#Music made me lose control. I slaughtered them like cattle.

[polyg0re]

Hi, I'm still alive. As you can see here the voices are winning.

[thegloriouscollectorlady]

Daryl on a leadership arc?

I was working on another theory related to this one and it prompted me to consider some things that led to this theories creation. Basically I explored the idea of Daryl having a leadership arc and all the pieces that I think contribute to that and Beth is a huge part of that. This theory sort of got away from me and as a warning it’s quite long because it covers a lot of stuff over the course of multiple seasons. 

I was compiling information and hashing out some thoughts on another post and I made some connections I have never thought about before in relation to Beth and the music box and what it might symbolize. I was hashing out some of the facts that surround Beth’s “death” and I realized in doing so that there were three main ripples from Beth’s “death” that affected TWD story moving forward. They all connect back to the beginning of S4 and are very much intertwined with Beth’s “death” and the music box. In 5.10 it is Carl who presents the music box to Maggie, Daryl who tries to fix it and give it back to Maggie (the music box plays because of Daryl), and Maggie and Sasha who hear the music box play. This is important to the three major ripples that Beth’s “death” creates.

The first person affected by Beth’s death is Rick. Rick’s entire arc from the beginning of S4 onward was about what type of leader Rick would become. Resolution to that arc did not take place until this season which is season 7. Rick is a fairly effective and fair leader or he’s trying to be until he loses Lori. Rick losing Lori makes him question his role as a leader and he falls apart after her death. At first he loses it completely and then when he finally manages to find some solid footing again he is struggling to figure out what type of leader he wants to be. As he’s trying to find himself Rick goes through several iterations of himself. At the beginning of S4 Rick is playing the farmer and he has relinquished all leadership to the others in the group. The group is ill prepared when the Governor rolls right up to their gates and Rick no doubt blames himself for Herschel’s death and the loss of the prison. In his heart of hearts Rick knows his role is as the group’s leader and he blames himself for not leading before the fall of the prison. Rick is still floundering when he, Daryl, Michonne, and Carl end up at Terminus. It’s why during the S4 finale “A” there are flashbacks to the prison that involve Carl, Beth, Judith, Herschel, and Rick. These are the people that will shape who Rick becomes as a leader and we are given one final reminder that Rick was at one time trying to be farmer Rick. In  “A” this idea of farmer Rick is brought up in stark contrast to the themes going on at Terminus. Herschel is a symbol of farmer Rick. Herschel died with farmer Rick at the prison but Rick doesn’t realize that for quite a while. It’s a slow kind of death that lingers as farmer Rick becomes mixed with something else altogether. Terminus and by extension Gareth are symbols of what Rick can become if he does not find balance. Farmer Rick grows vegetables for food Gareth turns people into food. This is about as different as different can be. There is nothing more extreme than what Gareth has become. You are either the butcher or the cattle. We are reminded of course that Gareth and his people were not always like this but that circumstances have made them into people who have perpetrated heinous acts. Gareth and his people know how far they have gone and much like the Governor there is no going back for them because they are too far gone. They know that and have accepted it. As Rick struggles to find balance in his leadership we see parallels between Rick and Gareth through Bob. At Terminus Bob, Rick, Daryl, and Glenn are dragged to the trough. They didn’t choose these people randomly they are also part of Rick’s development as a leader. At the trough Gareth says to Bob that they can’t go back. Gareth is very much responsible for the way that Bob dies and if C@rol had not rescued TF he very much would have slaughtered him at the trough. Rick them repeats that same line to officer Bob from Grady after running him down with a car. The mirror is intended to show that Rick could become Gareth if he loses himself.  When TF goes to rescue Beth Rick wants to go in guns blazing and take Grady by surprise. It is Tye who suggests the hostage plan. Rick defers to Daryl when Daryl chooses Tye’s plan because Beth is Daryl’s person and for that reason Daryl is the defacto leader but while Rick goes along with Daryl’s plan it’s clear he thinks his plan would work better but he understands why Daryl would choose the seemingly safer plan.

When Beth “dies” at Grady it is a huge blow to Rick for many reasons. The first reason is that Rick cares for Beth as a family member and part of the group. Rick was particularly close to Herschel so it would be a blow for that reason as well. The second reason is because Daryl is Rick’s brother and Rick realizes what losing Beth did to Daryl. Daryl’s pain is Rick’s pain because they are so close. It’s why Rick tries to talk to Daryl on the road to Virginia and why when they get to the ASZ Rick tries to talk to Daryl about Lori. Rick realizes how out of place Daryl feels at the ASZ and he also realizes that he is struggling still with his loss of Beth and Rick is trying to connect to Daryl on both of those levels and it doesn’t work because Daryl shuts him down. Finally Beth’s death affects Rick in one other very important way. Beth’s death is the catalyst for Rick’s final decent into being the butcher instead of the cattle. When Tye dies on the mission to honor Beth that is the final nail in the coffin for the part of Rick that is farmer Rick. Rick’s speech in the barn about being the walking dead is akin to Gareth’s assertions about being the butcher or the cattle. This is the point where Rick fully transforms into Rick with no mercy for anyone that is not part of his group. Rick’s descent into chaos begins here and continues throughout the rest of season 5 until it culminates with his out of control behavior in 5.16. The thing about Rick shooting Pete is that it’s almost like Rick shooting a part of himself. Rick’s entire relationship with Jessie was about Rick coming to terms with who he is as a leader and with who he is as a person. Through Pete and Jessie Rick was able to come to terms with all the emotional fallout from Shane and Lori. Pete symbolized Shane but also parts of Rick himself as Rick was in Shane’s position with Jessie. It allowed Rick to come to terms with what Shane was feeling and why he might have done what he did. Having felt those things too Rick was finally able to lay those demons to rest. That’s why the music box that symbolizes Beth played at the end of 5.16 and why Judith and Carl were the ones listening to it. The music box played to herald in the final pieces of Rick’s character development as a leader. This was the place where Rick the butcher begins to fade in the place of Rick the authentic leader. The first major piece of this transition comes with Jessie’s death and Carl getting shot. Jessie’s death isn’t really about Jessie to Rick. It actually is more symbolic of Lori’s death. Lori’s death gutted Rick as a leader and made him second guess himself because Rick felt like if he couldn’t protect Lori the most important person in his life than he couldn’t protect anyone. Jessie’s death gave Rick the closure he never received with Lori’s. Through Jessie Rick saw the love of a mother for their innocent child and what they would do to ensure they survived. Lori willingly gave up her own life so that Judith could live. She loved her that much and she was at peace with her choice. Jessie wasn’t able to save Sam but Rick realized when she wouldn’t let him go just how strong a mother’s love could be for their child. Watching Jessie give up her life for her child because she couldn’t let him go wasn’t a coincidence it was done that way so that Rick could understand why Lori did what she did and that she would have been at peace with it.  That understanding is what finally allowed Rick to let go of Lori. Rick’s almost unnatural obsession with Jessie wasn’t about Jessie it was always about Lori and Rick’s need to gain the closure he’d never had with her.

