#additionally if you still want to believe in the post apocalypse theory:

[cosmignon]

Pikmin headcanon: If any of the captains or castaways or rescue corps ect ect ext ever came across a human they would not immediately register that this is a person or even a beast.

They'll record in their logs like "Discovered a mysterious landmark that moves across the planes of this land like nothing I've seen before. I thought perhaps it was some form of alien transportation, but there were no riders within it, or even other creatures, when I scanned it on my radar. It has since vanished without a trace."

and it was like a normal man walking through a hiking trail.

They are not exactly incomprehensible but they are not being percieved as a people and no one's making the connections to start exploring that thought bc what kind of horrible beast could ever be THAT big. Not possible! Unbelievable! your scientific credibility is shoddy at best.

[nofive]

Five’s Bedroom

I have done a headcanon about brief observations I have made on Five’s bedroom before. I have also talked about things in his bedroom in a few other headcanons. But this will be delving into the canon state of Five’s childhood room, and his area in the Apocalypse to get a sense for how Five is as a person and a bit more of what he was like as a child.

Also fair warning, this post is long, and their are lots of big images. If you want, I am tagging this post with a special tag “Five’s Bedroom Meta” so that you can block it if you do not wish to scroll through it on your dash. All images that have adjusted brightness was purely to enhance the background of the image.

Like with everything I may add on to this as time goes by.

The bare bones, no deep diving yet ( Five’s Childhood Room )

Based off multiple images from the Making of TUA book, the show itself, and Aidan’s behind the scenes pictures I’ve put together a very basic floor plan of Five’s room ( please don’t make fun of my handwriting ). I don’t know about y’all but I feel like Five’s door needs to be at a til like Allison and Luther’s. But its not. So this floor plan basically gives a layout of his room in general. Its not to scale obviously, but it gives us a good starting off point. One thing I would like to note, that I think is only applicable to Five’s room as that there are two doors much like Reginald’s office, which I will touch on a bit later. Not drawn are the at least four lamps, one on his desk, one on the small bookshelf by his bed, and one on his nightstand, he has at least two sconces one on the wall near the closet, and one on the wall near the blue chair, he also has a main light fixture with at least three bulbs. But it is simply his closet, a very small closet at that.

Five’s bedroom has two windows, one that leads to a fire escape, which is next to his bed on the wall with the slanted roof. Both windows have radiators beneath them that Five utilizes as shelving. On the slanted wall side of his room Five’s bed is pushed not quite into the corner as he has a small bookshelf there that has more toys on it than books, and has a chest at the foot of his bed, and then he has his bookshelf which due to the slanted wall has the appearance of a built in.

Five’s desk and desk chair are on the same wall as his closet, though his desk chair being on wheels can move about. Above the desk are a set of shelves, Luther’s room has something very similar, with a set of towels and his toiletries. Five’s towels are blue, Luther’s appear to be tan or brown. If I had to guess all the siblings have different colors of towels. Next to his desk in between it and the bookshelf is a basket that appears to have a white board, and a fireman’s hat. There is also a possible laundry basket on the other side of his desk closer to the closet.

On the wall that has the main door to his room you have his wardrobe or armoire. we know thanks to Klaus that this houses jackets, possibly that snazzy coat and scarf from the bank as well as various toys namely baseballs. I know there is a baseball bat in his room but I cannot find a picture of it. Also I should note, I have no idea what is rapped in that white sheet looking thing.

On the other side of the door we have his dresser. The door funnily enough has a window up top sort of akin to an office door implying that Five’s room did in fact used to be an office. In fact the way it’s styled makes it seem like it could be a 1920s styled Private Investigator office. The dresser has a dart board above it that he takes down to write his equations and then puts it back up despite not putting anything else back on the walls. In front of the dress and the second window is a blue chair that we see Delores occupy while Grace patches up his Shrapnel wound she is sitting on his blue desk chair. Next to the radiator under the window we have Five’s nightstand.

The walls of Five’s bedroom are all painted a minty green color. So is all the triming including the the window seal ledges. The only non-painted areas are the bricks under the slanted roof/wall of his room and the boarder wallpaper.

The Deep Dive

So that takes us around his room, now lets actually delve into those pictures and what we see in them. So lets start at the beginning with the closet. To my knowledge Five is the only one with a closet in his room, and a second door. I only bring this up because the parallels and similarities between Five and Reginald is very obvious. And we know Reginald’s office has two doors. I just think that is interesting, not to mention Five’s bedroom was very likely an old office based on how The Academy is multiple buildings together. I should also note that based on the scene when Five is escaping onto the fire escape the window that is not on the slanted wall portion of his room shouldn’t have light coming into it because another building butts up to it.

Five’s bedroom is actually quite large accented with blue of varying shades from the carpet to his main comforter, to his desk chair, pillows, curtains, and his secondary chair. All the wood in his room is a light walnut color. And his doors are painted this minty green color. His second comforter looks to be navy, white, and red plaid. The fact that he has a second comforter that is used means not only has Grace changed his sheets, but he likely has slept in them, which means he likely did sleep. I only say its second comforter and not a blanket because we know Five has a chest at the foot of his bed with a blanket on it that could have been used. The chest likely has his extra bedding in it though. On Five’s bedside table he has a stack of what appears to be text books, but they seem more like workbooks of some sort. So think like SAT prep books. He also has a set of what appears to be five novels on his nightstand, and some sort of CD player or maybe a dehumidifier. 

The blanket as you can see has planets, a moon, and a spaceship on it, which is pretty on par for things that Five likes. All over his room, and in these images you can see images of robots on his walls. Particularly you can see comic drawings of robots. He has a rock-em sock-em robot poster on his wall. He even has a robot on his bookshelf by his desk. Five has a fascination with robots. Which could foreshadow his relationship with Delores, and perhaps something of his relationship with Grace, liking wanting to know how she works. Also foreshadowing of Five and Delores is quite literally in the wallpaper boarder above the chair rail which has a kid pulling a red wagon with a mannequin in them.

Additionally we see lots of building blocks particularly on the bookshelf next to Five’s bed. Five is very hands on when it comes to his hobbies. He has means of transportation all over his room which could make sense given his power, but it could also give him a connection to Luther seeing as Luther also has airplanes and cars in his room. Five has boats, and cars all over his room. Further he also has lots of construction toys including an excavator and a cement truck. On top of his wardrobe he has a sail boat and a covered wagon. He also has a poster of a motorcyle or moped on his wall. If Five had stayed behind he would have been the first to learn how to drive for sure.

From first glance Five’s room seems super organized. But when you actually look at it, its not. Books in particular are stacked where he can stack them. The binders on his desk are initially upside down, and someone put them right side up, I would guess Luther as he is messing around Five’s desk to look for things. Five works in an organized chaos we see this from his equations as he writes over the boarder and such We later see this echoed in his Apocalypse home.

When it comes to other things Five has a few knick knacks all of them are travel based, saved for one. I’ve mentioned the toys. The one I’m referring to can be seen on his desk and I believe it is a nautical instrument used to help measure distance and time or speed. I could be wrong. But it is on Five’s desk along with what appears to be homework of some sort in the trays. He’s also got a stapler on his desk which I simply find ironic.

The one knick knack he has that isn’t related specifically to travel is a wooden basket that has busted up watches. Pocket watches, wrist watches, etc. They are old, and are not digital. My theory on this is that at one point he attempted to use the watch to magnify his power, particularly that of Time Travel. But they kept breaking, but it only fueled his theory that he could do it. This is also a call back to the comic where Five as a kid is always shown to have a pocket watch.

Briefly on his closet, which is best pictured above. It is small. Also it appears to only hold his uniforms, which by the way he is going through them makes him seem like he should have more clothes and he can’t find them. This implies Five does have civvies or street clothes but they have been lost over time which would make Five’s “Shit” make much more sense. Its not that he only has uniforms as his option, its that he can’t find his civilian clothes.

Last but not least the dart board. I do have a headcanon about it. But the fact that you can see the equations go behind the dart board on the wall means he put it back up. Five in the original pilot script had a love of knives quite like Diego. My guess is the dart board is a call to that. But we also know Five is super competitive and I think he tries to get accurate with throwing knives to beat Diego. Also we know that Five has Diego’s knife holster in the apocalypse so Five liking knives is not just a original pilot script thing. 

