#aboutFenris

[fuckyeahmhawkefenris]

I promised myself that I would never ever bring it up because I have enough stress in my life already and these discussions take up a lot of time and energy and require a lot more witt and eloquence than I posess.

But.

This wound has been out there for many many years, and I feel that now it starts festering again, and since I have taken it upon myself to preserve our history, I feel that it would be simply wrong to remain silent when I have something to say.

So, you probably know I make fenhawke renders in XPS using models extracted from da2.

My Fenris model uses these textures

But I must point out that I had to manually edit them to look like this, because the original game textures look like this:

(I believe they do, because the dude who shared the models only did the extracting, and is not known for editing textures)

Want to know why I did what I did?

Because I spent much much MUCH more time looking at fanart of Fenris, than playing the actual game, and at some point it started feeling wrong to me to have him so pale. My vision of him was influenced by the fandom.

That doesn't change the fact that THAT's how he looks in the game.

Can you see where I'm going with this?

Come and tell me that it's impossible to take him for a generic white dude.

Racism is bad, duh

Whitewashing dark skinned characters is bad, DUH

Many of you may have gotten immersed in the wide world of modding (I can't do it, all known mods change too much about Fenris for my liking, and I need him to have his iconic features), but

can we please stop pretending that Fenris in the original game was obviously depicted as dark skinned?

Because that's some stupid bullshit that has caused and still causes a great number of people, mostly artists (often casual fans), a lot of distress, and outright promotes bullying hiding it behind an image - illusion - of social justice.

Yeah, in 2014 we got Dorian and Krem and some others in DAI, finally seeing what people of Tevinter look like.

But guess what? In 2012 we had no idea, and could only guess. Back then we actually had discussions about this, offering opinions and not being afraid to talk? In 2012 we did not really know how to portray Fenris, and artists made their own choices.

In da2 the only tevinters we encountered were

For the best, probably, because had they been depicted as dark skinned, that would have likely become a case of some very unfortunate implications. Looks pretty hopeless to me, either way.

ETA: and of course I forgot Fenris's SISTER

I'm not saying that racism is not an issue in this fandom. It is, obviously, like anywhere else.

But can you imagine a person who played DA2 (exclusively, without getting into DAO or DAI or trying to explore the fandom and looking at more fanart), taking a liking to Fenris and deciding to make fanart of him and sharing it with the fandom, and then having angry anons come to their ask box accusing them of racism? For depicting Fenris in the only way that is known to them?

Think about it for a minute.

I've witnessed a number of such happenings over my time here, and I've been around since 2012.

If you take the time to look at our old fanart, you'll find various depictions of Fenris. Some darker, some lighter, but back then NOTHING could be considered wrong, because we had too little to go on.

It would have been funny had it not been so bloody SAD to see older pictures circulating the net and read comments filled with rage and hurt over whitewashing brown characters.

I get it, you want to fight for justice, but THIS is not JUSTICE.

That right there is some act 3 Meredith level of lunacy seeing blood magic everywhere and condemning innocent mages.

Before you decide to go harass an artist who made a picture that does not match your vision, take a few minutes to think about how justified it would be. Weigh your options and at least choose your words carefully.

I shudder to think how many potential fans had been put off and turned away from this fandom, left wondering wth is wrong with us.

---

ETA: concerning lighting https://fuckyeahmhawkefenris.tumblr.com/post/772588487945879552

[fuckyeahmhawkefenris]