That is what allows Rick to finally move on. Jessie’s death is what prompts Rick to put away his wedding ring, to finally open himself up to a relationship with Michonne, and to openly discuss Judith’s parentage without malice. Rick finally obtains closure and with Michonne he finds personal balance and happiness. But the thing that pushes Rick to be a great leader and the person we see at the end of S7 is his children. It is Carl and Judith who inspire Rick to want to make the world a better place. Rick sees in his son after Glenn’s death and in the ensuing exchanges with Negan a reflection of himself. It is Carl and Judith that inspire Rick and also Maggie and Glenn’s baby. Rick wants to ensure that the world is a better place for them. Rick finds his greater good in the youth and it’s why he tells Michonne that if anything were to happen to either of them then the other needs to keep going. Because their cause is more important than their personal feelings and relationship. What they have identified is something worth fighting for. It’s something worth leading for and this greater good will be the thing that compels Rick to the role of a great leader.  The music box played for Judith and Carl because it symbolized the death of Rick living for himself.  Rick understanding the importance of his children in his life is the coda to his role as a leader because it finally gives him a greater good to aspire to and a purpose greater than himself or simply surviving.  As Bob tells Rick nightmares end but they don’t have to end who you are.

The second ripple that is created by Beth’s death is somewhat intertwined with the first and encompasses many different people but the end result is that it affects Maggie the most. The second ripple is intertwined with the first because it begins with Bob’s death. Bob’s death is really more about Rick but it does affect both Sasha and Tye also and really the arc goes all the way back to S4 when Karen is killed. Karen’s death begins a slow fade for Tye as he begins to realize that the world will never be what it once was. Tye accepts Karen’s death and forgives C@rol because he cares deeply for C@rol but he never really comes to terms with it. He is never fully able to accept that the world is no longer what it was. He is unwilling to change with the world. He is a prime example of the idea of adaptation. When the world changes you either adapt or you die and unfortunately Tye was unable to adapt. Losing Bob and even the girls was a blow for Tye but it’s really Beth’s “death” that pushes Tye over the edge. The reason for that is because it was Tye’s plan that Daryl chooses. Tye believes desperately one last time in the decency of humanity when he suggests his plan and he is brutally proven wrong by Dawn. In a decent world Tye’s plan should have been fool proof. There were no loop holes and no reason for it to go wrong. Unfortunately Dawn wasn’t decent and it did go wrong and not only did Beth “die” but Daryl was shattered by the outcome as well. Tye’s faith in humanity died in that Grady hallway and it can be assumed that watching Daryl and Maggie grieving tore Tye apart. Having lost Karen Tye can understand what Daryl is feeling and on yet another level he can understand I am sure what C@rol felt as well. He did not outright kill Beth but I am sure in his mind it felt very much like in a way he had. Tye was also shown to have a strong connection to Judith and it was not lost on anyone at the prison how much Beth cared for the baby. When Tye and Sasha were first introduced to the prison Sasha even asks Beth if Judith is hers. Beth’s “death” is the proverbial straw for Tye and I believe that’s also why Beth sings Tye into accepting his own death. Tye went on a mission to honor Beth because he feels compelled to do so because of his guilt over her “death” but his guilt is so strong that he never even completes the mission. Beth’s singing (a metaphor for her death) is the Coda for Tye the end of his story. That is the reason she sings him into acceptance of his fate and the reason she is driving the heaven mobile as it’s been known to have been called.  Both of those acts symbolize that her “death” was the coda to Tye’s life.  

Tye’s death then creates a ripple that affects Sasha and by extension Maggie. Sasha’s connection to Bob also very much intertwined her arc with Rick’s at one point but by the time Tye dies the connection is being shifted to Maggie. Tye’s death takes a strong bond between Sasha and Maggie and makes it even stronger and we see that connection in 5.10 as they bond over the loss of siblings. We also see the beginning of Sasha’s arc closing but also in a way the beginning of Maggie’s leadership role. When the music box plays in 5.10 it signals the coda for Sasha which will also herald in Maggie becoming a great leader. The music box playing or in other words Beth singing also creates a connection between Tye and Sasha and their deaths. Beth’s singing was the coda on Tye’s life and little music box Beth finally singing symbolized the final act of Sasha’s life ( she is also listening to music as she is accepting her death). It is during 5.10 that we begin to see hints of Abe’s interest in Sasha. We see Sasha’s struggle in 5b but it is during S6 that we really begin to see Abe and Sasha’s relationship develop. Abe’s death is tragic because it’s the final blow for Sasha in such a short period of time. If she’d had time with Abe then she may have been able to recover enough emotionally to weather his death but unfortunately that didn’t happen. The really interesting thing here is that Abe’s death very much resembled Beth’s in a way. Beth stood up to Dawn because she couldn’t stand the injustice of what was happening. Beth refused to let Noah take her place so she stood up to Dawn which resulted in her being shot. Beth standing up against Dawn caused  Dawn to kill her much the same way Abe’s standing up to Negan in the line up caused his death.  Abe refused to allow someone else to die in his place during the line up. Some other interesting connections here are that Dawn and Negan are painted as very much the same type of leader. I will point out these connections and similarities when I discuss why Beth’s “death” doesn’t make sense within the greater story and also there are a load of connections here between the way Tye accepted his death and the way Sasha accepted hers.  In 5.9 we see the culmination of Tye’s struggle. He has lost too many people and he is trapped not by circumstance but by his mind. His emotional pain over those loses leads to his death. He isn’t actively seeking death but he very passively allows it to happen. Then he wrestles with his personal guilt and let’s go of all the pain from life before accepting his death. Beth’s singing helps to ease Tye’s transition into acceptance and the song choice indicates the struggle Tye is going through. In 7.16 we have a very similar situation with Sasha. Sasha is also trapped by her emotional pain. However she is actively seeking death even if she doesn’t recognize it as being that at first. But her conversations with Rosita indicate that she acknowledges on at least some level what she is doing. Sasha is also eased into acceptance of letting go with music. The song that she listens to on the ipod is about being free and it’s symbolic of what Sasha is feeling. Then of course through flashbacks much like Tyrese’s we understand what has led Sasha to this place as she struggles to accept what she had done. In a beautiful closing of multiple arcs Sasha’s death harkens all the way back to the last words she speaks to Bob when she asks him to tell her what good can come from all this bad. Sasha’s entire final closing arc is about finding the good in the bad. In a terrible situation where it seems that all her choices have been taken away from her Sasha finds peace in making the best decision she is able to. She gives her family a chance against Negan because of her death. That is the good in all the bad. That is what she has been able to hold onto so that she can let go.

