#an orphic recap

[thegrapeandthefig]

Hey, can you go over more about why hellenicgods sucks? I mean I know they’re already racist by saying that pagan is the same as the n word. Like what the fuck. Talk about racist trash lol

Buckle up. 

To make sure no one accuses me making shit up, I will be screenshoting the stuff from the website’s FAQ and commenting it. No I won’t be going through all of it, because there’s a lot that is really just his opinion that he’s trying to pass as fact.

1.

Why only mention the Orphic theogony? The Orphic theogony is in fact, not the *mainstream* one and was NOT the mainstream one in Athens. It would have been more honest and accurate to say there are *many* theogonies and at least include Hesiod’s. 

2

I know you saw it but maybe others haven’t. This is alarming AF. I shouldn’t need to explain why. 

3

The funny thing about this point is that there is another page somewhere in the website that tries to go around this -because obviously he’s stuck with the historical existence of oracles. So he lists them, Delphi, Dodona etc... and somehow manages to come to this conclusion: 

And the reason he comes to this conclusion is by tactfully ignoring all kind of historical and archeaological evidence and focusing on the stories in myth. He uses the Yes but No fallacy where he starts by acknowledging historical evidence but then uses myth to strike them out of the discussion. The wording in this conclusion should also make you react: he is being purposefully alarmist and fearmongering. He also subtly protects himself from all criticism by saying things like “the author of this little essay” and later “In the tradition this author follows”. He’s making it sound like this only is about him, all while subtly implying “you’re wrong, I’m right. Fear for yourself”. 

4 Orphism

It’s not “some scholars”. It’s actually 40 years of peer-reviewed scholarship. NO ONE EVER SAID THAT.  The thing is that, he actively chooses to ignore scholarship and chooses instead to interpret himself the (incomplete) material he has. Which leads us to this: 

To recap: he chooses to ignore the scholarship that regularly brings new elements to the surface by deciding that the gods dictate what we have access to. This is the dumbest take I’ve ever read. If scholars before us had had that logic, no advancement in research would have been made. I’ve written a small post trying to clear some shit up about Orphism because it’s the topic every single wannabe cult leader is trying to use and I’m fucking tired. 

5 Bonus

The fucking 12 days of Dionysus are not historical, like he claims. I’ve debunked that shit last year. 

So yeah, come to your own conclusions but there’s SO MUCH on this website that makes me want to go feral that this post is barely scratching the surface. 

[365days365movies]

March 9, 2021: Orpheus (1950) (Part One)

Greek mythology was my first mythological love.

And yes, that is ironically a very cliché thing to say about Greek mythology, since it’s by FAR the most popular and well-known mythology in the Western world, but...what can I say, I’m a sucker for the classics.

When I was 6, my mom got me a copy of the Odyssey, followed by D’Aulaire’s Book of Greek Myths, and that book was my SHIIIIIIIIIIT. From the Titanomachy to the Trojan War, from Decaulion to Daedalus, from the Lernaean Hydra to Ladon, and from Zeus to Dionysus (my second favorite Olympian), I LOVE Greek mythology.

There have been countless adaptations of these stories over the last century of so, some better and more faithful than others. We got Blood of Zeus (which I...genuinely dislike) on Netflix last year, Lore Olympus is a fantastic webcomic and modernized retelling of the universe of stories in general (fuck Apollo, that’s all I have to say), Hercules by Disney is fun (though extraordinarily inaccurate), and who doesn’t like some Percy Jackson (the books, not the movies)?

Today’s entry won’t be the first of the Greek mythology stories this month; after all, it’s DEFINITELY fantasy, so there were going to be a few entries in here. Some will come pretty close to each other later this month, but for this one, we’re jumping forward 10 years from The Thief of Bagdad to 1950. Let’s get back to France, shall we?