Fenris: I don’t want your pity. Merrill: Are you talking to me? Fenris: You said you were sorry about the ritual I endured. Keep your sorrow. Merrill: I only meant— Fenris: You have all the freedom none of our kind enjoy, and you throw it away. On what? Merrill: Our people need to reclaim their heritage. Fenris: A heritage of defeat? To what end? Merrill: Would you truly turn your back on your own history? There’s so much we don’t know… Fenris: It’s not my history. It’s simply history. Merrill had everything he ever wanted - freedom, family, the sense of belonging - and she threw it away. Like, let’s be clear - Fenris saved up money for years and tried to contact his sister despite being almost sure it’s a trap. He broke his word, he risked his freedom on this. Before losing memory, he competed in a tournament for experimental markings that could kill him to win freedom for his family. He sacrificed everything he had for them. Merrill had responsibility as a future keeper for her people and she left them. Willingly. For a mirror with a demon. Fenris: Avert your eyes, witch. Merrill: You said I was dwelling on “useless” history, but what are you doing? Merrill: The past is important, to you and to all of us. We must know it to move forward. Fenris: Yet I have made no deal with a demon to learn of my past. Fenris: You had a life. You had a family. And you abandoned them to chase after ghosts. Fenris: We are nothing alike. Don’t even begin to think that we are. To clarify - that’s not jerkward bits yet. It’s where they are coming from. Merrill first compares their markings, then their motivations, and that infuriates him, because the life she left is literally everything he ever wanted. Now the jerk-bits. When the guy from Merrill’s clan runs away from her to get killed by a monster: Merrill: Pol… What was he thinking? … He acted like I was a monster… Fenris: You are a monster. (If Isabela is in the party) Isabela: You aren’t helping. Fenris: Good. What an asshole. And, the ultimate bit: Fenris: This… Keeper of yours, she was a friend? Merrill: She was like a mother to me. To all of us. Fenris: Then I’m sorry. Merrill: No you’re not. She’s just one more mage to you. Why would you be sorry she’s dead? Fenris: I’m not sorry she’s dead. I’m only sorry she died for you. Merrill: What? Fenris: Let’s hope the sacrifice of someone who cared for you that much isn’t wasted. That is the lowest fucking blow in, like, entire game, and it comes from his belief that she doesn’t deserve someone dying for her, someone who was a mother figure to all people that Merrill abandoned. Because he never had anyone willing to protect him. His own sister sold him out to his abuser because the first time he sacrificed himself for her didn’t get her in position of power that she wanted. So that’s the kind of an asshole Fenris is. Not less of a jerk than fanon version, just a very different one. P.S. I HATE plastic wrinkless mod for Fenris. ugh.

unpopular opinion on Fenris?

Been sitting in my drafts for months. I find it very annoying how fandom either depicts Fenris as a pure cinnamon roll or as a swearing yelling asshole who is obsessed with fighting with anders.

Don’t get me wrong, Fenris is absolutely an asshole. He’s just completely different kind of asshole than people portray him as.

For starters, he doesn’t yell. He raises his voice like couple of times at most, when dealing with emotional subjects from his past, like Hadriana. He doesn’t yell at  Anders. Or at anyone in the party, for that matter. He doesn’t swear in common language. His entire big *thing* is that he keeps a calm appearance no matter how angry he is. He has a separate perk in his ability tree about that, for fuck’s sake: “Fenris maintains an appearance of calm, but it is only a facade. Every wound he takes stirs at his deeply buried resentment, increasing his attack damage.”

He’s not the yelling\swearing kind of asshole. He’s a sarcastically dismissive kind of asshole, who will disregard your feelings and harp on the worst consequences of your actions. He’s distantly judgemental in a pretty specific way, where he judges your actions, but rarely with anger, as if he never expected anything good from you anyway.

It’s actually Anders, while namecalling Fenris behind his back with maniac and wild dog and whatnot, who keeps trying to change Fenris’ opinion, to *prove* he’s not weak.

Anders: By now, you must see what an injustice the templars are.

Fenris: Must I? I see templars trying to control what they have good reason to fear.

Anders: But they go too far.

Fenris: Talk to Hawke about his/her mother. Ask him/her who went “too far.”

Anders: You can’t hold all mages responsible for that!

Fenris: It doesn’t take all mages to cause this. Only the weak ones.

───────

Anders: Not all mages are weak.

(If Hawke is a mage)

Fenris: True. Hawke, for instance, is not weak.

(Otherwise)

Fenris: Bethany, for instance, was not weak.

Anders: You specifically don’t mention me.

Fenris: That’s also true.

Anders: I’ll prove to you that I’m not weak

Fenris: Prove it to yourself. You’re convincing no one else.

I mean, Fenris is all “lmao, by all means, drag yourself.” He literally has no fucks to give about Anders. No, the person he’s really being a top-tier jerk to is Merrill. And he doesn’t hate her because she’s a mage, oh no.

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[fuckyeahmhawkefenris]

Since Fenris was a slave it's safe to assume that no one ever -made love- to him. If he were to participate in such activities, it would have been to service someone else. So no one would have tried to make -him- feel good, and until Hawke he likely hadn't known how it may feel. Imagine, when Hawke enters him, he's paying close attention to Fenris's reactions. He is careful and tentative while trying to work out what makes Fenris react.