I would posit that the reason we were shown flashbacks to 5.10 in 7.16 was to remind us of the music box playing in those same scenes in 5.10. The music box isn’t shown in 7.16 but Sasha is sung to closure much the same way Tye was and the reminder of the music box is a reminder of when Sasha’s arc began to close but even more than that it’s a sign heralding in Maggie’s role as a leader. Sasha’s death in 7.16 is the final piece of the puzzle for Maggie’s leadership arc. In S4 Maggie is separated from Glenn after the fall of the prison when she escapes with Bob and Sasha. It is during this time that we are shown how absolutely driven Maggie can be. She hunts for Glenn with a single minded determination and she is willing to do it alone when she feels that her mission is a danger to Bob and Sasha. It’s Bob who tells Maggie and Sasha that people can’t make it alone anymore that you have to have a group and people. Maggie’s time with Sasha and Bob is about her acceptance of the idea that she can’t make it alone anymore that other people will help her if she lets them. This is the first major lesson that Maggie has to learn as a leader. The writers provide Maggie with a beautiful heartfelt reunion with Glenn. She never gives up on the idea that Glenn is alive even though he was so sick when the prison fell and she is rewarded with a reunion even if it is for a short time. However with Beth Maggie is shown to have believed that her sister is dead. Even though Beth was young and strong, even after finding out that Beth was with Daryl one of the most capable survivalists in the group, Maggie does not believe that her sister is alive. With this idea the writers show a very clear juxtaposition in Maggie’s thinking. The question would be why and what does this have to do with Maggie’s role as a leader? Some of Beth’s last meaningful conversation with Maggie revolved around the illness arc at the prison when Beth tells Maggie that they don’t get to be upset because they all have jobs to do. We see this dialogue mirrored by Glenn later on and this is essentially what Maggie tries to do after Glenn’s death. She is able to pull it together when others in the group are not. Because Maggie lost Beth without a goodbye and without closure she is forced to hang on to what she can about her sister. In 5.10 we see Maggie finally coming back to herself and doing that when Daryl tells her that Beth was strong. Maggie’s attempts to comfort Sasha and the peace she finds within herself are about remembering the things her sister meant to her. Maggie’s conversation with Sasha mirrors what she learned while being with both her and Bob that if they work together they can make it and the sun rises on Maggie’s role as a leader at this point in the story and the music box singing indicates this.

In 7.16 we see the sun setting on Sasha’s role in the story and on her role in Maggie’s leadership arc. Sasha’s death mirrors Tye’s in many ways to show the connection between the siblings and also to show that Sasha is okay with letting go and we see scenes in 7.16 which show us that Sasha knows that Maggie would be okay with her finally letting go. Sasha’s immediate role in the story is over though not her influence in the story. The hard part is over. The storm that is shown in Them is a symbol of both the hardships that TF has faced up to that point and also it is symbolic of the storm that is coming. Maggie and Sasha go out together to face it which symbolizes what they will both be facing after the similar circumstance of losing their loved ones to Negan. Sasha says “It should have torn us apart” and losing Abe does tear Sasha apart whereas Maggie says “It didn’t” and she won’t be even after losing Glenn. This whole scene is a metaphor for what is coming for these two extraordinary women and the journey they are about to undergo. Much like Bob influenced Rick’s leadership arc Sasha influenced Maggie’s. As much as Maggie loved Sasha she wasn’t strong. Not the way Maggie is. Beth’s “death” taught Maggie about perseverance and having a job to do and Glenn’s compounds this for Maggie. What Sasha’s death does is to make Maggie pause and consider why she is doing what she is doing. Maggie’s leadership becomes about honoring Glenn’s legacy and honoring the legacy of all those that they lost. Through the loss of Sasha Maggie understands the sacrifice that one makes to protect those that they love. Sasha giving up her life for her family reminded Maggie of the sacrifices that Glenn made. Much like Rick finds purpose in his children Maggie finds purpose as a leader as well. Sasha’s sacrifice reminds Maggie that she can’t do things alone. That she needs her family and that being a great leader is about honoring Glenn and Sasha and the sacrifices that they have made. It’s an interesting dichotomy in that Maggie had to feel alone to find her strength. In S4 Maggie tries to leave Sasha and Bob behind to find Glenn whom she has lost. Glenn is a symbol of Maggie’s leadership because he is a part of who she is. As her partner Glenn is Maggie’s other half. The part of her that balances her. In S7 Maggie has to lose everyone she relies on to find that part of herself that makes her a great leader that part of herself that exists to honor Glenn and his legacy which exists through their child and which is also tied up in all the people that she has loved and lost who have given her and Glenn’s child the chance at a brighter future. The scenes from 5.10 are repeated in 7.16 to bring Sasha’s final arc to a close and to show her impact on Maggie’s final development. Sasha’s sacrifice also serves to remind Maggie and the audience of the type of man Glenn was and that provides the final bit of closure to Maggie’s development as a leader.

The final ripple surrounding Beth’s death has to do with Daryl. I would posit that Daryl has been destined since S4 for a leadership role. We see the precursors of this in how he stepped up and was leading the prison at the beginning of S4. He is still very uncomfortable with the role but he is doing it with the councils help. The council is technically in charge but certain scenes indicate that the people in the prison are starting to see Daryl as the figurative leader. People need someone to look up to in times of hardship and trial and it’s clear that Daryl has become that symbol to many at the prison. The reason Daryl would make a great leader is simple. It’s because he cares for people and because he will do anything to ensure the safety of those he cares about. Beth mentions this in S3 when she talks about how the group is weak without Daryl. She talks about how Daryl saved Judith because he couldn’t stand to lose anyone else. She sees straight to the core of who Daryl is and what would make him a great leader without having to be told. Later in 4.1 Daryl outright admits to Beth this very same thing when he talks with her about losing Zach. Zach was a plot device that allowed the writers to bring Beth and Daryl together over the loss of someone they both cared for. It allowed Daryl in a moment of rare honesty to admit to Beth the thing that haunts him most which is that he’s tired of losing people. The interesting thing about this scene is that Beth had already figured this out about Daryl when he went off with Merle. Now he openly shares his most closely held sorrows with her confirming what she believed about him. This very subtle and absolutely orchestrated exchange shows us that Beth understands Daryl on a very intimate level. She sees him and understands him and she has the courage even in this exchange to offer Daryl what he really needs which is comfort. Even though nothing about Daryl invites it Beth understands that Daryl needs comfort in these moments and she offers that to him foreshadowing the much more intense purging of demons that Daryl will do in “Still”.

