#and by choosing not to kill Kylo and have the “ends justify the means”

[artist-issues]

you guys it's possible for an actor to be disappointed in his character's new direction without that character's new direction actually being bad

[orionlakehastodie]

Lol thank you S2 of Shadow and Bone

Okay you know what, Alina did not deserve Aleksander.

The initial draw that Darklina had for me was it's Reylo parallels

Aleksander and Ben are both people who wanted something good but the means they used to justify those ends are only moral in a utilitarian sense

-Ben has been persecuted all his life for being Vader's grandson, was preyed on by Palpatine and his own mother, father and uncle looked at him like he was some big problem and so he wanted to be ruler of a galaxy where he will no longer be persecuted

-Aleksander has been persecuted all his life for being Grisha, he has watched his own family die, his lover, and countless friends

-Both of them find an unlikely soulmate in the hero of the story

-Rey is an orphan seeking belonging, finding purpose in being the Last Jedi and being the savior of the galaxy and yet she's inexplicably drawn to Ben Solo

-Alina is an orphan seeking belonging, finding purpose in being the Sun Summoner and being savior of Ravka

Then there's the sizzling Force Bond connections between them that make everything extra appealing because who doesn't appreciate Force Bonds people?

But here is where things differ:

-When Rey found out that all of this happened to Ben (this meaning Luke tried to kill him, he has been hearing voices in his head, he feels alone) >Rey almost kills Luke, confronting him for what he has done >Ships herself to her Space Husband and tries to save him from Palpatine -When Ben however being the idiot that he is still chooses to stick with his rule the galaxy plan, Rey says fuck this and (rightfully) fights against him -Ultimately though, she admits that she wanted him, but not as Kylo Ren but as Ben, her Ben that she knows is in there

-Ben realizes that living wanting revenge and being angry all the time was not helpful to him and tries to make ammends -He saves Rey and I may not agree with his death as it truly defeats the purpose of his character arc but it was in keeping with character - Ben loves Rey more than anything, more than his own revenge

In the end the Dyad becomes a true soulmate pair, they love each other so much that they are willing to do anything for the benefit of the other, they love each other so much that nothing else matters.

This season 2 of Shadow and Bone was only palatable because of the chemistry Jessie and Ben have but ultimately

-Alina is a thoughtless, selfish child. She could not grasp why Aleksander did all of this in the way Rey understood why Ben did what he did to become Kylo. In her head Aleksander is just a monster, who lied to her and deceived her and she's the big warrior ready to defeat the big bad monster -I always hated Mal but I truly felt and sympathized with him this season because unlike in the books - Mal is fully supportive of Alina in her ventures and did not try to stop her from using her powers. He just tried to stop her from combusting and killing everyone around them. But how does Alina treat him - she ends up getting engaged to a Prince she flirts with THEN gets angry at Mal when Mal doesn't get jealous/hurt/fight for her. Like Alina girl, make up your damned mind about this. -She has no sympathy for anyone, and only feels bad for herself, seeking Merzost -in the end she uses the Cut which is like yeah, obviously, your girl was hungry for this power

-Aleksander was well fleshed out this season and we see the complex feelings he has for his mother and Alina, but as Ben Barnes described it the toxicity within him where he is unable to see reason in the way Ben Solo did his - therefore he was incapable of changing for people he loved

So in conclusion, I'm not so angry at the way this ended because truly Alina did not deserve Aleksander OR Mal OR Nikolaj. She's just this petty pathetic poorly written girl who's only value is that she can summon the sun.

Aleksander deserved to die because he would have never stopped his search for power because that came before love, before anyone or anything. His desire to save Grisha has been corrupted and in that way he never would have stopped even if he became Tsar.

Also kudos to Mal for breaking up with Alina. Like yes please run for your life this girl does not know what she wants and just uses people wishy washy

Can we be done with the Grisha arc because I'd much rather see Nina, Inej, Zoya and Genya featured - I loved how Inej and Kaz blossomed in this season and Jesper and Weylan are so cute. I need to see Nina and her Fjerdan together again

Also don't get me started on Genya - like was that fucking necessary.

I mean I never had high hopes about Leigh Bardugo but really kudos to the chemistry between Ben and Jessie and how they really brought some form of humanity into these characters that got me to love them, but no amount of Ben and Jessie can save this truly atrocious writing.

I also recently saw an interview where Ben was like - the way to win an Oscar is if you do something less good with me the year before and I really felt for him, someone needs to give Ben Barnes the script he deserves :(

[falling-violet-petals]

Thoughts on Star Wars after watching the movies for the first time (contains spoilers)

So I just binged watched all the star wars movies for the first time (I had watched the original trilogy before but never really paying much attention) and I don't know if I like them or not. I have a similar problem as I do with harry potter where there's a million tiny moments where I just see so much potential and it would've been so good if only they would have done some things differently but at the end there are so many things I would change that it would end up being a completely different thing and not star wars anymore. Which I think just means they're not really for me, and that's ok, but I did still like them, I thought they were fun. I don't know, maybe it's too soon to tell and I need to give myself more time to really process it.

I think one of the things that made me feel like this is that the movies themselves really confused me as to what they were trying to be. It is clearly not a science fiction story because all the cool technology is more of a background prop than a theme, but despite what a lot of people say I don't think it is a space opera either. The interpersonal relationships of the characters only really matter and affect the plot in the final act of each trilogy where the bad guy and the good guy face each other and are forced to acknowledge the connection that they have, and in the original trilogy it isn't even that big of a connection. To be honest I felt like the movies were just trying to be both a space opera and a war story in a way that just felt like it didn't accomplish either of the two, I couldn't tell if the characters were an attempt at justifying the need for a final battle for every single movie or if the battles were an attempt at making character arcs end in a more epic or meaningful way (is George Lucas even aware that there are other ways to end a film?). Maybe I should have taken a hint from the title and known that I wouldn't like this because of how I don't like most war metaphors because of how poorly constructed they usually are.

Speaking of poorly constructed war metaphors, I really don't get the whole dark side vs light side thing. It seems extremely reductive to me. I know that you could argue that the Jedi are shown to have flaws in how they handle emotions and that there could be a Sith that was good and just used their feelings in order to use the force, and I would actually agree with it, but my problem with how it's depicted is that all of that is just meta commentary and it is not at all what the actual movies show. No movie actually delves into those topics, there are some hints towards that being the case, yes, but if your fictional world has a group of people that is evil and a group of people that is good, and you spend no actual time dealing with the question of what the words evil and good even mean in the first place or engage in the conversation of how evil and good can coexist or even be the same thing because they are subjective, then you're not doing that topic justice. And Anakin and Kylo Ren aren't enough of an answer when both of their storylines end with them just choosing one over the other. The truth is, every single Sith that is in the movies is a bad guy and every single Jedi is a good guy, even if they are shown to have flaws or they sometimes change sides, and to me that still feels reductive. I just wish there was more of an exploration of the possibility of being both dark and light simultaneously, Kylo Ren seems such a lost opportunity for that, he was so close to it until they just decided to revive Palpatine instead. And the whole good/evil thing isn't even the only moment that is like this where it could be great if only they had just decided to expand on it a bit more, there are slaves and sentient droids and genetically modified clones being used and killed left and right with no more than a few minutes in 9 whole movies that actually acknowledge the morality of it, and I understand that they didn't intend for it to be science fiction and that is what science fiction is, but the lack of interest of engaging in deep topics just frustrated me. But once again, I get it, I am expecting too much of these films, I get that most people that watch them do it for the cool futuristic sword fights and for the blowing things up and for the dopamine of watching the good guys win another battle at the end, whatever that means. Maybe Ursula K Le Guin has just given me so much that now I have too high of a standard for blockbuster movies that are just meant to be marketable and fun. And they are fun, so I don't see why I can't fully bring myself to say I like them.

Another thing that just irked me was how incredibly male these movies are. It is obvious in the lack of lead women characters but it is not just that. There are many many moments that are directly influenced by a more masculine world view. Both the Jedi and the Sith seem to be based on ideals of masculinity, one being the stoic rational emotionless men and the other being anger-driven oppressive men (I could write a whole essay about this). I laughed at Luke's reaction to his uncle and aunt dying because of how emotionless it felt, he only seems sad for a minute and immediately gets over it and doesn't think about them ever again in any of the movies. I also dislike that star wars is so explicitly about families and love that it is the beginning of the entire plot but it has a very narrow view of families where it gives so much importance to blood ties and legacy and such and it really seems like it all revolves around the patriarch of the family. Luke's insistence on calling Darth Vader his father and insisting on him still having a good side is quite weird to me considering he really doesn't know him at all. And although I do get Vader's hesitation in killing Luke because he knows it is the last thing of Padmé that is left, I think that it was such a wasted opportunity that he never gets to know that Leia is his daughter. He could have had an even more justified emotional reaction if he realized that the girl he had literally tortured before was his daughter and that he could have killed her without even knowing it just like he had killed Padmé without knowing it. But it is all wasted because the writers could just not conceive a movie where the climax is between a daughter and her father instead of between a son and his father because in their patriarchal view of family that is the only relation that matters, because sons are the ones that inherit a father's power because women have no power, and so Luke gets everything while Leia just sits back and looks pretty. Leia is the one with knowledge in politics and who grew up being a part of this fight but Luke is the one that is chosen to be trained as a Jedi despite both having the potential for it, he is the one that is told about his father and trusted with the information and he is the only one allowed to face him at the end and he is the only one who turns him and he is the protagonist. Again, lost potential. And at least the sequels seem to fix this issue somewhat and they give Rey power and authority and they give us characters with no blood relations until they then fuck it up and make Rey a Palatine and make her power come from her grandfather's power, a man's power. But even then they do show more moments of genuine care and love that escape these two options of being either stoic or angry, I think one of my favorite moments of all the movies is in the last film when they all hold each other's hands, it is such a sweet moment that I think would be impossible in the other two trilogies.