The Comparison ( his Apocalypse Home Base )

Five’s apocalypse home base ironically takes on many similar characteristics of Five’s bedroom. Meaning the core of who Five is has not changed. He has a love for learning, partially cause he is literally creating new math, but he has a desk still, and he still stacks books haphazardly. He also has his chalkboard which seems to be Five’s favorite way of doing math. I theorize its because he’s working on things that are so large he needs more room than paper can provide. Also paper is hard to come by in the apocalypse, at least blank paper is because he uses Vanya’s book. Five has a habit of placing important things on places he can easily see and find. Such as the probability map ending above his bed, and the equation on his chalk board likely ending up in his copy of Vanya’s book.

Final Thoughts

So what are my final thoughts? I think the making of TUA book has got Five pinned all wrong. Five’s room is sparse because he left early, but not because he didn’t have hobbies or time to decorate it. He clearly did. Five like athletics at least baseball, and he had an interest in robots, comics, and transportation. He also likes building as he has blocks and potentially even legos. The transportation could be an extension of him getting to know his power, maybe. But we know Luther is very similar with transportation just of the aerospace kind and we know that’s likely not related to his power ( unless you include my headcanon that his main power is actual gravity manipulation ). Five had interests and was even starting to personalize his room before he left, he also had an imagination seeing as the fireman’s helmet is still readily out and available to play which plays into Delores being part of his active imagination and becoming the imaginary friend he needs to stay somewhat sane in the apocalypse.

Five’s room tells us of a boy who was active, and had interests, and he still has a liking for those interests as we see him unable to help himself and play with one of the trucks during the show. It gives us a brief look into the boy that we truly know very little about. Because while we have so much of his story displayed for us, we have so little of what he was like before. He has toys and things all over his room with no real rhyme or reason as to why things are placed in certain areas. It makes sense to him obviously, but it is not the key organized thing you would expect. If it was all his trucks would be in one place for example.

We also can see Five is a bit more chaotic than his room implies on first glance. From both the Apocalypse and his kid bedroom Five has a habit of stacking books a bit haphazardly and storing things also a bit haphazardly as seen by the crate on top of his wardrobe, and the fact that he has stuff just piled into said wardrobe that comes tumbling out when Klaus does.

When it comes to his room location I believe it is on the third floor above Allison and Luther’s, on the second, and Klaus, Vanya, and Diego’s on the lower floor. Since we don’t know where Ben’s room is and the door across from Five’s is always shut, I do think that that is likely where Ben’s room was. But according to Five there are 42 Bedrooms in the place so it could be anywhere really.

Five’s room, like Five himself hides behind a layer of sparsity. You have to give him more than a cursory glance to know what is really going to get him deep down.

[aion-rsa]

Marvel’s Loki Episode 3: MCU Easter Eggs and References

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This article contains Marvel’s Loki episode 3 spoilers.

Marvel’s Loki episode 3 is a big one. It’s the first episode of the series to spend the entirety of its runtime outside of the TVA offices, the first where we get to spend a substantial amount of time with the mysterious Sylvie, and the coolest visit to an extraterrestrial location we’ve had in the MCU since Avengers: Endgame.

It’s a big one, and there’s lots of cool MCU things you might have missed, or might not know about from the pages of Marvel Comics…and more!

Here’s what we found in Marvel’s Loki episode 3. 

Lamentis

The planet Lamentis was introduced in the pages of Annihilation: Conquest Prologue (the very story that established the modern incarnation of the Guardians of the Galaxy). It exists on the outer rim of the Kree empire and is filled with scavengers trying to gather scarce resources via force. The Phyla-Vell version of Quasar and Moondragon were there to help keep the peace, mainly protecting a sect of pacifist priests from those who would take their stuff.

But to be clear, the events of Loki episode 3 take place on Lamentis-1, a moon of Lamentis, and it’s the planet itself that is breaking up and crashing into the moon, not the other way around.

Interestingly, while the lighting choices for this episode were most definitely a very specific story choice (more on that in a minute), it’s also in keeping with the way Lamentis was colored in its only comic book appearance.

Sylvie, Lady Loki, The Enchantress

We don’t get a TON of clarity on the nature of Sophia Di Martino’s Loki variant, but despite her “Sylvie” name, the balance is tipping further in the direction of her being a true “Lady Loki” and not strictly the Sylvie Lushton version of Enchantress from Marvel Comics (we wrote more about this confusing distinction here).

That being said, she’s not NOT Sylvie/Enchantress, either! It seems that Sylvie is indeed a variant Loki (recent merchandise reveals have officially shown that she is “Sylvie Laufeydottir” (as opposed to “Loki Laufeyson”)  so that’s another sign that she’s truly a variant of our Loki. For some reason (probably a good one) she doesn’t want to be known as a Loki anymore, hence “Sylvie,” and she does use enchantments as a primary power, hence “Enchantress.”

So the answer here is still “yes” to any of these questions, but we’re leaning on the simplest explanation being the correct one: she’s a Loki variant, and in true MCU fashion they’re just mashing up other elements of mythology from the comics to make a cool new character.

There’s also some serious Moonlighting energy between the hedonistic Loki and the more serious and on-mission Sylvie all through this episode, but we’re wondering how many of you are even old enough to remember Moonlighting, and that is depressing. 

The Loki/Enchantress-appropriate green tie-dye that Sylvie is rocking in the bar “flashback” is pretty cool, but not an Easter egg. But maybe we should bring tie-dye back this summer.

Loki is Bisexual

The “bisexual lighting” that Lamentis is bathed in throughout the entirety of the episode is no accident, as it’s revealed that both Loki and Sylvie are bisexual. Loki director Kate Herron spoke briefly about this reveal on Twitter, as well:

From the moment I joined @LokiOfficial it was very important to me, and my goal, to acknowledge Loki was bisexual. It is a part of who he is and who I am too. I know this is a small step but I’m happy, and heart is so full, to say that this is now Canon in #mcu #Loki 💗💜💙 pic.twitter.com/lz3KJbewx8

— Kate Herron (@iamkateherron) June 23, 2021

As far as we can tell, in terms of the comics, Loki’s bisexuality first came up in Young Avengers #15. After saving the world and getting a bit of a pep talk from Prodigy, a late-teen incarnation of Loki hit on his teammate for the sake of celebration, but was ultimately turned down.

“My culture doesn’t really share your concept of sexual identity,” Loki said in that issue. “There are sexual acts, that’s it. I’m actually the patron god of certain popular ones, believe it or not.” (some very cursory research fails to confirm that last point, which would really be perfectly in keeping for Loki to lie about)

“Another!”

When partying up on the train, Loki smashes his empty glass and excitedly asks for another. This is exactly what his brother does in the first Thor movie after enjoying a cup of coffee at a diner. It’s an Asgardian custom!

The Songs

The song that opens the episode is “Demons” by Hayley Kiyoko, which also includes some potentially Loki-specific lines as “Please forgive me, I’ve got demons in my head, tryin’ to eat me, tryin’ to feed me lies until I’m dead.”

The song that closes the episode is “Dark Moon,” a 1957 country hit by Bonnie Guitar (there are other versions, including a rare one by Elvis Presley and a really cool one by Chris Isaak for the soundtrack of the very cool and underrated A Perfect World, but the version here is Bonnie’s). It’s a little on-the-nose with the events happening on Lamentis, but also features haunting lyrics that may hint at something more: “Mortals have dreams of love’s perfect schemes, but they don’t realize that love will sometimes bring a…Dark Moon.”

Does anyone know the name of the song that Loki sings while he’s “full?” If so, please let us know in the comments!

The TVA

The mobile devices that TVA agents use to navigate through timelines are given a name in this episode: TemPads. 

We get a couple more bits of important TVA context this episode. The first is that apparently the Time Keepers reside at the top floor accessible by a golden elevator in the TVA offices. When Hunter C-20 said she “gave up the location” of the Time Keepers last week, who could have expected the answer to be so simple?

Additionally, Sylvie reveals at episode’s end that all TVA employees had a life prior to joining the TVA. In fact, every TVA worker was at some point a Variant just like Loki and Sylvie. This directly contradicts Miss Minutes’ claim that the TVA employees were created by the Time Keepers to police the Sacred Timeline. This may mean that Mobius was also lying to Loki about the nature of TVA agents…UNLESS…in the comics, Mobius was one of many Mobiuses, because the TVA engaged in “managerial cloning” for their best representatives, while employing “freelancers” for other work. Perhaps Mobius was telling Loki his truth, while Sylvie’s theory about the Variants being conscripted into service as Minutemen is ALSO true.