Famous for his adaptation of Beauty and the Beast is Jean Cocteau, legendary French surrealist filmmaker. His stylings definitely capture a sort of practical magic, compounded with clever angles and fascinating visual and practical effects. It’s evident with the classic fairy tale, which I would’ve done this month had I not already seen it. So, instead, we’ll be looking at the middle film in a trilogy known as Cocteau’s Orphic trilogy. This is, apparently, the most important one. And that makes sense, since it’s focused upon...

Is Hadestown good? I’m real tempted to find a way to watch it, and it sounds like it’s just up my alley. I’ll probably check it out one of these days.

Orpheus was (maybe) the son of Calliope, the muse of poetry, and Apollo, god of music. Maybe. Parentage differs based on the retelling. No matter the parents, he was renowned for his charm and grace, as well as his voice and music. He was loved by animals, nymphs, and maidens alike. He was invited to be the Bard of Jason’s DnD group (AKA the Argonauts), and used Bardic Performance to inspire his comrades (and also helped them overcome the sirens by singing EVEN LOUDER).

But the one whom he loved most was his wife, Eurydice. Unfortunately, a satyr (AKA horny horned half-goat man) chased her right into a viper’s nest, where she was bitten and died. Orpheus was CRUSHED, and his song was so depressing that even the gods cried. They said, “Dude, go to the Underworld, get back your lady from Hades, please!” And he did.

Hades, the old romantic that he secretly is, agrees to let Eurydice’s soul, on one condition. That he doesn’t look back at her as she follows him out. Orpheus agrees, but the man can’t stop himself from looking back to make sure that she’s there. And she was...and then she wasn’t. So, our sad boi fucked up, and then...well, it’s spotty. 

See, some people say that he stopped worshipping Dionysus (his previous patron), and the wine boi’s female followers tore Orpheus to pieces as punishment. Some say that these same women got a liiiiiiiiiittle too into the Bacchanalia (think orgies, but religious and violent), and ripped him apart in a frenzy. And some say that he only took male lover from then on, and women tore him to pieces for not paying attention to them (also, possible homophobia). You know, it varies. Still, we can agree on the ripped apart by women thing. His head could still sing, and as the women threw his body parts into a river, it sang a song so beautiful that the rocks and branches in the river refused to strike it. His instrument of choice, a lyre, was eventually interred amongst the stars as the constellation Lyra.

The story of a pained artist searching for a lost love and losing her is all over the goddamn place, with the crazy-ass Moulin Rouge being a solid example of it.

But OK, let’s finally begin Orpheus, or Orphée to be more accurate. Gonna be a weird ride, I guarantee it. SPOILERS AHEAD!!!

Recap (1/2)

The story starts with a recap of the original myth, and notes that it doesn’t need to be limited  by time and place. This sort of story, after all, could happen anywhere and at any time. And in this case, that time and place are 1950s-era France, where we quickly meet famous poet Orpheus (Jean Marais).

At a café, he meets a friend, the Editor (Henri Crémieux), where they speak on Orpheus’ fame, which is not well-liked in a cafe frequented by poets. Also arriving there is a young drunken poet, Jacques Cégeste (Édouard Dermit), who is accompanied by his patron, known only as...the Princess (María Casares). Come on, guys, can we give our female characters names, please?

Anyway, Jacques quickly gets into a drunken brawl with other patrons, which leads to the arrival of the police at the café. They forcefully arrest him, but before they can, he’s hit by a couple of motorcycles, and potentially killed. The police bring Jacques back to the Princess’ car, with the help of her driver Heurtebise (François Périer). For unknown reasons, she summons Orpheus to help them. He agrees, and goes with them to the hospital.

Or he would be, if they were going there. Instead, as they drive off, Orpheus discovers that Jacques is dead already. They aren’t going to the hospital. Instead, they head to a mysterious mansion, as ominous and oblique poetry plays on the radio. They’re soon accompanied by the men on the motorcycles that killed Jacques, who work for the Princess. The plot fuckin’ THICKENS.

