#Ml season 4 finale

[iwasbored777]

The top tier moments from s4 finale is that Adrienette being affected by Risk is them getting married while Ladynoir being affected by Risk is them divorcing.

Which makes sense, Ladynoir had a lot of angst building up and it needed to burst one day while Adrienette spent the season falling more and more in love and the fact that it's the same two freakin people I'm talking about is what makes it top tier.

[muggle-born-princess]

If Lila smiled sadistically while Nathalie was dying while Chloé looked horrified and afraid that Hawk Moth got all the miraculouses, then you can no longer tell me the latter is irredeemable.

[felixgothdevanily]

I think I'm on to something here

[geekgirles]

Hi .. I saw your post and I wanted to point it out;

We saw the exact same pictures in The collector (201)

(Background)

Fu showed an other page about an other aicent peacoc user's sentimonsters in Feast (315)

And we saw a page about it in Truth (401)

🦚🦚🦚

Sorry, I just like to be correct😅

Yes, I am aware of that. But as you very well pointed out, the only instance we were shown the, say, "main" page on the peacock miraculous up until Strike Back was in Collector, and it was the size of a thumbnail. Not enough to distinguish many features.

(by the way, by main I mean this)

In fact, if this ^^^ page is the cover/ beginning of each "chapter", then the other pages on the peacock we've seen are the real content of the chapter. But, again, not the cover.

(On a side note, if my speculations are right, it's a bit frustrating that after all this time knowing of the grimoire, we've only seen this little of it. But that's an issue for another day).

What I meant to say with my post is that Strike Back is the very first time we've seen the cover for the peacock miraculous up close.

Although I'll admit I could've explained myself better. Now, I'm not mad or offended or anything, mainly because I know the feeling of liking to be correct and precise all too well myself, but do be careful. People might take offence to you correcting them and end up thinking of you as impertinent.

Just be careful, okay?

Hope my answer explained things better. Have a nice day!

[pippipdiddlydoodles]

i'm never getting over the s4 finale

[tizzymcwizzy]

AREN'T YOU HAPPY? AREN'T YOU GLAD? AREN'T YOU EXCITED THAT WE'RE FINALLY FREE!?

CAN'T YOU SEE THAT I DID THIS ALL FOR YOU?

[bluebelledmoon]

adrien and marinette! (with a lil chat :D)

[marinetteplztakeabreak]

Whenever the truth about Recreation TM comes to light, i dont think Adrien’s going to be mad at Marinette for lying to him????? He’ll probably be hurt and frustrated and dealing with a lot, but I think, based on how he’s acted before, he would probably be like, “please don’t lie to me like this again, but i understand why you did it, that is such a heavy burden to carry on your own and i respect that you were trying so hard to protect me and you shouldn’t have had to do that” because its *Marinette* and he KNOWS she’ll listen when he says this and that she does care about his opinions and autonomy and whatnot and he knows theyll recover and itll be okay in the end. And he also knows about keeping secrets from *her* because he was afraid theyd hurt her. He knows how she’s feeling and trusts her to Learn.

HOWEVER. I think *Chat Noir* is going to be just,,, absolutely pissed when he finds out that Ladybug lied to him after ALL of that,,, that she decided to just Carry The Burden Of The World all on her own and suffer and not share her moral struggles and dilemnas with him when he is literally supposed to be the heart of the team,,, when he has spent SO LONG fighting to make her understand that she doesnt have to be alone and she can and should be open with him,,, after literally the Entire plot of season 4 occurred ,,, and she turned around and was like “yeah no one else should have to worry about this im just going to Keep My Secrets forever.”

And i am looking forward to it IMMENSELY . Like. My GOSH can you IMAGINE the potential fight. Think of the new situations for emotionally charged identity reveal fics this opens up. Imagine him finding out his dad was hawkmoth and hes like “yeah okay that checks” and is hung up on ladybug lying to him because theyre supposed to be best friends. And then shes marinette and he’s like. Oh. And then they fight and cry and then maybe kiss idk . Anyway im actually thriving with the finale at this point im having the time of ever

[theerurishipper]

Ladynoir and (In)Equality

For me personally, the most important thing in any relationship is that both partners are equals in that dynamic. I think that's a reasonable expectation to have. And Ladynoir did fulfill that requirement for me in the first 3 seasons. Even though Ladybug did most of the leadership stuff by making the plans and directing Chat Noir on what to do, it was understood that this was a mutual agreement. They both understood what they were good at, and their dynamic evolved accordingly. Chat Noir was content to follow her lead and Ladybug was content to make the plans and direct Chat Noir.

