#Once again paralleling stancy and mileven | Explore Tumblr Posts and Blogs

kaypeace21 · 3 years

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Stranger things analysis of the phrase"only love makes you that crazy and that damn stupid."

(And how it’s applied to familial love, romantic love , self love and even unrequited love .)

As far as how i segmented this essay. First things first. Let’s discuss

Steve’s unrequited love for Nancy & crush on Robin (and how the phrase has been applied to him).

In s3 he tells Robin in the mall’s bathroom he was in love with Nancy. And later in the bathroom tries romantically confessing to Robin (where he’s rejected).Narratively what’s interesting about this location is- the bathroom is also where Nancy rejects steve a season prior (aka Nancy saying she didn’t love Steve/their relationship is bs ). And the bathroom is where we first see stancy interact in s1e1 because it was the place Steve suggested him and Nancy meet to kiss. I think (these bathroom scenes of) his positive reaction to romantic rejection in s3 vs his negative reaction in s2 is evidence of his new found-SELF LOVE. Even if rejected via romantic love- he can cope better now cause now he loves himself.

In s1e1, Nancy in the bathroom calls Steve “crazy” and an “idiot”(which is synonymous with stupid). She specifies he’s crazy to sneak out to see her (and what do you know-Mike sneaks out to find Will-and they even exchange glances).COUGH parallel.

In Nancy’s room -Nancy once again uses “crazy” and “idiot” to describe his romantic feelings towards her (showing this phrasing was intentional by the writers). And later in s2 Steve essentially begs nancy to just ‘pretend’ to be ‘stupid’ (in love with him) . As he tells Nancy to just be ‘stupid’ in their couples costumes for the party(name dropping “stupid “ 4 times). And at said party-is where Nancy angrily throws the ‘stupid’ phrase back at him (since she never loved him-and other reasons relating to her trauma with Barb).

We see this later culminate in the infamous “bullshit” bathroom scene at said party (which is the equivalent of Nancy saying she doesn’t love him).And what do you know in s3- what other pairing is called “bullshit”.

Not to be crude but bathrooms + b*llshit relationships. I mean stancy made out in the bathroom in s1 & in s1 mileven had an almost kiss in the bathroom too. But I digress -let’s talk about Steve’s other unrequited romance and how...

The phrase “stupid” & “crazy”are in the s3 Stobin and Mileven confessions (AKA unrequited love)

Both El/Robin have bandages on their legs and both pairings sit together (on the floor) during their confessions- and are interrupted by Dustin (Dustin also interrupted the mileven almost kiss in the bathroom as another parallel for bathroom stobin). And in both straight baits- they use the terms “stupid/crazy” but subvert the expectation of it being romantic. .When Mike & Steve use the terms “stupid/crazy” to the girls it’s shown not to be mutual on the girls’ ends.When Mike and Steve try confessing to the girls they both use the word “crazy/stupid”. But when Mike says “it makes you crazy” El doesn’t get it and says “what makes you crazy?” and Robin looks uncomfortable when Steve confesses to her and he says “it’s crazy”. She then rejects steve and says she was obsessed with his “stupid hair” only because she was actually interested in Tammy (not him). Meanwhile El says in that same season “there’s more to life than STUPID boys” (aka more to life than romance with Mike) and in s3 multiple characters state “ El’s NOT STUPID”( specifically before mike claims he loves El/ and after Will says “you’re ruining everything to swap spit for some stupid girl?). Cause El doesn’t love Mike (similar to Robin toward Steve). In s2- even when El left the cabin to see mike she proclaims she’s “not stupid”. It’s not romantic on her end (even if she thinks she loves him romantically).

And of course- the song “the first i love you” only plays 2x in s3. once when Robin rejects Steve’s confession (and comes out as gay). And one more time when El says she loves mike and he doesn’t kiss back, or say ‘i love you’ back. Cause Robin /Mike are both gay .

How these confessions differ from Byler (and how byler relates to the “stupid”/”crazy” phrase).

El in s3 was also confused by Mike romantic line to her: “they do say it (love) makes you crazy” so she immediately asks “what makes you crazy?” But, in s2, when Mike asks Will, “We’ll go crazy together, right? Will immediately responds back “yeah, crazy together.” And in s3, after their fight (about Mike’s romantic relationship with El). Will runs to castle byers, looks at the Halloween pic where they both said they’d go ‘crazy together’ (and rips the photo in ½-splitting Mike/Will apart), and cries and calls himself “stupid” (4x). Because (like he admitted to Mike during their fight) he felt stupid for thinking they’d never get girlfriends and be together for the rest of their lives. Will (unlike El ,who thinks “there’s more to life than stupid boys” and is “not stupid”) wasn’t “pretending” to be a “stupid teenager” (in love) like Nancy or El was. He is a “stupid teenager” in love. And it’s actually reciprocated cause they’re “crazy TOGETHER.”

And in s1 when flo said this phrase -in relation to jancy she made the incorrect assumption Jonathan attacked steve for spray painting those insults about Nancy. When in fact -Jonathan told Nancy they should leave and the insults were ‘ not worth it’ (to get into a fight about). He and Nancy were walking away until Steve insulted his mother and brother (aka familial love is what made Jonathan ‘crazy’ and ‘stupid’).

Flo assumed Jonathan was ‘stupid’ and went ‘crazy’ attacking a guy who insulted Nancy cause he ‘loved’ her (romantically). But ... do you know who in that same season got into a fight with someone who badmouthed their love interest- Mike. Mike attacks Troy for insulting Will- aka fitting the definition of ‘crazy’ and ‘stupid’(through Flo’s romantic angle). Just shows you heteronormativity- if Will was willow (people would have made the connection a long time ago and saw it as romantic).

And although i do take st social media with a grain of salt- st’s instagram saying Nancy is “crazy for the truth (journalism)”. Could show her 1 TRUE LOVE has always been JOURNALISM rather than jonathan or Steve. In the fact it’s always integral to her character: in s1 looking for Will&Barb, s2 finding justice for Barb, s3 looking into the chemical/rat story (and being called ‘nancy drew’ and being encouraged by Karen to pursue her dreams of getting stories published in newspapers).

Jonathan tells Nancy it’s “stupid” to get fired over her story-later Neil says what Nancy did was “crazy” and fires her.

If you don’t count that misinterpreted quote from Flo to Nancy (in s1). There isn’t 1 couple that has been described as BOTH “stupid” and “crazy” (in a MUTUAL way) except byler. Like even L*max. Dustin calls him “stupid” for spying on Max and a season later Max is teaching El “there’s more to life than stupid boys.” The closest comparison would probably be Boyce. In the same season byler says they’ll go “crazy together”. Bob says he feels “crazy” (in a romantic sense) and Joyce says “me too”.In essence-both pairings are ‘crazy together’.

He even says he feels like a “teenager”.Which could have been in contrast to (in that same season) Steve telling Nancy to ‘pretend’ to be “STUPID (in love) teenagers” with him . You could interpret this as Boyce pretending to be in love like stancy OR boyce contrasting stancy in the fact it’s actually genuine love- making them feel like ‘crazy (in love) teenagers.’ While ironically, the actual teens have to pretend to be ‘stupid’(in love).

i fall in the latter camp who actually thinks Joyce loved Bob. But agree to disagree.

Even when Hopper asked her out she was wishing she was with Bob. The s3 script spells that out quite clearly (at least to me)...

(Not to mention in this scene Joyce watches cheers (Ep “rescue me”) and jopper is compared to Dianne and fraiser. Diane says as joyce is listening to the tv “He (fraiser) had a couple of sips of Chianti tonight and asked me to marry him.” At dinner Hopper orders a chianti while being stood up by Joyce. And Dianne and Frasier don’t marry and are also not endgame, cause she ditches him at the alter (like how Joyce ditched Hopper with his chianti). The other ep of cheers she watches in s3 was with Bob , and was called “ the rebound part 2″ in reference to Fraiser (aka Hopper). He’s just a rebound to Bob-why she’s thinking of Bob after Hopper asked her out.)

Also, byler & boyce parallel. Both Mike and Bob are unathletic, smart, love comics, into rubic cubes, computers and are/were leaders of the av club. They are the only 2 to not treat Will ‘different’- and would do anything to protect their loved ones. And they also had feelings for Byers in childhood, and tried to give their Byers normalcy (despite them not being a ‘normal family’). They purposely display, and have Will -mirror Joyce- and Mike -mirror Bob- in multiple shots, throughout s2 (like couples). Mike and Bob also both have in s2 a ‘eureka’ scene where they run around the Byers house (as others follow) and they explain the plan to their crew to save someone . Both plans involving the caves. Also Bob makes a goonies ref in s2 specifically to Mike (and in that film he played ‘Mikey’).

But, also Bob even said he was “a lot like Will” when he “was his age.” And they have both Bob and Will record their love interests on video- As bob says “it’s the future”.

Being “crazy” and “stupid” for Familial/Platonic love

Besides the earlier example of Jonathan going ‘crazy’ and acting ‘stupid’ over someone insulting his family. We still haven’t talked about El and Joyce. In s1 Dustin says about El “she’s our friend and she’s crazy.” Aka El is crazy for platonic love. While, In s2 El says she’s “not stupid” for Mike.But she does love Hopper. so later Hopper and El breakdown saying they’re both “stupid” .

While joyce in s1 tells both Jonathan & Lonnie she doesn’t care if she looks “crazy” she’ll do anything to get Will back. She specifies to Jonathan that Will called to her and she heard his voice .so (despite seeing his body) she’s going to bring him home-even if everyone thinks she’s “crazy”. The very next scene is Mike explaining he heard Will’s voice (and that he’s alive) to a disbelieving Lucas who says they saw his body (and to Dustin who thinks it may be Will’s ghost). And both Joyce/mike say that “he’s out there” and they have to bring him home. I.E Mike is also “crazy” for Will. HOWEVER,mileven is also paralleled to Joyce saying she may be “crazy” but she’d keep the lights up till the day she died if there was a chance Will was out there. Similar to Mike keeping the blanket fort up in case El was alive in s2 (and in s1 calling himself “stupid’ when smashing the fort in s1/thinking he heard her in s2).