And I think against most people's opinions that the sequels are probably my favorite for this reason, it fixed some of the things that had to be fixed. And I think having a sequel in order to fix it was so necessary, but honestly I would have liked it to take a completely different direction. I both like and dislike them. I like Rey and I like Finn and Poe, they are my favorite trio in all the trilogies, and I like Kylo Ren because until then all of the talk of turning darksiders to the light side didn't feel that well thought out, but I truly don't like how they just go back to the exact same thing that the original trilogy was, movie 7 is the same as movie 4 and there is still too much time spent on battles and too little on actually engaging with the themes the movies are supposedly about, and the first order being so powerful honestly makes me feel like the ending of movie 6 was worth nothing. I would have liked it much more if the trilogy dealt instead with the aftermath to what happened in the originals and the lives of ordinary people like Rey and Finn. And even with how they are I didn't like the last movie, Palatine just came out of nowhere and it seemed to me just a cheap way to give Kylo Ren plausible deniability by having a superior to respond to so that people wouldn't get mad at his redemption and I also hated how they killed him immediately after redeeming him when in my opinion one of the most interesting parts of a redemption is the following arc of a character learning to accept what they've done and making amends and learning that not everyone is going to accept it. Him dying is just a way to be able to immediately make him a hero and not deal with the consequences of his redemption, and I feel that is quite cowardly for a movie to do. Every step of these movies I just keep seeing ways to evade delving deeper into the topics that they themselves bring up.

The original trilogy I don't know how I feel about. Maybe it is because they are the star wars movies that are the most praised for their originality which as someone who is an avid fiction reader is something I don't see in them, or because most of the people praising them do so from a deeply nostalgic feeling which I do not have having watched them only just now, or maybe it is because I see in them that weird outdated world view that old movies that talk about the future have. I do have to say they are better written than the prequels, and I like their pacing a lot more, though I don't feel any emotional connection with the characters even after 3 movies with them. I do like Han and Leia's romance, and I think it is an interesting set up for a fantasy world (because it is fantasy), but it is not much more than that.

The prequels I didn't like much either, but they did succeed at something that I really needed after watching the originals first (I watched them in release order) and that is giving context. I don't think they do a great job at world building, but however cool the mysterious aura of the originals was, they left so many unanswered questions like Leia somehow being a princess and a senator (for what senate we don't know) or who their mother is, and I finally got my answers here. I did also get more questions like what even happens during the clone wars but I think I'll only get answers for that in other adjacent star wars shows which I don't know if I want to watch yet. And I felt that the prequels were so strongly trying to give context and backstory and depth to the originals that they were often dealing with too many things at the same time and expanding on them too little. I also felt Anakin's switch to the dark side was too abrupt and didn't happen at the right moment, there are indicatives of him having been tempted by the dark side way before, yes, but they were too distant in time to make them feel relevant then and his scene when he switches sides is too sudden. It feels completely in character for him to kill Windu, but I would have expected for him to show at least the smallest bit of resistance afterwards, I think I would have been happy with even half a minute of hesitation or guilt before he surrenders, but that never happens. I do have to say the fight between Anakin and Obi wan was quite good, it was properly paced, it felt real to the characters and made sense, so even if I don't like ending a conflict with a battle just this once George Lucas can have it, I did like that fight scene, which honestly quite surprised me.

So, those are my thoughts for now, I might watch some of the other movies and shows that are out there because I did feel like I was missing a lot of context and lore, or I might wait a while and then rewatch the movies and maybe by then my opinion might have changed, I don't know. Also for clarity I have to say that I did not watch these movies in a good moment at all, I read Earthsea just a month ago which is a series that is not afraid of delving into deep philosophical questions and I think it made my expectations for other media way too high, and I also watched these movies right after I finished reading The Bell Jar, which in my opinion probably made all of the emotional moments seem milder in comparison, watching a boy consider the possibility of having to kill his own father (that he's known for 5 minutes, mind you) doesn't really seem that extreme after reading 200 pages of a woman in an asylum describing how she wants to kill herself.

[fakerboi]

Anti

I am anti Snape and anti Reylo and anti Bakugo.

Like, Snape, Kylo, and Bakugo suck and I don’t like them at all, they’re mean, but also fictional so whatever. My hatred for them really stems from their fans and the shit they pull. Fucking “uwu these characters are my innocent traumatized babies who did nothing wrong”. Disgusting. If your character acts shitty, acknowledge it at least, or else what the fuck, you a fake fan. You can like villains, assholes, you can like characters who suck and are complicated, but not acknowledging their shit (regardless of the trauma) really takes away from the character and their development away from their shitty behavior (if applicable).

Snape - you can save lives and still be a piece of shit. you bullied children due to trauma? still not okay. plz own up to your shit. James Potter was shitty, okay, but at least he grew out of that shit unlike Snape. 

Kylo - you can have a relatively good life but still choose to be a bad person and you suck. He’s a tantrum loser making the universe a worse place. Like, why did he choose to go dark side? What does he want? Fucking tough shits, you’re uncle THOUGHT about killing you, doesn’t justify killing his students (a good number of which were children). Leave, go back to your loving parents, or not just get away from there and not murder people and join the new space nazis. I just don’t find it compelling or sensible. I think it’s fair to be like, “you purposely murdered your loving father in order to try to be edgier and be like your shitty idol, you suck, fuck you, you’re not here for redemption”

Bakugo - bullied Deku for 14 years straight and told him to kill himself. Continues to be an ass to and fight Deku. Like, where was the part where he learned that it’s morally wrong to bully others and faced the consequences of his shitty actions towards Deku. The way he acts isn’t okay just because Deku is “stronger” and can “handle it” now and they’ve decided to be “rivals” now. I know they’re complicated characters with Deku admiring Bakugo and Bakugo being jealous and feeling threatened by Deku, but that shit was fucked man and they could at least acknowledge that.

Kylux > Reylo because they tend acknowledge that those two are morally questionable at least, they are the new space nazis, and their dynamic is not that sweet (unless that’s the fanfic/fanart). It’s not always relationship goals, but it doesn’t need to be. It’s fun to explore their antagonistic relationship, making it romantic or sweet or tolerable or hate sex or whatever else. But not in a denial way like Reylos.

Reylo - bitches be shipping them since the first sequel movie, and not in a good way. love at first sight delusion because everybody else remembers that when they first met, he threw her into a tree, mentally tortured her, harmed her friends, killed a cool dude she knew (Han Solo), and she mutilated him a little by the end. But naw, reylos be like “mmm, the sparks are flying, love is in the air”. Like bitch, wtf, we are not watching the same movie and you are fucked in the head, not even in a mental illness kind of way, if that’s what you’re seeing. Literally the first thing she does when she sees him again in the second movie is try to shoot him dead, y’know, because all that terrible shit he did in the first movie. But then the movies continued to get worse and Finn (& Poe) deserved more (screen time and development).

I can handle looking at shit I don’t like, there was a snape fanfiction that was sooooo good, there was a reylo fanart that was really cute, bakugo fanart exists. I don’t go frothing at the mouth just because someone makes and likes that shit, but as I said, I really hate when supposed fans can’t acknowledge the shitty actions/behaviors of their “fave”. 

[mandaloriangf]

Something about Reylo that just baffles me is the fact that it kind of makes it virtually impossible for the trio to continue being a trio after the events of TROS?? Like how do you tell your friends Poe and Finn, “Hey, remember that evil guy who tortured you, put you into a coma, murdered Han and Luke, tried to murder Leia, and personally perpetuated the enslavement of children that directly traumatized you as the willing leader of the First Order?? Well, I’m in love with him and we made out 🥰” Poe and Finn would have to have 0 self-respect to be able to just blithely accept that and continue to uncritically be her friends. At the very least, there would have to be a long period of perfectly justified anger and resentment towards her

I mean, I know that people will try to counter this by talking about Luke and Vader, but that’s fundamentally different??? Like, Luke didn’t CHOOSE to have Vader as a father, and it’s perfectly understandable why someone would be unable to help but love their parents even after knowing that they did wrong, especially if the kid basically hero-worshipped their parent all their life before discovering the truth. But Reylo??? These two had no real prior connection to each other (the force dyad thing was lazy and poorly written plot device, so I don’t consider that to be sufficiently convincing), so her caring so much about him comes across as unreasonable, especially since all she knows about him as that he’s an evil overlord who severely injured Finn and killed his own father. (Anidala also works where this fails because Padme had years of getting to fall in love with a genuinely heroic Anakin, which explains why she still cannot help but love him even after he went dark side). Meanwhile, in TROS, Rey CHOSE to have Kylo as a boyfriend, and CHOSE to fall in love with him and kiss him. And that’s so??? Bad???