Character development wise the very interesting thing about Beth and Daryl’s exchange in 4.1 is that Daryl wants Beth’s comfort. I am not sure he even knows it himself but his response to her is that of someone that wants what she is offering but has no idea what to do with it. Daryl wants the physicality of touch and familiarity with someone and in fact is probably starved for it but has no idea how to go about pursuing it. We can assume that most of Daryl’s experiences with physical touch are about pain and his avoidance therefore makes sense. Beth however, teaches Daryl about the comfort and love that can be derived from physical touch. That’s why it was so important to the show to get certain things right when it came to the hugs between Beth and Daryl. The second one in particular was done in a way that was about comfort and healing not about anything romantic. The reason for that had to do with what was being developed between Beth and Daryl and that something was a deep and abiding trust and connection that transcends romance. Daryl is used to touch being something that breaks him down and Beth uses her second hug to literally hold Daryl up while he breaks down so that he can rebuild himself.   We see Daryl’s absolute trust in Beth as he breaks down in “Still” as he purges even deeper and more closely held hurts and sorrows than in “30 Days”  and Beth again offers physical comfort but it’s on a much deeper level.  It’s after these exchanges with Beth that we see Daryl begin to open up when it comes to physical touch.  She teaches him about the comfort that can be derived from a hug and it’s after Beth that Daryl seeks and accepts this kind of touch with others. The two most interesting things about this are that it was Beth who finally understood Daryl enough to see that he needed physical touch. She saw through his walls and aloofness and had the courage to offer something she thought he desperately needed and she did it in a way that allowed Daryl to accept it. The other really interesting thing about this is that after “Still” we see Daryl touching Beth all the time. He’s almost magnetically tuned to her. We see him in her personal space while they hunt the walker, giving her piggy back rides, holding her hand, bridal carrying her, sitting right next to her instead of across the table, guiding her with a hand on her back, standing shoulder to shoulder and almost touching. Daryl morphs from a person who shies away from all physical touch and only offers minimal contact with others to a person who openly offers and seeks a physical connection with someone else.  It’s a glaring illustration because not only is Daryl actively engaging in something he has always shied away from but he’s enjoying it and he’s happy in a way and on a level that he’s never able to achieve again after losing Beth. The funeral home is Daryl’s version of paradise. His own Eden and when he suggests to Beth that they stay there it is Daryl’s way of trying to hang onto that happiness that he’s finally found. Of course Daryl isn’t allowed to hang onto Beth and losing her is symbolic of losing the happiness and contentment he has found with her and while he is certainly more physically demonstrative with the rest of his family after being reunited with them he never shows the physical ease with anyone else that he demonstrated with Beth. He accepts comfort from others in the form of hugs (Maggie, Rick, virtually everyone else this season) and he offers comfort in the form of hugs (C@rol) but we do not see him seeking out physical touch simply for the joy of being near someone that makes him happy. He isn’t seeking a physical connection with anyone to cement a much deeper emotional connection like he did with Beth as was demonstrated by all the little ways he wanted to touch her and all the ways he found reasons to be in her personal space.

We have yet to see Daryl interact with any other character on such a familial level and the reason it’s important is because of what it shows. Daryl was physically abused as a child. Touch became aversive to him because of what was done to him by his father and possibly others. Daryl’s lack of trust and guardedness originates from his past and his aversion to touch is a tangible manifestation of what he feels.  It’s a subtle and non-verbal way for the actor and writers to show what Daryl is feeling inside.  That’s why Daryl’s reaction to Beth is so subtle yet so intensely powerful. Beth approaches Daryl both in “30 Days” and in “Still” with some degree of hesitation. She knows what Daryl needs but she isn’t sure he will want to accept it. In “30 Days” we see her hesitate and give Daryl the chance to step away. She is handing him all the power in the situation and giving him the chance to protect himself and step away if he wants. He does not. Then in “Still” we see Beth hesitate again. She understands what Daryl needs but she isn’t sure it will be accepted. I think that’s part of what makes the back hug even more powerful. Not only does Daryl accept her physical comfort and release completely but Beth is literally pressed against the scars of his past as she holds him up and he completely releases himself over to her. Also from a survival standpoint the most vulnerable position anyone can show is to turn their back on someone. It completely leaves a person open to attack and they are absolutely unprotected. It’s why prey animals are instinctually driven to protect their backs from predators.  Daryl turning his back to Beth and allowing her to come up behind him and to hold him up shows absolute trust in another human being that Daryl has never shown before. He allows himself to break and he allows Beth to hold him together and for someone like Daryl that is huge. The bond that manifests from this experience is one that is deeply complicated and I love that Gimple talks about it being something that transcends romance because it does. Daryl’s bond with Beth becomes so much deeper than physical attraction and romantic love. It becomes about trusting someone with yourself and who you really are unguarded and without walls for the first time which doesn’t necessarily happen in romantic relationships. The Daryl Dixon we see after this experience with Beth is the true Daryl the man he is at his core without any artifice or desire to protect himself.  Beth earned Daryl’s unequivocal loyalty because she offered him hers. When he was absolutely at his most vulnerable Beth protected him and that allowed Daryl to develop a unique level of trust with Beth. It’s why we see such a transformation in Daryl’s demeanor and why Daryl seeks out a physical connection with Beth and appears to want to be in her space and touching her. Being with Beth, being around Beth, makes Daryl feel safe, and accepted, and cared for. It makes him feel things he has never trusted anyone enough to feel before and he wants to feel them more and he desires to make her feel them as well as is demonstrated by the things he wants to do for her. It’s that emotional high that he is riding that makes him forget himself enough to open the door and let the walkers into the funeral home and that in and of itself is heartbreaking because with Beth’s eventual “death” Daryl is taught a very negative thing. He’s taught that allowing himself to feel safe with someone, allowing himself to feel what he felt with Beth, is dangerous, and this unfortunate experience negatively reinforced all the bad life lessons Daryl has lived with since childhood.

Now the question that arises from this is what does this have to do with Daryl’s leadership arc. Why have him connect so deeply with Beth only to take her away from him after he fights so hard to get her back. Daryl goes through his own version of hell after losing Beth. First he runs all night long and well into the day to find her only to lose the trail and collapse in physical and emotional exhaustion, he runs into the Claimers and is forced to deal with them until he can get away, he’s reunited with Rick but in a less than ideal way, they end up at Terminus, everyone else is reunited after (it’s clear from Daryl’s face that he hoped that Beth was in that shack with Tye), and then Daryl goes through hell in Atlanta. Even after C@rol is badly hurt after the van falls off the bridge and they lose their weapons Daryl keeps pushing to find Beth which results in his best friends being hit by a car and taken away as well. Yet in the end all that pain and suffering goes unrewarded as Beth is taken from Daryl in an instant and he never even gets to say hello to her. It’s the writers version of giving a character everything they have ever dreamed about, waving it in front of them  before taking it away, making them go through the nine circles of hell to try to get it back, and then in the end poof it’s just gone without a trace. That kind of story is intended to serve a purpose and because of the way that Beth “died” we can assume that her death itself was intended to serve a purpose or they would have written it in a different manner. The writers and TPTB are masters at writing meaningful deaths especially for main characters. They have done it over and over and over again without fail. Even in less than ideal situations like what happened with Abe and Glenn the characters get closure. In Abe’s case his body language told us he wanted to be chosen. He wanted to sacrifice himself for his family and his legacy is one that Sasha will later follow and he says goodbye to her in a very subtle way with his peace sign. In Glenn’s case his death also prompts Maggie to pick up the mantel of his legacy to help others. Glenn’s closure to Maggie is his line about finding her no matter what and the closure for the audience is Maggie’s monologue in 7.16 in which she honors Glenn and tells Rick that Glenn’s selflessness is what has inspired her to be a leader and what has brought their family together and made it what it is. That’s beautiful and moving and even if the closure wasn’t immediate it happened. Even Sasha’s death echoed Abe’s in many ways to offer his character more closure. We see through the flashbacks who Abe felt himself to be and his sacrifice in 6.16 is even more clear in light of those flashback conversations with Sasha. Main character deaths always mean something. Secondary character deaths can be and are often used as plot devices for the main characters but main character deaths are written to mean more.  The way a main character dies is important to the story, the character’s arc, and the arcs of the characters that care for them. Beth’s “death” affected both Rick and Maggie but the way Beth “died” was wholly about affecting Daryl’s story.  No matter how Beth “died” her death would have affected Rick because he would have blamed himself for what happened. In Maggie’s case whether Beth and Daryl had closure in the Grady hallway would not have affected her loss because she still would not have been there to see it.  The lack of interaction between Beth and Daryl , the abruptness of her death, the lack of closure between them was all about Daryl’s story and Daryl’s story alone. (Side note here that it’s important to note that neither Maggie nor Daryl get to say any kind of goodbye to Beth. That loss is absolutely without closure for both of them).