Some may interpret this as then Mike being “crazy” in a familial way to both of them ONLY (and not romantic). But i think s1 has that ambiguity there on purpose-since in s1 Steve is called “crazy” for sneaking in to Nancy’s. While at the same time Mike sneaks out to find Will (and as they both do so- Steve & Mike exchange glances at one another). Paralleling Mike to being “crazy” for Will in a romantic sense. The same can be said about the Flo phrase in s1- she means it in the romantic sense to Jancy (but it doesn’t fit the truth and is more familial for Jon but possibly more romantic for the other byers/wheeler pairing). What about Mike who hits Troy- for making fun of Will for being gay? should that topic of bullying (Will’s se*uality) be alluding to something romantic later on between Mike and Will? BUT in contrast- in s1 Lucas /dustin say El is like Mike’s “sister “ and “cousin” and El asks if Mike will be her brother, s2-3 Hopper/el and mileven share numerous parallels (list here), and in s2 mileven were also paralled to luke & leia (siblings who kissed before realizing they were siblings). Meanwhile in s1 - byler is paralleld to han & leia (talked about it here). The subversion would be instead of the usual trope- of saying he loves his gay bff like a sibling (he friendzones the main heroine instead). He feels “crazy” for El his straight love interest in the familial sense (but he doesn’t love his gay bff in a familial way -even if for most of s3 he was unaware of these facts.)

More credence to this theory is the fact LATER In s2- Joyce and Bob use the term “crazy” while dating /right after they kiss (illustrating Flo’s romantic interpretation). Especially given the byler/boyce parallels.And the fact it illustrates that in the show - 1 character (ex joyce) can be described as “crazy” for both forms of love .The same season byler exchange the “crazy together” line. Another byers exchanges the phrase “crazy” with their s.o. And in s3 Mike says “it/blank” (romantic love) makes you crazy” (to his love interest El). Saying “you know the phrase” (cough Flo’s phrase from s1)” blank (love) makes you crazy”. So from Mike’s point of view (specifically) the verbal expression of being “crazy” is romantic aka like ‘crazy in love’. Making the fact Mike asked Will a season prior- to go “crazy together” (to which Will agrees to) all the more suspicious. Especially when his supposed endgame gf- says “what makes you crazy?” And doesn’t reciprocate the romantic sentiment behind his words .

#stranger things #steve harrington #nancy wheeler #byler #will byers #el hopper #mike wheeler #joyce byers #jim hopper #robin buckley #jonathan byers #bob newby

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kaypeace21 · 3 years

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I believe that byler is an endgame

but why would they spend 3 seasons winding up with mileven?

People REALLY need to pay attention to the shows the Duffers cited as huge inspirations to them. Cheers,dawsons creek, freak &geeks did exactly what the Duffers are doing (and the Duffers said these shows inspired them)

. Cheers for over 5 seasons built up the pairing of sam and Dianne- had them break up in the s5 finale and then in the last 2 eps of the 11th season have them get back together and once again break up explaining for the 100th time they were wrong for each other and brought out the worst in eachother . Cheers would build up multiple pairings (Frasier /Lilith (s4-11/broke up in s11) , sam/Dianne (s 1-11, broke up in s11 permanently) , rebecca /sam (s8-10) Rebecca/robin (s8-9) -these pairings lasted for multiple seasons and they all broke up! They built pairings up for multiple seasons but showed throughout the show why those pairing in cheers could never work out in the long term. The same Thing happened with almost every pairing in Dawson’s creek (they’d build up multiple pairings up -sometimes for multiple seasons- sprinkle in good but also dysfunctional aspects of those relationships- and then break them apart for good ).

Also in Dawson’s creek 2 characters (a rich girl and poor guy with daddy issues) date and breakup- but both of their gay brothers get together and are endgame instead of them (cough jancy vs byler). One of the gay guys (the rich one with the book smart sis) even dated the main girl (Joey) for a while before admitting he was gay and that he was in denial (while dating the main girl for more than a season ). In D.C even the main guy(Dawson) / girl (Joey) don’t end up being endgame (despite teasing it for all 5 seasons) . They did this with a lot of couples in the show. Honestly, the Duffers pretty much borrowed this idea of showing pairings with issues and breaking them up -but toned down how long they’d bait them . Like 11seasons of showing dysfunctional couples date -ick. And Dawson’s creek ... my god it had a literal love octogon/ love webs (so many love squares/pentagons/ and on and off relationships). The 1 adult couple broke up and I’m not exaggeration 4 times, and Dawson got back with 2 of his girlfriends like so many times. And ugh I’d say each (of the 4-5) main characters dated at least 4 people -and each of those relationships lasted for like 20+ eps each... and then after all that build up -break up ). That’s not even including the people the main 5 or so characters would date for like 5-6 eps . Thank god it was toned down compared to Dawson’s creek or cheers. i can’t imagine the frustration watching those shows during its airing 😂

Freaks & geeks (set in the 80s)was also inspo.14 y old Sam who is bullied and called “homo” “queer” etc throughout the whole series - he also obsesses over a cheerleader girl for the whole series and in the second to last ep of the series- they finally start dating and he realizes they have nothing in common and says “it’s boring. all we ever do is makeout.She likes nothing i like. We can’t talk to eachother. We never have fun.” And he admits he only keeps dating her cause everyone would call him “crazy” to not date her. sam and her are also said to be “from different planets” and “different species” just like mileven in s3 lol. The gf of sam also says before they dated she saw him ‘like a sister’ (like El asking mike if he’d be her brother in s1, before they date). And after this sibling comment various characters -encouraged the couple and said they would be good together (before they dated-like what we’ve seen in st with mileven and other ships ).Sam eventually decides to not cave to peer pressure- and breaks up with her. Meanwhile sam’s sis (is a straight A student, who is initially into a popular guy and starts hanging with the cool kids). After getting over the first (popular) guy, she later dates another guy- a music-obsessed-stoner-guy with a cruddy dad...and she breaks up with him (like jancy?). That couple was even called ‘romeo & juliet’ before they broke up-similar to mileven being called “romeo & juliet’ before their breakup. plus r&j were never in love... just like mileven.

All 3 shows had the main guy/girl date but not end up with eachother in the end . And both shows -would build up several pairings that looked like endgame but would show faults in those relationships and would have them breakup (because those pairings were never that healthy together). Which I believe is what they’re doing with jancy, jopper, mileven and lumax (explained in my analysis here all the evidence for why I don’t think they don’t end up together). I mean there’s many reasons I listed in the analysis but you think it’s a coincidence - jancy, lumax, mileven , and Steve/rando girl who rejected him in s3-all incorportated spying on their love interest ? you think the duffers think that’s good to have all these romantic pairings spy on eachother? When in the show they canonically have the us gov (villains) spy via phone taps, and hidden recorders, and cameras? Brenner used El as a spy for his own gain ? they even call the mf a ‘spy’ (which the characters perceive as the main villain)... i don’t think the mf is actually villainous but that’s off topic).The point is narratively equating spying as something ‘wrong’ by characters our main cast of heroes is against. But having that same cast of heroes partaking in spying themselves … specifically on to their romantic partners- and not also showing it as a negative. But romanticizing it? Would be quite hypocritical. And a HUGE narrative oversight.

Also build up?

S1- mileven kiss right after el asks if he’ll be her “friend” or “brother”. Has others compare el to mike’s sibling /cousin. Hint Will is gay . Have hints mike is queer too/ and cares deeply about Will. Constantly mention how el physically resembles Will/a boy. Parallel mileven to ted/Karen who were “never in love”. Have Nancy and mike verbally compare the jancy/stancy love triangle to mileven/byler . And at the end of the season mike writes a story for Will that likens the 2 to han/leia. Flo says about jancy/Jon “ only love makes you that crazy and that damn stupid”. (Which flo wasn’t entirely right about since jon punched Steve for insulting his family- for Jon it was familial love -not romantic love. But put a pin in that phrase)

S2- was pretty much byler season (and mileven barely interact that season). Byler say they’d go “crazy together”. But el’s new catchphrase is she’s “not stupid.” They Compare mileven to luke/leia (siblings that kissed) . Ref ghostbusters and parallel byler to the romantic pairing of Dana /venkman (but have el just be a ghost and mike a ghost buster which isn’t romantic but the opposite) .parallel mileven to hopper/el. Have el spy on mike, el hurt a stranger cause of unhealthy jealousy, have mileven dance to a song about a possessive spying/Stalking ex gf . Throw in mileven burns like “they’re not in love they’re not even from the same planet.” (El being et ref) . Have mike say annoyed “a bond ?! (Scoff) cause you shared nougat?! “ (egos like s1 ) “. Mike saying after knowing max for a week “hate you? I don’t even know you?” (He knew el for a week too so no way he loves her -cause he doesn’t know el , just like max ) . mike even criticizes his friends’ instant attraction to max saying “you haven’t even spoken a word to her.”Dustin saying “ I don’t have to . I mean -look at her.” Which makes it even more suspicious that mike was into a girl who multiple characters said looked like a boy (specifically Will) in s1. Have El watch a soap opera (all my children) and mimic the scene of erica kane and her love interest michael. Which in the soap opera-isn’t endgame, and ended with some stalking after their breakup.

S3- mileven is finally dating : multiple characters (lucas, Will, Hopper, dustin,Max, etc) in the show dislike and verbally complain about them together . In cheers all of sam’s friends hated him dating Dianne and would vocally complain about it (similar to joyce they even clapped/cheered after 1 of their many breakups) . Mike is horrified by the spying(that mileven fans romanticized in s2) , el is happier single and neither is heartbroken over the breakup. They date for 2 eps and then breakup . Mileven being together inhibits El’s character arc from s2 (aka she went from wanting to explore the world and leave the cabin in s2 to see her friends, to ignoring her friends and cutting herself off from the world in order to stay in the cabin all day to make out with mike for 6 months - she would literally lie to her friends about curfew to return to the cabin and kiss mike -going against her ‘friends don’t lie’ mantra from the past 2 seasons too ). Mike canonically doesn’t trust her / doesn’t believe in her ability to make decisions and lies to her and never apologizes for lying. And el doesn’t apologize for spying . They throw in more gay hints of mike & Will. Mileven is called “bullshit” like s2 stancy . And Both pairings in the show kissed a bunch and said “I love you” (but they weren’t endgame). They also contrast s3 mileven scenes to s2 byler scenes and have byler win out. And once again parallel mileven to hopper/el and Karen/ted. As well as paralleling and likening Mileven to stancy in numerous other ways (besides the “bullshit “ line) . They also parallel mileven to stobin (both are straight baits) .They parallel the stobin confession to the mileven one -both confessions have them sitting on the floor, both girls have bandages on their legs, and both confessions are interrupted by dustin. Also both Steve/mike use the terms “crazy & stupid ” to confess to robin/el. But unlike Will who agrees to be “crazy “ with mike .El confused , asks “ what makes you crazy?” And robin says she didn’t have a crush on his “stupid hair”. el even says in reference to mike “there’s more to life than stupid boys.” Showing how el/robin don’t have romantic feelings for the boys-like the flo phrase of s1. Unlike Will who after fighting with mike calls himself “stupid” over and over and rips up the photo of him and mike where they promised to go “crazy together.” Even Steve says in s2 stancy should should “pretend to be stupid teenagers” in love. Emphasis on “pretend”. And when el says she loves mike “the first I love you” plays -the only other time that song plays in s3 is when robin rejects Steve (cause she’s gay.) cough cause mike is gay too.