Just... there’s literally no way that Disney can convince me that Finn, Poe, and Rey continue to be a trio after TROS :/ Not after Rey decided to stan a dude who hurt Poe and Finn so badly

with vader, at the end he chose to love and save his son and hadn’t previously rejected luke’s offer of redemption. kylo, on the other hand, has literally no real prominent relation to rey that would make her feel so strongly that he can be turned AND he rejects her multiple offers to turn. if anything, she looks like an idiot for continuing to giving him chances and then it sends an absolutely horrible message that if you keep trying to save the abusive boy you love, it will eventually work. god i feel sick thinking about that. 

there’s just no way the poe and finn we know would be able to friends with rey if they knew all that. she NEVER holds kylo accountable for what he did to them, she just kind of ignores it and if it were me in their shoes, i’d see her as having betrayed me

[clara-oswinoswald]

Who deserves to be redeemed?

antis keep on saying that “Kylo” should not have been redeemed because he was a murderer/villain. Do they just hate the idea of people bettering themselves? Anyone should be able to learn and change and overcome their past. All people are redeemable, because all people are capable of goodness. Just because someone has been bad doesn’t mean that is who they are forever. We grow and change throughout our lives.  

 Ben Solo was manipulated to the dark side by Snoke/Palpatine. That was never his choice. He never chose the darkness in the same way that someone like Palpatine did. He felt neglected by his family and Snoke/Palpatine stepped in and manipulated him. Ben never killed Luke’s students, Snoke/Palpatine did. All the bad advice that Ben had, “the voices in his head” were Palpatine. He was an abuse victim. He resisted the dark side and Palpatine for 23 years. That shows intense strength of mind. He only turned after he thought Luke was going to attack him. And he was on the dark side for  7 years, which is relatively short, compared to Anakin’s 22 year dark side experience. 

There are so many moments throughout these films when he is called to the light, he even mentions it in TFA. “I feel it again, the pull to the light”. As in, it has happened before. I’m not justifying everything he has done, he is a morally grey character, and he can be held accountable for things he has done. But many of the choices he thought he made were not choices, and his mind was constantly being manipulated. Also, he did better himself. Who he was at the beginning of TFA is not who he was at the end of TROS. he had a really great character arc. He started off scary and villainous in TFA. In TLJ he is super conflicted, and in TROS he chooses the light and becomes Ben Solo once more. He fights side by side with Rey against the sith and the dark side. 

Also, almost all the characters in Star Wars have blood on their hands. They are characters in the middle of a war. The resistance blew up Starkiller base without thinking once of the innocent lives - potentially other stormtroopers who may have wanted to deflect, like Finn did. 

As someone who could have had a whole life ahead of him at 30 years old, why did Ben’s seven year stint on the dark side weigh more heavily than his 23 years on the light? Surely, at 30, he should have been able to restart? Maybe Reylos are just more forgiving, and optimistic, believing in the potential goodness of people. 

[And, this is also fiction, where real-life moral and judicial codes do not apply in the same ways they do to real people.]

[kylorenfanfic]

Long Away - chapter 6

Kylo Ren x Female Reader

masterlist

Words: 2.6k Sorry for any typos or grammar mistakes, that can happen :\  Make sure of reading the ending note :)

It has been one week since you arrived in the First Order cruiser. You already knew better the inside of the ship, although there were places where you weren’t allowed to go – such as the Supreme Leader’s chambers.

You haven’t really saw more of Kylo Ren ever since the training session, and you also didn’t try to contact him. You didn’t want to sound desperate to be closer to him – and by that you meant you wanted to gain his trust so you could know better how to help the Resistance somehow, at least that was what you were telling yourself.

Hux saw you the other day walking towards the cafeteria.

“I see you are adapting yourself” he commented walking next to you in the large hall, his hands were on his back.

“Just going to get some food” you replied.

“Just because I’ve helped you to join our Order doesn’t mean I trust you. Neither does Kylo Ren, even though you are being trained by him.”

“Where all of this came from           ?” you stopped and stared at him.

“Things are going all too easy on you, that’s not normal. And now knowing you are Force sensitive, who knows what you are doing.”

“Well, Hux, only more experienced people than me can control the Force well enough to do something really useful with it, like manipulating people. Also, only weak-minded people can be controlled. Are you, General, suggesting that either you or our Supreme Leader are weak-minded?” his gaze stared at you with such an annoyance that you could felt it in your soul. You smirked at him and he turned away, you kept walking to the cafeteria.

You sat by the table alone, it was not the first time that it happened. On a table next to you a few Stormtroopers where chatting and you started to over hear their conversation.

“They said he was merciless at Tah’Nuhna” one said

“So I heard, but it is not like they didn’t deserve it.” Other replied

“I guess it just doesn’t justify destroying a whole civilization because of that”

“Where’s this planet anyway, it’s not like they matter.”

“It’s in the Mid Rim, and even though it’s a small planet, they were still live-beings, I heard that they were a very welcoming people.”

“And that was their doom.”

           “It’s still not fair, you know, they did nothing wrong, they were always neutral.”

           “You are starting to sound just like a deserter. If you think that helping the Resistance is doing nothing wrong maybe I should arrest you.”

           “That is not what I am talking about, LM-763. Just nevermind.”

           “Better.”

           They both stood up to leave, LM-763 went faster ahead and you asked to the other one.

           “What happened in Tah’Nuhna?”

           “The Supreme Leader destroyed it” he answered and left.

           Kylo Ren destroyed your temple and now were destroying entire civilizations and for what? To show off his dominance? You felt anger. You haven’t even finished your food when left the cafeteria, you walked to your room, your hands closed on fists. You entered your room and felt like hitting stuff. You used the Force to get the small table you had there to make it fly across the room and hit the wall with strength – that was just a ridiculous use of the Force. You tried to control yourself by closing your eyes. It wasn’t proper of a jedi to feel anger. You opened your eyes: you weren’t a jedi, nor ever would be. You couldn’t go to the Dark Side of the Force though, you couldn’t let that happen – you couldn’t become what he was.

           You got the table across the room, it was broken now and you called a droid to pick it up and bring you a new one. No one could know about it.

             You left your room only at night. You woke up in the middle of the night and couldn’t go back to sleep, no specific reason actually; it wasn’t the Force calling you out. You felt bored and decided to go out for a walk. Since there wasn’t really a night – overall you all were in a ship in space – there was always movement inside the ship, the sleeping time was usually the same for most people, but for others it was the opposite, so the cruiser would be always protected and the First Order working. Still though, usually there were less people around at this time.

           You walked towards the training center, it was empty, which was odd since there were always someone in there. The cafeteria was also empty, just some janitors cleaning up. Instead of going back to your chambers you decided to walk a little more, since you had nothing better to do in your room and couldn’t sleep. Most of the ship were long halls and a few places where you weren’t allowed to enter, still though, you did enter one of the rooms, your curiosity spoke higher.

           It was a little different from the other rooms, and you noticed it were someone’s chambers. It was huge – you felt a little jealous, yours was so small. You wondered who lived there, who could need so much space; also asked yourself if that person’s chambers were that big, imagine how big Kylo Ren’s would be. You thought that the important chambers were in the superior floor. At first sight there were just tech things, some objects, the white walls calling out attention for being different from the rest of the ship that was all so grey. In the other room, you saw a large bed, everything was so clean and organized. Nothing much to see in there, there was a data-pad on a table with other objects, none called out your attention, there were probably no good information in that data-pad, it wasn’t like it belonged to someone important.

           Turning your back to find your way out you saw it. On the top of a large white pillar there was the remains of Darth Vader’s burned mask. Your eyes opened wide in a surprised reaction. In all of the rooms that you could sneak in you had to choose Kylo Ren’s chambers. You fastened your steeps to the exit, and in no time you were almost running in the hallway, you weren’t paying attention, your mind covered with thoughts. Maybe his chambers being in that floor explained while you two met days ago, when the Force wanted to connect you two for some reason. Did someone see you in there? No one could know, they would think you were trying to spy. Well… you were a spy somehow, but ending up in there was an accident. What if Kylo Ren had figured it out and was already on his way and he would get inside your mind? You weren’t as strong as him, you wouldn’t be able to hide your thoughts and memories again. A flush of panic were starting to get over you and you were trying to control it, you were almost getting to your own room when you hit someone.