During the end credits, there’s a collection of TVA file photos on a desk, showing Loki and Sylvie together. Apparently, they’re getting their images from their exploits from Lamentis-1, as one photo is specifically Loki as a train guard. Looks like these two aren’t as hidden from the authorities as they realized.

Miscellaneous Time Variants

Funny enough, the shot of Loki landing after being thrown out of the train is framed to look exactly like when Loki fell out of Doctor Strange’s portal in Thor: Ragnarok.

The two soldiers at the entrance to the train are called Corporal Hicks and Private Hudson which is a neat nod to Michael Biehn and Bill Paxton’s characters in Aliens!

The guards on Lamentis look kind of like they’re wearing Cobra uniforms, don’t they?

There’s a serious Snowpiercer vibe to that “rich folks getting on a train to escape a natural disaster/apocalypse while the poor are left to suffer and die.” Wait, that is actually a real life vibe, too.

If episode 2 was a police procedural, this episode is very much “peak TV,” right down to its use of an obscure needledrop to end the episode coming out of an elaborate “one take” action sequence. Daredevil no longer has a monopoly on those in Marvel TV, it would seem.

cnx.cmd.push(function() { cnx({ playerId: "106e33c0-3911-473c-b599-b1426db57530", }).render("0270c398a82f44f49c23c16122516796"); });

Spot something we missed? Let us know in the comments!

The post Marvel’s Loki Episode 3: MCU Easter Eggs and References appeared first on Den of Geek.

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[allatariel]

Beth and Saint Catherine of Alexandria

I wrote this nearly three years ago and it has been languishing in my google docs waiting to be made tumblr-ready ever since. I have not updated the content appreciably, so it may very well contain outdated theories or speculations long since proven false or at the very least ill-timed, but it feels like unfinished business. I'd rather realease it into the wild than delete all this work. To my knowledge, no one else has yet touched on at least the visual connections herein, but I have been out of touch with TWD and the fandom for a few years now, for various reasons. Thank you for your indulgence.

Apologies if I'm rehashing old information; I looked and couldn't find anything like this, but maybe I ain't looking right.

Special thanks to @bethgreenewarriorprincess and @bethgreeneishopeunseen for listening to me ramble about this and all your help!

The image below of Beth waking up in the hospital never appeared in the show, but has been used often promotionally (here, here, and here for a start), even years later (on August 7, 2016) with the tweet of the Beth's Journey video originally posted to YouTube on November 30, 2014 after 5x08 Coda aired.

She looks altogether more beatific than Rick did in roughly the same situation. See how the light, almost heavenly in nature, illuminates her clean face, smooth brow, and shiny hair and reflects in her eyes, giving them a diffused look, as though she’s looking at something no one else can see, like an apparition. Contrast this with Rick bathed in wan light, sweaty and unkempt, his brow furrowed in confusion and dawning alarm, as he takes in the evidence of neglect in the room around him that is plain for us to see in the ensuing shots.

I knew I'd seen this image somewhere before, and I know it's a very typical depiction of beatific passion, many examples of which can be found in religious art and throughout art history (e.g., here, here, here, and here). But it specifically looks, to me, most like Raphael's Saint Catherine of Alexandria. (for an additional analysis of Beth's saintly framing supported by connections to another saint, St. Mary Frances, see here)

This is a cropped screenshot of the full image found on Wikipedia. Note that another depiction by Caravaggio, whose The Denial of Saint Peter figures very prominently in 5x04 Slabtown (for an analysis of the use of this painting in 5x04, see here), is linked from that page and vice versa, but not any other artist's versions, of which there are many (see here, here, and here for a few). (It is also interesting to note that Caravaggio's The Denial of Saint Peter is housed at the Metropolitan Museum of Art in New York City, and though it has toured, it has never been exhibited at the High Museum of Art in Atlanta, Georgia. The High does have another painting titled The Denial of St. Peter in its collection, which was painted some twenty years later by Nicolas Tournier who was influenced by Caravaggio's work.)

Saint Catherine of Alexandria is a bit of a mythic figure; the following summary of her life is quoted from the Wikipedia page for her, with citations included linked within.

Legend

According to the traditional narrative, Catherine was the daughter of Constus, the governor of Alexandrian Egypt during the reign of the emperor Maximian (286–305).[6] From a young age she had devoted herself to study. A vision of the Madonna and Child persuaded her to become a Christian. When the persecutions began under Maxentius, she went to the emperor and rebuked him for his cruelty. The emperor summoned fifty of the best pagan philosophers and orators to dispute with her, hoping that they would refute her pro-Christian arguments, but Catherine won the debate. Several of her adversaries, conquered by her eloquence, declared themselves Christians and were at once put to death.[7]

Torture and martyrdom Catherine was then scourged and imprisoned, during which time over 200 people came to see her, including Maxentius' wife, Valeria Maximilla; all converted to Christianity and were subsequently martyred.[8] Upon the failure of Maxentius to make Catherine yield by way of torture, he tried to win the beautiful and wise princess over by proposing marriage. The saint refused, declaring that her spouse was Jesus Christ, to whom she had consecrated her virginity. The furious emperor condemned Catherine to death on a spiked breaking wheel, but, at her touch, it shattered.[7] Maxentius finally had her beheaded.

Burial A tradition dating to about 800 states that angels carried her corpse to Mount Sinai. Her body was discovered around the year 800 at Mount Sinai, with hair still growing and a constant stream of healing oil issuing from her body.[9] In the 6th century, the Eastern Emperor Justinian had established what is now Saint Catherine's Monastery in Egypt (which is in fact dedicated to the Transfiguration of Christ).

She is generally believed to have been eighteen at the time of her death. Her feast day is November 25, and in celebration of this day in France, unmarried women pray for her intercession to find them husbands. These unmarried women are referred to as “Catherinettes” and their friends make elaborate hats, or bonnets, for them, using the colors yellow for faith and green for wisdom. The Catherinettes are crowned with these bonnets and make pilgrimages to St. Catherine’s statue in their local churches. Also of note and pertaining to France, she is believed to have appeared to Joan of Arc.

Saint Catherine has patronage over many things; because of her chastity, she is the patroness of unmarried women; because of her scholarship and skill in debate, she is the patroness of apologists, archivists, educators, female students, jurists, lawyers, librarians, libraries, philosophers, preachers, scholars, schoolchildren, scribes, secretaries, stenographers, and theologians; because of her association with the breaking wheel and wheels in general, she is the patroness of craftsmen who work with a wheel (potters, spinners), mechanics, millers, and wheelwrights; because of her beheading, she is patroness of knife sharpeners; because of her martyrdom, she is the patroness of dying people and nurses; because of a tradition in France on her feast day relating to her patronage of unmarried women, she is patroness of milliners, hat-makers, tanners, and haberdashers.

She is associated with a number of items, or attributes, and when depicted in art these items are often shown with her. A crown, either atop her head or at her feet, denoting her royal birth; a book, held open or closed in her hands, and perhaps her arguing with the pagan philosophers denoting her eloquence and wisdom; a bridal veil and ring denoting her mystical marriage to Jesus Christ; a dove as one legend states she was fed by a dove while imprisoned; a scourge, the breaking wheel, either whole or itself broken at her touch, and the sword that finally ended her life by decapitation; (hailstones are also listed in places, I got nothing). The type of firework known as the Catherine wheel is named for her.

Additional references for information about Saint Catherine of Alexandria can be found here, here, here, and here.

And now for the parallels, the reason I’m boring you all (all two of you) with these details about a long dead, and likely entirely legendary figure.

Like Saint Catherine, Beth is the daughter of a leader. Hershel Greene, initially of the Greene family farm and later of the prison. Before the fall of civilization, Beth was a student and after she doesn’t start out understanding what’s really going on in the apocalypse. When faced with it, she thinks she wants to die, but when she tries to kill herself she has an epiphany and chooses to live; this is rather like Saint Catherine’s path to conversion, in how she devotes her life to learning, then experiences a vision and becomes Christian.