When he first hits Fenris's sweet spot, he notices Fenris freeze and gasp in surprise. Hawke asks if it's alright, and when Fenris gives a puzzled confirmation Hawke repeats his last movement making Fenris freeze and gasp again. Hawke pauses and looks at him in silent question. Fenris asks him to do it again, and it reassures Hawke. He repeats the move again and again with more certainty, making Fenris moan and wrap his arms and legs around Hawke's body, as if attempting to take more of him inside, to merge with him.

I... need some time to process things...

...

Thank you very much!

[fuckyeahmhawkefenris]

The post that first brought our attention to it got flagged during the Great Purge of 2018, and is thus no longer findable.

Concept arts from Matt Rhodes

[fuckyeahmhawkefenris]

Your recent post about that behemot of a fenhawke fic from good ole days had me thinking.

First, I really love that fic and I'm grateful you unearthed it bc I have lost my old browser bookmarks for DA fics in a horrible accident of misclicking a delete button while transferring them to another folder!!! Imagine my pain.

In general grateful for such a well-curated library of fh content on Tumblr. Thank you!

Second, it all got me thinking about how Fenris' canon arc lacks all this flashy resolution and dramatic magister tricks, but it still works well. Because it's more about overcoming psychological consequences of a traumatic experience. Maybe Danarius isn't actually THAT powerful and Fenris can absolutely take him out even one on one, but to access that strength he needs FRIENDS to back him up, so he doesn't succumb to doubt and fear, that are covered by veneer of anger so thin it shatters immediately if his trust in Hawke is betrayed. It is just so 🤌🤌🤌taste for me for personal reasons. I love his character arc a normal amount.

I actually prefer "you have friends" dialogue option over the romance one, because it is just such a good transition from his past lying in ruins (Varania either dead or rejected, Danarius dead - because lets be real, Fenris' feelings about him were pretty complicated, and his death is also a kind of loss) and then he turns around and he got Hawke and Isabela and Varric and Sebastian and and and. He's more than just his trauma 🥹🥹🥹🤧🤧🤧🤧

Thank you very much! <333

(so sorry for your loss of data! I've always had this deeply ingrained fear of loosing my stuff from the internet, so I'm kind of a freak about preserving it)

Yes, yes, YES, I agree very much!

Oh, I would love to be able to pick the "You have friends" option myself, but I just... can't? I'd had high hopes for it, but in the end it just doesn't cut it for me? In fact, it breaks my heart when Fenris bitterly remarks "Yeah, a mage as my only friend..." WHY. It didn't have to be worded like that! And then, depending on which companions you have in your party it can get even sadder...

Ugh. I figured that Hawke doesn't take it upon himself to speak for anyone but himself (that's a pretty huge thing about his personality), but tbh it's all about Fen's animations. It's just insanely good. How his face lights up through unshed tears, how gently he touches Hawke's face...

Don't get me wrong, I'm all for friendship and comraderie. It's one of the most fundamental, essential parts of my very being... but in this particular case I'm a lost cause ><

Thank you again for your great input! It was lovely to read <3

[fuckyeahmhawkefenris]

I don't understand how his face is that pale in the game files. The arms and chest portions on the side look correct, but even looking at screen caps of the game to see if I was misremembering, I can't find any where he's that shade. Of course, his skin tone does vary a lot based on lighting, but even at its palest, the undertones always seemed to suggest he was a brown man who hadn't gotten much sun in a while. There are scenes where default!Hawke gets close to him in shade, but his undertones look more like a white man with a farmer's tan. Is it possible that there's a missing layer in those resources, given that he's missing his forehead tattoos, or that they're pulled from a scene with The Pearl-quality lighting? Either way, I agree that artists are over-criticized, but I personally just only reblog art where Fenris looks no lighter than what makes sense for the piece's lighting, and I base that on his appearance in game. I wouldn't reblog something where his face looked like that reference photo, because even if a spotlight were shining on him, it doesn't look correct when compared to even the pallor given by lighting in Sundermount. Also, it's worth noting that all the DA2 elves are paler than they should be due to the decision to add blue and green tones to them to make them look even more different from humans. There's a nexus mod that gives all the elves their Origins skin color or just the closest human color from DA2, and Fenris is more noticeably brown, but he doesn't look that much darker than he does in certain scenes of the base game. Overall, though, I think people should keep in mind that brown skin can look significantly lighter depending on long-term sun exposure and that they should compare depictions to the original game before deciding something isn't accurate, especially if they plan on saying something about it. The worst examples of whitewashing in this fandom tend to come from the games themselves, after all. We don't need to jump down independent artist's throats for using references on the fairer side of a character's appearances when Bioware continues to do things like the drastic lightening of Cassandra's skin tone between DA2 and Inquisition.