Back at her mansion, they bring the body of Jacques upstairs, much to the confusion of Orpheus, whom the Princess keeps calling stupid whenever he asks questions. However, he’s not proving her wrong, as she immediately convinces him that she’s actually dreaming at the moment. Although...maybe he is?

She sits in front of a mirror, which breaks...somehow. Frustrated, she commands Orpheus to wait there for her to return, as she goes to check on Jacques and her men. Like me, Orpheus is confused. This gets worse for me, though, as the Princess goes to the other room and tells the dead Jacques to get up. AND HE DOES. Well, Jacques’ a zombie, I guess. He identifies the Princess as “his Death”, which she agrees to. She tells him to hold on to her coat, and then...

...I got questions. I GOT QUESTIONS HERE.

They go through the mirror, and the Princess’ henchmen follow, just as Orpheus walks in. He also has questions, and he tries to go through the mirror, to no avail. Completely confused at this point, he passes out against the mirror, alone in the mansion. And then...he’s outside.

Yeah, he’s just outside now, and waiting there is Heurtebise, the chauffeur! Orpheus is freakin’ out, and Heurtebise has no answers for him, but has been told to take him back to town once he...arrived. OK. Still questions.

In town, the disappearance of Orpheus is being discussed by a police inspector, his wife Eurydice (Marie Déa), and her friend Aglaonice (Juliette Gréco). Aglaonice doesn’t seem to like Orpheus very much, as she’s trying to convince Eurydice that he’s cheating on her. And that’s hard to argue, since he was last seen with the Princess. However, just as there’s about to be a scandal reported by a spontaneously appearing journalist, Heurtebise and Orpheus arrive home.

After a rough encounter with the journalist, he arrives home to a relieved Eurydice, and an enraged Aglaonice, whom Orpheus also dislikes heavily. He’s apparently forbidden her from entering his house, and tells her off. The Inspector leaves too, and asks Orpheus to come to his office to discuss the matter of the missing Jacques.

Eurydice reminds Orpheus that Aglaonice is dangerous, as she runs...the League of Women. Well...I think we know what role Aglaonice is going to play by the end of this. Her and her League of Bacchanalian Women, get me? Yikes. Anyway, the conversation turns into an argument, when the EXTREMELY ornery Orpheus basically just storms off, being a DICK to his poor wife. And when he goes upstairs to his room, he actually sneaks out of the window.

Meanwhile, Heurtebise comes into the house to offer an alibi to the pained Eurydice. While she doesn’t quite believe it, the two share some time together and seem to bond. However, when he smells gas from the stove, Heurtebise lets it slip that he committed suicide by using a gas stove. He covers it up before Eurydice notices the slip-up, but...OK. So, “the Princess” is death. Going by the traditional Greek myth, she’s some form of psychopomp, and the world beyond the mirror is the Underworld, I can only assume. OK...I can dig it.

Orpheus, meanwhile, is at the car, listening to the strange radio poetry and writing it down. The, uh, “Princess” is busy as well. Like a ghost, she walks into the household and watches Orpheus as he sleeps. A narration refers to her as Orpheus’ death. Funny, I’m pretty sure that’s going to be Aglaonice’s role.

Two days later, Orpheus is increasingly obsessed with the poetry from the mysterious radio and its odd messages. While Eurydice seems to mock this obsession, Orpheus also seems to be far too enraptured in it. But, interestingly, the messages seem to be coming from nowhere known. However, it’s all beginning to affect their marriage greatly.

On the phone, the Inspector comes calling, and Eurydice asks Heurtebise to answer the phone. He does so, and soon after, we see the phone float into place, as if placed there by a ghost. That’s confirmed as Heurtebise phases to the outside from nothing, where he meets Orpheus and informs him of the message. The two decide to head to the Inspector in his car, rather than the mysterious talking car.