There’s a lot more in each season (that illustrates mileven was built up -but not as a positive couple but a problematic one that was never was in love to begin with ). But I’m trying to keep this short . You can read this post here where I go in more depth about all of this .

S1-2 builds up the problematic ships (but showed good and bad aspects of their dynamic) . like the spying of jancy, lumax, and mileven or the jealousy. of Hopper in s2. In the s2 finalie they have them kiss or hug/exchange romantic glances. And in S3 we see the after math of this with all the couples officially dating - and they show all the couples issues at the forefront . I already talked about mileven. But, Lumax broke up 6 times (they dated for 6 months- and every month they dated max dumped him ). Jancy fight in the opening of ep 1 and don’t understand each others issues (sexism/poverty-and Jon’s issues with his dad) . And neither supports the other in their passions of journalism & photography.Nancy is also called “nancy drew” who in 1986 (year of s4) before going to college dumps her long term highschool bf (who helped her in many of her past mysteries/novels ). Their relationship was also shown as complex and somewhat dysfunctional because of both parties -before nancy drew dumps him. And (even if not dating like the other pairings) jopper almost go on a date in s3. Joyce was trying to hide the fact she was moving, Hopper was horribly jealous, and all they did was yell and argue.Murray says to joyce regarding hopper “he’s a brute... probably reminds you of a bad relationship” (aka lonnie/Joyce) . They even have Joyce watch a cheers ep- which directly compares jopper to (dianne/Frasier) who weren’t endgame in cheers but a rebound . Hopper /fraiser both drink chianti . Fraiser asks dianne to marry him/Hopper asks Joyce on a date-both women stand them up. Or when Joyce asks Hopper out she calls her self ‘detective byers ‘and Hopper name drops miami vice. Which had an on and off again relationship for several seasons- of the male /female detectives.The relationship faded out as Gina realized they mainly got together when one or both needed someone. Crockett was very protective of Gina, and had some jealousy when Gina was involved in relationships , but was the first one to be there for her when things went wrong. And they realized it was better to not be together romantically. Heck seems like all these couples have negative film/tv parallels... lucas in s2 mentions not liking winston in ghost busters cause he came ‘super late’ (like Max). in s1 disses michael myers (which Max dressed as). And at the end of s3- lumax dress identically to eric/donna from a ep of that 70s shows (in the ep eric/donna were broken up).

(s3 was marketed as the “summer of love” and “summer love” is a euphemism for flings that don’t last.) s4-5 Will probably show good healthy ships/break up the problematic ones from past seasons .

So first 2 seasons focus on the unhealthy ships / and the last 2 seasons focus on healthy ships. S3 the middle season would be considered the turning point -and why none of the popular ships (assumed to be endgame) came off looking that great (compared to how they were presented in s1-2) .

#byler #anti mileven #byeler #stranger things

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kaypeace21 · 4 years

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People seem to misinterpret what I’ve said in the past about mike “projecting his feelings for Will” on to El. So I’ll clarify.

When I say mike is “projecting his romantic feelings” for Will on to el. That doesn’t mean mike doesn’t care about El (at all) as a friend. Or sees El as Will (that’s not even how projection works -or what I’ve said). Although Mike isn’t perfect, he’s naturally empathetic and grateful for all El has done to help him and his friends. And he does see Will & El as 2 different people- despite the romantic projection. And unlike Will, he sees El in a more familial way- rather than romantic (despite him trying to force it to be romantic) .More on that later.Heck, Mike has already incorrectly projected his NON-ROMANTIC emotions on to 3 other characters other than El (it’s a pattern of his to project his feelings about one person on to another)- which yes I’ll also discuss.

I guess I have to specify what projection is -like i’ve already inferred in prior posts .There’s a difference between projecting “feelings” you have for one person on to another VS thinking those 2 people are literally the same person with no differences between those 2 people/or not acknowledging the unique personal relationships you have with both. This misconception is used as a popular counter-argument/strawman argument -rather than just debating the points i’ve made) . Ex) It’s like if you’re anger at your boss- but you can’t yell at them so you (subconscious or otherwise) are (unfairly) angry/irritable to your romantic partner later. It doesn’t mean you literally think your romantic partner and boss are 1 in the same - or there is no distinction between those 2 relationships. The same goes for how Mike views El and Will, despite “projecting” his “romantic feelings for Will” on to El (although Mike does so poorly).

Mike most likely projects his romantic feelings for Will on to El

In s3) he kisses El with a drawing of Will behind her head -that he can look at as he kisses her ... that should be an obvious hint he’s projecting (subconscious or otherwise) .

That’s Will -light brown hair/bowl cut, has fire powers like ‘Will the wise’.There’s also the fact that multiple characters in s1 mistook El for a boy (specifically Will) . Benny saying to El, “trying to steal from me boy?” Another man at Benny’s place mistook her for Will and said she could be “the byers boy... same height”. Hopper tracked El for most of s1 thinking it was Will. Homophobic Troy who harassed mike / talked about Will being gay said about El “ her head’s shaved she doesn’t even look like a girl”, officer callahan said “what’s Will doing with a shaved head?” The writers of ST are trying to tell you to pay attention to the fact el had a “ boyish /Will-like” appearance (and despite this- Mike was supposedly into her in s1). Then we had s2 byler parallel s3 mileven to show him fail to project his romantic feelings of Will on to el: Crazy together vs blank makes you crazy, , shed scenes: most important thing vs it was the best thing, Will & El calling for mike in the upsidedown (and mike coming for Will only), “they’re not in love they’re not even from the same planet” vs “welcome to my world”, Will having pics of Mike smiling on Halloween looking at him vs El having a pic of Mike glaring on Halloween, mileven paralleled to luke/leia & byler to king tristan/Han, byler paralleled to Venkman/Dana a ghost busters couple vs El just being a ghost and mike a ghost hunter, the s3 fight vs breakup and the various contrasts between all 3 (showing Will upset and El happy - and mike caring more about resolving his fight with Will than El- and never apologizing to El for lying ). I went into more detail here about the parallels between mileven/byer, mileven,stancy,Karen/ted , etc here.

And when he tells El “I can’t lose you again” It’s supposed to be ambiguous-cause Mileven like stobin is a straight bait. The fact is 2 prior times in season 2 (when mike was in the center of the group) he sadly watches Will as Will gets in a car and drives away.

Hinting to the viewer he’s actually thinking and worrying about losing Will (that 3rd time in s2 when he’s talking to El and seeing the cars with El/ Will drive away) . He once again is in the center of the group like the prior 2 scenes. And he already lost Will before and Will (like el) also had a fake d*ath. So yeah...we hear mike tell el that line and mike watches both El and Will leave in cars (and starts to cry) since mike knows that Will (unlike superpowered El) may d*e from his possession and he may never see him again. And it’s not like he can tell Will that line when he’s unconscious/possessed (especially in front of his friends) .

Just like in s2, when mike watches El and Will drive away .... he does so again in s3. And it’s similarly ‘ambiguous’, on who he’s upset seeing drive away. But, Mike turns to looks at the byers house, and tries to catchup with his friends (which has identically framing to an earlier scene in s3 of Will sadly turning to look at mike leave with El and then turning back to rush and catchup with the gang). Will turned around cause of Mike (not El) just like Mike turned around thinking of Will (not El). Just like s2,s3 uses earlier scenes in that particular season to give us hints about who he’s actually sad about driving away .

And in that moving away montage - it only pans to mike and Will .

And has Mike hug his mom in the same way he did in s1. Both represent moments representing him ‘losing Will’ (through his fake d*ath/moving away). Mike both times storms into the house and Karen rushes to him nervous and unsure why he’s upset , but goes into hug him when mike reaches for her (needing comfort). Unlike the mileven hug that’s outside and he doesn’t reach for her at all- she hugged him because she was worried (was he upset -sure but it’s not a parallel to the s3 hug). And they played “we can be heroes” for both hugs - cause both times mike lost Will.

And that s2 car scene where he talked to El (just like the prior s2 car scenes) was indicative of his fear of losing Will (not El). Which happened at the end of s3. It all ties together. Cause again , he was thinking of Will!

They even had several movies on the st list (altered states / children of paradise) have this concept of projecting romantic feelings of someone they’re in love with on to someone else. Altered states -has a guy just like Will hallucinate flashing to another dimension . People say about him and his wife “he’s crazy and she’s crazy about him”. And when they weren’t together she says she had to pretend everyone she dated was him (but that it only made her feel worse cause it wasn’t him) .And she says about doing so “’it’s crazy”. And her friend says “i think that’s how it’s supposed to be.” CAN THEY GET MORE CLEAR with the projection?

Heck, even El projects on to Mike. While mileven is separated between s1-2 she watches the soap opera (’all my children’) and pretends to be Erica kane (who in the episode El was watching) got into a rushed elopement to MIKE ROY (who was a writer).Aka she projected romance from soap operas/her possible crush of MIKE roy onto MIKE wheeler.And Erica/Mike weren’t endgame- even had a lot of st*liking after the break up (similar to El’s spying)

Mileven and Byler are very different- much to Mike’s annoyance. And Mike projects this anger of not being able to love El romantically on to Max,Will, & Hopper.