So if we conclude that the way Beth “died” is meaningful then the next obvious question that arises from this is why the writers orchestrated this type of “death” for Beth because writing wise they were trying to achieve certain things in order to propel the story forward. So why deny Daryl the opportunity for closure and the chance to say goodbye to someone that he connected to on such an emotional level.  I think there were many reasons for this for example it created a situation where Daryl lost yet another person that he was close to that he didn’t get to say good bye too (think 7.10 that episode was huge for Daryl in a way because he finally got the chance to say goodbye to someone he cared for and there was closure in that for him). I think it’s very significant that it was Beth that noted this aspect of who Daryl was in S3 when she talked with C@rol about Daryl not wanting to lose people. It’s the foundation of their relationship and hugely important to it as a whole right up to the end when Beth’s last words to Daryl are “I am not gonna leave you”. Losing people is the whole theme to their relationship. Losing Beth this way also created a situation where Daryl had to move forward on his own and I think this is a huge part of Daryl’s arc as a leader. We see Daryl as a leader of sorts at the prison in 4.1 but he isn’t very self-assured about leading.  Daryl would make a great leader because of his very concrete understanding of right and wrong and doing the right thing however Daryl also has areas where he could develop more confidence as a leader. I think it’s very significant that Daryl lost Beth and then picked up the book on child abuse victims in S5. Daryl’s time with Beth made him want to heal. It made him want to be a better man and I think part of the reason Daryl had to lose Beth during his leadership development was so that he could accomplish that on his own. I think given how close Beth and Daryl became during their time together that we can assume that Daryl would have leaned heavily on Beth had he gotten her back in S5. She had become Daryl’s light at the end of the tunnel and it would have been easy for him to fall into a pattern of relying on Beth for his happiness instead of focusing on himself. It’s very much that whole displacement where people focus on something outside of themselves for their happiness and it creates  very dependent relationships. Daryl picks up the child abuse survivor book because the writers want the audience to understand that there are things Daryl needs to work on about himself. He isn’t ready for Beth in much the same way that he isn’t ready to be a leader yet. Losing Beth gives Daryl the emotional push that he needs to try to heal himself and to work on himself. Whereas a large contingent of the group tries to bring Noah home as a way to honor Beth Daryl is conspicuously absent. Daryl’s way of honoring Beth is shown to us by the way he chooses to live after losing her. All of his actions in S5 and through him finding Dwight in S6 have to do with living in a way that honors Beth’s assertion that there are still good people in the world.  The interesting thing about this is that Daryl’s attempts to honor Beth are derailed by none other than Dwight and Sherry showing up on the scene indicating that they are part of the puzzle to Daryl’s development as a leader.

It’s also very interesting because of the Dwight/Sherry and Daryl/Beth parallels. I think it can be concluded that this arc will culminate in Daryl finding his place as a leader within a community and fulfilling the potential we saw in him as a leader way back in 4.1. I think that culmination of Daryl as a leader will also involve him finding himself healed and ready for a relationship. Remember Daryl’s potential as a leader became obvious in 4.1 which is also the episode where Daryl banters with Beth about the “damn romance novel”.  I think that was pointing to the fact that Daryl would not be ready for his romance arc until he was also ready for his role as a leader and that these two things were intertwined. I also think the romance novel we saw in 7.10 with the hero giving the heroine a piggy back ride is related to all of this. So here’s the thing if the music box was a symbol of Beth and her impact on Rick and Maggie’s arcs then Daryl’s arc closing should mirror theirs. The music box playing for both Rick and Maggie indicated when Beth’s impact was most important to their story and its culmination. It appears to have been used to indicate the lynchpin in their characters development as leaders. Therefore it is reasonable to assume that we should see the same thing for Daryl and I have a really interesting theory about this that has to do with “The Cell” and the music that is played for Daryl in that episode.

So just for reference sake think back to Rick and Daryl’s Sundance kid episode and think about how strongly Daryl protested Rick playing music in the car. I don’t think Rick even remotely got why Daryl was upset or he would have stopped but this scene can be related straight back to the piano scene in “Alone” where Daryl tells Beth to keep singing because there isn’t a jukebox. Well the CD player in the car is sort of like a jukebox and we can assume that Daryl’s aversion to the music (he’d been shown to like it and even play CD’s in the car himself in the past) related directly back to Beth. Daryl didn’t want to hear the music because it reminded him of Beth and it hurt. Fast forward to “The Cell” and think about the primary way they were torturing Daryl . . . it was through music and they later even show us that Eugene isn’t very traumatized by the music. I think at that point the audience was just as traumatized by the music as Daryl but Eugene is shown to actually like the music even though he’s scared out of his mind. So if Daryl was traumatized by the idea of the music itself than who is a symbol of music to Daryl but none other than Beth.  An even more compelling argument for this theory is Daryl’s standoff with Negan when he asserts in unequivocal terms that he is Daryl relating back directly to Daryl and Beth’s conversation during “Still” when she tells him she won’t always be there and that he has to stay who his is not who he was. This point in “The Cell” correlates back to Daryl having to listen to the song “Crying” that Dwight plays. It is both music which relates to Beth and also a song about running into an old flame and realizing you are still in love with them and it is too late.  Given the stance Daryl takes with Negan shortly thereafter the conclusion can be drawn that the song reminds Daryl of Beth and his time with her. Daryl never would have given in to Negan because of Glenn. He loved Glenn and would never betray him like that but the pressure that Negan is exerting on Daryl relates directly back to Beth’s encouraging Daryl to remain who he is and to never betray that. Daryl taking that stand in “The Cell” is a huge leap in character development for him. It’s horribly tragic because of what leads him to that point but it’s also monumental. Daryl followed Merle even though that wasn’t who he was. He fell in with the Claimers rather than be alone because he thought they had a code of sorts and he didn’t realize how bad they were. However in this moment even faced with likely death Daryl grabs on to who he is and refuses to relinquish that. It is a huge step towards leadership and leading because it shows that even faced with likely death Daryl won’t compromise his ideals not for anyone and not anymore.