While Orpheus goes through town, looking for the Princess rather than the Inspector, there’s something that I wanted to mention here. Call it an interpretation. Apparently, Heurtebise is often considered an angel by critics and interpreters. However, I’m gonna suggest that he’s actually supposed to be a representation of Hermes, the messenger god and a psychopomp who escorted souls to the Underworld. Not sure about the Princess yet, but Cocteau apparently never meant for her to be portrayed as actual death. Interesting.

Meanwhile, at the Inspector’s office, both Aglaonice and Orpheus’ poet friends (supposedly) are accusing Orpheus of being involved in Jacques’ disappearance. The Inspector turns them away, just as Heurtebise and Orpheus reconvene in town. While Orpheus didn’t find the Princess, Heurtebise says that she came by, saying that he could stay with the married couple for now.

Speaking of the Princess, we see her at night, staring over Orpheus. And her eyes are...strange. They seem artificial, and it bothers the EVER-LOVING SHIT out of me. And the whole affair isn’t helping Eurydice either, as she’s tired of Orpheus’ obsession with the car, and is planning on going to Aglaonice for advice. Heurtebise tries to stop her from doing so, but she insists. But when she goes...the motorcyclists come for her. And she’s dead. As proven when the Princess arrives through the mirror.

Alongside her comes Jacques, acting as the Princess’ servant. She notes to him that their work isn’t easy, and couldn’t be done if she were dressed in the way the humans portray her. So, she is seemingly Death, or at least an aspect of Death. Obviously, as we’re talking about the Greek story, we can assume that she’s meant to be Hades in particular. But, we’ll see. It’s also confirmed, by the way, that the mysterious messages are indeed Jacques’ poetry, recited by him on the radio waves from beyond the grave. Neat.

Heurtebise is clearly upset with what’s just happened to Eurydice. He asks if the Princess actually had orders to kill Eurydice. She avoids the question, and guesses correctly that Heurtebise has fallen in love with Eurydice. He confirms this, and counters with the fact that the Princess has seemingly fallen in love with ORPHEUS. The plot fucking THICKENS.

Good place to pause, I think. Halfway mark and all. See you in Part Two!

[orphicpoieses]

𝘏𝘦𝘭𝘭𝘰 𝘢𝘯𝘥 𝘸𝘦𝘭𝘤𝘰𝘮𝘦 𝘵𝘰 𝘢 𝘯𝘦𝘸 𝘮𝘰𝘯𝘵𝘩!

𝙾𝚌𝚝𝚘𝚋𝚎𝚛 — 𝟸𝟶𝟸𝟸

Hi and welcome to my second Tumblr recap. This time we have a look on the month of October. It was a very stressful and life changing month for me. Doors closed, doors opened. Some time off of Tumblr, writing and studying. And the most important: a huge change in my life. More to this in 𝙿𝚎𝚛𝚜𝚘𝚗𝚊𝚕 𝚂𝚝𝚞𝚏𝚏.

But now, let’s dive in, in my personal recap!

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𝙶𝚎𝚗𝚎𝚛𝚊𝚕 𝙽𝚘𝚝𝚎𝚜

➵ October was the month of inactivity for me. Exams and vacation somehow interrupted my time on Tumblr.

➵ I finally opened my Discord! 🥳 More to this in 𝚃𝚑𝚎 𝚗𝚎𝚠 𝚖𝚘𝚗𝚝𝚑.

➵ I officially passed my personal record of followers. Thank you to every single one of you! I never thought my stuff will be interesting to you! 💕

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𝚆𝚛𝚒𝚝𝚒𝚗𝚐

➵ A new WIP has joined the chat: Project Stardust. I announced it already in the last recap, but since then nothing really happened with this idea… Still waiting for some inspiration…

➵ I worked a bit on The Legacy of the Airdra, but nothing much happened there. Mostly re-reading and remembering the details (since I forgot to write them down in summer 2020).