Mileven and byler are very different even if mike wishes he had romantic feelings for El (like he does for Will). Mileven is paralleled to hopper/el cause mike truly sees her in a familial way- both teach her the definitions of compromise vs promise (and make promises to her), say to eat “real food” and not eggos, keep her hidden away and safe. Both say her new look is “cool” and El in response to both says it’s “bitchin” and both say back “yeah bitchin”. Both claim someone is “corrupting” El (when trying to dictate her romantic decisions ) and Joyce/Max tell both guys they don’t respect El’s ability to make her own “decisions”. And El says to both of them “you lie” while Max says El should figure out what she likes and not simply listen to Hopper and Mike. Also similar to what she does with kali /Max (a sister/friend) El copies expressions from all 4 of them ( bitchin, i make my own rules , not stupid, mouth breather/friends don’t lie). Mileven is also paralleled to Luke/leia, and multiple people say El is like a “sister “ (lucas) and “cousin” (dustin) in s1. Even El asks before he first kisses her if Mike will he be “like (her) bother.”

In s2, Max (with the gang at Will’s house) asks how mike can still trust Will despite being possessed and in s3 max (with the gang at El’s house) calls out mike for not trusting El. “El has saved the world twice. And Mike still doesn’t trust her!”And instead of Mike admitting that truth -that he doesn’t trust El who he doesn’t know well (who spied on him) he projects all the blame/distrust wrongly on to max saying “you want to talk about trust ?REALLY?! After YOU made eleven spy on us!” And when max says it was el’s idea he yells exasperated into Max’s face “guess girlfriends don’t lie they spy!” He shows he’s aggravated with the fact El is so against lying but had no qualms with spying. But only yells at Max (not El) and he even tries (incorrectly) claiming Max is “corrupting” El and making her do things she didn’t want to do . Cause he’s still in denial and wants to fall in love with El- and doesn’t want to see any of El’s flaws that would make it harder to do so ( so he just projects that anger on to max instead).

And we know during the byler fight: Will calls El “stupid” but he was just projecting his own feelings about himself on to EL-since right after this he calls himself “stupid” 4x. So it’s likely when Mike yells back “El’s not stupid. It’s not my fault you don’t like girls!” Like Will, It’s AGAIN Mike PROJECTING his insecurities about himself (aka not liking girls) and his relationship issues with El - on to Will. Rather than an actual statement on Will’s se*uality. Sort of like Mike lashing out and projecting his anger about his failing romantic relationship with El on to Max .

The simple fact is el is mike’s safe option (she physically resembles Will but is a girl and thus he’s allowed to be attracted to her- in conservative 80s America). However, we see the more El develops into her own person and differs from Will in personality (plus , the fact puberty is making the distinction between genders more apparent) the harder it is for Mike to fool himself and project.The writers in s3 make a telemarketing joke just to have mike say “el, no, not interested” (aka his true feelings).Mileven in s3 was called “b*llshit” like stancy (which have multiple parallels and weren’t in love ). And nancy admitted to Jonathan (a byers ) she wanted to be with him the whole time. But ,despite that, got back with Steve (and continued to kiss Steve all the time, and even lied saying she loved Steve for an entire year) essentially mileven. Karen /ted also is paralleled to Stancy & mileven- who were “never in love” . Then , Max says friends don’t lie but “boyfriends (mike) LIE all the time” (aka he’s lying about his romantic feelings), and when lucas asks WHY he lied to el -it pans to Will (the real reason he lies to El about his feelings for her). When El asks “why do you lie” (he just is silent and stares up guilty). Lucas says about mileven (right before Dustin says they’re “bullsh*t” that “they’re lying”.And when he tries confessing to El, he never apologizes for lying and just used the similar ‘crazy’ line he used on Will (in s2). Cause if he actually stopped lying - he couldn’t continue to use her as a beard and date her/try and get back together. Plus he also fought with Hopper in s2 (’about El’) in WILL’S ROOM . He wasn’t actually calling Hopper the liar he was PROJECTING and calling himself “a stupid disgusting liar”out of self hate . That scene was foreshadowing his lying to El in s3 (about his feelings for her). He blamed Hopper for his feelings for Will cause he told himself it wouldn’t have escalated if El had been around to ‘fix him’ . “I BLAME YOU! NOTHING ABOUT THIS IS OK! NOTHING ABOUT THIS IS OK. YOU STUPID DISGUSTING liar, liar, liar, liar”.starts crying. And then it zooms to Mike’s crying face and pans to El (who he would lie to constantly the next season).

I also discussed in detail here how the bathroom stobin confession paralleled the mileven grocery confession- and again 1 in each of the couplets is gay. Heck, the “first i love you” plays only 2x in s3: when steve confesses to gay-robin and when el confessed to mike and kisses him and Mike doesn’t kiss back or say he loves her back. When she kisses Mike- it’s in WILL’S ROOM room AGAIN, Will’s old teddybear between them, as they kiss in front of Will open closet door) . in s2ep1 the lyrics are “just a little more time can open closing doors” (as Mike kisses El and it pans over the ‘Will the wise’ drawing & a rainbow-heart-Mike drawing, that blend together). But , In the same ep- when Will says he won’t fall in love the lyrics are “love that is new to you, you open up the door.” Later in the song it even mentions the “wheeler house”. So yes- after “a little more time” (3 months) mike and El kiss once again like ep 1- but it’s in front of Will’s open door and Mike is not feeling it- and it shows what is going to begin in s4 (byler). That after some time- despite the byler-doors appearing to ‘close’ they open up again after the mileven breakup/mike realizing the depth of his feelings and the fact he can’t ‘fix himself’ and be straight.El saying she loved him- and him not feeling any different after... was probably the catalyst for that realization.

Before this, we saw him project “his feelings” for Will on to El in romantic situations. But, he refused to integrate her into his friend group like his straight friends did with their gfs-unlike lucas with max, or how dustin tried to do so with Susie) . Cause he’s unfairly used El as a beard and wanted to compartmentalizes his friends and romance as much as possible (since faking it all the time not only with El-but with his friends would be exhausting).

Does he care about El- sure in his own flawed way. But, sorry (in my opinion) to act like mike” loves Will and El equally “ is kind of ludicrous . His actions show the opposite. And he’s only known El for 9 months as opposed to knowing Will for 9 years. And he’s known all of his other guy friends and the Byers much longer. What do they have in common?Are they friends ? Sure... technically but “friends don’t lie”. And mike has done plenty of that to her - so until they sort that out- and are honest to eachother- they can’t really have a strong foundation of friendship in my opinion. It’ll only improve once they start being honest and respect each other’s autonomy (aka stop dating and actually establish a friendship... and stop lying /spying on eachother). At the moment- Mike stunts El’s character growth and tries isolating her from the outside world, doesn’t respect her autonomy/ability to make decisions, doesn’t trust her in general, lies to her, and treats her like he’s her overly controlling dad. The relationship isn’t balanced or healthy (like byler or Mike and his other peers). In s1 he called her “a weapon” they could use to save Will (a lesson he appears to have learned from).But Max has to yell at Mike in s3 “she’s not yours! she’s her own person-fully capable of making her own decisions!” And EL says Mike treats her like “a pet” and “garbage”. So yeah... I don’t get people being ‘offended’ by me pointing out the romantic projection he does- and saying it supposedly ‘destroys’ the ‘beautiful relationship/friendship’ they have. Before I can consider mileven a “beautiful/loving friendship’: Mike needs to stop projecting and seeing El as a perfect beard to ‘fix him’- AND see El as her own person and NOT someone he needs to ‘take care of’ (cause he wrongly infantilizes her) . I think the 2 will eventually become good friends- and Mike will see he was wrong. But they’re not there yet- in my opinion.

#byler #byeler #anti mileven

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kaypeace21 · 5 years

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i LOVE your analysis especially byler ones so please don't take this as hate, it's the last thing i want to do. but while i love the byler theories do you actually think the duffers are smart enough to realize the potential/brave enough to follow through on the relationship. bc tbh i think our viewpoint is skewed i don't think anyone but byler shippers see the canon possibility. and also it really seems like m/leven is going to be endgame? just wanted to know more of your thought process

Even if byler never happens- I’m 100% sure mileven won’t be endgame XD. Regardless of byler, Mike and El are just not going to happen. (Even if they’re ‘dating’ in s4). I could try to explain the reasons why I think byler will be endgame though. I’ll give the cliffnotes version. This will probably be a mess- because focusing on all the reasons isn’t as good as analyzing , each reason as it’s own separate post, in depth).

Why mileven isn’t endgame

- The duffers said, while filming ST, El was supposed to die in s1 (glad that didn’t happen). And this was also their plan when pitching their show ‘Montauk’ (later retitled ST), saying that the hypothetical s2 sequel would be about the boys returning to their town 10 years later. Mileven was never ‘planned end-game’. They also describe mileven kissing but never mention the word ‘love’ like how Jancy was described in the Montauk pitch. Nancy’s bio says “ she will experience love for the first time.” But when they describe mileven, they say, “If Mike is the Elliot of our show, Eleven is our “E.T.” Like that’s … not romantic, Duffers. And if it was supposed to be … WTF did you guys watch the same film? 0-O

- In the byler centric s2, the Duffers kept mileven separated. And the mileven kiss wasn’t written in the show. Millie pretty much said “they had to do it.” Much to Matt’s confusion but then the Duffers agreed. And used ‘every breath you take’ (a song about divorce), and just by coincidence their 2nd back-up song was also a song about a divorce? Nah, they were trolling.

- Most of the women (Nancy & Max) in the show critique Mileven saying Mike treats her as if she’s stupid, can’t take care of herself, or as she is a possession.

-in the first ep of s3 almost all the guys (who had/have gfs) Hopper, Lucas, and Dustin all criticize the mileven relationship and think it’s unhealthy.

Hopper says “ They’re spending entirely too much time together… It is constant.It is constant! Okay? That is not normal, that is not healthy! ”

Lucas mocks Mike, saying “ Oh El, I wish we could make out forever and never hang out with any of our friends.”

Dustin says when they flake on him, “It’s bullshit, I just got home!” (insert Nancy calling Stancy ‘bullshit’)

and before this Dustin talks about Romeo & Juliet (while mileven is out of frame). R&J is all about the dangers of not knowing the difference between love and infatuation. Juliet after Romeo is banished just complains about how in love/sad she is but never pursues looking for him (sound familiar)? R&J claimed that they were in love with each other after knowing each for a few days and deciding to get married-sabotaging the closest relationships they had with their friends/family (all in the name of ‘true love’) . Similarly Mileven thought they were in love after only a week of knowing each other, and the second they are reunited they start dating and spend all their time with each other. El is allowed out of the house (and her friends are allowed to visit), but El hasn’t interacted with Max nor Will? They spend almost everyday in her room just making out. Mike puts very little effort into integrating her into his life or as part of the group. The only time they go out- is for Mike to show off El to Dustin like a possession- then before El can even do the boding activity with the group (with the radio tower)- Mike convinces her to leave to make out. They are both complicit in this and they both bring out the worst in each other and they make each other blinded to their loved ones’ feelings.

