#also bi women were pushed into lesbian spaces bc they were considered lesbians if they were with women and straight if they were with men

[fussypaws]

idk what the deal is with people suddenly wanting to include men in lesbianism but dni if you are or support mspec/bi/pan lesbians

[lgbstims]

oh....... i suggested damme and tomme bc i didn't think you would be approving of bisexuals who use femme and butch since we often get called lesbophobic by radfems/gencrits for claiming terms that have always belonged to us. i consider tomme an alternate identity in online spaces because i also want to avoid harassment, but if i can feel safe being butch then i would much prefer that!

i also apologize for my mis-wording, i didn't mean to say that you "push" doe/stag on bisexuals. i think that since i saw all your related content on this blog and assumed they were the only bi terms you worked with, since there aren't many to choose from.

i still believe bi woc who want terms but are uncomfortable with the antiblackness of d/s and the lesbian association (meaning their sexuality will likely be erased) with f/b deserve something. i thought d/t would do that perfectly but not if they could get in trouble for being terfs or whatever. :/

It's ok! I apologize too I was a little more offended at your wording than I should've been.

I have not heard a good argument against bi women using butch/femme. Historically (and tbh this is still the attitude of many older women) "lesbian" was used to describe behavior I.e. a woman seeking a relationship with a woman, rather than an orientation. It's likely that some butch "lesbians" were in fact febfems. So I think it's ok to use butch as long as you're not het partnered.

That said agree that bisexual women deserve terms of our own (and if damme/tomme works for you, go for it)!

[phoenixfire-thewizardgoddess]

What is your opinion on straight passing privilege? I (bi) don’t think it exists, but a close (lesbian) friend of mine insists that it does bc “You can hold hands with your SO (nb cis passing man) in public without risking being the victim of a hate crime.” I have been researching but keep seeing this same argument coming up, and I’m unsure and don’t want to be making anyone upset if I’m being ignorant here.

I think that there's a lot of fucked up internet politics around who is and isn't allowed in the community. Which is ridiculous.

Gay, Lesbian, Bi, Pan, Poly, Ace, Aro, Trans, Intersex, etc.

The only people who shouldn't be in the community are cishets, and pedos, none of that 'it's a sexuality' nonsense, it's predation.

The concept of straight-passing is ridiculous, primarily because it's all based on assumptions. If you're in an m/f relationship, and you are both cis and heterosexual, it's straight.

But here's the catch, if you identify as any LGBPT+ then it's not straight.

Two trans people in an m/f relationship is not straight passing.

Two bi people in an m/f is not straight passing, it's queer babes, it's in the name. If you're bi and your partner is like, straight, it's still queer from your side of the fence.

It's the 'pick a side' argument from another direction, this straight passing nonsense. Where you are villified by the straights if you have a same-sex relationship (or fetishised, let's be real, every part of the acronymn has it's own p*rn category aimed at straight people with a kink), and if you have a relationship with the opposite gendered person, the queer community gets cranky.

Two things:

1) Is this friend between 13 and 25? Bc they could still be working this out or being mentored by t*rfs, or had some bad info. IT could be jealousy or fear of being open where you live. Perhaps you could question what makes her say that; has she had a bad experience, or did someone say this to her. where are you Are you in america? are there snake wielding jesus warriors near you? Blink SOS if you need an escape route, child

2) Who wins when everyone in the queer community is divided and policing one another? Telling everyone off for dating this person or that person or not at all

I didn't get an invite to the big queer conference to make these decisions, so like, they're not valid. It's some pocket of internet active idiots who think they can speak for everyone.

What we need to do is stop pulling this bullshit on one another and get back to asking just why the fuck it's not okay for people who are perceived as not-straight or cis etc to hold hands in public.

There's a problem for every facet of the acronym, babes and dudes and theys. Lesbians are heavily sexualised by straight cis dudes. Gays are heavly fetisihed by straight cis women. to the point where even saying 'I'm gay' is considered to be an obscene, sexual act that you should not let children be exposed to.

And there's always someone from the opposite gender who thinks they 'are confused' or 'haven't met the right (gender) person yet', or 'they could fix them with their magic genitals' or mumbled religious nonsense. There's such intense stereotypes that people can't stand women who look butch, but also you can't 'really' be a lesbian unless you are' or gay men can't just be, like, a normal dude, instead of some flamboyant in-your-face charicature.