           It was a woman, she was wearing a military First Order uniform, her blonde hair tied up with a hat on.

           “I’m sorry…” you started.

           “Where were you going in a hurry?” she asked. By the way she was dressed up, she probably was some kind of captain or major.

           “Going back to my dorm” you pointed to your room’s door, a few feet away from where you stand.

           “You are that hunter, aren’t you?” she was still serious, you nodded. “Where were you?” she asked

           “I was out for a walk since I couldn’t sleep, but I’m sorry, have I done something wrong, is that some short of interrogatory?” before she could answer, a trooper arrived next to you two and asked for her attention.

           “General Hux requires all the officials presence. He wants to discuss about the Fondor situation.”

           ��Which Fondor situation?” you asked. She gave you a very annoyed look.

           “None of your concern, bounty hunter.” And both of them left. You stared at them while they walked away, you waited a bit before following them.

           While walking in a large hall that would lead to the superior floor you heard many Stormtroopers marching to the inferior floor. That called out your attention more than the Hux’s reunion; those troopers were probably going to the mission that had to do with the “Fondor situation”. You followed to the inferior floor, where the hangars were, trying to not be seen. You hid yourself behind some large boxes, you could see the ships getting ready, Stormtroopers going inside of them and Kylo Ren getting ready to leave with them.

           You felt a blaster on your back.

           “Who are you?” you turned your head back, putting your hands up and saw a trooper who caught you spying.

           “I am (Y/N) Lacer” you replied, hoping that your name would ring a bell in the trooper’s head.

           “We have a spy here” the trooper said in the communicator. The troopers in the other side walked to your direction and that called out Ren’s attention. He saw you. He started walking in your direction.

           While the Supreme Leader was walking in your direction, the trooper was escorting you, with your hands tied up on your back by their hands, in the Leader’s direction. Kylo stopped walking in front of you and stared at you, no expression, no words.

           “So, when were you going to tell me you guys are going out to a party?” you said with an amused look on your face, maybe it would get you out of trouble.

           “What are you doing in here?” he asked

           “You know, the usual, spying around, trying to destroy the First Order, trying to kill the Supreme Leader, etc. etc.” you rolled your eyes he sighed deeply.

           “Is everything a joke to you?”

           “Is everything so serious to you?” you replied.

           “I asked you why you are here, in the middle of the night when-“

           “Technically there’s no night since we are-” you saw the way he was looking at you “I couldn’t sleep and started walking around when I overheard about some ‘Fondor situation’ and I ended up here. I really just arrive. I am sorry, I wasn’t spying around” this last part was a lie, but he wouldn’t suspect you since you joked before. You hoped so at least.

           “Leave” he said turning around and the trooper released you.

           “Wait!” you yelled running after Kylo. He turned back to stare at you once more

           “What is it now?”

           “That’s it? No complaining? Explanation? Telling me why we haven’t trained yet?”

           “I’m busy.”

           “You are so…” you wanted to say annoying. You wanted him to give you attention, you felt like a child. His eyebrows raised waiting for your answer, and you could tell it wasn’t wise of you to insult the Supreme Leader – again.

           “Can I go with you?” you simply asked, not completing your previous sentence.

           “No” and he started walking again towards the ship.

           “Oh, come on! I am you apprentice, aren’t I? Give me some action, please. Give me a trust vow also. Let me prove my loyalty.” You said again going after him, he stared at you and while those deep brown eyes were looking into yours, all you wanted to hear was his yes. You didn’t even remember that you should go to get information for the Resistance, you just wanted Kylo Ren’s attention. By now, you wanted to know him. You wanted to know the man that destroyed everything you loved and made you run away to hide for years in a distant planet all alone. And maybe get your revenge. No, that wasn’t you. Or was it?

           “Yes” he said and you widely smiled.

           “Yes!” you replied smiling with an excited little jump. You were really acting like a child. You couldn’t tell but at that moment, Kylo Ren also wanted to smile at seeing your excitement. He didn’t though.

             The “Fondor situation” was worse than you expected to be. Actually, you had no idea what you were actually expecting, but it ended up with Kylo Ren decapitating Fondor’s leader with his lightsaber.

           “I have already told you” the Fondor leader was laying down on the floor, troopers around them with blasters in their hands “we have done nothing wrong. A Resistance contingent passed through here, but we refused to assist them.” He declared.

           You were quite behind the whole situation, watching it as an outsider, you were among the Stormtroopers in the entrance of the room. Kylo Ren was next of the Fondor’s leader.

           “So you admit that you have had contact with enemies of the First Order.” He spoke with such an imposing voice “such an act of treason necessitates extreme measures. Effective immediately, the First Order will take control of the shipyards.”

           “But Fondor has always been independently run! Even the Empire…” the Fondor’s leader tried to speak again. Kylo got his saber on his hands and lighted it up, the red color reddening the ambient.

           “We have learned from the mistakes of the Empire. They were too lenient.” He raised the saber “the Resistance is looking to replenish their lost ships and weapons… it is imperative they find none.” And with a single movement he cut the leader’s head. You didn’t close your eyes, you watched the whole scene, but you heart was beating so fast that you wouldn’t be surprise if it came out of your chest. You had seen Kylo Ren killing before, killing your people and this… your anger grew. You were supposed to help him doing that… killing people who have done nothing wrong, that just came in the way of something that that spoiled bastard hated?

           “Make sure the word is spread from here to the farthest corner of the galaxy” he last declared turning his back to the decapitated body while the tiara on the leader’s head fell on the cold floor. Kylo started walking to the exit, the same place where you were, you saw his face, he had no expression on, no feelings. You clenched your chaw and turned your back, you didn’t wait for Kylo reach you, a trooper put his hand on your shoulder so you wouldn’t leave, the Supreme Leader noticed that.

           You followed the troopers back to the main ship, along the Supreme Leader, while the so many others stayed on land to destroy that civilization.

             You sat on a chair looking at the viewport that gave view to the planet outside, you could see the light of the explosions on land. You couldn’t wait to go back to the First Order cruiser to be in your room. Maybe you should just leave and go back and fight aside with the Resistance.

           “They were traitors and needed punishment” you heard the deep voice behind you. It was just you and him in the room. You didn’t look behind to see him. You remained silent. “The Empire failed and I will not commit their same mistakes, there won’t be independent planets in my galaxy, there won’t be resistance.” Was he explaining his actions to you?

           You looked at him with a blank expression, your face didn’t say anything but maybe your eyes did, you still felt anger.

           “I won’t accept any complains towards my actions” he declared at least staring at you.

           “I didn’t say anything” you said at least.

           “Your actions did, so did your feelings. You felt anger.”

           “I thought you wanted me to feel angry, wasn’t that supposed to guide me in the Dark Side? I didn’t disagree with your actions neither to your authority” he remained quiet. You took a deep breath and asked, looking into his eyes “why do you even care?”

           “I don’t” he replied exiting the room, leaving you alone. A/N:  HI! Thanks for reading!!! If you want to know when the next chapters come out, just ask me to be add on the taglist :))  Sorry for any typos or grammar mistakes, that can happen :\ I looove feedback, so please, share, comment, like, whatever, that keeps me writing, it gives me a lot of motivation. Well, I have nothing much to say except that reader is starting to realize some things about herself and Kylo ;))  oh, also, the whole Fondor scene was inspired by the “Star Wars: Allegiance” Comic book, here you can find the page of what I described Thank you so much once again. Lots of love and see you in the next chapter,

chapter 7 

taglist:  @ohhh-boo-tiful​ @fandomshit6000​ @strangedarkling​ @dark-night-sky-99​ @moonlightsolo​ @shockwavee​ @sallyp-53​ @silverlambcaptain​ @lonesome-loser​ @little-girl-who-dream-too-much​ @delicatesleeper​ @ohmygoditsanthonyedwardstark​ @cynthianokamaria @alex-baebae @antoniamarie1989-blog @nickangel13 @xsar-bearx

[frumfrumfroo]

I don't know wether it would be better to discuss this privately but I don't want to waste your time.After Adam said that Kylo has done nothing wrong,our fandom is full of such takes as resistance is bad,why does he need the light side,it would be detrimental for him to go back to the light side and like what's the purpose of everything then?I'm not a resistance fan either but they're not f villains!And sometimes I think people don't remember that it's wishful thinking.Sorry for bothering you.

People are ridiculous. Adam didn’t mean it that way, if you read the rest of what he said he’s clearly saying Ben the character isn’t thinking about his own redemption or that he needs one. AKA when he reaches a turning point and chooses the right thing, it’s just because he realised it was the right thing- he’s not thinking ‘I must redeem myself’, he just changes his mind. Redemption isn’t some ritual you perform, it doesn’t need to be this ordeal, you just see the truth about your worldview and start making different choices.