Season 2 saw the introduction of the inequality that shattered this balanced dynamic between the two, and quite frankly the later seasons only made it worse. It started in Syren, as we all know, where Chat Noir first expressed his displeasure at being left out of the loop when Ladybug was privy to important information that was being kept from him. Of course, Master Fu arrived to barely smooth things over before the issue was dropped for the season and never brought up again. Their dynamic remained as it was, but the cracks began to form here.

The introduction of Ladybug being the Guardian in Season 4 changed this established dynamic, obviously, and Ladybug began to give the Miraculous out to other holders. Keeping Chat Noir out of the loop began to become her MO, and she effectively replaced him with Rena Furtive in all but name. The central conflict of the season was the cracks forming in their relationship because of her new responsibilities and her secret keeping. And the resolution to this, as stated in Kuro Neko and Risk, is that even if he's no longer her partner, she still likes him best.

Now, the previous Ladynoir dynamic was one of equality, where they knew their roles and acted upon them. They were equals, and Ladybug's leadership in their pair was an informal one, one that was mutually agreed upon by them. The introduction of the Guardian role for Ladybug changes this from a mutually agreed upon dynamic to one where Ladybug is, for all intents and purposes, his boss. She is officially his leader, in the sense that if she so wished, he would be obliged to hand his Miraculous over to her. In the sense that she would be well within her rights to replace him if she so desired (which she does do). She is his superior, and he is no more important than the other temporary holders, with the sole exception that he holds his Miraculous permanently (which has now been exacerbated by the fact that all of them are permanent holders now).

Chat Noir received a demotion for no fault of his own, which he did not want, and someone else was promoted to replace him in the position he once occupied. Rena Furtive is Ladybug's special partner. Chat Noir is not Rena Furtive's equal, and he is definitely not Ladybug's equal.

This is not about a woman making more money than a man. She isn't just more successful than him, and this isn't about him being insecure about her being better than him. The problem is that Ladybug is Chat Noir's direct superior, and she has power over him. She has the power to call him when she needs him, and if not him, she'll get someone else. She has the resources to figure out his identity without him being none the wiser. She has the power to replace him if she wishes. Far be it from him to allow her to lead of his own accord, now he is obliged to follow her orders. She has the power to control what he knows and how he acts, and she has the power to keep vital information from him.

None of this is inherently "bad." But when you look at it from the context of them being on a path to a romantic relationship with each other, that's where the problems begin. Two people in a relationship should not have a dynamic where one has so much power over the other. Ladybug has so much power that she is able to slide a third teammate into their partnership and slowly push him away from his role at her side. She, quite unfortunately, can and has abused his trust because she had the resources to do so. The only opportunity he had in Season 4 to make his own choices that were not dictated by Ladybug's rules was when he quit. The final takeaway from this Ladynoir conflict is that Chat Noir is her favorite subordinate now (because Rena Furtive has replaced him), and just because they aren't equals anymore doesn't mean she doesn't want him around.

And, no, this was not corrected in Season 5. Season 5 was a return to their original dynamic, not because Ladybug and Chat Noir worked around this new shift in their relationship to find a way to overcome this new power imbalance. It's because Ladybug's power was forcibly taken away from her by a third party, and the only reason Chat Noir is her special partner again is because there is no one else left. But the end of Season 5 sees everyone come back, as permanent holders no less, and Chat Noir is once again demoted to his role as "just another holder like any other."

With the establishment of the Ladybug and the Black Cat Miraculous as two halves of a duo, equals in power, you'd expect them to be, well, equals. Me being upset about the inequality of these characters isn't with regards to screentime, or my wish for Adrien to be the main character or anything. My wish is for Adrien to be a character of his own. My wish is for the show to stop promoting such unhealthy dynamics as cute and fine. If they had simply made Adrien's role out to be the love interest, if they had just literally made him Ken who is content with just being Barbie's trophy boyfriend from the very beginning, if that was all his role has ever been and was meant to be from the start, I wouldn't be complaining so much. But the one they reduced into the role of Marinette's prize, the one over whom she has so much power, is the abuse victim whose arc is about self-actualization. And it paints a very disturbing picture. That far be it from Chat Noir to expect any kind of equal treatment from Ladybug, he's going to have put aside any discomforts or issues he has with their relationship to settle for being her favorite by virtue of nostalgia.

And it's just... bad, on a narrative level. Despite its ambitious introduction of so many plot points, the focus of this show has always been its romance. The main narrative goal of the series is for Ladybug and Chat Noir to get together. So, when your narrative hinges on these two characters getting together, and you decide to introduce such a power dynamic into the mix, saying "I still like you," isn't the fix that it's cracked up to be. If they are supposed to be the relationship around which the show is built, Chat Noir should be Ladybug's special partner, he should be her equal and not just another holder whom she likes better than everyone else. Ladynoir's relationship is directly tied to their partnership, and their dynamic as partners is the basis for any future romantic relationship between them. Introducing such an inequality between them in their partnership does affect their ability to be able to get together, and not in a good way.