Of course people who match the stereotype exist, too. And they get no respect for fitting into the stereptypes either, it's just another reason for disrespect. There's no winning.

Bi's can't talk to anyone without hearing a question of a threesome come up or being attacked from either side for coice of partner.

Pans, same, but also kitchenware jokes. Both Bi and Pan are considered sluts and whores and can't decide or are going to cheat, etc. Or the 'you're being special snowflakes', 'choose a side', 'you're secretly gay and won't admit / you're secretly straight and want attention' etc.

Ace/Aro - everyone under this banner gets the whole 'you just haen't found the right person' or 'when you're older/you're a late bloomer' or 'how do you know?' or 'maybe you're straight/gay and haven't worked it out yet?' invalidating them completely and trying to push sex onto them. The queer community has always let Ace and Aro in under the Bi banner, and they are welcome. But the internet community, usually young people, are tearing each other to shreds over it lmao.

Chill.

Non-binary, trans, intersex. They have been here for ages, but people from one community try to destroy their credibility, despite them existing since humanity has. It's big on p*rn and fetish sites too, lot of straight dudes think these things are hot and sexy, but would spit on trans people in the street. Hypocrites (I mean, every second low-brow comedy movie out there makes a thai-l*dyb*y joke, and how it 'doesn't count' like yikes).

Nb has only just been recognised, which is funny bc society literally made up gender and the rules and pretended that was how its encoded in DNA lmao.

Transpeople have it bad though. Between the cis straights, the cis queer community (primarily t*rfs and those who fall for misinformation) and the fetishists, and the medical community who treats them like an illness rather than people. Like, they are afforded respect if they 'pass', but even then it's still an EW factor.

Transwomen are seen as 'men in dresses who want to break into women's spaces' and treated horrifically; assaults are very high. Transmen are seen as butch women, and 'gender tr*itors' by the Crazy Motherfuckers we mentioned before; their assaults are high. They're not considered Real People unless they meet the ridiculously high standards for each gender; unless they perform Right.

I remember, but did not understand at the time bc I recall i was little, that there was a gameshpw bachelorette style and there was a big twist. You know what the twist was? That the bachelorette they'd been dating and trying to win over... was trans. I don't think that she knew it would be the big twist, either; of the two men remaining, bother were angry and one might have been sick. Might be on youtube.

But like, that's funny to the non-queer community. They put a huge fucking target on this woman's back, put her in danger of being hurt, abused, killed, by anyone who watched it. By the men who she had 'lied to' as they chose to frame it, of their weird white american families who could have sought revenge. Like yikes.

And intersex people (called h*rmaphrodites for a long time even by medical personnel) were also a p*rn category and/or medical curiosity for centuries. Not to mention all the cases of parents who just went with 'make them a (specific gender)' if there was mixed presentation, at birth, and got mad at the kids for being like "Hey so, you flipped the coin wrong and I'm ___" even thought the potential for this was always on the cards.

And the parents often make a big messa bout how their baby ___ is dead and gone, even if they DO accept the person/child as who they really are. It's like, I get it they have changed but you didn't mourn their first haircut or lost baby tooth like this and that was change too, chill.

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Straight-passing is a projection and a weapon. Like, is it the people in the relationship's fault that society looks at the pair and decides they are m/f, straight and cis? Nah, it's what people are conditioned assume and that's on them.

We can't bring it into the queer spaces and keep perpetuating that shit, because it's nonsense. Queer people are dying in other countries and your friend wants to being smart-assed about the fact you hold hands with your nb datemate in public?

-

Nonsense. That's right up there with t*rfs and the gold-star bullshit that was going on for a few years there. Probs still is among the younger people lmaoooo.

'Passing priviledge' is a myth, and it is used to hurt people. Vulnerable people and those who need support / guidance and assistance from their queer communities more than ever. So try to talk to your friend or try The Whole Friend disposal services, either way, chill.

The real issue here is that any of us are at risk of a hate crime for daring to even show affection in public. That even in safe spaces, 'allies' and those wise enough not to be openly homo/trans/bi/pan/ace/aro/other phobic are still side-eyeing you and wanting to talk 'for you' without listening to the community itself.