Beth was “imprisoned” in Grady Memorial Hospital, was beaten, but never broken. Carol and the others "visited her" in her prison and she converted people, like Noah and Dr. Edwards, to another way of thinking. She broke their system by challenging it and getting Dawn killed after having killed the biggest offenders, Gorman and O'Donnell. She was shot, but didn’t die. Saint Catherine was imprisoned and tortured, many came to visit her and were converted. They tried to execute her and she not only survived, she broke the tool of her execution, symbolically breaking their system. Both were eighteen at the time of their imprisonment and attempted execution.

Beth was carried out of the hospital by Daryl, who wears angel wings, and left in a trunk after running from 800 walkers. She wasn't dead so her body would not corrupt. Additionally, she is immune to the infection and incorruptible by it (another way she “breaks the wheel” by breaking the infection). Her immunity will be the source of the cure and thus heal others. Saint Catherine's body was carried to Mount Sinai by angels and was found incorrupt and issuing healing oil in the year 800.

The mystical marriage of Saint Catherine is interesting; one variation on her conversion involves her search for a husband that matched her in intellect, nobility, and beauty and a hermit in the desert who, after a vision of Jesus Christ and the Virgin Mary, went to Saint Catherine and told her of the spouse she desired. This hermit eventually baptised her, preparing her for her mystical marriage to Jesus. C@rol, who was a hermit for a while, brought Beth’s knife (an attribute of Saint Catherine, a small sword) to Daryl, giving him his lady’s favor, essentially marrying them (more here).

Saint Catherine’s reason for her refusal of the offer of marriage from the man who was trying to have her executed makes me think of the metas about 4x12 Still and the blood splatter on the white sweater foreshadowing Beth losing her virginity with Daryl (here and here, though there are more). I can just imagine Negan asking her to join his harem and Beth refusing by saying she's already promised to someone.

Bonus connections!

Beth’s father, Hershel, was beheaded with a sword like Saint Catherine; I know this isn’t a direct parallel as this happened to her father and not her, but I think the connection is solid enough with him being her father and her having watched it happen.

The spoked breaking wheel rather resembles a clock, which is heavily connected with Beth.

Saint Catherine appeared to Joan of Arc and counseled her; in 5x04 Slabtown Beth brought some small comfort to Joan during her confinement after her amputation.

Coda aired on November 30, the Sunday following Saint Catherine’s feast day of November 25.

Saint Catherine is a patroness of mechanics, and Daryl, Beth’s apocalypse husband, is the mechanic of the group (bonus bonus, he rides motorcycles which have spoked wheels like the breaking wheel).

The blond walker in the yellow wheelchair (mentioned here, here, and here, towards the bottom in all three) with the wounded left foot in 4x06 Live Bait is connected with Beth through her signature yellow color and wounded left foot in 5x13 Alone, and the spoked wheels of the wheelchair resemble the breaking wheel, symbolically representing the hospital and foreshadowing her breaking of it.

In Raphael’s Saint Catherine of Alexandria, there is a braid in Catherine's hair that starts at her left temple; Beth often wore a braid on the left side in her ponytail.

The traditional colors of the bonnets made for the Catherinettes celebrating Saint Catherine’s day in France were yellow for faith and green for wisdom; Beth has been strongly associated with yellow and faith and her last name is Greene. Also both she and her father have been associated with wisdom.

Not to mention the St. Catherine of ALEXANDRIA thing.

The final parallel I would like to highlight is the breaking of the wheel as the breaking of the cycle the show is currently stuck in, like a pair of millstones, the runner stone circling on the bedstone seemingly endlessly. The official synopsis for season 7 says “This half season is about these characters starting over. The overall theme of the season is beginning again.” The first episode of season 6 was called First Time Again. In season 5 after Terminus they begin again together. The Governor destroys the prison and they are forced to begin again, scattered. How many times will we take it once again from the top, everyone? (Washington D.C. = D.C. = da Capo, anyone? “Da Capo” is Italian for “from the head” and shares the same Latin root with “decapitate.”)

I mean, that's what the comic has done, over and over and over again; the war with the governor, All Out War, The Whisperer War—same shit different day. Abraham references this in his speech in 5x02 Strangers, “Wake up in the morning, fight the undead pricks, forage for food, go to sleep at night with two eyes open, rinse and repeat?” as encouragement to get them to join his mission to D.C.

Beth’s return is a way to break that cycle for the show—in the endless string of deaths and losses, finally they get someone back.

Morgan says, “People can come back, Rick.” in 6x15 East. Morgan says it to Rick just like Rick said it to the governor when he came to take the prison. Rick says, "Everyone who's alive right now. Everyone who's made it this far. We've all done the worst kinds of things just to stay alive. But we can still come back. We're not too far gone. We get to come back. I know... we all can change." in 4x08 Too Far Gone.

In 6x15 East, Morgan also says, "It—it's all a circle. Everything gets a return." Everything comes full circle with Beth’s survival, she’s not just “another dead girl” as she says in 4x12 Still.

The circle, the cycle, the wheel—Beth will break the wheel just like St. Catherine of Alexandria. Once more from the beginning, but skip to a different ending (da Capo al Coda).

[sanoiro]

I was watching 3x09-10 today with my husband (he's trying to catch up and watch the finale when it airs 😊) and he has this theory (sorry if it was discussed before, I couldn't find it). What if Pierce (the first murderer) really is trying to make Lucifer kill a human (as you said on a post the other day) and turn him into the first angel murderer. Maybe he knows something we don't about the repercussions of that? Idk... Just a thought.

First of all, I love your husband! 

Now, this might be a long post I have no idea yet but I read you Ask when I was just about to go to bed and something just stuck with me although I forced myself to sleep instead of replying you. Good thing I did because now I’m feeling like I can analyse anything you tell me to. 

Okay, so long ago I had posted Lucifer’s line from S2 where he said that judgment day is only a couple of years away. 

So I always thought what if Lucifer and Chloe had something to do with it? If we think about it Mum almost caused the end of the word. Last night I also wrote a post where I was thinking that perhaps the 3x16 line on the jock the princess and the nerd corresponded to Dan, Charlotte and Ella because as far as I see it, everyone will have an important task in their hands and some may even fall because of that. I’m mentioning the above because I made a weird connection last night… Can Lucifer by killing a human start an apocalypse? I’m not sure and I doubt we will get there but there is something that I overlooked as it didn’t make much sense at the beginning. The Z prophesy said that the magma of the Earth is blocked and if the magma was not released soon we would have a big magma apocalypse. 

This may sound a bit overstretched but… What is holding Lucifer’s Devil face back or worse his eyes? Why do they glow amber and only two times this season? Was the dagger the only way to let out his light-bringing power? I always believed that his red glowing eyes since S1 were a sign of that power within him. As you may have guessed I’’m wondering on whether Marcus is trying to manipulate something inside of Lucifer. His purpose might have never been to die… Perhaps a revenge then towards God’s favourite son? 

I still don’t buy the favourite was Amenadiel and I presume that Marcus knows that. I have mentioned the following question before that the metal book in S2 was written by whom exactly?  It was written in Sumerian according to Amenadiel and remember what Lucifer said in 3x16 regarding Abel? 

Lucifer: Whilst this is all very illuminating, Maze, how do we find Abel? Keep an ear out for someone babbling in Sumerian? - Lucifer 3x16Lucifer: So whatever language this is- Amenadiel: It’s Sumerian. Unlike some of us who had everything handed to him, I actually spent my youth studying. - Lucifer 2x17

Again who wrote the book that dates back to Abel’s murder according to the timeline Lucifer gives us? Or better yet who was still alive to write it? Cain. At least that’s what I see here. 

If all the above are true what does that tell us about Marcus so far?

- He knows more about divinity and mystical objects than Lucifer, Amenadiel and even Mum. -He knew about the medallion of life and perhaps he has possed himself with it in order to acquire that knowledge as the page of the medallion was at the left side of the book and the flaming sword at the right side. -He knows about Lucifer’s light-brining power. -He knows who the favourite son is… 

But let’s go a bit further. 

Marcus in 3x12 - All About Her, told Lucifer that when he found out that a human had made the Devil bleed so he had to check and that he had high hopes because that would help him find a way to die. I believe that all, meaning wanting to die that is not true. Or at least not entirely true. (Half truths Lucifer 1x04 - I don’t lie but I don’t say the whole truth either.)

Marcus knows that Lucifer bled early on as that was the scene the production went within the flashbacks shown in 3x12. Not 1x13, not 2x13 but 1x04! Meaning that he could have been in Los Angeles immediately when that happened but he didn’t. 