- El literally asks Max “How do I know what I like?” Do I have to explain why this could be problematic? She even says “I don’t know”, when Max asks if Mike is a good kisser.You can call me ‘ableist’ my abused-autistic ass will disagree. But El is not ready for a romantic relationship! it makes perfect sense for El to be confused by the distinctions of romantic, platonic, and familial love- when the first 12 years of her life she didn’t receive any form of love , PERIOD! And she is not like normal abuse victims (she has never had proper socialization with peers her own age or even adults).All she had was television. She latches herself on to anyone who is kind to her (something I used to do). Without Mike she used Max as a replacement almost immediately, and even starts repeating/mirroring the things she says (specifically coping phrases from her …over 6 times!). She’s also susceptible to doing what others say or want her to do, “dumping his ass” (with Max’s validation and encouragement). El might love Mike but I don’t think it’s romantic, she latched on to the first person that was kind to her. Before their first kiss she asked Mike “Will you be like my brother?” And she’s hurt when he says “no”, asking “Why not?”. He then kisses her (she watches a lot of soap operas and she assumes it must be ‘romantic love’). You’re telling me that if she was ‘in love’ with Mike she would have been that happy over dumping him? I’m not saying El is dumb for not being able to discern these things (I think people without such backgrounds may still struggle with this concept). But it makes perfect sense for El to be confused by the distinctions of various loves or even the differences between ‘crushes’ , ‘physical attraction’ and ‘romantic love’

- In the last ep El asks about what he said at the cabin to Max, specifying “you talked about your feelings?”. He says and I QUOTE “Oh! Oh, yeah that.Man, that was so long ago. Um…” and starts to scratch his head. Then he excuses what he said at the cabin, saying it was “in the heat of the moment stuff and we were arguing… I don’t actually remember. What did I say exactly?”

Now either he legitimately forgot! Or he lied! You know the thing that broke them up in the first place! The one thing that El holds as her most important value in life- honesty. And he lied- about something as important as his romantic feelings?! Make up any excuse (about being shy/character flaws all you want), but this isn’t real life- it’s fiction (everything is done for a narrative purpose). That wasn’t an accident ( mileven wasn’t “written out of character”- like milevens claim, the duffers were criticizing the ship on purpose) .And the fact he lied again! Wouldn’t bode well for a long term relation with each other. The whole season, criticized their romantic relationship ! That wasn’t a coincidence neither was the fact he looked confused by her confession, and kept his eyes open the whole time and didn’t kiss her back .

And as she smiled and walked away, he looked confused. That wasn’t a directing mistake, like so many milevens are claiming! You really think they wouldn’t make sure their ‘fav ship’ didn’t have a good final kiss?

Especially since it was right after a romantic Jancy scene (which was directed amazingly)- where Nancy even mentions Mileven- to make us compare the 2 pairings romantic scenes even more.

* I know I sound like an assh*le but I’m just annoyed. I’ve always censored my byler posts trying not to offend/criticize mileven. I never cross tagged my byler meta with the hashtag mileven (never will, cause it’s rude). But (without sounding pompous) my byler posts generally gets reblogged a lot- and now the milevens have seen my posts (and are sending lots of hate my way) and worst of all they’ve invaded the byler tag. Today I saw 2 posts in the byler tag saying. “We’re delusional” and “stupid”- and also in the same posts they say they “feel attacked” by us.Um… there’s a difference between byler shippers privately criticizing a ship without bothering mileven shippers (and only tagging it byler) . Versus Mileven shippers tagging things byler (and ranting about the ship and it’s shippers). Loved the comment about how Mike can’t be bi cause “he loves El too much”.I think Mike is probably gay and in denial. But, um that’s not how being bi works- didn’t know bi people love women and men ½ as much as the gays/straights. Thanks for informing me (rolls eyes for eternity).So kid-gloves off, nothing left to lose! Time to compare the ships.

‘The breakup’ vs ‘fight’ parallel

comedic vs dramatic! The casual sunny day vs the dramatic framing of the storm (a romantic trope) . The ‘break-up’ being a scene with multiple onlookers vs the fight being with Will and Mike only (making it more personal/intimate). ‘Cold as ice’ playing after the mileven breakup vs the sad instrumentals playing during the byler fight. The comedic after-math at the mall. El and Max laughing, and another joke being made as the bus leaves.El’s happiness vs Will’s heartbreak.

Mike’s drastically different expressions after their fights. He looks regretful with Will, and almost annoyed with El dumping him. The fact Mike apologized right away more than once to Will, and ran into a storm to apologize a 2nd time. But with El he just lies to cover up the first lie, and then after the break-up he just complains/lounges on the couch (not taking any responsibility). He literally says about El “Why is she treating me this way? What did I do to deserve this? What did I do wrong?”.( He lied and made her feel “like garbage”!) Then he burps and laughs about chips- and makes sexist comments. Neither EL nor Mike are heartbroken by the breakup.

But when he angers Will (by him trying to finish the game early), he immediately tries to de-escalate saying softly “I was just joking- c’mon, let’s finish the game”. But when Will just yells back (much to Mike’s confusion) he doesn’t dismiss his feelings as irrational (like he wrongfully did to El) but chases him to the garage- and begs him to stay since it’s raining.

In the garage, Mike immediately apologizes saying “I said I was sorry, alright. It was a cool campaign.” But after this, they fight and Mike runs into a storm to apologize a second time , and says to Will’s door “ WILL! I’m sorry I was being an asshole. Can you just come outside and we’ll talk? WILL!” He immediately takes responsibility and apologizes. And he’s desperate to resolve things. And when they find him outside castle Byers he just asks (Mike’s catchphrase) “Will, Are you ok?”

Shed scene ( “best thing I’ve ever done” vs “the most important thing in the world to me”) parallel

When Mike says to El “you’re most important thing to me” in the pool shed. El doesn’t even acknowledge the comment (and neither should the audience- cause the words were empty). She completely ignores his words, and responds by asking him about his previous comments. Asking whether Hopper was right about them spending too much time together.

I didn’t edit (or delete any scene after his proclamation) this is how fast it was delivered ! The framing of this mileven scene was not cinematic or heartfelt, and neither was the delivery from Mike. He’s not crying, trying to reach her with proclamations of his genuine feelings. There’s no dramatic music, framing, lighting or shot composition. And El just responds and cuts his supposed ‘true feelings’ off- only to agree with Hopper and says “ she should spend time with her own species.” And if this ‘romantic moment’ wasn’t already undermined enough. This is when Mike realizes she was spying on him , and feels wrongfully violated (something she doesn’t apologize for, saying “I make my own rules” . He even brings this up in a later episode (this clearly bothered him)!

Juxtaposed to the MUCH longer byler scene. A literal single tear falling down his cheek as Mike , recounts the first day they met. Mike being in the back drop of darkness only his face being illuminated (having him appear like a guiding light to Will). Saying “ I felt so alone and so scared… but you were alone too” (alone together/crazy together) . He then talks about asking Will to be his friend, and then he pauses and breaks eye contact , before looking him in the eye and smiling (lost in the memory) saying softly “you said yes, you said yes.” (cough like saying yes at a wedding).

So, after he says “you said yes, you said yes.” It’s important to mention that he takes a deep breath and breaks eye contact again, (looking down and to the side) as he says this line. Subconsciously, I believe he knows this line is romantic and he’s too afraid to say it to his face. Only flicking his eyes up to look at Will after he finishes the entire sentence, and to gauge Will’s reaction.

This whole monologue is only of tight shots of just their faces (their bodies aren’t shown like in the pool shed scene). This is a personal moment between them and them alone- and the fact we zoom in on their faces (expresses this to be important emotionally) . And when we see Will’s reaction to Mike saying “it was the best thing I’ve ever done”. We just see Will’s face only- no music is playing and all we hear is Will’s whimpers and Mike crying in the background.

“ Blank makes you Crazy” vs “ Crazy Together parallel

When Mike tries to confess his “love” to El he says “Well they do say it makes you crazy”… much to El’s confusion.He has to try to explain it a second time to El- who just gets even more confused, by his ‘confession’. Saying “you never heard that expression? Like blank makes you crazy … like the word (love)?”

But when Mike says he “feels like he’s going crazy” Will immediately responds with “Me too”. Mike even smiles at the comment. So that moment in s2 means more than we think, when Mike (with tears in his eyes) smiles at Will’s comment and asks them to go “crazy together”.And when Will responds back “yeah, crazy together” (who also has tears in his eyes). They even linger on the moment as they just smile and stare at each other.

Mike is in denial, and may not even realize he loves Will, but he knows subconsciously that he does. He heard the phrase “love makes you crazy and that damn stupid”, 100′s of times and that’s why he said that phrase to Will. And why it made him so happy when Will reciprocated , by saying “ yeah. crazy together.” In addition to why we see them both go from happy, to immediately upset over the conversation.The scene was already romantically coded in s2 (but the scene in s3 re-contextualizes the whole thing) . Mike thinks “love makes you crazy” , and he asked Will to go ‘crazy together’ with him. And When Will is at castle byers looking at the Halloween pic of the 2 the day Mike said that, Will cries and calls himself “stupid” (4x). Can’t get more obvious… Like look what the duffers did!

El and Will’s opinions on Mike (Parallels)

-When asked if Mike was a good kisser, she just said “I don’t know he’s my 1st boyfriend.” (implying she’s thinking, at least subconsciously, of having other boyfriends ,who are not Mike in the future). But when Mike pretty much asks’ if Will thought they’d never get girlfriends, and spend the rest of their lives with each other’.Will just sadly responds “yeah, I guess I did. I really did!” Unlike, El, Will always saw Mike as his future, his forever.

-And when Mike says “it’s just a break” , Max says “No it’s not!”, and we see El laugh along with Max’s comment. She is not heartbroken at the idea of never getting back together with him, romantically. Right after they break up she was laughing, reading comics, and playing games with Max.