We have bigger issues than this, and your friend (and some others on the internet) need to get a grip and prioritise.

[Insert strained analogy about being pro-child but childfree in a suburb where everyone got married out of high school and anticipates you and your partner will too, no matter how often you remind them No Thanks. But you babysat the other day and people thought you and your partner looked like 'naturals' when you took child to the park and played with them. And you remind them, hey, chill, we like kids too but it's not for us. And they get pissy and pushy.]

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I can only point it out from my perspective, I'm certain there other queer people from the above acronymn community who can present their thoughts on the matter to and what it means to them.

Thanks for the question, good-bi.

[fortunefavorsthebrave-dude]

just. imagine if, the first time you saw a lesbian being transphobic, just like an individual person using the fact that they’re a lesbian to push a transphobic agenda, you and everyone else around you decided to drop the entire community. you start proudly putting “lesbophobic” in your blog titles, you start campaigning to drop them out of gay spaces, you start talking about how they really shouldn’t be involved in any of the rest of the gbt+ community because you saw a group of them being transphobic.

that’s ridiculous, you say. you can’t just push every lesbian out of a space because some of them said or did bad things. you can’t judge the community by the actions of a few people.

and you’re right. but also that’s 100% what every fucking idiot on this site started doing to ace people years ago, only instead of them actually doing things to harm other members of the community (unlike the many, MANY “radical feminists” who exclude trans women from their lesbianism and actively work against them) they were 14 year olds making posts that you decided were “cringey” or people who y’all called homophobic because they said hey, maybe every lgbt+ space shouldn’t be super super sexual because it makes the spaces inaccessible for us (and kids, and assault survivors, and people who just aren’t looking for a sexual experience but who cares about them right). 

even the ones who did express their opinions on sex and sexuality in a not great way (bc some folks did express themselves as though they’re morally superior for not wanting sex, which ain’t what being ace is about and is also like. okay. implying that non-straight sex is immoral or dirty is definitely for sure bad, but everything i can ever remember seeing was about sex in general, which..... isn’t homophobic, just a misguided attempt at pride in the face of folks telling us we shouldn’t have any) weren’t doing anything NEARLY as bad as, again, the massive transphobic lesbian circles that keep cropping up and putting their nasty shit all over everything.

literally any person who thinks that being ace is homophobic is a huge fucking moron with no critical thinking skills. and if your issue is that you think that ace people aren’t like. oppressed enough or w/e to be lgbt+, then you’re also a huge fucking moron. you don’t get to decide who all is considered not straight- the community does, and the community (the whole thing, not this shitty subsection of clowns on tumblr) has already decided that ace folks are fine. 

and if we’re going back to the “you have to have experienced a hate crime to be lgbt+” mindset, which is...... a weird one to have, to say the least, then i guess i’m not bi either, because you can bet your ass that, despite being out and openly attracted to women for like six years now, i’ve never once had any issue come from that. i’ve never been harassed, i’ve never been denied jobs or housing or rights, i’ve never had any issues that stem from the fact that i like women.

the only people who have ever tried to harass me for who i am have done so because i’m ace, and they’ve all been on this stupid shitty website. every lgbt+ space i’ve gone to irl (which is a good number, by the by) hasn’t given a shit that i was ace, they just welcomed me in the same as anyone else.

also “allo-” just means other that’s literally it it’s “people without sexual attraction (a-)” and “people with another type of sexual attraction (allo-)” there’s nothing dirty or bad as a connotation and every time someone says it’s a slur they sound like cishet people who think that cishet is a slur when it just means “not gay or trans”. people like to talk about like “well that groups us with our oppressors” but like. refer to my original point about lesbians who are transphobes. sometimes an oppressor (a cis person) is gonna be in your group (lesbians). that doesn’t mean the grouping is like. bad or w/e it’s just the way it happens. i’m tired and i’m starting to get less coherent but like. 

someone who’s trans and straight may not experience attraction like a cishet person, but they also might not experience it the same as another straight trans person. likewise they won’t experience attraction the same way as someone who’s gay. just bc they’re all grouped under “allosexual” doesn’t mean that we’re saying they all experience sexual attraction the same way, just that they experience it at all. the only bearing it has is to easily distinguish between people who feel sexual attraction and people who don’t. like it’s not that deep