So we get to S2 where Azrael’s blade comes to L.A. and even if Marcus never found out about Uriel (doubtful) he knew about the blade by the episode 2x08 - Trip To Stubby Town. If he wrote the book or was around for millennia he knows that the blade can not only kill him but also vanish his soul once and for all. 

Marcus claimed he experienced no guilt for what he had done so he wouldn’t go to Hell but that would leave only Heaven as an option. Thinking about it, an internal life in Heaven is it really a good thing for him after so many millennia? Wouldn’t be wise to just kill yourself with the blade and be over with it? 

Let’s not forget that Dad probably has a saying even in the afterlife so why would Cain ever subject himself to go to the same place where his torturer is? It doesn’t make any sense… But how about taking revenge on the favourite son of Dad? That is a high possibility but why now? Because Lucifer has something to lose and can suffer. Additionally, his light-bringing powers might be something that can be used against God? Who knows…Okay, so around 2x13 if Marcus knows about it, the Devil dies for a human… Did the hospital had any footage? No idea some do but they require a special order to be turned on. 

Now see this… in a very weird way, Earl Johnson in 2x16 was committed for giving away all his money and because he had been delusional a few months ago (02/03/2017) by his wife…

If you go back a few episodes you will realise that this happened around the time Azrael’s blade was on the move (2x06-2x08) or when Chloe was poisoned (2x11-2x13). So was Earl Johnson planted somehow? I mean why would a guy from Odessa, Texas end up being committed at a ward in California? I may be going a bit too far but what if Marcus was manipulating things since S2 and wanted Lucifer to start a new war against his Dad along with Mum?

Now in 2x18 Mum is gone, the blade is gone but in less than 2-3 hours later Marcus has someone Devilnap Lucifer. Miraculously Lucifer ends up with wings so that makes me wonder if the light-bringing power can be harvested somehow and reused… 

Too far? Okay, think of this. Marcus had 2 seasons to act and he does it when A) Mum is gone, B) the blade is gone, C) Amenadiel’s powers may be returning but not really, D) Maze is out of Lucifer’s house and E) Marcus has proof that Lucifer can summon the light-bringing power. 

All the above get us to S3. 

How did Marcus or the Sinnerman brainwash that guy in 3x02 into thinking he had killed Lucifer’s kidnapper because of his girlfriend? Why do we always forget that? Sometimes I wonder if the original Heart Break Killer was manipulated by the 1950s Marcus… 

Moving forward we get to 3x04  - What Would Lucifer Do?, where Marcus is shot but was he really trying to test his mortality around Chloe? That was a bit too rushed and it doesn’t make much sense… It seems almost as if Marcus wanted some time off to set up a new game… 

3x05 - Charlotte comes back and perhaps Marcus steps away as he wants to see the lasting effects of Mum and how a Hell damned soul is reacting back to her earth body… I do wonder if Charlotte acted as a live experiment for him in a way. 

3x06 and 3x07 are the standalones but Lucifer and Chloe are coming closer something that perhaps does not fit Marcus plan whatever that is. He needs Lucifer in pain. Like Linda said in S2, Lucifer had to feel his pain and indeed in that way, he ignited the blade so… - I believe this has been mentioned before at least once on a basic level? - 

3x08 - Marcus returns and all of sudden in 3x09 The Sinnerman starts to slaughter Lucifer’s old favour recipients. The mafia boy was a recent deal but the woman with the hair products was a few years old deal/favour. I remind you that only Marcus has the archived files on the celestials. 

In 3x10 we get several enigmatic clues and the first arc finishes with Marcus shooting Sinnerman. Now the weirdest part for me was that Sinnerman had kept their photo together photo in a pristine condition with him… Why? It will be answered for sure but… Sometimes I wondered if Marcus could have children for some purpose or if there is something more in there…

The next episodes 3x11 aside, seem like a big joke something like getting the Devil a colour book and let him have some fun. They do hold a deeper meaning but what interests me more is 3x16 for one more reason. Marcus knows that his brother by returning to Hell will fall again into the punishment loop. 

What had me thinking was why didn’t Marcus ask from Lucifer to bring back his brother after Abel was run over? How cruel can you be to let your brother, who you claim to care about at the end of the episode, return to Hell? If that’s not sadistic I don’t know what is. 

Everything I have written so far, of course, do not answer your question if we do not take them as one unit with unseen yet existing connections. 

Marcus is using Lucifer. Chloe has a gift there is no question about it but as Sinnerman said, it has to be you aka Lucifer. We might not know the motivation and the real reason behind Marcus’ actions so far and we might find it out only when the scene is aired but what we should remember is that no matter how precious is Chloe, Lucifer is the object of interest here… 

Which makes me think this. Lucifer is supposed to punish the guilty so was Cain’s mark under Lucifer’s influence? Just a random idea here though…

So your husband is partly right in my opinion. Marcus is forcing people to spin around themselves and do things they would never do… Killing a human as you remember is an Angel 101, no-no. Also, do remember Gaudium… taking a pleasure out of the idea of the committed sin and by reliving that sin and not the sin itself…

I know that this post has been a bit all over the place and I apologise for that. It’s just you gave me an opportunity to go back to S1 and rethink certain coincidences or what we assumed they were at the time. Thank you both! 

[comicteaparty]

April 4th, 2019 CTP Archive

The archive for the Comic Tea Party chat that occurred on April 4th, 2019, from 5PM - 7PM PDT.  The chat focused on Kamikaze by Alan Tupper, Havana Nguyen, and Carrie Tupper; Edited by Rachelle Udell and D'Andrea Seabrook.

Featured Comment:

Chat:

RebelVampire

COMIC TEA PARTY- THURSDAY BOOK CLUB START!

Good evening, everyone~! This week’s Thursday Book Club is officially beginning! Today we are discussing Kamikaze by lan Tupper, Havana Nguyen, and Carrie Tupper; Edited by Rachelle Udell and D'Andrea Seabrook~! (https://kamikazeanimated.com/comic/)

Remember that Thursday discussions are completely freeform! However, every 30 minutes I will drop in OPTIONAL discussion questions in case you’d like a bit of a prompt. If you miss out on one of these prompts, you can find them pinned for the chat’s duration. Additionally, remember that while constructive criticism is allowed, our focus is fun and respectfully appreciating the comic. All that said, let’s begin!

QUESTION 1. What is your favorite scene in the comic so far and why?

my favorite scene so far is probably the huge long sequence that follows the bomb explosion and markesha is running away. i love just how real and down to earth that scene is. like markesha doesnt magically come to her destiny or just treat what happened is nbd after suddenly becoming a ninja. nope, shes runs, like a normal person would do regardless if they were a runner or not, and is pursued. everthing about this sequence really carried this tension. cause in this moment she was not some future superheroine. she was a young woman terrified for her life. and it just felt so relateable.

keii4ii

I have several favorite scenes. One of them is Markesha's confrontation with Franco. The intro to that scene is thick with tension; I love the juxtaposition with the radio/music and could see it play like a movie in my head! http://kamikazeanimated.com/comic/kamikaze/pg-2-gatekeeper/ Not to mention how it ends. It's the first time something works out right(ish) between Markesha and Orson. Due to the circumstances, the scene leaves a lot of distrust to be resolved, but it was nice to see that first step of working together. It struck a good balance of tension and a truce.

RebelVampire

another scene im particular to is that scene where markesha is standing on the rooftops debating whether she should work with orson or not. not only is it beautifully illustrated, but i really like the juxtaposition in the story. like showing her other opportunity leaving the city without her. cause once that caravan leaves, its really a no way out declaration. markesha is trapped whether she wants to or not.

i do love the franco scene for how it painted the world. cause in the opening sequence i was like, "come on this is the post apocalypse he seems the type to be packing a gun." and then boop, he pulled out a gun and i felt vindicated XD

but i just really appreciated how the character really acted in the worst way possible per expectation of the world

Carrie Tupper

I think this is the first time I've EVER heard any compliments toward Franco, period. xD

RebelVampire

i mean the dudes dead. so umm, no sense on spitting on his grave

Carrie Tupper

Fair enough, but I'm sure Markesha wouldn't mind.

RebelVampire

nobody should mind hes dead. especially the runner who originally was supposed to take the package. now theres a person who lucked the heck out.