He challenged the interviewer to define terms because the interviewer was being a twat and clearly isn’t thinking about the films as a story and these character elements as metaphors. Also, he can’t actually talk about it more directly because anything he could possibly say of substance is a spoiler.

The Rebels/Resistance are the good guys, flat out. The good guys are not perfect but they are ‘the right side’ of the war. Star Wars isn’t morally grey and was never intended to be, it’s black and white, it has absolute right and wrong. Ben isn’t morally grey. He’s traumatised and misguided and thinks the ends justify the means, he thinks the Dark side is inevitable and he can’t escape it. He’s wrong. Morally grey means there is no right answer and it’s arguable whether your actions can be justified, whether what you did was the ‘most ethical’ option and how acceptable the consequences were. It doesn’t mean ‘a little bad’ or ‘not a perfect cinnamon roll’. It means a character who may or may not be justified depending on your point of view.

There is no argument anyone could possibly make to say Ben murdering Han was justifiable or the ‘best thing’ he could have done in the circumstances. There is no argument that he’s right to use the First Order, a military dictatorship, to gain a sense of control over his own life. The point of redemption isn’t to say ‘don’t worry, your crimes weren’t that bad’ or ‘it wasn’t your fault’. It is his fault, he’s a victim but he also has agency and is responsible for his choices. If he didn’t have agency then sure it wouldn’t be his fault, but he also couldn’t be saved because he couldn’t choose differently. Redemption is choosing differently.

It doesn’t and has never meant ‘become a paragon superman who has no flaws and makes no mistakes and never again has a less than saintly thought’. It means that a person who was on the wrong path, hurting others, hurting themselves, and generally being destructive realises they don’t want this and fully internalises that what they have been doing is wrong. It’s the moment of ‘I don’t want to be the source of suffering any more- whatever cause I thought was worth this, it’s not, the ends don’t justify the means’. It doesn’t mean ‘erasing’ their past and becoming a different person- it means healing to your true self and wanting to do your best to choose good in the future.

There is nothing morally grey about murdering your unarmed father who is doing his best to make up for failing you as a child. That is Bad, he did a Bad Thing. Ben was wrong to do that and did it because he has bought into a twisted worldview where both his normal human frailties and his best qualities (compassion, loyalty, lovingkindness) are unforgivable weaknesses. That’s the Dark Side: selfish pursuit of power and gratification at whatever cost. Snoke has convinced him he needs to destroy everything he loves in order to be free, to stop hurting, and he’s doing his best to follow through. He’s doing his best to ignore his own better nature and he’s hurting a lot of people along the way.

He needs to be redeemed from that. This is not an okay way for him to view the world and it’s not a worldview which allows for him to ever have a healthy relationship with anyone. He seeks power because he’s afraid, he feels abandoned and vulnerable, and that makes his fall sympathetic- but that doesn’t make it RIGHT or ~equally valid~. It’s not. It’s wrong, he’s wrong, and he can’t go on like this. It’s killing him exactly because this isn’t who he is, he’s a deeply sensitive, compassionate person who wants to give love, he doesn’t belong on the dark side.

He doesn’t need to suffer further, he’s suffered his whole life, but he needs to make the decision to reclaim his identity and agency.

[thescarletsith]

Part Two of my TRoS rant. Here's two more things that not only don't make sense but are both in the top three of my biggest disappointments in this movie-

3) The Knights of Ren - This is a very soft spot for me so excuse me getting so defensive here... The Knights of Ren, my boys - Trudgen, Kuruk, Cardo, Ap'lek, Ushar and Vicrul. I was so hyped for the KoR, but they were just another waste of screentime. I feel like JJ assumed no one knew anything about them (or JJ just didn't know anything about them), so playing cool music and giving them slow motion intro's to two scenes would be enough fuel for them. That's not even what the issue with them is, though - the Knights would not have attacked Ben. They were loyal to their leaders, the wielder of the Ren, which is the red lightsaber. Kylo, Ben... it didn't matter what his name was. He was their leader and he did nothing to warrent their attack. Palpatine did not have a red lightsaber to show them that he could use the Ren - they had no reason not to fight against Palpatine for targeting their leader. The only thing that justified their attack against Ben was when he pulled out a blue saber - that would make him a traitor. If Ben had to be attacked, let it have been by Palpy's guards or Sith troopers or some of the members of the Hooded Sith Chior. JJ needed a reason to kill them so no one would question what happened with them, like there weren't already 900 things left open to question. Had Ben chose to keep the red saber simply as a weapon and not as a symbol of his darkness, the Knights would have fought with him against Palpatine. How freaking AWESOME would that have been?! Rey had her Resistance friends and Ben could have had his Knights. What a power move. I just wanted to defend the dudes. I know they did horrible things, but Ben had influence over them. He could have taught them to be better and they would have followed his ways. They didn't worship or seek the Force, just their leader. I've probably been influenced by my fanfiction of them but I just gotta say - Trudgen would never attack Ben. It's just sad what JJ did with them.

4) Rey's Fear - I always saw this trilogy as Rey's character developing in ways similar to Anakin in the PT, whereas Kylo's arc has always been a reversed Anakin/Vader. I loved this idea and really, really, really wanted it to happen. So when Dark Rey showed up in that trailer, my soul left my body. And then... well... you saw it, you know. There are so many little moments that beg to be bigger and the potential that Rey and Kylo had for a great story was wasted. It's clear that JJ was trying to make Rey's character just as conflicted as Kylo's in TLJ and it didn't work; her pull to the darkside was not at all justified. Anakin fell to the darkside because of a vision he had of Padme dying - someone whose life was not in his control. He did what he thought would help save her from death. Rey's pull to darkness came from a vision she had of herself on the Sith Throne and this cannot, in any way, be an excuse for her to fear herself. She had no reason to fall prey to darkness, being a Palpatine or not. It's made clear that her fear has been towards herself the whole movie, via her scene with Luke, but if Rey doesn't want to be a Sith, why couldn't she just not be a Sith? She chooses which side she is on. Even Anakin chose to be part of the darkside. But Rey was never given a solid reason to turn, not until the very end when she thought it would save her friends. And her deeds that she viewed as evidence to her inevitable turn were all accidents - the tree falling on BB8, the lightening. None of those things were done intentionally through the darkside. Even stabbing Kylo wasn't done as a means to fall into darkness, it was an impulsive act fed by her anger and the adrenaline of a fight which she immediately corrected. Anakin beheaded Dooku, killed the women and children, and slaughtered Padawan's - all conscious, intentional decisions. The darkside is something you claim at your own will, that's why the Sith seduce people to join it by dealing absolutes - join the darkside or else your whole family will die. It can't just possess you out of nowhere. Rey had nothing to overcome in the movie other than getting over a nightmare she had and did nothing of significance to show she would even be capable of becoming a Sith or be worthy of the throne. Finding out Palpatine is her granddad can be added to this fear, but it is not the cause, as she had it before finding that out. I miss Rey from TLJ. TRoS Rey? I don't know her.

[karen-mp]

Plot holes...

Okey lets start.

A lot of people has pointed out the multiple plot holes that TRoS has like: Finn using the force, palpatine’s return, Poe’s back story (you know it didn’t add something to the story), Sith dagger (WTF), Rey palpatine (her age just don't match), force healing and how it works, If Rey and Ben are one in the force why the past Jedi didn’t talk to both, more important why Anakin didn’t talk with his grandson, Luke’s x-wing (again wtf), the knights of ren did nothing, the multiple star destroyers (Still wtf), Luke And Leia Knowing About Rey’s Parentage (when and why they rejected her son and his nephew) and many more. 

One of the plot holes I will complain about forever is, the decision to bury the light sabers in Tatooine a place that means pain for Anakin (you know the whole sand speech, he was a slave and his mother’s death) Luke (since the first movie he wanted to leave the planet and then his uncles died) and Leia (She was treated as a slave there). It makes no sense the whole sequence.

But today as I was Looking at a meme in a Spanish group, It was something about rey killing her grand father and absorbing her boyfriend’s life. 

And then it got to me, another big plot hole. The family is a big theme in Star Wars. In RotJ Luke understands that Vader/Anakin is his father, Yoda gave him the task to kill Vader and Luke refuse to do it “I can’t kill my own father”, even if Luke don't really know Anakin, he knows there’s a link between them because of his blood. And even some kind of affection. 

Now Rey has the task to kill her grandfather, but she didn’t even hesitate to kill him, like it’s nothing related to her (although this whole trilogy we knew she was looking for her family). Also for me Palpatine is some kind of asexual being, you know someone that doesn't feel nothing at all thats why he is the most evil character (he just care about power), to have sex or rape someone you need to feel some kind of desires ( not affection just desire or lust, but feel something). This character doesn’t understand feelings or an affectionate/blood link between family members, and thats why Vader could defeat him in the end, he did not expect Vader to betray him, the same as what happened to Snoke with Kylo. So it makes no sense to make her a Palpatine at all and then kill him it’s like contradict everything we learned in RotJ about family or about Palpatine’s character. 