But Will is devastated over the fight! And out of all the memories in Castle Byers it’s the Ghostbusters photo from Halloween that causes Will to pick up the bat and start destroying everything. That was the night that Mike agreed to go “crazy together” with him. He tears it in ½ right in the center where Mike and Will are. He was so stupid to think it meant anything. The “crazy together” scene, that Mike initiated in s2 was always meant to be romantic. Not only because of Will’s reaction to the photo in s3, but because Mike in s3 says “They do say it makes you crazy…blank makes you crazy.” Which is exactly what happens to Will, as he has his breakdown.Castle byers was built on a rainy night , the same day Will’s dad left, when Will was 5 (the same age he met Mike). And lonnie called him a “queer” and a “f*g” and forced him to do “normal things” like baseball to have him “be more of a man”. And then on a rainy night, after Mike says “It’s not my fault you don’t like girls”… what does Will destroy castle byers with? A baseball bat! The fact Will has a baseball bat (despite in s1 saying he does not like baseball) in Castle Byers, surrounded by things he loves: drawings, d&d, art supplies, a microscope, comics- just shows what an impact Lonnie’s problematic conditioning and abandonment had on him. He used a baseball bat to destroy something he loves -castle Byers, and symbolically he was trying to reject his feelings for Mike using Lonnie’s old tactics of fixing him.

- Also, El doesn’t even seem to appreciate when Mike acts like his true self (goofy/like a kid). She laughs when Max complains he talks too much. Rolls his at his jokes with the cpr-dummy, covers his mouth and tells him to stop when he tries to joke and sing, ignores him when he gets excited about talking about dinosaurs. Which relates to my next point

The only characters who’s character bios focus on ‘escaping’ through d&d is Mike and Will.

Will in the Montauk pitch was described as having “sexual identity issues… LIKE MIKE , Will ESCAPES through fantasy gaming where he can be himself, uninhibited.” Like what is Mike escaping from… being a nerd? Because they could of said ‘like his friends’. And no it’s not because they’re best friends- they even specifIed in Lucas bio he’s “ Mike’s best friend” (which was even mentioned in s1).

.In Mike’s character description it says “ bullying and near-crippling insecurity. He has never had a first kiss, much less a girlfriend.He ESCAPES his insecurities through reading fantasy novels … retreating into his own vivid imagination. The Dungeon Master of his Dungeons and Dragons group, he writes sprawling adventures with fantastical monsters.When he finds himself on a real adventure, facing real monsters, he will discover a courage he didn’t know he had. By the end, he will even kiss a girl.”

*Interesting that Mike uses D&D to escape his insecurities about not having a gf (retreating into his imagination). While Will (who is somewhat aware of his sexuality) uses d&d to escape and be himself uninhibited. They’re foils in a sense- using d&d for opposing reasons.

So the s3 fight about d&d games has a lot more meaning

Mike equates heterosexual romance with ‘growing up’ and his feeling for Will as something childish he has to grow out of.When they fight over d&d. Mike says “It’s not my fault you don’t like girls!”, then he tries to ½ apologize only to say, “I’m not trying to be a jerk. Ok? But We’re not kids anymore.” He pretty much explains, this is just the way things are-boys fall in love with girls, get girlfriends, and that’s just a part of growing up (heteronormativity). And tells Will “I mean, what did you think, really? That we were never gonna get girlfriends? We were just gonna sit in my basement all day and play games for the rest of our lives?” And poor Will who is probably more aware of his feelings just responds. “Yeah. I guess I did. I really did.” And after this Mike rushes to Will’s house and apologizes saying he was an “asshole.”When he tries to say he loves El . It was very forced. He can’t even use the world love or explain his feelings, “A feeling … yeah, like, something… like OLD PEOPLE say it sometimes”.

He can’t even describe love and what his “feelings” entail for El , he then says “Yeah, like something , like old people say it some times. He doesn’t even say it back in the last ep, when she confesses. It’s all talk, but no feeling, it’s just a part of becoming an adult in Mike’s mind.

In the last ep before the mileven kiss, he even invites both El and Will over for Christmas saying “ And Will too… we could all have new presents to play with and… *scoffs* Sorry, that made me sound like a 7 year old... ”

And it’s implied in the last ep (before the mileven kiss), because of the 3 month breakup Mike is back to liking d &d. When Mike sees Will put his own d&d book in the donation box he stops him.

Mike: “WHOA, dude that’s the donation box.”

Will: “ I know, I’ll just use yours, when I come back. (pause) if WE still want to play?”

So then Mike asks, shyly …

Mike : “Yeah, but what if you want to join another party?” (cough- girls , the other ‘species’, or just someone else: girl, guy or otherwise)

Will: “Not possible.” (Will will always love Mike- insert Mikes immediate heart-eye reaction to this comment).

I think people don’t notice what the subtext is here- regardless of his intentions, Mike broke Will’s heart. He made him feel “stupid” for ever thinking he ever had a chance with Mike. He always saw Mike as his forever, but Mike shot any hopes of that down in the garage. Will doesn’t trust his own instincts. Mike could straight up flirt with him in s4/5- and Will would dismiss it as his imagination. He essentially said ‘he’ll always love Mike- but if something is going to happen. It’s up to Mike to initiate it’.

Mike was queer coded since ep 1 (and he’s more queer coded than Will)!

I LITERALLY thought (in s1) Mike was queer before Will!

- 3 rainbow references. Mike in s1 in his basement has a red heart being propelled by a rainbow sign. We see this again in s3 as a drawing. Mike also stands next to Will behind a rainbow apple poster in s2. Forbidden fruit + rainbow = queer forbidden romance. Also the apple poster was in the AV Club and at that time the rainbow apple-mac sign was suspected to be in reference to for Alan Turning (the gay ‘father of computers’).

In s1:

- 4 separate characters said El looked like a boy, but Mike doesn’t care! Even one of the men thought El might be the missing ‘Byers boy’. When El loses her wig , Troy said “she doesn’t even look like a girl” to the cops. But Mike just calls her “really pretty”

-Nancy says “I thought you were acting weird, but I thought it was because of Will” And Mike responds “I thought you were acting weird too I thought it was because of Steve … Do you like Jonathan now”?” Nancy: “No, do you like Eleven?”. They literally compared the explicit love triangle between Steve/Nancy/Jonathan to the Will-Mike-El dynamic!

- Mike literally uses gender inclusive pronouns when talking about crushes using the word “someone” (3 times), and embarrassing himself because he can’t articulate the difference between friendship and romance. When he could of simply given the 80s heteronormative answer of ‘when a boy likes a girl’.

Mike: “ you go to school dances with someone.

You know someone that you like”

El: “a friend?”

Mike: ‘not a friend uh … uh someone like a” (gives up and kisses her)

-Mike’s mom said “ What’s been going on with Will, I can’t imagine what it’s been like for you. I just … want you to feel like you can talk to me. I never want you to feel like you have to HIDE anything from me” (she even emphasizes the word ‘hide” (which is heavily queer coded)

- when Will ‘dies’, “we can be heroes” by David bowie (a bisexual singer) plays, “And we kiss as though nothing could fall and the shame” is the lyric that plays when Mike returns to his house and cries in his mother’s arms over the ‘death’ of Will. Do I have to explain how ‘kissing and shame’ are queer-coded . And how such a lyric is oddly romantic- if we’re supposed to see their bond as nothing but platonic XD

-his dad jokes “Absolutely not” *turns to wife* “our son with a girl?”.

- when Lucas makes fun of his crush on EL, Lucas gets down on one knee and says “ I love you so much, will you marry me?” and literally 1s later, we’re introduced to the bullies and the idea (for the first time) that Will is ‘gay’, and Mike is in the forefront of the scene and unlike his friends he is THE ONLY ONE physically assaulted as they cause him to fall face first into a rock (like a gay-bashing) . They leave Lucas and Dustin unharmed. Even though Lucas just proposed to another guy- which should have gotten him a beating by the homophobic bullies.

It’s supposed to subconsciously hint Mike is queer like Will, and likes Will. The first interaction with the bullies, they mention Will being ‘gay’ right after they mention Mike’s crush on androgynous El and have a guy propose to Mike. Mike says to “ignore them” ( the homophobic remarks) but is assaulted anyways. And when asked what happed he doesn’t want to tell El the details cause he’s ashamed .

2nd time the bullies talk about Will, Mike is once again in the forefront, unlike his straight friends who are in the background . But this time Mike initiates the confrontation), as the bullies say Will is “flying in fairyland with all the other little fairies. All happy and gay”. Mike was literally on the verge or tears at this comment (despite being happy a few moments earlier , telling the others to ‘act sad’ because they’d look suspicious other wise). But this is the comment where Mike snaps and pushes Troy back (because he took it personally/wanted to defend Will).

The framing of Mike once again being in the front and snapping at the homophobic remarks ( gifs don’t do it justice, just rewatch the scene -Mike eyes water at the remarks). Then the last time the bullies appear , Mike jumps off the cliff and “flies like a fairy” (like Troy said) thanks to El . Troy at the police station even uses the word “fly” not levitate.

-Mike sneaking out to find Will, as Steve sneaks in to Nancy’s. They both even make eye contact (and pretend not to have seen each other).

- they share dinosaur toys , in s1 and 2 they appear to be the only ones with dinosaur toys.

- The s1 mom hug scene where Mike feels he lost Will is paralleled in s3 - signifying how he lost him a 2nd time.

- Mike in the 1st ep being the one to insist on looking for Will in the rain (callback to s3). But he never went looking for El when he saw her through his window? Even when Mike saw Will’s dead body, the second he heard his voice he convinced his friends to help rescue him!

- You remember the binder (from s1) that Mike keeps, filled with 100s of Will’s drawings, and how he caresses the drawing after thinking Will was dead. That’s totes platonic.

- Mike in s1 proclaiming “I’m the only one who cares about Will!” Seems like something a kid with a crush might say ( because obviously his other friends care about Will). But he thinks he cares the most. He was even the first to worry about Will not showing up to school, the first to suggest looking for him while speaking to Hopper, and when Hopper and his parents say ‘no’ he sneaks out anyway (and is the first to suggest forming a search party). The first to believe he was alive after seeing his dead body.The only boy to have a scene dedicated solely to him mourning Will. Mike being the only boy to stay awake at the hospital, and the first boy to see and hug Will. The only one to have a private one on one talk before Will goes missing. The only one who was literally given 100s of Will’s drawings. And yet Dustin says Lucas’ is Mike’s best friend? So what does that make Mike and Will?