This isn't a bad plot point. I like Ladybug being the Guardian, I like that they didn't just brush off the fact that there would be some changes in their dynamic. What I dislike is the way it was resolved, with Ladybug essentially saying that they would never be equals but she still likes him. A power imbalance does not a healthy relationship make. Ladynoir do not have a relationship where they are both completely aware of everything they should know. Chat Noir really cannot do anything in their dynamic, because Ladybug has all the control over everything. It's Ladybug controlling this information and Chat Noir accepting that he'll never be treated the way he wants to be treated, because he's been conditioned to believe his feelings don't matter. And she never did end up correcting this, and the conflict as it is ended with him forgiving her for everything even though she never apologized, and accepting that this is how it's going to be.

And it's not good. This isn't the Ladynoir I signed up for, honestly. I signed up for the Ladybug who accepted Chat Noir unconditionally and the Chat Noir who supported Ladybug through everything. I did not sign up for Ladybug trying to pull a Gabe and Chat Noir only being her emotional support who suppresses his own needs for her. The Ladynoir conflict and its less than satisfying resolution caused irreparable damage to the Ladynoir dynamic (it's irreparable because the writers don't see a problem with it and so they'll never fix it), and this has only continued into Season 5, which said "why fix it when I can make it worse."

[gale-gentlepenguin]

Okay but Does YOUR show have a Catboy that has every reason to turn his back on his partner for all of the stuff she did while being forced to handle new responsibilities and not only stays, but wipes her tears and tells her that she isn’t alone and that she didn’t fail followed by a hug so warm and full of forgiveness and compassion that it could melt even the coldest of hearts?

[adrinoir]

This isn’t about Emilie anymore

Hey, besties. It’s been a while, no thanks to Miraculous being on a hiatus. But, I think it’s time to talk about one of the most god awful villains and fathers ever - Gabriel Agreste, and what his true intentions are.

Gabriel consistently claims he’s trying to get the ladybug and black cat miraculous so he can have life restart itself and make his wish to get Emilie back. But, based on his actions alone, it really doesn’t seem that’s so much the case anymore.

How he treats Adrien speaks volumes

First things first, Gabriel treats his own son like garbage. Adrien is the one tie he has to his wife - he’s his son, for fucks sake. Adrien lives with him and truly loves him. On numerous occasions, he even compares Adrien to his mom - it’s clear they’re a lot alike. But does he actually spend time with his son? No. Not at all.

Speaking of the comparisons to Emilie, Gabriel’s comparisons are often not positive ones, as if Adrien gets a lot of negative traits from his wife. If Emilie has a number of negative personality traits, does he really care about her to the extent he claims? Or does he just like having a pretty wife as eye candy or for some…well, you know.

Anyhow, he says to Adrien in the what if episodes “I’m doing this for her - for us.” But, if he was actually doing it for both of them, he’d actually make an effort to spend quality time with Adrien and show he cares about him. It’s very obvious Adrien is also grieving a lot over Emilie, but Gabriel isn’t trying at all to comfort him.

He knows Adrien loves Emilie and is grieving over her too. Wouldn’t Emilie want him to give Adrien the attention and care he deserves? If she didn’t, that means my analysis is trash and she’s just as manipulative as Gabriel. Sadly, we do see in Wishmaker that she just might be manipulative based on Adrien’s lifelong “dreams” being whatever it is his parents want him to be. But, it’s hard to judge right now how she was as a person and parent.

Adrien is shown to favor Emilie over Gabriel, whether it’s because they just because they had a closer bond or because Gabriel has always been this manipulative, making him the bad parent of the two.

I still wonder why Gabriel doesn’t care for his own son. I can’t remember if I saw it in another Tumblr post or a video analysis, but someone had mentioned maybe he neglects and manipulates Adrien because once the world restarts (if he gets his wish, which he definitely doesn’t), he’ll get a version of Adrien that won’t remember any of this. So, he somehow feels it’s justified to neglect and akumatize his son while he works towards getting the miraculouses. But, honestly? This is Adrien now, in the present, and no matter what, he should still be here for him, showing that he cares. He clearly has a lot of faith that he’ll get the miraculous, if this is the case.

So, there’s that theory, or, he maybe just sees him as an object. He uses Adrien a lot to be this “perfect” boy. He’s a model, and he’s multi-talented. This could be just because he wants good money and to seem like this wonderful father figure to the public eye, or it could be because Adrien is a sentimonster which might not be an actual human in the eyes of Gabriel.

