror lol.

In the case of Nesta Archeron, she doesn't need a redemption arc and ACOSF isn't her redemption story. Who is she being redeemed to anyway? It's so silly how there are still people who believe this. Aside from her not even being the villain in the story. It's Nesta who is consistently talked negatively about in this series. There seems to be this adamant group of people who greatly believes she needs to atone for her "crimes."

When really her "crimes" are not assimilating the IC, "letting" Feyre hunt, and treating Feyre poorly when she was younger. That's literally it. She isn't responsible for the death of millions. Hasn't betrayed anyone. Hasn't turned over to the dark side. Hasn't cursed anyone (who didn't deserve it - lmao shout out to the King of Hybern). Hasn't schemed/lied/manipulated at the expense of someone else. She's not power-hungry, give her a good book and she's set for life. Nesta isn't vengeful, despite Amren's beliefs otherwise, never even thought of creating a death trove to spite the IC (though they would have deserved it). She isn't even selfish considering how she is willing to die for the people she cares about. So...

To be fair, there are things she needs to answer for 100%. And a great portion of the book was Nesta accepting her past and learning to forgive herself to move forward. But I don't agree with the belief that this sums up into "redeeming herself."

Mostly because it frames Nesta as the sole offender in the series when time and time again, we see that isn't the case. I do not put all the blame on Nesta, and its clear that the narrative doesn't either:

Nesta nodded slowly. Perhaps it wasn’t just her and Feyre, then. Perhaps all sisters had difficulties, fights, chasms between them. She wasn’t perfect, but … neither was Feyre. They had both made mistakes. And both had long, long lives ahead of them. What had occurred in the past did not have to dictate the future.

With the understanding that Feyre isn't perfect either and also has made mistakes...should we anticipate a redemption arc for her too? When it comes to the IC, they aren't innocents either. This acknowledgement, again, doesn't absolve Nesta of her own actions. But I'm not interested in villainizing her either.

Whatever healing Nesta got from the HOW, was something she found herself. Nesta wasn't sent there with the intent to give her purpose in life. She was sent to the HOW with the hopes of putting distance between her and her vices. Her work at the library was meant to keep her from isolation (as she was prone to do). And the distance did help. But it doesn't take away what was lost and how she was treated at the end. Choice is something Nesta greatly desires in life. Yet throughout the book, her choices were repeatedly stripped away (But I digress, this is a whole separate conversation).

Interestingly enough, the IC with all their talk of helping Nesta actually seemed more capable of putting her in harms way than Nesta herself. Considering how she was SA multiple times, faced death multiple times, and was forced to confront her trauma...all at their behest. Seems counterproductive to their initial goals (But again, I digress).

Everything else happened because Nesta cultivated it on her own. Nobody is stripping that away from Nesta. I'm just not giving the IC and Feyre the credit. She led her healing journey despite the mistreatment she faced from the IC. She made the house because she needed to make the environment she was imprisoned in less suffocating. She found happiness because she worked for it and molded her journey with the support of the people who gave her the love and kindness to see herself through. Nesta's circle is small, and not everyone makes the cut.

A need for redemption or a redemption arc implies that the person in question is not a good person. But Nesta, despite her flaws, is good. More than she was willing to believe. And more than this fandom is willing to admit. Nobody needs a redemption arc for being human.

[theshadowsingersraven]

It's so weird to me that people get bent out of shape at their self-created premise of Eluciens shipping while "ignoring Elain's feelings" about Lucien.

Elain is a fictional character. Her feelings are designated by SJM in the canon text, and whoever writes for her in fanon and fanfiction. Elain’s feelings are not autonomous. They are designed by the author writing her for whatever medium or purpose, or the fanartist creating art of her.

When I write Elain with Lucien, I don't write her as miserable and trapped. And I don't think most Elucien writers do that, either.

I will write her hesitant, potentially, depending on the point in which their relationship has developed. Or guarded or unsure of how she feels. You know, like Nesta and Feyre were with their mates, too, initially.

But the people who ship and write and create content for Elucien don't do so as a way to be "cruel" or "punishing" or "unconcerned". We do it because we see potential that others don't. We can imagine how their conversations could go, how their dynamics could change, what events could trigger a change in how they view each other. And we show that in the artistic medium we're most drawn to.

These are the ideas I toss around for my Elucien writing:

Maybe Elain meets Jurian and Vassa.

Maybe she goes to Spring.

Maybe Lucien sees a more powerful part of her and is impressed.

It's literally the base foundation of creativity. Imagining characters in scenarios you want to see. And there's nothing wrong with that in the slightest. How else do you think we get any books or TV shows? Any media, really?

It just reads as a very overly-moralistic, juvenile, and non-creative line of thinking to me.

"Why are you ignoring Elain's feelings?"

I'm not. I'm changing them and designating where I believe they will go based on my own creativity and desire to grow her arc and character. I'm changing her feelings based on what I want. Which, I actually love to break it to you, is exactly what SJM does, too.

Not everyone is going to be a writer. Not everyone is going to be a creative person. I understand that. But what people in this fandom don't understand is that it's an actual process with time and effort, and there's nothing to get upset or worked up over.

If you do get upset, respectfully, that's a you problem. You are not Elain. No one is pushing you towards a guy you don't feel any particular way about as if you're in high school. No one is making you do or consume anything. You are fine.