➵ Wings of Fate: I wish I could tell you more, but I haven’t written anything for weeks. It’s mocking me right now, sits in front of me with my favorite characters and telling me “you have no ideas!” Thats unfair…

➵ Something else has come onto my desk last week: A pen and paper game. 2019 was the first year, I actually wrote an adventure for a pen and paper game I founded. The game itself is already in the trash can, but the adventure still exists. I met a friend last weekend, who publishes adventures regularly for a german game called Midgard (my main system). And guess, who is thinking about publishing their first written thing ever? Yes! Correct! Me. 😁 So, stay tuned!

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𝙿𝚎𝚛𝚜𝚘𝚗𝚊𝚕 𝚂𝚝𝚞𝚏𝚏

Now to the messy part of the story…

Remember, how I told you in the September recap, my life is messy and I hope October will be better? Yeah, no.

It got worse.

Some of you may have heard that I study math. This winter semester is actually my last semester in the mathematics department.

A lot of things have happened in the last few weeks. Some were nice (I went to a private convention for Pen&Paper Roleplay), some were…not so nice.

No one actually knows that I change my department from math to computer science, except my parents, a friend of mine and the managing director of the cs department. And to know, that people will sigh in relief when they hear I quit, is kinda sad.

I don’t think that I couldn’t do it. I still believe, I am able to study math, but it is actually the department that makes me go away. Professors, who ask me openly how I passed exams because “you have no clue about the subject”. Managing directors, who tell me at the beginning of my third semester “you have passed the exams with 4.0. Have you thought of quitting?”. Students, who should help you, telling you: “How don’t you know that? We’re not telling you. You should know.”

I could go on about this, but I won’t. But this made me quit in the end. In a subject, that gets less and less students each year. When I first started, we were about 70 people in our semester. After three weeks, the number dropped to 60 and after the first exam, we were probably around 40. Now, I see around 15 people from my semester at university. Everyone else quit.

I believe, a lot of my mental health issues came from this department and the people there. Being be one nobody wants to have around, really does something with you. I always tried to prove my right to those people. My right to be part of this department. But in the end, I have to admit: You cannot change the opinion of other people.

Normally, I am a person, that finished everything what I started. Not this time. The new department excites me! The opportunity to work with my computer, with codes and software, being able to still have my science part and nevertheless be more practical, makes me happy. I should have quit way earlier, this is true. But without all those struggles, I would not be the person, I am today.

I have a feeling, that things may go different from here. Just like a new chapter awaits me.

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𝙸𝚖𝚙𝚘𝚛𝚝𝚊𝚗𝚝 𝙿𝚘𝚜𝚝𝚜

None of the following posts are really important, but I wanted to give them a shoutout:

➵ Project Stardust

➵ (the old) Discord post

➵ The cast of Wings of Fate

➵ My (updated) Tag List

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𝚂𝚙𝚎𝚌𝚒𝚊𝚕𝚜

I want to give a shoutout to the following blogs:

➵ @lockejhaven

➵ @365runesofwriting

➵ @blind-the-winds

➵ @writingpotato07

➵ @mirrorthoughts

➵ @yourfriendlywriter

➵ @moonlitinks

I want to thank you for sending me sweet messages throughout this stressful month of October. You don’t know how much I appreciate your kind words! They really helped me to stay sane. 💕

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𝚃𝚑𝚎 𝚗𝚎𝚠 𝚖𝚘𝚗𝚝𝚑

November. What will it bring?

➵ My life opens a new chapter for me and so do I for my life. This means, I hope to open my Discord server to the public. If you want to join, stay tuned for the introduction post to it!

➵ I hope, I can publish a new WIP intro soon. It is already done and just needs to be published. If you like whump, dark fantasy and high fantasy, this one is for you.

➵ Speaking of publishing: The Orphic News is still suffering from my loss of inspiration and time. But, I am working on publishing again. The publishing term will probably be once every month from now on, until there is more to tell.

➵ I am also planning on coding a Discord Bot for my server. I don’t know, how much you are interested in this, but I try to update the process in my personal space on Discord. Again, stay tuned for the post about my server!