He’s going insane

Gabriel is shown to be getting crazier as the series progresses. He has started going insane lengths just to get the miraculouses, almost as if he does it just because he enjoys controlling people.

For crying out loud, he akumatized himself just to trick people. He akumatized his own son since he knows how badly he can manipulate someone else who’s also grieving.

Listen, I don’t feel ready for his crazy ass in season 5 with all the miraculouses he now has. You saw the way that man evil laughed when he got the miraculous from Felix?

The season 4 finale really showed how insane he’s going. In Risk, he has a breakdown in the basement. He starts screaming about how he’s not worthy of their love and smashes his fist onto Emilie’s coffin(?) literally causing it to crack. Then he runs away, scared for his life. And even in the next scene, he doesn’t even really ask poor Nathalie if she’s okay. Just gets the idea that Ladybug never takes a risk, and laughs maniacally and runs out to start his plan.

He seems power hungry

Speaking of the finale, he was so thrilled about getting the other miraculous. Isn’t that kinda odd? Those aren’t the ones he wanted. Those aren’t going to grant his wish.

He might be happy just because it’s more help in getting the miraculouses. However, it could also be due to his intentions changing.

“I took all the miraculous from her! Now I am more powerful than ever!” Uh. Absolutely sounds power hungry. He’s living for this.

This man uses his son. He wants to keep his Agreste brand alive and well. He ignores his son to focus on getting his wife back. It’s proof he’s conceited and wants this power.

Conclusion

There’s probably more reasons I can’t think of off the top of my head, but yeah. I seriously don’t think he’s doing this all for Emilie anymore. You can’t convince me otherwise. He’s such an awful person.

[wield-the-mighty-pen]

Just thinking about how temporality became a major theme of season 4, and how especially in the latter half, we are constantly introduced to this theme, and shown over and over again that there is no permanence in Marinette's life, or really in Miraculous in general.

How we as an audience, are bombarded with episodes such as Kuro Neko and Ephemeral, whose main storyline hinge upon temporary events, changes that are themselves unsustainable, but also interrupt the status quo in such a way that, it too will never remain the same.

And then, having this all culminate with the ultimate change, the ultimate symbol of temporariness, the season 4 finale, where the kwamis are taken, where Hawkmoth's status as a non-threat is changed, where Marinette/Ladybug's understanding of the world is dramatically shifted, where the safety and security, both the characters and we as the audience, have grown used to, shifts beneath our feet.

[the-chat-who-got-the-cream]

where’s my son where’s my son where’s my son whERE’S MY SON WHERE’S MY SON  WHERE’S MY SON WHERE’S MY SON WHERE’S MY SON-

[howhow326]

"Why did Adrien leave to London without telling us? His dad can't have that much control over him!"

I am twisting Nino's head around.

[kisilinramblings]

Hot Take (and probably unpopular opinion), but Shadow Moth’s plan with Risk did work. The plan just had a surprising execution Gabriel couldn’t anticipated since he doesn’t know Laydbug and Chat Noir’s secret identity. 

If it weren’t from Risk’s influence, Adrien would not have risked to trust Félix’s plan and wouldn’t have switched places with him.

If it weren’t from Risk’s influence, Marinette wouldn’t have risked everything just to bring Adrien back. 

And Multiplication showed us that both Marinette AND Adrien blame themselves for the lost Miraculouses. While really the biggest move that made Félix come in Paris in the very first place was Gabriel’s decision to send away Adrien on an international trip for an out of the blue commercial.

Because Gabriel 's plan with Risk, because he doesn’t know what would upfold as he would have no control over what will happen, he wants both Émilie’s ring and Adrien to be away from Paris before he unleashes the second part of his plan with Strike Back. 

Félix snatching Ladybug’s yoyo and portal to the Miracle Box is due of a combination of both our heroes and villain’s actions because of Risk. So Gabriel’s plan did work. But he just didn’t know nor imagine the biggest trigger would be him letting go of control and letting his son away to unleash a domino chain amplified by the Akumatized’s power that would have gave him a huge victory and blow to the heroes camp.

[miraculousalt]

So when S6 starts Adrien wont know yet that Ladybug didn get the Butterfly miraculous cuz she'll probably just tell suhan, Alya n maybe Luka. So Chat Noir will likly ask her for a reveal in ep 1 cause thats wha they always said, they reveal when its save.

Is there evn any point in hoping tha she ll go bout that any other way than jus lyin her ass off again, stall for time with excuse afta excuse until Lila will attack as Butterfly & Chat has to find out the worst way again tha she lied to him n keepin his hopes up? Her jus keepin him 'happy' by telling him they ll finlly getta know each other soon just for her to never have had that intention in the first place?

Wow, that sounds like Ephemeral all over again. Great, cant wait.