Carrie Tupper

Ha, as Orson would say: "Indeed."

keii4ii

Also not exactly a scene, but one detail I really liked was the "fresh wild meat" store with the live rabbits. It's a nice nod to the rabbit... metaphor...? thingie, but I loved it for the little mundane worldbuilding bit it was.

Carrie Tupper

OMG YAY

I'm so glad you notices that Keii4ii!

noticed*

keii4ii

It helped that I saw such stores near me when I was growing up

Fried chicken places with live chickens in cages

Carrie Tupper

That whole bit was thrown is as a bit of a metaphoric way of saying, "Markesha's releasing the story into the world herself whether she realizes it or not."

RebelVampire

i appreciated too the subtle world building it did too. cause it both demonstrates in a small way how desperate everyone is for food while at the same time showing how theyve made everything work and are still able to operate somewhat the same as before

Carrie Tupper

I think it's interesting that y'all zeroed in on the tension/action bits. Most people tell me the parts they remember the most are those between Markesha and Toshi.

RebelVampire

i like seeing markesha and toshi interact, but at the same time theyre father and daughter. so at the end of the day theres probably gonna be love and hugs and theres kind of a safety net there where their relationship is concerned.

meanwhile everyone else is ready to put a bullet in markesha's head

minus like 3 people

keii4ii

I'm partial to child-parent conflicts so I've been more interested in Markesha's situation with her missing mom than with her dad.

RebelVampire

and one of those whose name is orson i dont trust

yeah i do like the tension between them regarding the mom. that definitely is a highlight since theyre both handled it so differently

keii4ii

Speaking of her mom.... that little problem they ran into with her DNA clearance thing (forgot what it's called/ what page it was on) is totally not suspicious at all, no sir.

RebelVampire

ill be more keen on their interactions later cause toshi was the one who really wanted markesha to take orson's job. but he also seems the most likely to go "wait shes doing what i didnt approve of that"

Carrie Tupper

Hahah "blacklisted bloodline"

RebelVampire

so that seems like a potential argument later

nah nobody did nothing at all

just a typo

never heard of the nin family

QUESTION 2. After avoiding it for a while, Markesha does agree to help Orson’s group. Do you think Markesha is finally settled on helping the group, or will she continue to panic and try to run for it? How do you think her first mission will go? Do you believe the first mission will help cement her motivations for helping Orson, or will it scare her away again? What do you think will happen when Markesha’s father finds out exactly what she’s doing for Orson? Further, do you think the Razors will figure out Orson covered for Markesha and was actually the one to deliver the bomb? If they do, what will they do to both Orson and Markesha? Finally, how do you think Markesha will mature and grow over the course of the story?

mathtans

I'll be here to comment shortly...

RebelVampire

hi math! take your time~!

Carrie Tupper

I think my personal fave scene is the one where Audrey and Orson butt heads in the 2nd episode. She's totally not down for this, thinks it's a bad idea, and I think it says a lot about Orson that he'll take that kind of talk around him. Like...he's not so iron fisted he won't hear someone drag his ideas for the desperate moves they are.

Hi, hi, Math!

keii4ii

Yeah, Orson never struck me as controlling, just really adamant

RebelVampire

orson is one of those characters where i dont know if i should love them or hate them. but like in the good tense way that keeps me on edge. hes this perfect blend of being a cool dude while at the same time kind of being a jerk.

mathtans

Only made it through the first two episodes, but of those, I think my fave scene is actually when Markesha rubs the rabbit talisman and leaves, and beat panel, and then Toshi does after she's gone. The sort of thing that you could have totally skipped over, but gave much more weight to his character early on, in my mind.(edited)

RebelVampire

yeah that was a beautiful pause

cause it really said so much about toshi in that moment

and just non verbally explained why he was so insistent she rub it

cause its more a thing for him and his heart

than it is for her

i want to believe that markesha's panicking is kind of done in the sense shes just gonna run forever. i think though in that first mission she's going to be moving forward on adrenaline and saying shit a lot to get through it. however, i think once orson is back he can explain things better, and that will cement in her desires more. that and i think shell see the opportunity as a way to improve toshi's life at the end and stick with it for that reason.

i 100% think when toshi finds out he wont be happy tho

and then theyll have that argument

where toshi is like how could you

and markesha is like "hey you pushed me into accepting his deal"

mathtans

Okay, more or less here, catching up on the start. I guess I went for the more traditional. Though the bit with the mother is kind of heartbreaking. Though at the same time inspirational what with how close Markesha's become with her dad. And I totally missed the metaphor of releasing the rabbits.

A couple runner-up scenes... right at the beginning, where the elevator opens and it's full of security guys by accident. I thought that was funny. Also, well played, setting up this guy as the main character and it's actually his team that are the key ones moving on.

Second runner up scene... welp, if you know me, you KNOW I'm shipping Kamikaze and Flare, so yeah.

Carrie Tupper

Yeah... I may or may not get a lot of people mad at me about Jackal...

Shipping already? Wow xD

mathtans

Mad at you? I thought it was clever. A way of showing no one's safe, in a way.

I go for all the yuri ships, hinted or not.

RebelVampire

i do miss jackal. the character well never really get to know. but nah, not mad. i mean this is the post apocalypse and you cant have post apocalypse without showing the world can be...unforgiving

plus it raises the stakes for orson

cause now everything is riding on markesha

but like

no pressure or anything there markesha

mathtans

As to Orson, here's a crazy theory. His "trial run" was actually to see if a bomb could be delivered fast enough to not explode in transit. He's in league with the bomber, presumably indirectly.

(Did we ever find out what that trial was about?)

Carrie Tupper

Hmmm, there's a flavor of that theory I haven't seen.

The trial run in the beginning?

mathtans

I prefer chocolate over vanilla. Right, that one, the one Markesha was 27 seconds late for.

Carrie Tupper

Yeah, there's a page where Link asks Orson how the "courier angle" went

RebelVampire

see, the way i feel about orson, i cant say no to that theory. orson is a shady dude even when im cheering for him.

Carrie Tupper

The idea there was that Orson was throwing a hail mary that a courier could be hired to do the job, but her parameters were a little high for untrained runners.

mathtans

But what was he couriering, eh? Secret bombs, maybe?

Rebel: It's true. The guy removed the evidence of his gun and everything.

Carrie Tupper

Orson's a professional, he's not perfect, but he's defintely been in the game for a loooong time.

mathtans

As to Rebel's questions, I think Markesha's instinct is to run. I was honestly inclined to smack her upside the head for disobeying her father the way she did, when he was making sense. Can kinda see her point of view, mind.

keii4ii

He knows his priorities. Gotta respect that even if I may not agree with him sometimes

Carrie Tupper

One of the hard realities Orson has to constantly deal with is the fact that he can't control everything in the outer city. Doing his jobs a lot easier when you can leverage everyone, but the chaos of Outer Trinity is almost a force of nature that he's just kinda...gotta make the best of.

mathtans

I think she's destined to grow though, from what we've seen in the special later storyline bits. (cough Shipping cough )

RebelVampire

i like that mix where orson cnt control everything yet gives off this attitude that sure he can, hes orson. gotta admire that confidence.

mathtans

Incidentally, real interesting format, what with giving some tidbits about the city or characters underneath the page. I didn't get a chance to read them all.

Carrie Tupper

Charisma seen from outer space

mathtans

Orson seems very sure of himself - and his coworkers. Probably why, as Carrie said, he can tolerate things like Audrey's challenges.

Handy trait given the position he's in.

RebelVampire

tbf its not like audrey's points are invalid anyway. shes making good points even if she chooses to express them very aggressively.

though between the three i like link the best cause hes a breathe of fresh air who brings sunshine and comedy to the bleak and serious world.

mathtans

She is. Though given she seems to be the one who needs to activate the kill switch, she's got a more personal stake.

Link spies on young girls though.

Carrie Tupper

That's a unique viewpoint, Rebel! We don't have many Link fans.

Are there any moments in particular you like with Link?

mathtans

If I had to pick a favourite character, it might be Toshi. Not just because he's a writer, but because he's doing his best under crazy circumstances. And doesn't let his blindness stop him. (Also, my God, all the pathos for the issue with his wife.)

biab, little one's fussing.