I believe that Dwight playing that song for Daryl might have been his music box moment. The point in which his leadership arc begins to come to full fruition because of Beth and because of her influence on him. It’s no accident that Beth told Daryl that he had to stay who he was and then that Negan demands Daryl relinquish that. This moment for Daryl was set up way back in S4.  We see some other really interesting developments for Daryl in the remainder of S7 after this moment. The first is Daryl going from community to community. I think this is a bit symbolic of Daryl trying to find his place in the world. Sort of an illustration of the fact that he will have to do so eventually. The second thing is that Daryl gets a goodbye with C@rol. In 7.10 Daryl specifically confronts C@rol about not saying goodbye. Per the actors this was approached with Daryl acting like a child. I believe the reason TPTB wrote these scenes this way was to show Daryl resolving some very important emotional issues. Daryl never gets to say goodbye to those that he loves. He lost his mom, Merle, and Beth all without a goodbye. These scenes with C@rol are important because Daryl gets his goodbye with an important figure in his life whom he has a lot of love for. The scenes were about Daryl letting go of that little boy part of himself that is always left behind. Daryl is left behind at the Kingdom but by the end of the episode he is taking control of his destiny and finally starting to act like a leader. His goodbye with C@rol was part of this transformation. Thirdly we have Daryl’s interactions with Maggie at the Hilltop. In S6 Daryl was wildly emotional and irrational. It’s what prompted a lot of his rash decision making. It is Maggie who finally calls Daryl back to himself and back to recognizing that he has to make purposeful choices. Being a leader is about seeing the bigger picture and making decisions based on that. Maggie reminds Daryl of that when she asks him to help her fight. Would he have loved to have killed that Savior in the basement absolutely and in S6 he would have but Maggie reminds him that sometimes you have to fight smarter than that. Daryl is finally able to step back and take a more long term view of the situation. The final thing we see in Daryl’s leadership development arc is the scenes with Dwight and Rick at the ASZ.  It is subtle but very obvious that everyone else in TF steps back and allows Daryl to decide what to do with Dwight. Tara is even egging Daryl on to kill Dwight a rather poorly constructed attempt by the writers to show us that Daryl has changed how he thinks. S6 Daryl absolutely would have killed him right there and then but post Maggie Daryl recognizes that he needs to focus on the bigger picture of the war and that Dwight is going to be part of that. Even with Tara’s encouragement he does not follow his heart. He later tells Rick that he is going to kill Dwight showing the audience that his decision was not about mercy or anything else it was about big picture thinking for the coming war. He still despises Dwight and plans to kill him but as a leader he recognizes that his emotions must take a back seat to the greater good of defeating Negan and he can possibly use Dwight to help do that.

These are all huge developments for Daryl and illustrate his trajectory towards a leadership role on the show. I think it’s clear that Daryl made some huge leaps development wise towards becoming a leader in S7 and I think we will continue to see that trend develop in S8 as Daryl plays a key role in taking down the Saviors and Negan.  I’ve long been of the opinion that Daryl will take on a leading role at the Sanctuary following Negan being deposed. I suppose they could adhere to the comics and put Dwight in charge but I think some of what they had Dwight do in the television series has made him irredeemable in the long term. I think they will write him on a redemption arc but I don’t believe he will be redeemed in anyway but through his own death. Being that Negan will be around for the long term I think it would be hard for the writers to keep two characters that morally corrupt interesting to the audience without some real writing gymnastics.  So I think they will keep Negan in the story and write Dwight out on a redemption arc. That would position Daryl to take over leading the Saviors and keeping them in line for Rick. The other interesting thing that the writers have done with the Saviors is that overall they’ve made them a pretty likeable group with a few exceptions. The writers have painted a picture where most of the people that are part of the Savior’s group are there by circumstance and because they are trying to survive not because they are morally corrupt bullies. Negan certainly has his henchmen but most of his people don’t appear inclined towards violence. So if Daryl is positioned to take over as the leader of the Saviors then he will need to be balanced. Every one of the leaders of the major groups has someone that balances them as a leader. For example Rick has Michonne, Maggie appears like she will have Jesus, King Ezekiel appears like he will have C@rol, and therefore Daryl should have a person as well.  We’ve already been shown Daryl’s other half and balance way back in S4. So it will be interesting to see how that plays out in the larger story.

So my final point in all of this is to talk about the way music is used on the show. We’ve seen music used to help people find closure (think Tye and Sasha) , we’ve seen the absence of music indicate that an arc has come to a close through a characters death (Herschel, Tye), and we’ve seen situations where a character has died and their arc is ongoing so the theme music plays.  For reference sake the main cast members who have died since S4 are Herschel, Beth, Tye, Abe, Glenn, and Sasha.  Of those six people three got silence in their credits and three did not. I waffled on Glenn for quite a while because he dies in a flash back in 7.1 and there was no silence in 7.1 and I wanted to attribute the silence in 6.16 to both Abe and Glenn but I no longer think that was the case. Abe got silent credits and Glenn did not. So examining that idea Herschel, Tye, and Abe got some variation or other of closing credits that did not include the theme song. Beth, Glenn, and Sasha all had the theme song play during the closing credits of an episode where they died. So the question would then be why the variation. Do Beth, Glenn, and Sasha deserve less respect than the other three characters. Did someone in the editing room forget the pattern between 6.16 and 7.1 or was there a reason for why the theme song plays in the closing credits?

So I’ve come up with a new theory about the closing credits and the theme song and it’s this. When a main cast character dies and their arc comes to a close and/or marks the completion of a section of the story there is silence in the credits. For example when a death causes a dramatic shift in the story itself closing one chapter and opening another there is silence in the credits. For example when Herschel died in 4.8 it marked not only the completion of Herschel’s arc but also the end of the prison era. There was a dramatic shift in the story at that point in time. The silence at the end of 4.8 was a way of honoring both Herschel and his contribution to the story and also the completion of the prison chapter of the whole story. The writers then go on to honor Herschel with the goodbye Beth and Daryl give him in the funeral home’s graveyard.  We see this pattern displayed several more times. Abe’s death for example was about the completion of his personal arc and also it marked the closing of a chapter for TF. Abe’s death was about sacrifice and also about the end of TF thinking they were invincible. Abe dying the way that he did set off a chain reaction that simultaneously broke Rick and Sasha and if Negan had stopped there he probably would have gained TF’s compliance at least for a little while.  Glenn’s death however, was too much for team family to absorb. Killing Glenn as well as Abe was the trigger that lit the resistance. S7 began a new chapter where everything that happened from that point forward became about rising up and fighting back. That was why they separated Abe and Glenn’s deaths the way they did. Glenn was the heart of TF and as Maggie’s monologue indicated in 7.16 the whole reason they all ended up together in the first place. He was the glue and fighting back and standing up against Negan became about honoring Glenn. The same thing can be said about Sasha’s death. Her sacrifice was about giving TF a chance and it became even more fuel for the resistance which is why you see both Sasha and Glenn memorialized in the s7 finale. Their stories are not over. Their influence on their loved ones will be felt going into S8. When those stories conclude (when Negan is deposed) then there will be silence in the closing credits marking the completion of yet another chapter in TF’s story.