Also this confirms even more that they choose to make her a Palpatine just to justify the origin of her powers (because haters). But guess what no one asked to justify Finn’s powers in this new film. Also they Suggest Jannah is somehow related to Lando (cause she has powers because she rejected to be a stormtrooper like finn) but of course she needs to be related to someone to use the force. 

I hope I could make my self clear in this, English is not my first language. 

[dalekofchaos]

My other Sequel trilogy wasted potential posts

Rey

Finn

Poe

Rose

Luke

Han

Leia

Kylo Ren

Hux

Snoke

Ways Captain Phasma could’ve been used better

Phasma’s backstory is revealed to be the child of Imperial Super Commandos and indoctrinated as a child to be an Imperial loyalist and uses her Mandalorian training to train FO Stormtroopers. This would show a darker contrast to Finn’s story. Where Finn kidnapped and forced to becoming a Stormtrooper and ran from his oppressors. Phasma openly embraced the Imperial indoctrination and become a fascist leader.

Have Phasma visibly shown slaughtering villagers on Tuanul

Have Phasma being involved with the meetings with Snoke. Phasma is part of the First Order triumvirate, there is no reason whatsoever why Phasma CANNOT be involved with the scenes with Snoke.

Have Phasma making it her prime duty to bring the traitorous FN-2187 to justice.

Show Phasma leading the strike team on Takodana

Captain Phasma is the one who fights Finn on Takodana, not FN-2199. There is no logical reason why Finn’s fight could not have been against Phasma on Takodana. It would have established Phasma as skilled warrior. It would have developed Phasma as a character, letting her express her fury over the betrayal by one of the top stormtroopers she trained. Phasma wins the fight and as she is about to deliver the killing blow, Han fires Chewie’s Bowcaster at Phasma saving Finn’s life. And if Kylo Ren can take a blast from Chewbaccas bowcaster and live then Phasma sure as shit can too.

Phasma recovers and returns to Starkiller Base and is captured by Finn and Han. However, Phasma does not comply with Finn and Han, she sounds the security alarm/intruder alert. Starkiller Base is put up on High Alert. Finn and Han are shocked and Phasma just simply tells them “good luck” So Han and Finn figure out on disabling the shields themselves. This is the obvious thing she would do. She is a villain and smart, she would not comply or cower, so Finn, Han and Chewie are left by themselves to disabled the shields on their own. This would’ve happened if JJ Abrams cared about making Phasma a character instead of a means to sell toys. This would also make Finn’s defection more personal for Phasma as she was overconfident that they could not succeed and her troops would’ve killed the Resistance scum, so she places the deaths of millions on Finn’s head.

Show scenes with Hux and Phasma conspiring to kill Snoke and Kylo Ren and taking power for themselves

Make Phasma a deranged individual obsessed with capturing and executing Finn. Phasma is basically Captain Ahab and Finn is her great white whale to chase. She is hunting Finn to the ends of the galaxy. Each battle they face she is there ready for him, every time he isn’t there, she kills every Resistance soldier there. Phasma is losing it, Hux is worried, but both Snoke and Kylo believe this will be beneficial in destroying The Resistance. And finally she finds him on The Supremacy. Finn and Phasma go head to head. finally on equal levels and in this moment it happens. Finn’s old comrades come, Finn believes this is the end, but to his surprise they shoot Phasma down. Phasma is knocked down in the ruins of the Star Destroyer. But Phasma makes her escape with Hux.

Her role in TROS. When Kylo Ren became the Supreme Leader, he promoted Phasma to Admiral and Hux to Grand Marshall. All three committing atrocities in the name of The First Order. 

Phasma is shown in FO Admiral uniform in her meetings with Kylo and Hux but puts on her armor in her fights against The Resistance. Because Phasma in a First Order uniform is giving the gays what they want.

Phasma is cracking down hard on her troops. The minute someone shows the slightest bit of hesitation in battle, she immediately executes them and orders anyone loyal to the First Order to do the same. Thus making a Stormtrooper rebellion that much more likely

Finn will inspire a Stormtrooper Rebellion. Phasma will try to suppress it but it will not work. Finn offers Phasma a chance to surrender, but Phasma chooses to go out fighting. So we see an awesome display of Phasma absolutely wasting everyone who has turned on the FO and herself. Until finally we get the final fight between Finn and Phasma. This time Finn is wielding a lightsaber and is well practiced in using it. And as Phasma is at his mercy she will say “you were always scum” Finn will reply. “No, I am a Jedi” as Finn lands the finishing blow

What they chose to do with Captain Phasma

Her backstory is an outsider but an ultimate opportunist and survivalist...which is only added just so they can get away with wasting her character in TFA

Phasma was a rewrite. We don’t know the exact details. But we know that she was created after they were releasing cast photos, because some reports were complaining that there weren’t enough women in the cast photo... and JJ went back and tried to find places he could shoe-horn in a female character. Phasma was born and poor Gwendoline Christie got paraded around to the media to lie about how important her character is. The character is a total afterthought to increase a diversity quota. And it shows. Phasma should have been a villain with equal menace and threat as Kylo Ren and shows what happens when someone willingly accepts and embraces indoctrination. Instead of giving us a great female villain for the Sequel trilogy, they just slap a name on a nobody and they parade her around like a token character who only exists to sell toys, which is beyond insulting.

Just stands there doing nothing

Just walks looking imposing just to do nothing

Has to be told by Kylo Ren to lead a massacre on Tuanul

Is not even acknowledged by Snoke

Is easily coerced into lowering the shields of Starkiller Base. Under the threat of blaster fire....when her armor is MADE for surviving blaster fire.

Is thrown into the trash compactor and makes me wonder why would Gwendoline Christie even agree to star in these movies

Gwendoline Christie is made to look stupid in her interviews justifying Phasma’s existence

Stupidly decides to execute Finn and Rose as a spectacle instead of just shooting Finn and Rose right then and there.

Phasma has a hidden blaster and doesn’t use it against Finn

Has a far better death scene that showcases her character but it is stupidly deleted. I will never understand why this was deleted. Finn calls her out about her betrayal of lowering the shields and when this information is revealed, the Stormtroopers near her look suspicious and it looks as if they are going to turn on her. Phasma like the ultimate survivalist she is kills them with no hesitation. Finn cuts her hand off and blasts her into the abyss, giving Phasma a more deserving and better send off. Seriously, this is way better than their actual confrontation.  What I really like about this scene is its direct connection to The Force Awakens plot point and that it acknowledges Phasma’s survivalist attitude which was introduced into her novel.

Phasma has been wasted in two movies, she had SO MUCH POTENTIAL and every chance they had to showcase that potential, it was pointlessly squandered. 

[sowhotalksfirst]

Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker Spoilers below.

Okay, now that the spoiler warning is out of the way...

No one cares, but I want to get some feelings about this movie off my chest since no one I know has seen it yet, so I have no one to rant to. 

So beside the spoiler warning: I did not love it warning, so if you did, you might not want to continue. 

So there was obviously a lot of issues with characterization and Disney/white men being their usual, racist, homophobic, sexist selves. Which honestly led to a lot of the bad plot decisions (like trying to shoehorn in other girls for Finn and Poe to try and erase FinnPoe and FinRey at the same time). And honestly, the plot was so bad. Like, it was boring, predictable, and just not goo writing. 

Some of this stems from the beginning of this trilogy (I liked a lot of Force Awakens, but it set up the same plot structure as the originals (and also completely fucked up Han and Leia’s characters, but that’s another rant)), and some stems from the cluster fuck that was the second one. But even with the restraints they created for themselves, they could have done so much differently and be more original with things. 

Instead of Palpatine coming back with no real explanation whatsoever (and completely nullifying the point of the original trilogy), and Rey somehow being his granddaughter (like who thought that in any way made sense?), and the whole mythos of the Sith getting fucked up (There’s always two, no more, no less (I know the prequels don’t count for much, but still)), what if it had been Plagueis? 

Like, Palpatine admitted to Anakin that he didn’t learn the power to cheat death from his master before he killed him, but that together they could figure it out. So while having Palpatine come back is dumb, disrespectful, stupid, etc, what if it was Plagueis? He let Palpatine “kill” him, and then sat back and waited, and done whatever. There’s definitely some real interesting potential there. 

Rey should 100% have stayed a “nobody”. Her being a Palpatine make ZERO sense (cause yeah, the emperor has a son, but that’s not important at all at any moment). Like, honestly, it builds in her found family so much more when it’s actually that her parents just sold her for the money and forgot about her. I know people love to try and do the whole “there was actually a reason for X’s parents to leave them permanently traumatized” or whatever, but it made no sense, and it would have made her choosing the light, choosing her found family, so much more meaningful. 

Also, maybe don’t just say fuck-all to the rules of the universe just to make things fit your plot? I know a lot of this was the last jedi’s fault, but jj took it even further, like the whole physical items magically force teleporting places and the whole dumb healing thing. Just, ugh. 