Thank you for such a thoughtful and well worded response!

(I'm so sorry I can't respond in kind!)

I am totally not qualified to explain anything, really. I only know that lighting can make a huge difference, that at least I can base on my own experience with making pictures.

I have zero knowledge about how they manage lighting in the game, but from my experiences with XPS, the effect can be drastic.

ugh, sorry, I'm not in the right mood to improvise and experiment...

Also, Fenris wasn't supposed to have the three dots tattooed on his forehead, that was only my addition, based on that markings concept art https://fuckyeahmhawkefenris.tumblr.com/post/753715690240950272/the-post-that-first-brought-our-attention-to-it

To be honest, when I dug out the original model's (the one I based my version on) files I was surprised, as I too can't remember Fenris ever looking this pale, which is why I specifically mentioned that I believe these are the original textures, and that's because I trust the guy who shared those models. He simply extracted what was there.

It's totally up to you what kind of fanart you reblog, your reasons are your own. Me, I tend to pay more attention to the overall feel of a piece, and I won't deny that it's my top priority. Some of my choices could be seen as problematic, I guess.

Anyway, I just wanted to remind everyone how this holy war began in the first place, and maybe push them to take a fresh look at it and hopefully ease the tension, if even a little. Well, I already expressed my feelings in my previous post.

[fuckyeahmhawkefenris]

I saw one of your posts and had a question pop into my head.

Does Fenris have a glow in the dark/glowing penis in your opinion?

Aww, thanks for your interest!

Personally, no, I never believed that.

I don't think it would have been wise to encumber your living weapon/ultimate tank that you expect to be invincible with such a vulnerability. I mean, that part is super sensitive from the start, and if we accept the idea that the markings cause Fenris pain constantly... That's just depressing and nothing sexy would ever come of it (for me at least. Chronic pain is definitely not something I'd want to include in my fantasies).

Beyond that, if his markings design derives from a different form of life (spirits), I'd like to think that if they had any reproductive system at all (don't think so!) it would work very differently and wouldn't account for his dick.

[fuckyeahmhawkefenris]

Sorry, i'm stealing these :3

amell crest on the hip is such an insane move i’m not even that much of a fenhawke person but i think about this all the time

[fuckyeahmhawkefenris]

continued here https://fuckyeahmhawkefenris.tumblr.com/post/116641768170/kittypistol-silus-described-leto-as-quiet-but

Fenris, World of Thedas vol II, page 169

[fuckyeahmhawkefenris]

I am serious

From now on I will backspace out of any fic that has Fenris whining and complaining about going to Anders for healing when he is sick or injured just on the ground that he hates magic.

Nope. Done. Sick of it. Not canon. Not sensical. A lazy approach to characterization. I said it. He goes with Anders out on missions for seven fucking years and never objects to being healed once. If you want him to be stoic and nervous about showing weakness around someone he doesn’t fully trust then fine, I can appreciate that, I’ll stick around, but nothing will turn me away from a fic faster than “WOW FENRIS UR GONNA LOSE YOUR LEG AT THIS RATE BETTER GO GET ANDERS” “NUUU HE HAS MAGE COOTIES”

Find a better way to ramp up the drama then nonsensical antagonism. I’m out.

[fuckyeahmhawkefenris]

Oh, yeah! It's so heartwarming! He wanted to be part of a team, he does not enjoy being all alone.

There's so much unused dialogue, though the lines were voiced.

You can hear them all here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sa8CHfVk4IA

These lines start at 16.37

There's a mod for combat dialogue https://www.nexusmods.com/dragonage2/mods/2962?tab=description

Though I don't remember how it works

i can think of maybe 3 different characters who'd say this. none of them are fenris and yet these are all his.

[fuckyeahmhawkefenris]

If Hawke is a mage, then yes, they’re an apostate, but they have magic, which gives them a physical edge. If they’re not a mage, they are human, which gives them an advantage in everything from legal representation to job opportunities. On a more personal level, they can read. They have family and friends. Even if their childhood wasn’t easy, they know what it’s like to have someone care about them and to be able to trust another person without fear of abuse. If Hawke is at least 25 years old when they meet, Hawke has more than double Fenris’ life-experience.