In s2:

- Will in all 3 seasons identifies as a wizard. But in s2 Mike (the paladin) says Will is a cleric. Meaning this reflects how Mike actually feels about Will. In d&d, they have similar moral values, powers, and generally need and depend on each other in the lore of d&d. Paladins have similar healing powers to clerics, but clerics have stronger healing abilities - which is interesting since Mike has always been viewed as the protector. But to Mike Will has helped him (maybe deal with the loss of El and other trauma) , just by being there. And if Mike says Will is a cleric,despite Will still identifying as a wizard in s3, it shows how deeply Mike actually feels about Will. It shows he views Will as one of the only people who understands him and views him as a healing presence and his moral compass.

“ strength of conviction gave many paladins a sense of common fellowship but did not always endear them to others. In many cases, paladins did not get along quite as well with other non-paladin adventurers, with the exception of clerics with similar beliefs.”

“A Paladin tries to hold to the highest standards of conduct, but even the most virtuous Paladin is fallible. Sometimes the heat of emotion causes a Paladin to transgress his or her oath (of honesty, courage, compassion, honor ,and duty). A paladin who has broken a vow typically seeks absolution from a cleric who shares his or her faith or from another paladin of the same order. After a rite of confession and forgiveness, the paladin starts fresh.”

This proves Mike knows he treats Will special/different than his other friends- and unlike a relationship with El (they are still individuals who are not dependent on each other). And Mike thinks being with Will quite literally makes him a better person. Juxtaposed with how him being in a romantic relationship with El made him blind and apathetic to those closest to him .

- All the mileven s1 parallels vs byler s2 parallels were ALL initiated by Mike. If the parallels were meant to show a one sided love triangle (on Mike’s end). They would of made Will the instigator not Mike! Parallels can be watched here , start at 6:50)

-Mike initiated the “crazy together’ line- and in s3 he said ‘blank makes you crazy’. So subconsciously he knew the line had romantic connotations.

-Mike initiating the hand hold (with a zoom in shot) and in the show this is only done for romantic pairings. Also Mike being the one to initiate the ‘arm thing’ which is generally romantic. But in s3 , Lucas also does this, saying “I am spending quality time with my girlfriend’

-Mike saying, asking him to be his friend was the “best thing I’ve ever done”

-Mike constantly following Will around, asking if he’s okay or biking to his house to check on him in s2 . In s3 running out to chase Will to the garage and apologizing, and running into a storm to apologize a 2nd time.

YOU SEE A PATTERN! Mike is whipped! And is the one constantly chasing and pursuing Will, not the other way around! Before s3, people always portrayed Will as the (stereotypical- problematic trope of a) sad-pinning-gay in a one sided love with Mike. It’s like people didn’t even watch the show (and just assigned tropes/stereotypes they wanted, that weren’t actually there). Will (probably too shy or scared to- because of homophobic taunts) never initiated a single byler moment- it was ALWAYS Mike!!! If people were actually objective, they would of thought it was Mike who was the one pinning!

- Which brings me to Mike literally pinning! Mike forcing Will to dance with a girl (who has a rainbow hairclip), but you literally see Mike’s shocked expression like ‘what,why’d I do that ?’ And after this, they show Dustin looking sad about Max/Lucas dancing and then they have Mike get into the frame (next to Dustin) and look sad when Will/girl are dancing in the same exact frame as Max/Lucas. As they switch between these last 2 shots.

the cannon Spotify playlists-called ‘Mike’s basement beats’- These are character playlists that Spotify and St worked on together after s2.

-his first song is “small town boy” an 80s LGBT anthem about living in a small town and being queer and bullied. Every band member was openly gay.

-his 11th song is ‘don’t you want me’ from a “celebrate your gay pride” album

* But queer people are “delusional” for thinking Mike isn’t straight? And are told to “open your eyes and watch the show” (that was an actual quote in the byler tag). Ok? Take your own advice, then! XD

One of the Duffers cited inspirations for ST is SUPER GAY (and what they based the byler dynamic off of).

In the Will comic, Will throws an old 1970s book called “house of stairs” at the demorgorgan. And in a later chapter Mike and Will just read together at the library (just silently reading together, enjoying each others’ company-totally not a romantic cliche).And Mike warns Will the book ‘could have spoilers’ for the d&d campaign. Also look at this byler-centric cover :)

Peter (Will) is shy, quiet ,initially a pushover, and gay-coded. And as a coping mechanism he has psychological-breaks with reality where he thinks of his best friend from the orphanage, Jasper (Mike) . Another kidnapped boy, named Oliver (who looks just like Jasper/Mike) is also queer-coded (but a violent-sociopath). And, unlike Jasper who actually wanted to protect/take care of Peter -Oliver starts to gets a sick thrill out of making Peter dependent on him (which Peter catches on to pretty quickly). Oliver was insistent on being the only one to ‘wake’ Peter from his episodes (just like how Mike did for Will, in s2), except Oliver calls him pet-names like “sweetheart, baby, etc.”

And again to prove it’s queer-coded I’ll read some of the (shortened) quotes, in the order they were written. These are quotes from Peter (Will’s) pov talking about his childhood best-friend Jasper (Mike) .

-“his room. His and jaspers room. Jasper looking up from his desk, smiling glad to see him. Jasper saying . Something very important. The most important message, the secret message. He couldn’t hear him . But jasper keeps smiling , keeps talking . What was the message, jasper? What was the message? The dream had been beautiful at the beginning, terrible at the end, but he longed to be in it again. If only he hadn’t awakened.”

-“Jasper sitting on the bed and taking off his shoes ,smiling, ‘you’re okay pete, you’re better than a hundered of those slobs put together. Tomorrow I’ll tell them so myself‘ jasper’s strong, hard body as he got into bed ,so different from peter’s. Strong, to protect him to take care of him. Jasper, who always took care of him”.

-“He wanted to think about oliver it it was like having Jasper back again. It would disturb him to see Oliver go off with Abigail… the rejection quite painful. It had never been like that with Jasper…jasper.

-The room they shared with rainbow colors, murmuring comforting words to him , enclosing and protecting him. He let himself drift into it, the rainbow hues dimness.”

-“No one ever depended on him. It was he who always depended on others, on Jasper. jasper, who had always taken care of him. Jasper…”

later he admits his feelings for Jasper to Lola/el. Lola and Pete are plantonic soulmates. The only reason why they survive and don’t succumb to their dark and violent urges/psychological brainwashing is because of each other. Lola has brown hair and eyes and has a buzzcut and is heavily implied to be a lesbian (as she is the only girl in the group who is not fooled by Oliver’s ‘nice guy act’. Which makes the other girls ‘suspicious’ and alienate her). Also this was written in the 70s… she has a buzzcut and is said to “look like a boy”. It’s not that subtle! There was a reason that the author whose first name was WILLIAM (was suspected to be gay/bi when he was alive)! XD

-Peter says “ he was my friend we were always together . Jasper his name was jasper .in the dream he’s taking care of me’. Now he was beginning to cry, his throat constricting and tears welling up in his eyes .’taking care of me … he always took care of me… taking care of me, and , and … and loving me’. ‘”It was the best time in your life’ she murmured’. ‘Yes’ “

* cough protective childhood friend, rainbows, ‘best time of your life = best thing I ever did.

S3 ending (byler centric ending)

When we first see Mike during the Hopper mologue, the moving truck leaves. “Like you’re pulling away from me or something. I miss playing board games every night (d &d)”… (the last thing they talked about was Will visiting to play d&d and their fight this season started because of a disagreement about d&d.)

Then Mike looks back at the Byers house (just lingers there and looks back as his friends leave) like how Will did seeing Mike hold hands with El and leave . “But I know you’re getting older, growing, changing. I guess, if I’m being really honest, that’s what scares me. I don’t want things to change.”Mike , like Will “doesn’t want things things to change”. He doesn’t want his his feelings of friendship to become romantic in regards to Will, it “scares” him (especially in rural 80s Indiana). Right after Will cries, it immediately switches to Mike hugging his mom- to mirror the time he thought Will died in s1 “So I think maybe that’s why I came in here, to try and maybe stop that change. To turn back the clock. To make things go back to how they were.” He goes back to his mother for comfort, like he did the 1st time he lost Will. But also to reverse back time, to s1, before he realized his feelings for Will were romantic. When things were simpler.

“But I know that’s naive. It’s just not how life works. It’s moving, always moving, whether you like it or not. And yeah, sometimes it’s painful. Sometimes it’s sad. And sometimes, it’s surprising. Happy.” (byler endgame)

Will (in s2) even says everyone treats him like ‘freak/ that something is wrong with him’ (purposely leaving out Mike from the discussion). And then when Will disparages himself as a freak,and Jonathan agrees but asks Will, ‘who would he rather be friends with- David Bowie (who was openly bi since the 70s) or Kenny Rogers’? And when Will says Bowie, Jonathan agrees saying “see, it’s no contest”.

So, it’s just another coincidence that when Will ‘dies’ (in s1) a David Bowie song (‘we can be heroes’) plays. And as Mike hugs his mom, mourning Will - a romantic lyric from the song plays during the hug?“And we kiss, as though nothing could fall. And the shame” (which is heavily queer coded)?

And then in the last ep (in s3) Mike mirrors this scene in s1, hugging his mom, since he feels like he’s losing Will all over again. And right after the hug (‘we can be heroes’) plays again!? I’m not saying byler is endgame. But- WAIT THAT’S EXACTLY WHAT I’M SAYING! XD

These men literally invented ‘hetero-baiting’ (with Robin & Steve) and you think they’re going to queer bait?!

Also, if Will was a girl named ‘Willow” no one would call byler ‘delusional’ ! Even the most casual viewer would say it’s obvious they’d end up together in the end!

If the witness said about El in s1 , “ same height… it could be the Byers girl”, instead of ‘boy’ (pointing out the resemblance). Mike only meeting El cause he was looking for Willow. Proclaiming “i’m the only one who cares about Willow!” . Mike getting into fights and getting upset (almost crying) about the bullies insulting Willow. Mike only getting angry at El when he thinks she lied about Willow being alive. Mike being the only boy who has a scene dedicated to his loss of her (with the same romantic lyrics playing). Mike having a whole binder of her drawings and caressing one of the drawings, after he thinks she died. Mike being the only one of her friends to stay awake at the hospital, waiting for her to wake up- so he can see her and hug her first. People probably would of started shipping it the second Willow stared at him and was the only one who didn’t lie to him, in the first ep! Another parallel to El!