The interesting thing about this idea is that if the theme music plays it seems to indicate that a characters influence is going to continue on the show. For example Abe had silence in his credits indicating that his influence on the show ended with his death. His death itself and also Tyrese’s for that matter were the triggers for Sasha’s actions and for that reason their influences on the show ended with Sasha.  They each received absolute closure for their characters as well as explanations for what they were thinking and what prompted them to take the actions that they did. Sasha’s flashbacks of Abe in 7.16 gave the audience a deeper understanding of what led to his sacrifice in 6.16. Sasha and Glenn’s deaths did not receive silent credits because their impacts on the story are still reverberating as their sacrifices are the fuel to TF’s fight against Negan. Sasha for example created really interesting connections to Rosita and Eugene in the final couple of episodes of S7. I could see one of those characters having a huge impact on Negan’s downfall because of Sasha’s impact on them and that helping to wrap up the Negan arc and at that time silent credits would roll because the theme or chapter that Glenn and Sasha’s death fueled would finally close. The interesting thing about this idea is that Beth also had theme music play at the end of her “death” episode indicating her influence on the theme of the show wasn’t over yet. If the music box was a symbol of Beth then we’ve seen it pop up several times since her death including in 5.10, 5.16, and it was related to the scenes in 7.16. Whereas Sasha and Glenn’s deaths have become about TF standing up and fighting for what is right Beth’s “death” triggered leadership arcs for Rick, Maggie, and Daryl. We’ve seen two of those three people achieve their leadership roles. Beth’s arc will not end until Daryl does as well. TF deposing Negan and securing the Sanctuary will be the final piece of the puzzle to TF finally securing themselves a new home. AL said way back in S5 that the interesting thing about the decision to go to Virginia was that it was done as a way to honor Beth. Beth’s death thematically became about leadership and home. The music box played in 5.10 when Aaron arrived to inform TF that he had good news. Beth is the Coda Gimple told us that himself. Whatever end Gimple has planned for her arc. Whatever way he plans on wrapping it up and giving it the same finality we saw with Herschel, Tye, and Abe it will play out with TF finally securing their home once and for all and with Daryl assuming the leadership role he is destined for. Daryl achieving his role as a leader is inextricably entwined with Beth as we saw in S4. Her influence on his arc will culminate with him finding his place in the world. Going all the way back to 4.1 there is the scene where Zach is talking to Beth about going on the run to the Big Spot. Zach says to Beth something along the lines of “Are you going to say goodbye” to which she responds “Nope” and Daryl then observes “S’like a romance novel”.  This is the pattern for Daryl’s romance novel right here and he tells it to us himself. Daryl has lost the most important people in his life without a goodbye and losing people is his greatest fear and most deeply held hurt. What kind of romance novel would Daryl Dixon write but one about a girl who refused to say goodbye no matter the obstacles she had to overcome to keep her promise of “I am not gonna leave you”.

[standbyphoenix]

River Phoenix, NATURE BOY by Dan Yakir (Sky Magazine, 1989)

On location in Tacoma, Washington, where he's filming I Love You To Death with William Hurt, Kevin Kline and, oddly, Tracey Ullman. River Phoenix, at 18, is the perfect, quiet professional. An Oscar nomination for Running On Empty, in which he, coincidentally, plays the son of 60's radicals, hasn't made him any more impressed by Hollywood. In fact, he lives on the opposite side of the continent in Florida.

The veteran of The Mosquito Coast, in which he played Harrison Ford's alternately confused and supportive son, and of the coming of age stories, Stand By Me and Jimmy Reardon. Phoenix was born by natural childbirth in Oregon and named after the river of life in Herman Hesse's Siddartha. His parents were then missionaries for an organization called The Children of God and befitting the hippie legacy that inspired his upbringing (and that of his brother Leaf, and sisters Rainbow, Liberty and Summer), he is a vegetarian, an incurable romantic and something of an idealist.

You grew up under rather unique circumstances. Do you feel different, enclosed in your own little universe? [Chuckles] "That's something I'm afraid of. I don't want to separate myself from the rest of the world. If the world's not doing too good, I'm a part of it - I'll be happy to take the blame. I'm along for the ride. But yeah. I feel different in a lot of ways because my beliefs aren't very typical. In fact a lot of people I talk to disagree with me."

What do they disagree about? "About the nuclear arms race, prejudice in South Africa. A lot of people I hang out with agree, but it's obviously not of universal appeal; otherwise things would change. But I don't think things can change overnight; a slow evolution has to take place. One of my beliefs is about harmlessness to animals. I don't believe in eating meat or using any animal by-products or contributing to suppressing animals - or people either". 

"One thing I'd like to do when I have the money is to buy thousands of acres of Brazilian rainforest and make a national park, so no one can bulldoze it an put up a McDonald's. I guess people find security in a Big Mac, but that's our oxygen! In fact, McDonald's claim they don't use cattle reared on cleared rainforest land. And it's a chicken shit approach - the mass slaughtering of animals."

You sound like an idealist, but we're living in a materialistic world. "Yeah, I try to stay away from that. I don't feel that I am attached to material things, though I have all the comforts that a lot of people don't have. I have the modern conveniences of a blender, a toilet, a shower. A lot of people have to do their thing in the gutter."

But you have much more than that at this point! "At this point, yes I have an automobile, a nice guitar - actually, a few of them, but they are not really extravagant. But, you know, up to three years ago, we, this family, were worried about paying the rent. It was after Jimmy Reardon that we first had financial stability. That's when we bought a car that wasn't old or used. One of our biggest dreams is to own a ranch, to have a base camp, where the kids can grow up in a nice setting. But right now we don't really have enough money to buy the place we want.

I'm not into the whole clothes thing: I live pretty simply. I feel there are different stages in one's life, and I might at one point decide to devote myself to a more spiritual road, giving up all material possessions ... Just moving out to the jungle some place and living like an ape man for a while. That's something that fascinates me."

You've done that, haven't you? "Not really, not out of choice. And it was more like a desperate situation. My parents did that, though. They dropped out in the late 60's and lived by faith throughout the 70's."

How difficult was that period for you? Did you feel resigned to being there with them or did you rebel? "No, no, no, we were always really tight and together in the beginning, you're just born into that reality and you accept it. I'm very thankful for my early childhood and growing up in the situation that I did in South America living around people who were really humble with a lifestyle that called for a lot of faith, without money. You couldn't be an asshole in that situation. You had to work with the people to survive. I learned a lot being very young, and I hope I don't lose that. Obviously I've lost a lot of my innocence. I was very naive when I first came to the States, and when I first came to Hollywood. But I guess I could look back years from now and see myself as very naive. It's all relative."

It's a strange coincidence that in your new movie, Running On Empty, you play a kid who has a deep conflict of interest with his parents. In Little Nikita, too, there's an almost unbridgeable gap between your character and his parents. "Yeah, a victim. That's something I want to get away from. But the two movies are really different. Running On Empty is about ex-radicals who blew up a napalm lab during the Vietnam War, and since then they've been running from the law, not for selfish reasons, but because of the kids - they wanted to raise us themselves, not to have us grow up in foster homes or in an institution. The thing is that we've had to live completely underground, moving often, using different names - always having to lie, in order to live a whole life, they have to lie for Danny, my character, and he has to lie to himself, suppressing his true feelings."

How did you manage to protect your individuality within your own family? "We all look completely different from each other and we all have our distinct things. Leaf was the family clown, the comedian - very witty and smart. Rainbow was the older sister and trend setter. Mom had to work a lot, so she took her place. I played the guitar ... I went off to my room a lot and had a real goofy side to me, really corny - laughing about stupid things, making fart noises with my mouth. A lot of inside jokes. Liberty was always the most physical, like an acrobat - nimble, strong, slender, a really beautiful girl. And Summer was the youngest, the baby of the family, with big brown eyes and blonde hair. She looks WASPy. Liberty and Rainbow have more of an ethnic look - Israeli or Italian."