I don’t even want to get into fucking Kylo Ren. I’ll just say that the Knight of Ren ended up looking exactly like the group an angsty, fascist, evil teen with anger problems would create. Even if they were literally pointless.

Finn. My poor, poor Finn. There was SOOOOO much potential they lost because their racist, homophobic asses could let FinnRey or FinnPoe happen. Like they spent so much effort in this movie trying to justify Reylo, while completely ignoring everyone else.

The group of stormtroopers that defected just cause *Force*? Why the hell wouldn’t you make it that be because of the stories of FN2187, the stormtrooper who got out? Why is the downfall of the First Order in the fact that they thought kidnapping and brainwashing children would work to create an obedient army, but in fact it just makes them all want to leave, but just think it’s impossible. And Finn is the one who starts to inspire them all. Of course no one in the resistance knows about it until they meet the group, because the First Order would be desperately trying to keep it under wraps, but the word still spreads: If FN2187 got out, so can we.

Can you imagine Finn facing a whole battalion of stormtroopers (and/Or finding someone to hack into all the first order ships so he’s broadcasting to everyone), and giving and Independence Day type speech, and watching them take off their helmet one by one, and turning on the first order? How incredible and powerful would that have been! The first order should have been brought down by the stormtroopers. 

And also my poor, poor, Poe. Instead of trying to force in a weird smuggler backstory with whatsherface to try and prove “See, he’s straight AND a womaizer!”, Which did not land at all, and was just super awkward, why not, you know, develop his character? Not just have him there to be comic relief? 

UUUUUGGGGGHHHHH! 

I feel like JJ and co just took the most boring, predictable, and bad route to finish off the trilogy, and it showed. I mean this trilogy had flaws from the beginning (again, tfa wasn’t horrible, but it was a rehashed plot, they didn’t really put a ton of thought into it. how did the First Order take over so fast? Why is it still a “resistance” instead of the new republic vs the first order? Why is Kylo Ren the worst fucking character ever?), but then craig just dug a fucking hole, and instead of trying to fill it back in a little, JJ just kept digging. 

Also it’s really annoying and gross to me that the only thing in the general rise of skywalker tag is like all reylo. Like, you have to search Anti Rise of skywalker to get anything not about fucking abusive gross reylo.

[mandaloriangf]

People like to say Reylo is like Elizabeth Bennet and Mr. Darcy, but really it's more like Veronica and J.D. from Heathers. If you ever have a chance I recommend listening to a song from the Heathers musical called "I Say No" because it's a big f you to people like Kylo Ren, specifically the lyrics:

"blame your childhood, blame your dad, blame the life you never had, but hurting people that's your choice my friend. I believe that love will win and hate will earn you nothing in the end"

It really bothers me that people don't realize that Kylo Ren is not evil because he was abused or groomed by snoke. Because being abused does not mean you will grow up to be an abuser, look at Rey and Finn who both had horrific childhoods yet still CHOOSE to be good. And someone might say that Snoke was manipulating Kylo Ren like Palpatine did to Anakin, except NO ONE says Anakin was justified in his actions. Yes Anakin was manipulated by Palpatine but he CHOSE to hurt his wife, yes Kylo Ren was used by Snoke but he CHOSE to fire on a village of innocent people, murder his own father and target Rey and friends to fulfill his own lust for power.

Never is it shown that Snoke is controlling his mind or something to force him into doing these things. He chooses to do them just like how although JD went through horrible things he still killed three of his classmates. And Kylo Ren is a full ass adult and 100% knew his actions were wrong but waited until the last possible second to "attone" for them.

also it’s SO insulting to assume that an evil person must be evil because bad things were done to them when they were younger, like that’s our only possible future.

[erdariel]

Okay, so, first of all, a disclaimer. In this post I'm not gonna debate whether Rise of Skywalker was a good movie or not, or whether this whole sequel trilogy was any good or a complete shitshow. Everyone probably has their own opinions, and I don't really care what they are. And of the point I'm gonna bring up next, I do not mean to say it's good or bad desicion (honestly, in these things, is there even objective good or objective bad? Dunno). It just sort of... caught my eye, and I like rambling so I'm gonna ramble about it.

(Also, please keep in mind, I'm really just a casual watcher of Star Wars, not really a fan, I have no in-depth knowledge of the universe and I don't wanna be involved in the fandom. I just think lightsabers and Rey and princess Leia are cool and R2D2 and BB-8 are cute.)

But yeah, my point is, it's an interesting choice to have Kylo Ren redeemed. I mean, yes. I know why they did it, I understand. He was following in Darth Vader's footsteps, and as Vader's life, so his, would lead into the Light again. They were tempted, both by promises of good things and threats of bad, by evil people being evil and by basically good people accidentally fucking up, they were led into the Dark Side, they didn't set out wanting to conquer the world for themselves. It makes sense. Though of course, after the evils they'd done, the only way to end their tale in Light was the "Redemption equals death" trope, because death is the ultimate sacrifice, so of course it's also the one that will get more things forgiven than anything else. But still, they had to be redeemed, both Vader and Kylo Ren.

Except... I think Kylo Ren's sins would in most stories count as worse. Why? Because of the first memorable villainous act - really, their most villainous act - on screen in the movies. I would argue that for Darth Vader, it's killing Obi-Wan Kenobi. For Kylo Ren, it's killing Han Solo.

I don't think those acts are equal. On the first glance you might think so. It's the villain around whom the story revolves, killing the older character who's acted as some kind of a mentor to the hero or heroes. Okay, Han Solo had been one of the cool young heroes in previous movies, whereas Obi-Wan (until the prequels came, anyway) had not, so there has to be even within the story a slightly different weight given to Han Solo's death, it has to be kinda dealt with, properly. But otherwise, you might think at first that it's the same.

However, the intention's of Obi-Wan vs Han when they go face Vader/Kylo are different. As is the relationship between the villain and the character he kills. The intention, as a rule, must affect how the death is portrayed in the narrative and how it feels to the audience. The relationship does not necessarily havr to affect it, probably, I guess, but it typically does and there's certain clear ways it typically affects things in fiction.

Let's discuss the intention first. Obi-Wan goes to face Darth Vader in battle, to give the young heroes time to get their plan done and escape. He doesn't necessarily intend to kill Vader, but he intends to fight him, and is prepared, expects, actually, to die as a result of it.

Han Solo, on the other hand, goes to face Kylo Ren in order to once more offer the chance to turn to the Light Side, to come back to the right path. He doesn't intend to battle, just to talk. He doesn't seem to be prepared for the possibility that Kylo will kill him, or at least he's not expecting it anymore at the point when he is killed.

Those, just story-wise speaking, aren't equam. At least I wouldn't accept it if a story said that killing someone in a fair fight, when they have come to the fight willingly and fully aware that it may result in their death, was equal to killing someone who didn't have a weapon in their hand, trying to solve things by speaking, by surprise without giving them even the chance to defend themselves. But what about the relationship between Obi-Wan Kenobi and Darth Vader/Han Solo and Kylo Ren?

Obi-Wan Kenobi and Darth Vader used to have a teacher/student kind of relationship. A very close one, true, and there was friendship also in addition to their formal master/padawan relationship.

But Han Solo was Kylo Ren's father. They were close family. And in my experience, western fiction at least (I kinda assume that eastern fiction as well, but I don't have much experience of Japanese fiction and next to none of Chinese, or Korean, or Indian, or, well, you get my point, so I can't know for sure) tends to hold parent/child relationship as especially important, nearly sacred. I'm not saying that's how it should be, and I'm not saying there aren't any exceptions, but I feel that generally speaking, parent/child -relationship is very important. Due to that, still generally speaking, I feel that it tends to be a worse crime in fiction for a child to kill their biological parent (unless the parent is a proper villain, in which case killing them could be a justified act) than for someone to kill their former friend, or their former teacher.

On both of the aforementioned scales, Kylo Ren's act should be considered worse. It should make him less redeemable. Okay, fine, Kylo Ren also killed two bigger villains and saved Rey's life, as opposed to Darth Vader who only killed one bigger villain and saved Luke's life, but I don't think that alone is enough good deeds done to balance out his evil, if even for Vader's deeds, death was still required to redeem him.

It's just an interesting choice, to make Kylo Ren commit crimes that typically in fiction are portrayed as very grave and yet have him redeemed. I'm not saying it's a wrong choice, and I'm not saying it makes the sequel trilogy bad. As I said, I understand the writers' reasons for choosing to redeem him. I have my own opinions on whether it was good or bad, but I tried my best to leave that out of this. I'm entitled to my opinions, all of you are entitled to yours. I just found what I explained above interesting so I thought I'd point it out.

[kalinara]

So I was having thoughts about a possible Kylo Ren redemption arc again, and why the idea really doesn’t work for me.

Now really, I don’t think it’s going to happen anyway.  I think the Last Jedi basically put the kibosh on that concept when it dismantled every bit of Kylo Ren apologia that his fans have ever uttered.  But let’s be honest, sometimes creators make very bad decisions.  So I suppose it’s still possible.