If Will was Willow, the majority of the fandom would be byler shippers. Think about it! . Mike having s2 byler scenes that are identical to s1 mileven scenes, and then additional unique byler scenes. Mike staying by Willow’s side 24 hours a day for several days (not even changing clothes), carrying her out of the hospital, grabbing her hand (with a zoom in shot),constantly asking her if she’s okay at least 5-7 times, putting his arm around her twice, being the only one who could tell something was off with her (and it wasn’t her normal type of quiet). Calling and running all the way to her house and banging on the door to check on her, desperate. Watching her sleep cause he’s so worried. That shed scene reminiscing about how they first met in perfect detail, saying “I asked, I asked if you wanted to be my friend. You said yes, you said yes. It was the best thing I’ve ever done. (like a marriage proposal)” The “crazy together” scene. Them being close since they were 5 vs the girl he knew for a week (but is somehow in love with?). In s2 if Mike sadly watched Willow dance with another guy , while Dustin does the same to Max. Forget it- everyone would already know mileven would be doomed to fail.

And again think about s3 if Will was a girl.They parallel the (comedic) mileven breakup vs (the sad/serious) byler breakup. Then Mike just complains and burps on the couch vs apologizing to Willlow multiple times/even going into a storm to apologize a 2nd time (and to ‘talk’). Willow having a breakdown over the fight vs El laughing and high five-ing Max after.The shed vs the pool shed scene- “best thing I’ve ever done” vs “you’re the most important thing in the world to me”, “blank makes you crazy’ (as El stares confused) vs “crazy together’ (where Willow says ‘yeah, crazy together’). Mike going on ‘movie dates with Willlow all the time’ right after making out with El. The last mileven kiss where Mike has his eyes open the whole time, and doesn’t kiss back. And saying he doesn’t remember saying “I love” you to El (and doesn’t say ‘I love you’ back). Right after having a talk with Willow about playing games when she comes back (the crux of their fight). Mike getting excited that he’ll be able to visit El and Willow on Thanksgiving and them visiting him on Christmas (those are holidays where family usually introduces their S.O.) Having the last scene of Mike, be him looking back at Willow’s house, and have that whole monologue about “feelings changing”, and then he goes to hug his mom like the s1 byler scene where he thought Willow was dead, signifying he lost her again. And that’s not even all the scenes- and every time byler won by a landslide. If Will was a girl, we wouldn’t be ‘delusional’! It would be obvious writing on the wall, that Mike would eventually choose Willow over El by the end of the series.

But since they are 2 boys, we’re delusional, because queer kids don’t exist … apparently.

*S3-I’m not repeating my literal essays but they’re probably better than this post so here are the links to pretty much all my s3 byler meta. (x) (x) (x) (x) (x) (x) (x) (x)

gif credit: 1st few have the name stark in the gifs, 2nd byler gif (found on wheheart.com- user dream_daisy, not sure if they also have a Tumblr , 3rd livelovecaliforniadreams, 4th &10th Cath-avery, 5& 6th unknown, 7-9 eggogorgon . Tell me if you know the unknown one so I can give credit , please.

#byler #byeler

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kaypeace21 · 5 years

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I feel like you’re the right person to tell this to, but Mileven makes me REALLY uncomfortable. I’m an adult fan (I watch the show mostly for Winona Ryder) and I felt really gross watching the scenes of them making out, knowing that adults wrote those scenes and shot them, and how many people would’ve been there during shooting. Please tell me I’m not alone.

I agree that it makes me feel uncomfortable and gross, too. But, I actually think the Duffers wanted you to feel uncomfortable (and I think mileven was portrayed as ‘off’ and ‘too much’ for that reason). Think about it, when it comes to almost all their other cannon couples- they use kisses sparingly. Jancy has only kissed, romantically 3x (2 of those times were simple kisses- not full blown make-outs), and their first kiss (and only make-out) was quickly obscured as they closed the door.

(x)

Jopper has never kissed, and lumax had an innocent kid-kiss once (and even when back together in s3, they never kissed).

The duffers are sparing with kiss- scenes, unless they are portraying a relationship that won’t work.Most of the relationships that are cannon (with the exception of mileven) focus almost completely on how they communicate with one another- and relationships that lack this (spend most of their time just making-out). What’s the ship that has had the most kiss scenes in the whole series? In the bathroom, library, bedroom(s), garage, in a car, multiple places at school (and has probably had at least 6-7 kiss scenes or more - and who even made out on a bed to corny romance music just like mileven (pre-s3?)- Stancy. Heck, we even see Nancy lose her v**ginity to Steve- but didn’t see Jancy do-it. Because we aren’t supposed to focus on their physical relationship but their emotional one.

Stancy and mileven have had alot of parallels. The wheelers (Nancy and Karen) already made a habit of pretending they’re in love with people- because that relationship is what is deemed the most socially acceptable. Nancy rebelling with the cool-jock (Steve), trying to not be like her parents. And Karen with Ted. Nancy even says in s1 “I don’t think my parents ever loved each other. My mom was young. My dad was older… but he had a cushy job, money, came from a good family. So they bought a house at the end of the cul de sac and started their nuclear family”. Ted & Steve were paralleled to each other, having them both eat chicken as their partners (Karen/Nancy) stormed off upset (and they did nothing). And El was paralleled to Ted by sitting in Ted’s laz-boy chair. And Dustin even refers to mileven as “bullshit” just like Nancy described Stancy as “bullshit”.

(x)

So to reiterate , Mike is doing the same thing as Nancy & Karen- being with someone they don’t love. And only staying with them becuause they are the more socially acceptable/’correct’ option…because El’s a girl (unlike Will).

Also, the fact that Murray’s line to Nancy sounds more queer coded than applicable to Nancy - “ Afraid that if you’d accept yourself for who you really are (cough queer-subtext), and retreated back to… name, name? Steve. Steve! we like Steve (El) but we don’t love Steve (El).”

So, the over-top kisses were done as yet another parallel. And again s2 made fun of (kids who are) mileven shippers ( I’ll talk about that later).

But , S3 was the Duffers criticizing the adult mileven shippers- who are obsessed with mileven kissing.

Like don’t get me wrong there’s some weird byler shippers (but the majority of byler shippers focus on the emotional not physical part of their relationship).

Think about it. Look how they framed this scene of mileven kissing- making us the viewer feel like a peeping-tom, watching them through the crack in the door. Then El sees the viewer and subsequently gasps and slams the door in front of our faces. YOU ARE SUPPOSED TO FEEL UNCOMFORTABLE!

The Duffers and their crew (like good directors) were manipulating your emotions- without you realizing how or why. They were also calling-out the adult-mileven shippers (not all of them but the ones) who are obsessed with their kiss scenes - creepy AF. The duffers never even wrote for mileven to kiss in s2- but Millie said they “had to for the fans”. And so the Duffers conceded and put in a song about a bad-breakup during the mileven kiss - and their backup-song-choice was even about a divorce. XD

So the 2 mileven make-out scenes were supposed to make you uncomfortable- because not only are they kids (who are making out on a bed , but the way they were framed).

So that 3rd and last kiss. Was 100% supposed to make you uncomfortable (but just for a different reason).

Like it or not Mike either forgot that he said he “loved her”. Or just LIED to El (despite this being the reason they broke up in the first place)- and pretends he didn’t confess to her . He has never said “ I love you’, once to her face! He even tries to take the words back (before the kiss) and says about the prior love confession “ Oh! Oh, yeah that.Man, that was so long ago. Um…” and starts to scratch his head and says everything he said at the cabin was “in the heat of the moment stuff and we were arguing… I don’t really remember. What did I say exactly?”

And , after that discussion, they frame El (before she says “I love you”), strangely. They make El look large and imposing, as she approaches the motionless Mike (who feels both physically & emotionally cornered) .You the viewer, subconsciously are feeling claustrophobic/trapped/and stuck along with Mike. Which is why you are so uncomfortable watching this scene, unfold.

(x)

When she says “I love you”, he looks genuinely confused- or just uncomfortable ( his eyebrows are still scrunched-up).

And then… cue the most awkward kiss in the history as Mike doesn’t kiss her back and keeps his eyes open the whole time… it’s just weird/awkward (sorry).

(x)

We even see El’s reaction , after the kiss (happy, smiling and giddy). But then we blur the screen to see Mike’s opposing expression. He looks confused, bewildered and even furrows his brows again.

And In s2 they insulted the young-girls who are obsessed with mileven (since they can frankly, be the most toxic of the milevens).

In the Montauk pitch (later named Stranger things) they describe the Mike and El dynamic by saying “ If Mike is the Eliot of our show,Eleven is our Et.” (AKA they’re from different planets)

And In s2 , Erica is forcing He-man and barbie to make out. Lucas angrily separates the two. And then this discussion happens.

Erica: “Hey , They’re in love!”

Lucas (livid- and standing right next to a rainbow): “No, actually, they’re not. They don’t even exist on the same planet.”

And again the Duffers have described El in multiple interviews as “similar to ET”, and “like an alien” (even after s3). And in s1, they alluded to El being like “an alien from another planet” by comparing her to ET (with the Reese’s pieces vs eggos moments, the bike-scene, and the makeover).

S3 portrayed mileven as toxic in a myriad of ways. And these other examples, might be stretches, but Mike saying to Max in s2 “How can I hate you, I don’t know you.” could also be a ‘dig’ at mileven.(Because: he knew Max for a week, just as long as El- so how could he hate or love either of them?)

And Mike saying to Dustin incredulously “ You have a bond? Just cause he likes nougat (eggos)?” Could be another subtle jab.

Especially since it’s cannon Mike isn’t the biggest fan of eggos to begin with.

Don’t even get me started at how much the st writing staff- makes fun of mileven - more details about it here. But just one example is when the ‘Stranger writers’ ( the official account of the ST writing staff ) got into a huge text-chain with ‘Stranger Things’ (the official account of the show) where they just low-key dragged mileven together.

Mileven was never meant to be end game-they planned for her to die in season 1 (which I’m glad didn’t happen). But, regardless, it was always supposed to be a simple fleeting crush … but the viewers decided to take it way too seriously. After s3, the Duffers reiterate that mileven is just that.

And the Duffers are smart guys, I bet they’re are 100% aware of how toxic the milevens are to bylers (and how they can also be creepy and harass Finn). Not to mention, as writers, who put so much effort into the show- having people hyper-fixate on mileven (which they don’t even like), instead of the plot must drive them insane.Especially when those shippers can be toxic, homophobic, and entitled. The fact people don’t realize the Duffers hate mileven- is honestly hilarious XD.

#byler #byeler #anti mileven

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