There's never been rivalry among you? "No. We've been through a lot. We're a very emotional family, very expressive and out with our feelings. Lately, we've been trying to communicate without yelling all at once. It can be real havoc, but we're getting it down to a science, finally!"

How open is your family about sex? "Very open. I've always had a fair start on topics like sex. We talk about a lot of the taboos that so many families don't bring up and if they do, the go, 'Honey, I hope you're using birth control' and the answer is, 'Mom!' That's as far as they take it."

How does it affect you when people consider you a sex symbol? "To be honest, I really don't think about it. We moved out of Los Angeles to Central Florida and its really nice to get away from the publicity parties - not that I ever went; even in town, I was always an outsider. I didn't hang out with the movie star crowd. It's just so phoney and unreal and pretentious. I never fit in anyway...

"I guess I could play the role, but it doesn't appeal to me. When you ask what it does to my ego, I feel lucky that I don't think like that. I don't fantasize about them fantasizing about me. I don't even know that they do. The only thing that reminds me are the fan letters that I get and I get so many of them that I can't answer them; my aunt's started a fan service. Sometimes when I walk into a local store to get a bottle of orange juice and see myself on the cover of a teen magazine, I open it out of curiosity and cringe - what they write about me is so scary, so eerie and unreal. They just strip you of your originality. The sex symbol - that's what they're after and that's what they try to build around you."

Do you feel blessed, having more than your fair share of intelligence, look, and opportunities? "Yeah, I do feel blessed, I have a really good, solid background. Even when we went through hard times, we were honest about it. Our parents have treated us as equals. Summer talks and has a say just as much as my father - not that he's a wimp; it's just very equal. It's a pioneering effort, where we all concentrate on a common goal. I remember being in Venezuela and my dad was saying that we needed a home, a ranch, some property, and once we had that, we could do a lot of good for the world - build homes for the homeless children and for people with drug and psychological problems. Then it extends into the animal thing too. I feel that my family is very aware of the world and we would like to contribute to it and not abuse a position that we're lucky enough to be in."

How do you express anger? It can be taxing to be in a positive state of mind all the time... "I'm very spontaneous. We all harbour resentment and can try to contain it just out of courtesy for others. But at times things can trigger it, and then you're off. I'm kind of a neutral person in that, I don't get offended easily. I'm not a jealous or manipulative type, but I can be defensive at times. I guess that's when I might get angry - when people poke at my insecurities or reveal something that I feel I don't want to talk about."

What insecurities might these be? "Everyone has them, even if you're Paul Newman. When you're classified as a good-looking young man or young lady, you're under pressure to live up to that. That's something I don't care about really. I used to, when I was younger. I was looking at my hair and was very worried about how others viewed me and if I was good enough. I realize now that you can't mould an image or try to be something. Your work speaks for itself."

In Running On Empty, you play a kid who finds salvation in your own music. You write your own music. What do you write about? "Different themes, from mother earth to personality conflicts. I call it progressive ethereal folk rock, it's my own little world. I now have a band and last year we played eastern colleges in the U.S. But I'm not thinking about albums. I'd just like to play live and develop personal involvement with the audience."

You've said that you attach yourself more to people and feelings than to places and things. "Yeah, and memories too. My lifestyle is strange because I don't have a home. We've always moved around, so my only reference is the family, not a neighborhood or a school. My life is very spontaneous and floating."

You studied karate. Do you consider yourself a very physical person? "No, I'm probably more of a mental person than physical. I've probably got more of a musician's build than a gymnast's. Recently, I joined a gym and I was doing really good, feeling muscles that I'd never felt before - my arms are really skinny - and then there was this flu virus going around town and I got it! That was it for the health kick."

Do you express physical affection freely? "I'm very affectionate with friends, but at times I can be very reserved and very inward-looking, with a blank expression on my face. I could feel great in my mind, but people might think I'm depressed because I'm not showing emotion. I try not to be aggressive, but sometimes you just want to wrestle."

What kind of a relationship did you have with Harrison Ford on the Mosquito Coast? "Harrison was down to earth. I've read that he's cold, but he's actually very warm, it's just that in his position you have so many phoney people trying to dig at you that you've got to have a shield up. He's a very, very nice man, wise and practical. His ideals are very practical, logical. I learnt a lot from him. The biggest thing about Harrison is that he makes acting look so easy, he's so casual and so... sturdy. He seems like he'd be a really good dad. We dealt with each other on a very honest level. I understood where he was coming from, and I think he understood where I was coming from."

And in Indiana Jones? Was he as supportive? "Oh, yeah. He was great. He was there to help me when I needed it. I would just look at him and would not mimic it, but interpret it younger. Mimicking is a terrible mistake that, a lot of people do when they play someone younger; it doesn't interpret."

Was it fun for you doing the movie? "It was thrilling! I did a lot of the stunts because I felt so much of the character and what he had to do was physical. It would have been lying to have someone else do the stunts."

What exactly do you do in the picture? "It's all non-stop action: running and jumping, twisting and turning, tumbling, picking, finding, keeping, saving from bad guys - all that kind of stuff. He's on and under a circus train, doing stuff. It's a very small part - only 10 minutes in the beginning of the movie. But I really enjoyed it."

And I Love You To Death? "It's about a pizzeria owner who runs around with women, until his wife - with the help of his cooks - tries to kill him. They try five times and he survives and they get together again. It's based on a true story. I play Devo, a cook who's just very mystical, into Eastern philosophy. I'm the middle man who helps arrange the extreme acts that happen in the movie."

Did you become friends with Kiefer Sutherland when you did Stand By Me? "I worked with him probably for a total of four days and my impression of him was that he was a very centered guy, very into character, so I can't even say I know him. He was very smooth ... he was that guy! "I remember being with the guys and feeling very destructive. I was taking dirt clods and bombarding his car and we just totally wrecked it. The other guys dared me to do it, so I did. They knew it was Kiefer's car: I didn't. When I found out, I was scared for my life." (Chuckles.)

What happened? "I saw him at the restaurant, and he goes, 'Hey, River, come over here,' and I was choked up. But I just went over and said, 'Kiefer, I'm really sorry .' And he goes, 'No, no, I'm just saying how're you doing.' But I wanted to confess and he said, 'Don't worry about it, it's a rental car, they washed it off. I was nervous, because I didn't know if he was going to pull out the switchblade and slit my throat or what."

The whimsical side of River... "There's a side of me that's selfish."

But wouldn't denying that side also be something of an injustice? "Yeah, but still, in this business, man, you've got to be very careful that it doesn't get out of hand. I don't want to get so lost in thinking about me and talking about me that all the time in interviews. It's so nice to unwind and just look at other things and get out of yourself. It's hard to detach myself from myself without neglecting myself. You know what I mean? I don't want to get in to the habit of thinking about my career because when it comes down to it, it's not really that important. I could die tomorrow and the world would go on!"