And the rest will be defined by the future…

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𝘛𝘩𝘢𝘯𝘬𝘴 𝘧𝘰𝘳 𝘳𝘦𝘢𝘥𝘪𝘯𝘨!

[orphicpoieses]

𝘏𝘦𝘭𝘭𝘰 𝘢𝘯𝘥 𝘸𝘦𝘭𝘤𝘰𝘮𝘦 𝘵𝘰 𝘢 𝘯𝘦𝘸 𝘮𝘰𝘯𝘵𝘩!

𝙵𝚎𝚋𝚛𝚞𝚊𝚛𝚢 — 𝟸𝟶𝟸𝟹

Hi and welcome to another monthly recap!

If you are new here: Welcome! I usually do a personal recap at the end of each month, where I talk about how my writing went, important news and life recently.

I quit doing these for about 2 months now, but I am back again on making these little insights in my writer life.

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𝙶𝚎𝚗𝚎𝚛𝚊𝚕 𝙽𝚘𝚝𝚎𝚜

➵ I gained some new followers! If you are new on my blog: Hi and welcome! Nice to meet you! Feel free to tag me anytime or send me a message!

➵ There was an unplanned hiatus in January, but I am somehow back now.

➵ I started a new project. No, not a “new” new project, but a new book within my current project series.

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𝚆𝚛𝚒𝚝𝚒𝚗𝚐

➵ Back in the game since end of the month.

➵ My complete draft sits around 100k words (I don’t have an exact number right now, since half of it is written by hand…) and I am very proud of it.

➵ With the begin of the new part within the project, I am finally on the last few steps to finally finishing the first book of the series!

➵ Writing is currently not that bad. I write around 1-2k words every morning, so the story is currently growing really fast (which is nice!).

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𝙿𝚎𝚛𝚜𝚘𝚗𝚊𝚕 𝚂𝚝𝚞𝚏𝚏

February is the month I like somehow the most. Maybe, because my birthday is in February, but also it is kinda short and sweet. I finished my semester now and have a lot of free time currently, which is used for DIY projects, drawing and writing. But besides that, everything is a bit boring right now. Still active on the socials like Instagram and this beloved hellsite, even if I don’t know what to post at the moment… I might take a break for a while from actively creating content and just lurk around, posting here and there something and just having a look for new inspirations.

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𝙸𝚖𝚙𝚘𝚛𝚝𝚊𝚗𝚝 𝙿𝚘𝚜𝚝𝚜

This month was very quiet. The only posts I consider good are my self-reposts and the snippet I posted.

➵ a snippet from a side project

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𝚂𝚙𝚎𝚌𝚒𝚊𝚕𝚜

This month, I want to thank all my new followers for joining this small community of mine. You are awesome! 💕

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𝚃𝚑𝚎 𝚗𝚎𝚠 𝚖𝚘𝚗𝚝𝚑

➵ more free time! (I have to wait until April for me to get back to uni)

➵ I hope to get a good amount of my book done by the end of the month, so I can get back into the new semester with something to edit.

➵ Hopefully more activity on this hellsite. Everything was very quiet in the last four months, maybe now, I see some new or familiar faces again!

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𝘛𝘩𝘢𝘯𝘬𝘴 𝘧𝘰𝘳 𝘳𝘦𝘢𝘥𝘪𝘯𝘨!

[thegrapeandthefig]

30 days of Dionysus - 8

Day 8 -  Variations on this deity (aspects, regional forms, etc.)

That’s.. such a wide topic...

Let me start off by reminding everyone that ancient Greek cultus was not homogenous. Ancient Greece was a cluster of independant cities which, while sharing a pantheon, did things differently. So yeah, we’re gonna have plenty and plenty of regional forms and aspects for each god. I also want to point out that we’re also talking about a religion that changed a lot over the centuries. When someone now, in the 21th century, refers to “hellenic polytheism”, we’re talking about a simplified, unified, modernized version of the old cultus, no matter how recon you want to be. And that specific modern version is largely based upon the biggest ressource we have: Athens, and its golden age: the 5th century BC. 