RebelVampire

i dont know whether to applaud toshi's dedication to his wife or not. cause i mean loyalty is an admirable quality, but theres also a point i agree with markesha and its time to smack him into realizing she probably isnt coming back.

as for favorite link moments, probably the scenes at markesha's house. especially where he critiques audrey for how strong shes coming on...and then proceeds to come on very strong. besides being funny, i think its a good moment that shows he does basically just kind of his own moral compass for better or for worse.

but i also really liked the dialogue sequence between him and audrey that markesha could here

cause it really showed the vulnerability everyone is in atm

QUESTION 3. Despite having to work for Orson, there are many questions surrounding Orson’s work. Who exactly are Audrey and Link, and how do you think they wound up working with Orson? Who exactly is Orson? What are Orson’s personal motivations for participating in the project? For that matter, why is Orson so hated and blamed for what happened to the Cornerstone family? What do you think happened to the Cornerstone family exactly, and how might it tie in to the story? Also, who is Orson’s boss? What are they trying to accomplish as far as changing the balance of power goes? How are they trying to accomplish it? Lastly, what do you think was in the canister seen at the beginning of the comic?

ShaRose49

Idk what to think about Orson, I can’t tell if he’s good or bad. Leaning more towards good though. My fav thing about this is that it looks like an animated series and the father-daughter relationship is a pretty good one and I feel like I don’t see that very often so kudos to you guys for that

Carrie Tupper

Thanks @ShaRose49

ShaRose49

No prob!

mathtans

Back briefly. I feel like Toshi not wanting to leave isn't simply due to his wife though. When you're blind, and living in a place, you kinda know where everything is. Having to leave would suuuck.

ShaRose49

It’s inspiring to me cause I’d like to be involved in animation as well someday

@mathtans I agree

RebelVampire

but not wanting to leave when your daughter is being hunted by the local gang is borderline insanity XD

ShaRose49

Oh yeah

mathtans

(I'm not at the bit where Link/Audrey go to Markesha yet, so no comment on that.)

Except dude was providing an alternative to that. Just saying.

Carrie Tupper

@mathtans You're quite right. It's complicated for Toshi. There's most DEFINITELY an edge of "I won't leave her," but there's also the complications of leaving in both a mental and physical way. He's lived there forever, had memories built with his family, and leaving means he'd have to re-learn layouts all over again. That can be stressful and painful for someone who can't see.

mathtans

As to the latest question, maybe Orson's boss is one of those people vying to fill the vacant seat at the council chambers.

RebelVampire

but toshi wouldnt even consider leaving till markesha super forced his hand. and to me thats the point where it reaches obsession cause hes willing to trust is some rando stranger and risk his daughters safety just on the .000001% chance his wife is coming back and because eww change. and while i empathize with toshi, that is a moment where i felt hes just being a bad dad. cause his own pain is more important than the life of his daughter

mathtans

And as to the canister, I'd say it had seeds or something, but it was apparently super heavy without the suit, so that doesn't jibe.

Rebel: Fair point about the stranger trust thing. But there were some logical arguments in there too. I guess there's layers of opinion.

biab again

keii4ii

I like Orson. He seems like he genuinely believes what he's doing is the best option for many in a crappy world, and accepts the shady aspects of it as a necessary price. There's a lot about him that's yet to be revealed, so maybe I won't agree with his endgame, but I still see an inherent value in that... belief in a non-self-centered goal.

ShaRose49

@Respheal yeah he’s definitely not perfect

Got some issues

RebelVampire

i definitely think hes a good guy and has a non-self centered goal. that being said, bending the rules can...corrupt your moral compass. so if at the end hes an antagonist, i would not be surprised

also wrong tag there @ShaRose49

XD

ShaRose49

Whoops!!

I musta slipped

My bad

Respheal

o_o

lol, s'ok

ShaRose49

Oh heeey, we were just talking about you!

Carrie Tupper

xD

ShaRose49

Accidentally!!

RebelVampire

seeds would make the most sense there where the cannister is concerned. as for the heaviness, well that couldve been more from the cannister itself than whats in the cannister.

keii4ii

I am very sorry because this is a terrible, terrible idea, but "if at the end he's an antagonist" just made me imagine him becoming a Final Boss a la that nanomachine boss from the Metal Gear Solid series.

Carrie Tupper

Oof. I gotta keep my mouth shut here, but y'all got some interesting ideas about Orson. xD

RebelVampire

maybe whats in the cannister are the secrets to weather control cause you never have to worry about the crops again if you can control the weather

mathtans

Back, mostly. That's a good take on Orson, keii4ii.

Incidentally, I notice we're only, like, 15 years from the "end of the world" as far as the story chronology seems to go. Yikes?

Carrie Tupper

15?

RebelVampire

its okay keii i pictured him in about 20 different video game boss forms when i said that XD

keii4ii

omg

Carrie Tupper

Just put glasses and a half vest on EVERY boss xD

mathtans

The tag line says "what happens when the world's first superheroine shows up two hundred years after the end of the world"... and I thought I saw a date marker of, like, 2227 somewhere.

(Someone's birth year? Mirage? I dunno.)

Carrie Tupper

Year is 2235

2235 - 200 years is 2035

mathtans

Okay, so wasn't totally imagining it. That means 200 years ago was, like, shortly in our future.

Carrie Tupper

Da

mathtans

We're in trouble.

Carrie Tupper

....Da

mathtans

Da da da daaaaa.

RebelVampire

tbf this is not the worst of post apocalypses

i mean there is some semblance of order

and cities

mathtans

There's still bureauocratic jerks too. That whole "you're blacklisted but hey, keep applying and giving us money" shakedown annoyed me. In the good way of clever writing because I can see it happening and they're jerks.

RebelVampire

yeah i really like in general political bs hasnt gone away. cause thats very true to life.

mathtans

Related, kudos on establishing that Logan guy in the council as a total waste of oxygen within, like, two panels (as he went off about girls asking for it). Get bent.

Carrie Tupper

Logan is basically every jerk I've ever known brought to life.

It's cathartic in a way.

RebelVampire

im gonna take a stab in the dark at orson's motivations. i think the cornerstones essentially got murdered in a mysterious raid that im sure no other high ranking family had anything to do with. and that for better or for worse, orson got blamed because someone always needs to be blamed. and orson blames himself but he also recognizes how the system is flawed. so he wants to change the power dynamics by changing hte food system or something. cause food does seem to be the controlling factor here.

mathtans

It's nice to have a clear villain character somewhere. The kind that's too moronic to actually take over the world though.

RebelVampire

maybe thats what logan wants you to think. that hes too dumb to do anything. when really he is the shadow puppet master

Carrie Tupper

Hmmm! All interesting ideas

mathtans

Rebel: That's a good theory. Maybe being the scapegoat also twisted his morals a bit, he figured I might as well do some of the shadier things like killing people.

Rebel: Logan could be a puppet, that's for sure. But not a master, unless the real master wants him to think so.

RebelVampire

you know who i dont trust? lionness heritage. if i had to pick anybody who ruined the cornerstones, itd be her.

Carrie Tupper

Oh? How come?

mathtans

Rebel: The fact that the world ended with "the Withering" implies to me that food is definitely a key element.

Carrie Tupper

Quite right, @mathtans

mathtans

Hm, don't think I've got to the lionness yet.

Carrie Tupper

She's a trip.

RebelVampire

because she seems smart enough to know how to politics and is so far the one most interested in changing the power structure. and just the way she offered the crop things in a backhanded blackmail way makes her rub me in all the wrong ways. like, she kind of gives me the same impression orson does. where shes doing good while also being shady af. but in her case her motives are way more self-interested, so the self-interested plus the shady are a dangerous combonation(edited)

Carrie Tupper

Makes sense.

RebelVampire

tbh i would not be surprised if she was orson's boss, but actually fooled orson into thinking she wanted to do good things for everyone.

mathtans

Oooh, interesting theory.

Carrie Tupper

She's not a person to trifle with

Constance will have to be careful.

RebelVampire

but i do like constance. i hope she and markesha meet and become the ultimate duo. the one who politics and the one who works in the shadows.

QUESTION 4. Besides the major plot points, there are quite a number of politics and world issues about. Who are the Outlanders, and why are they disliked? Assuming Markesha’s mother was an Outlander, how did she wind up with Markesha’s father? What do you think ultimately happened to Markesha’s mother? Do you think Markesha and her father will find out during the story? How might it affect them? Less personally tied to Markesha is what’s going on in Halo. Do you think Orson will get out of his captivity? If so, how will it come about? Will Lionness Wright take Cornerstone’s seat High House seat? What is Lionness’ Heritage interest in Lionness Wright taking it? At last, do you think there is a chance one of the Cornerstone’s lived?