Elucien can not hurt you.

You're going to have to live with basic fandom creativity, and if you can't handle that, maybe fandom spaces aren't for you.

[justthinkinboutbooks]

How Lucien and Azriel think about Elain

Firstly, this is not Lucien hate in the slightest. I love him and of course I want him to have his HEA, I just don't think should be with Elain.

We've gotten both characters' POVs as they interact with Elain and the difference, I believe, is significant.

Lucien and Azriel actually have a lot of similarities as characters. They both:

Suffered abuse from their families

Have a soft spot for their mothers

Have visible scars (unusual with fae)

Have trouble finding a sense of belonging

Don't like where they're originally from

Are down bad for Elain (however, Lucien's feelings are only because of the mating bond)

It has to be intentional to have these parallels between Elain's two love interests and that's why the way these two think about her is so important.

When Feyre is in Lucien's mind as he talks to her, we get this:

"But there she was. His mate. She was nothing like Jesminda. Jesminda had been all laughter and mischief, to wild and free to be contained by the country life she'd been born into. She had teased him, taunted him--seduced him so thoroughly that he hadn't wanted anyone but her. She'd seen him not as a High Lord's seventh son, but as a male. Had loved him without question, without hesitation. She had chosen him. Elain had been...thrown at him."

Now, in Azriel's POV, we get this:

"Footsteps padded from under the stair archway, and there she was. The faelights gilded Elain's unbound hair, making her glow like the sun at dawn. She halted her breath catching in her throat."

Lucien saw Elain and immediately thought of the previous woman he'd loved. Azriel saw her and that's it. He only saw her. Not one thought or mention of Mor, the woman he'd loved for 500 years.

I want better for Elain than to be with someone who compares her to someone else. Someone who doesn't consider her to be thrown at him.

It's not the basis for a healthy relationship.

She should also be with someone she has the hots for. She was ready to get down with Azriel right then and there, but she's never given Lucien more than a second glance.

Let my girl get dirty with someone who is into her for her and not someone whose dirty thoughts are the result of a bond neither of them has control over.

[freyjas-musings]

"Elegant, feminine, and utterly wild. Warm and steadfast—unbreakable, his queen.

Sarah J. Maas, Queen of Shadows

The author literally writes stories about characters not needing to fit into any specific box yet somehow some people in this fandom keep building the narrative that

Being a trained warrior automatically implies the character is not soft or feminine? Please spare us the BS .... Nesta is soft and feminine , Feyre is soft and Feminine, Gwyn most certainly is Elegant , graceful and feminine..... them being warriors doesn't exempt them from being elegant or soft or feminine 🙄.

Being a SA survivor doesn't automatically confine you to specific rules.... whether it's sexual preferences , whether to want to be in a relationship, the choice of clothes , choice of career .... stop reducing characters to their trauma , when the author literally writes stories of females who don't let their trauma define them. I am not going dignify the lunatic discourse around consent to be shipped with a counter... its stupid at an elemental level.

That a male character is not allowed a trauma response that's unsavoury. Why? We can all empathise with Nesta acting out or Feyre withdrawing but Azriel we have conveniently reduced to a fuck boy ? The guy has 500 years of unresolved trauma and doesn't understand relationships... all he wants is to be loved and accepted for who he is ... he was tortured and locked away .... what does it make you when you disregard that? HOFAS clearly shows there is so much more to Az that's endearing and adorable.... yet people are hell bent on only letting him be a fuck boy? Same with Lucien..... he is an abuse victim and yes he does make a mistake with Feyre but that could be result of his trauma too ... yet that guy deserves to die alone , can't be trusted and God knows what else ? What are you guys even talking about ... do you even understand how characters are written?

Its almost sad that we belong to a fandom of an author who literally writes stories and characters that have always defied the odds and have refused to be put in set boxes only to fight people who do just that with her characters.

Guess what ..... Aelin was both a queen and an assassin.... Nesta was an absolute queen owning her sexuality while also preferring modest clothing without revealing much skin.... Azriel is both a torturer and someone who believes there is salvation in the mothers embrace .... Gwyn can be whoever she wants and we can all hope to see her however the hell we want without needing to put her in a box only because she is a survivor.

[a-court-of-lust-and-stardust]

I don't usually judge people for the way they perceive a story. With that being said, it genuinely confuses me that there are some people who have:

Read the bits and pieces of Azriel's tragic background we've been provided

Read the way he was pining for Mor for 500 years without ever approaching her or speaking his feelings

Read about the way he respects women

Read about the way he is so painfully insecure

Read about the gentleness in which he treats Elain

Read about the way he has never hesitated to think of, include, and protect Elain

Read the ACOSF bonus chapter that shows how utterly tormented he is by his feelings that extend beyond just lust.....

And somehow have come to the conclusion that Azriel is an entitled male for questioning something that Feyre, the damn High Lady, questioned herself. That he believes he is owed Elain's affections, when he was simply expressing his confusion. Entitled. Owed. I could think of 20 different words to describe him, and those two would never, ever make the list.

I don't even think it's a matter of opinion. I genuinely think some folks have completely and utterly mischaracterized or misunderstood his character, whether accidentally or purposely. We don't have his full story, but we've been given enough information to understand part of who Azriel is at his core. He is anything but entitled.