Now, if you’re historically inclined like myself and many others on this website are, you can dig into academical articles and books and find out more about more localized ways of doing. 

As a said, there were many ways I could have gone with such a vague subject for today but I’m going to take the “regional form” route and talk about something I haven’t seen that much on tumblr yet: the thracian cult of Dionysus and its link to Orphism. This will be long, so I’m gonna put this under the cut and if you’re interested: buckle up. 

Thrace is a large region located at the northern part of modern-day Greece, the southern-middle part of Bulgaria and western part of Turkey. 

Basically, Thrace was its own thing, politically and culturally but we know very very little of pre-greek colonization Thrace because we don’t have any written source at all. What we know however, is that greek colonization began quite early on and that by the end of the 7th century BC, the Athenians were interested by the area for various reasons.

Context apart, the cult of Dionysus became so important in Thrace that during the Hellenistic period (aka post-Alexander the Great), we start seeing versions of myths were Dionysus is from Thrace. This has misled some historians into believing or at least, wondering if Dionysus has Thracian origins. Today, it has been proven that Dionysus is a completely Greek deity. Which means he was  most likely introduced in Thrace by Greek settlers. 

Anyway, here is the point: Dionysus was the most popular deity in Thrace and from this region, he gained two important epithets: Sabazius and Zagreus. Sabazius was the local Thracian god who got merged into Dionysus’ cult. This syncretism gave Dionysus an association with solar cult, for example. An association we don’t find in the “traditional hellenic context”. We have an example of Dionysus’ importance among the elite of Thrace in the 4th century BC, where he appears as the guaratantor of an oath about a regulation/treaty between one of the Thracian King’s successor and the people of Pistiros. 

As for Zagreus, this epithet is directly linked to the Orphic tradition. As far as I’m aware, the Orphic interpretation of the Thracian Dionysus comes from the bulgarian archeologist Alexander Fol. Keep in mind the information I will be giving here either from him or from other researchers who have taken his work into account. 

Let’s recap a little on the orphic myth of Dionysus-Zagreus: When Zagreus is born as the child of Persephone and Zeus, he unfortunately doesn’t succeed to escape Hera’s wrath and the Titans she sent upon him. Titans, who, when they get to kill the infant, dismember and eat him. Zeus, angered by the situation, kills the titans with lightning. Apollo collects what is left of Zagreus’ body in the ashes, Athena saves his heart and he then reborn as the son of Zeus and Semele, under the name of Dionysus. 

As such, Zagreus is sometimes called the “First Dionysus” and has in essence a much more chtonic aspect than his “second” version and it is *believed* that the orphic cult of Dionysus-Zagreus is actually closer to the primitive Thracian cult practices. Fol’s interpretation of it is that Thracian Orphism is an elite oral tradition preaching the principles of harmony between the chthonic Zagreus and the solar Orpheus (among more stuff). That would give us a bacchic practice more focused on the idea of a twice-born god, paired with with a more symbolic version of the classical sparagmos/dismemberement of offerings/animals. In this case, it is not only bacchic madness, but a reenactement of the first incarnation of Dionysus. 

I won’t go into full detail with Orphism and all the philosophy around it because omg not now + there would be a looooot to say and there are a lot of debates around it.

Lastly, there is a third, less important epithet that Dionysus gained from Thrace:  Bassareus, derivative from a word meaning “fox-skin”, which was worn by dionysian worshippers during mysteries.  

It also appears that there were several oracles of Dionysus in Thrace, but I won’t go too far into this, as the sources are a bit scarce the exact localization of the oracles are a work in progress. Traditionally however, an oracle of Dionysus was supposed to be situated on Mont Pangaion.

I think I will stop here. If you want sources or reading recommandations: ask and I’ll be happy to provide. Hopefully that was not too messy and somewhat helpful.