Carrie Tupper

@mathtans I have to admit I hope you'll comment through the next bit of story. The team and I would very much enjoy seeing yours or anyone else's reactions in realtime

mathtans

(Is there more Kamikaze and Flare? )

Carrie Tupper

(It's coming I promise, but it'll be a bit!)

All very good questions you've posed @RebelVampire

RebelVampire

im hoping we get to learn more about the outlanders. cause i mean namewise, obviously they are ppl who live outside the city. but at the same time, they mention that yellow eyes are a trait. and you dont have a shared trait if youre just ppl outside the walls.

mathtans

I admit, I'm real bad with geography in real life. It's worse in fantasy novels and comics for me. I remember there were three gates. That's... kind of all I got.

Oh yeah, the eyes. Though not all Outlanders.

RebelVampire

i didnt study the geography that hard this time, admittedly.

maybe toshi met his wife via some writing work? like doing some journalistic investigation on the lives of outlanders

mathtans

Started looking at Episode 3. Clever way of having the storm info playing in the background. Reminds me of how Toshi was looking at the news to give us backstory in an earlier bit.

Carrie Tupper

The geography of the city is pretty basic, but for reference...

RebelVampire

oh thats nice they have a river

very smart

Carrie Tupper

For reference Markesha's mom = Cassie

mathtans

Markesha really likes jumping to conclusions, doesn't she. Also, selective memory.

RebelVampire

ok cassie. i knew shed been named but i couldnt remember it

Carrie Tupper

Hey many she just got kinda blown up give her a break xD

RebelVampire

to be fair markesha is i think 19? thats basically still a kid and that is kid-like behavior

Carrie Tupper

Yep, in the scene with Rio she said she turned 20 in a week.

Happy birthday~ Markesha

mathtans

Oh, I'm not faulting it. Just, perhaps especially as a teacher, I roll my eyes.

Carrie Tupper

One of the things I have to catch myself in a lot when reading anything is the memory of the character doesn't always match our own, especially if said character wasn't present at or had certain information communicated to them

mathtans

Also kind of impressive how every page has it's own title. That's attention to detail. (I do it, but that's only because they're all 4-panels.)

Carrie: Truth.

RebelVampire

maybe cassie was involved in some espionage. like maybe she married toshi just to have a cover so she could spy for outlanders. and then when her mission was done she left. or ya know, was viciously murdered. which i would be amazingly surprised if she was alive. i dont buy into the characters' hopes. i feel shes just been gone too long for it to have been anything else.

Carrie Tupper

lol, Alan and I beat our heads against the wall EVERY WEEK to make sure we haven't reused those titles. xD

mathtans

biab, little one fussing.

Carrie Tupper

Cassie's fate is at this point unknown to everyone, but I definitely know her fate and do my best to sprinkle it in

In fact there's a lot of things I sprinkle in through the series. Like the fact Julain shows up WAAAAAY before book 3.

RebelVampire

interesting

Carrie Tupper

https://i0.wp.com/kamikazeanimated.com/comic/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/pg_05.jpg?w=900

mathtans

Back. Yeah, I have a text file of titles. If I think of one I'm not sure of, I simply do a search.

RebelVampire

omg thats such a sneaky appearance too

mathtans

Cassie was actually a time traveller!

Carrie Tupper

hahaha xD

RebelVampire

but also makes me picture on one page somewhere theres a hidden newspaper article that readers "many year long cold case of murdered woman in alley still not solved! read the story on page 4!"

mathtans

Damn. Nice foreshadow.

Carrie Tupper

Mmmmmaaaybe

One of my goals when writing this is to leave little things for return readers to find and enjoy

that way when they re-read they notice new things, and the experience is fresh in a different way

RebelVampire

thats always a good thing to have. especially when it things like that where you smack yourself in the forehead cause you didnt realize a character had already appeared before

mathtans

Yeah, that's awesome.

RebelVampire

off topic to that but like http://kamikazeanimated.com/comic/kamikaze/pg-1-moving-day/ how can anybody not like link after looking at this page? look at those beautiful and jovial expressions minus the adorable pout

Carrie Tupper

Orson's little sneer at the tablet being waved in his face always makes me smile

mathtans

Interesting about a panic switch, didn't expect that arrest. They didn't even read his rights.

Carrie Tupper

...y'all have a really positive view of the Trinity justice system

mathtans

I live in hope. The romantic in me.

RebelVampire

yeah i think thats math there. im even surprised they didnt just gun them down and go "whoops they slipped into my bullets"

mika

oh we're talking about something that i do not know

mathtans

Markesha staying in one place for calibration? Yeah, good luck with that.

Rebel: Point.

Carrie Tupper

Hiya mika!

RebelVampire

this is the channel for our thursday book club chat. were talking about kamikaze http://kamikazeanimated.com/comic/ @mika

especially orson. i for sure orson would get shot cause man is there a lot of hate for orson.

so really insofar

their treatment has been better than i expected

Carrie Tupper

That's fair

mika

oooo

mathtans

Orson looks really different without his glasses.

Carrie Tupper

I guess ultimately the HSF knows if they do anything to hurt Orson they'llhave to answer to the High House LEOs and...well

mathtans

He's got some pull still.

Carrie Tupper

I'm not sure who I'd want to answer to less in that situation

Fun note: The shot where we see the other inmates via Orson's view is directly related to how blurry people look w/o my glasses on.

mathtans

Okay, one last theory... the canister at the start held some of the "Withering" disease in storage, that people were studying. They want it in order to create a vaccine/cure, but others are fine with the world the way it is.

I am very with you on that. My prescription is high.

mika

im going to try reading it! im always looking for more webcomics to snatch

Carrie Tupper

I hope you'll enjoy it @mika and feel free to comment on the pages! The team loves chatting with our readers

mathtans

(Made it to the end of Act 1 atleast.)

Carrie Tupper

haha xD

mika

oof im guilty of not commenting enough

Carrie Tupper

Act 2 is insanely long, so I'm sure it won't take any time for you

RebelVampire

i really loved that blurry shot. as a glasses wearer, that is a detail so many comics do not capture. that yeah, without glasses, ppl cant bloody see that well.

Carrie Tupper

Yep. I also needed to establish that for later shenanigans

mathtans

(I'm actually a pretty slow reader. I'm also bad at keeping up with things. Even my own websites.)

RebelVampire

and the cannister containing a copy of the disease is interesting, math. although sounds extremely dangerous. like...jackal did not treat that cannister with enough care if thats whats in it XD

mathtans

I wonder if we'll get much from Toshi's point of view then. Could save the artist some time.

Carrie Tupper

omg right?

I have thought about having a dream sequence for Toshi

where all wee see are the 'sounds' he hears

mathtans

Jackal seemed pretty sure of himself and not inclined to listen to advice though.

(I wonder if that was a code name, like "Rabbit"?)

Carrie Tupper

It was.

mathtans

Well played.

Carrie Tupper

If you look at the "list of affiliations" on Orson's file that we did, you may find him hidden in the list

mathtans

Good job all around, as far as final words go. The amount of worldbuilding behind the scenes is damn impressive, you get the impression that it's only the tip of the iceberg being shown.

RebelVampire

that would definitely be an interesting experience. to see the world as toshi sees it, metaphorically speaking.

mathtans

(I'm baffled about how it could have been goofy in the conception, it's pretty serious now, I think.)

RebelVampire

COMIC TEA PARTY- THURSDAY BOOK CLUB END!

Sadly, this wraps up this week’s Thursday Book Club chat for now. Thank you so much to everyone for reading and joining us! We want to give a special thank you to lan Tupper, Havana Nguyen, and Carrie Tupper; Edited by Rachelle Udell and D'Andrea Seabrook, as well, for making Kamikaze. If you liked the comic, make sure to support everyone’s efforts however you’re able to~!

Read and Comment: https://kamikazeanimated.com/comic/

Kamikaze’s Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/teamkamikaze%3E

Kamikaze’s Twitter: https://twitter.com/KamikazeComic/

Carrie's Twitter: https://twitter.com/mermaidshells