If Hawke agrees to help Fenris, they become the spool around which his support network – the only one he has ever had – revolves. It’s Hawke friends who help Fenris keep the mansion; it’s Aveline and Varric who keep both the guards and the criminal element off Fenris’ back; it’s Hawke and co who help him out when Hadriana tries to recapture him etc. To give you a comparison, if Hawke refuses to help Anders, he manages on his own. Fenris…doesn’t. More than that, however, Fenris has never known compassion. He tells (a diplomatic) Hawke in the alienage that he has hardly met anyone not out for personal gain, which says a lot about his experiences with ppl up to that point. Basically, his entire engagement with the world as a non-threatening place is based on his interactions with Hawke.

This means that rejection by Hawke – let alone abandonment – doesn’t just hurt his feelings. It decimates any scrap of security he has ever known. Like I said to a friend of mine, when Fenris tells Hawke about regaining and losing his memories and not being ready for a relationship, you can practically hear the voice screaming in his head, asking what he’s doing; how dare he be honest after everything Hawke has done for him; who’s going to protect him against Danarius now? But still, he’s honest, because his integrity is the only thing he has.

Even after 6 years, Fenris is left defenceless unless Hawke helps him against Danarius. Hawke’s friends may protest if Fenris is handed back, but not one of them will lift a finger to intervene. Imo, the most important thing to remember is that his views on magic are based on PERSONAL EXPERIENCE. The worst thing in fandom is reading fic/seeing art that punishes him for this. Anders says at one point that he is letting “one bad experience” colour his whole world, but the fact is, for much of his life, that has been the ONLY experience he has had.

I’m not saying that Hawke is not vulnerable in their own right (my Hawke is his own special brand of screwed up) but no matter how you spin it, Fenris is ALWAYS the one with the most to lose.

I did a post on the FenHawke power dynamic and I’ve gotten a bunch of asks from ppl wanting some clarification. The askers requested that I reply privately (which I do anyway) but if anyone’s interested, here’s the response:

Fenris is probably the most vulnerable character in the entire game. At the most fundamental level, he is an elf from Tevinter. Elves inThedas already have a crappy time of it, but being from Tevinteris that much worse, because his people are by default seen asslaves. They can literally be killed for entertainment purposes without anyonegetting into trouble over it. This is the kind of fear that Tevinter slaves live with every day.

Because of his memory loss, Fenris has less than a decade of life experience to fall back on and the experience he DOES have involved being completely under another person’s control – i.e. Danarius, who used Fenris as both his hired killer and sex toy (as stated by the author and heavily suggested by in-game narrative…and seriously, LOOK at him. If all Danarius wanted was a “bodyguard” he’d get an 8 foot IB type who could swat his enemies with a closed fist, not the “pretty anime elf”).

This means that when Fenris meets Hawke, the vast bulk of his life experience is based on exploitation, fear and abuse which is not great for one’s mental health. Fenris basically says in-game that the decision to run from Danarius was the first autonomous choice he could remember making.

He is not used to thinking for himself, but suddenly he is thrust into a situation where every decision he makes has potential life-or-death consequences. Everything he knows has been pulled out from under him. He is illiterate, so the only way for him to get any sort of information is by word of mouth. This exposes him to further exploitation and also means that he ends up leaving a trail of witnesses in his wake for the hunters to interrogate. He has no money, no support system, and only the clothes on his back and a sword with which to survive.

He carries on this way for 3 years, which is guaranteed to exacerbate any existing PTSD he has, of which he shows several symptoms in the game. When he meets Hawke, he is at his low point. Contrary to what ppl claim, Fenris never lies to Hawke. Not even once. Anso deceived Hawke, but the very first words out of Fenris’ mouth is an apology and a confession. Unlike Anders, Fenris has no leverage whatsoever. He is completely alone. There are no Ferelden refugees that’ll get mad if he disappears. He doesn’t have a Deep Roads map to use to get Hawke’s help. If Hawke wants to, they can kill him there in the alienage without any adverse consequences – and that remains true for the entirety of the game. All Fenris can do is beg, and if that fails then he’s left to slink away and probably get devoured by demons, which brings me to Hawke…

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