There’s no way that it can be remotely satisfying though.

The thing about a redemption arc that I think a lot of people miss is that a redemption arc serves a point in the overall story.  It’s not just about the character in question.  In a way, it’s not even about that character at all, it’s about the role that character plays in the central narrative.

There are main characters and there are side characters, there are allies and there are villains.  And ultimately, everything that happens happens to serve the main character(s) story.

Now it is true that some villains are main characters of their stories.  Daenerys Targaryen is a good example of this.  We followed Daenerys basically from her origin.  We saw her grow and change, we saw her defeat and her triumph.  We saw her do some amazingly good things and some horribly monstrous ones.  The seeds of her fate were planted early on, but there were also plenty of indications that she could go another way.  Her fall was tragic (if maybe not the best executed) and we were with her every step of the way.

Kylo Ren is no Daenerys Targaryen and he has never been a protagonist.  He’s no Daenerys Targaryen.  He’s not even a Tony Soprano or a Walter White.  By the time we’re introduced to him, he’s already a monster.  He’s already ordering the deaths of an entire village.  He’s in the process of murdering an unarmed man.  And he’s in the process of hunting one of our protagonists, while another is an enslaved follower.

Each one of Kylo Ren’s appearances in both movies serve to push the actual main characters forward.  His massacre causes Finn to rebel.  His torture of Poe leads to their alliance and escape.  His kidnapping of Rey causes her to learn to defend herself instinctively with the force.  His murder of Han fills our heroes with motivating grief and rage.  Even in the Last Jedi, while we have lip service to Kylo Ren’s angst and possible redemption, what we really end up with is a plot that shows Rey her own vulnerability and arrogance.  He exists, basically, so she can be wrong about him.  So that she can be betrayed and return to her people a wiser person.

He is not a protagonist.  He’s not a main character.  He’s a villain to be defeated.  He’s an obstacle to be thwarted.  He exists for their stories.

Darth Vader comes up a lot in these discussions.  Because of course, Darth Vader is the one who was redeemed.  There are a lot of discussions about whether or not Kylo is “better” or “worse” than Vader, when we’re talking about his potential redemption.  And I think that’s a bit of a trap.  It doesn’t really matter if Vader was better or worse than Kylo, because Vader’s redemption was never really about Darth Vader.  it was about Luke Skywalker.

Luke Skywalker started the Original Trilogy with a very clear (wrong) idea about who his father was.  (A pilot, war hero.)  And soon he had very clear ideas about what a Jedi Knight was.  He knew that Darth Vader was the man who killed his father.  He knew what he had to do.  He blew up the Death Star and saved the galaxy.  He went to the ends of the universe on the whim of a ghost to badger his way into training.  He fought the most powerful Force User ever, surprisingly effectively for someone with a few days to a few weeks of training.  But then he was blindsided by the truth.

Luke Skywalker in Return of the Jedi is a very very different man than Luke Skywalker in A New Hope.  He’s older, wiser, sadder and more scarred.  And even though Yoda and Obi-Wan have both told him that he has to defeat his enemy, he knows that as a Jedi, he has to do more than that.  He has to be more than that.  At the pivotal point, he throws away his saber.  He reaches his father.  His faith and love is rewarded.

That’s LUKE’s triumph.  That’s LUKE’s story.  It’s Vader’s too, sure, but it’s important for what it means to Luke.

Rey isn’t Luke.  If anything, she’s in the opposite position.  She grew up with a very different idea of the Jedi.  She knew the myth of Luke Skywalker and she knew that he saved Darth Vader.  And when he rejected her as a student, she decided that she had to prove herself by repeating his act.  She was going to save Kylo Ren.

That was her Cloud City error.  That was her equivalent of Luke trying to kill Vader.  She didn’t want to save Kylo because he was family.  She didn’t want to save Kylo because she loved him.  She didn’t KNOW him yet.  He was the man who tortured her.  She was mislead (by Snoke) into thinking there was something she could reach.  And she really wanted to prove Luke wrong.  It was ego, and she got hit hard for it when he betrayed her all over again.

Like Luke, Rey was wrong.  Like Luke, Rey was injured by it.  And like Luke, she’s going to come out of it as a wiser person.  

If Kylo Ren does have a redemption arc, that would negate all of Rey’s development in the Last Jedi.  Rey was a character for whom everything Force related came easily, too easily by a lot of fan complaints, but that’s why her arc in TLJ was so important.  She had to be wrong.  She had to learn humility.  If she were then proven to be right after all, then she’s got no reason to be a wiser person.

So Rey doesn’t benefit from Kylo Ren’s redemption.  Who might?

Leia doesn’t.  She had a similar story beat in the Force Awakens. She wanted Han to save her son.  He tried and Kylo skewered him.  In the Last Jedi, she’s sadder and wiser and when Luke tells her that he will have to fight Kylo and kill him, she accepts that.  I’m sure she would be overjoyed to see a Kylo Ren reject the Dark Side, but that’s not the same as an ending to her story.  It’s not something that she fought for or earned.  (Perhaps things might have been different if she could have a bigger role in Rise of the Skywalker.  But unfortunately, her story is fundamentally done.)

It doesn’t benefit Finn or Poe either.  Both of them have suffered at the hands of Kylo Ren.  And it would make some sense to have a storyline where they have to move past their anger and hate of him.  Except, well, that’s not something that the movies have cared to address.  When the Last Jedi sidelined both characters, it neatly moved them into plots that had nothing to do with Kylo Ren.  Poe is learning to lead (execution of said plot notwithstanding), Finn is coming to terms with his past.  Kylo’s irrelevant to the first, and just one face out of many abusers for the second.  (It’s more likely that his direct adversary will be Hux, who advocated for the Stormtrooper program that his father started, who hit him and subjugated him directly in TLJ.  It’s a much more personal tie than Kylo.)  They’d need a whole other movie to establish Kylo’s redemption as being significant in some way to either man.

Han’s story doesn’t benefit.  There are those who will claim that he “died for nothing if Kylo isn’t redeemed”.  But narratively speaking, he didn’t “die for nothing”.  He died to show us that Kylo wasn’t Anakin, and that Kylo wasn’t going to choose his grandfather’s fate.

And honestly, even Kylo Ren’s story doesn’t benefit from a redemption arc.  On a narrative level, how would that even work.  “Okay, so, I know Kylo has been offered redemption at least three times now and he responded by murdering Lor San Tekka, Han Solo, and trying to murder Rey.  The Prequels took the pre-established ending of Return of the Jedi and built a story for Anakin around it.  We learned that fundamentally, love and family were at the core of Anakin’s motivation.  He fell because of love and he let himself be saved because of love.

But Kylo Ren is OFFERED that kind of love.  Han Solo, weeping and unarmed, reaches out to his son only to be skewered.  He REJECTS that love.  Familial love is not enough.

Rey, a woman that he’s clearly attracted to, makes the same offer.  No strings attached.  No familial baggage to be an excuse.  She reaches out to him, just like every single Reylo-is-canon sort insisted that she should do.  And he REJECTS her too.  Romantic love is not enough.

There are a lot of debates about whether or not Snoke was abusive, and to what extent he may have influenced Kylo.  And certainly the idea of Kylo teaming up with Rey and company to defeat his abuser is an attractive one to a lot of people.  Except, well, that actually happens.  He and Rey DID team up.  They DID kill Snoke.  And Kylo Ren ordered his army to stand down, killed Hux when he tried to stop him, and went home peacefully.  Wait no, sorry, he took command and doubled down his efforts to murder every last member of the Resistance.

So that means for a redemption arc to work, the writers will have to give us something that is more important to Kylo than family, romantic love, or being free from an abuser to finally reach him and move him off of the path he’s on.  Murdering innocent people wasn’t enough, enslaving millions of children wasn’t enough, destroying FIVE PLANETS wasn’t enough.

This isn’t even an Adalind from Grimm sort of situation where her self interest can be used to justify hanging around with the good guys enough to appreciate that they, unlike her previous allies, won’t hang her out to dry.  Kylo Ren has literally nothing to plausibly make him want to be a better person.

I can’t say whether Lucasfilms will try to pull off a Kylo Ren redemption arc in the eleventh hour, but I can say that they shouldn’t.  

[aahsoka]

anyways the crux of the problem a lot of us (and just specifically me) have with r*ylo is:

they tend to take Finn’s existing personality traits and plot arcs and give them to Kylo Ren; sometimes erasing Finn as a character entirely, which is rather racist, even if they claim to have no ill intent (you can be unintentionally racist yknow that’s what most racism is). I suspect it’s because Finn has real tangible chemistry with Rey but I’ll avoid getting into that.

romanticizing abuse & non consensual actions. Saying him invading her mind was romantic, or the bridal carry when he abducted her, for example; did y’all ever think it was romantic when Voldemort got inside Harry Potter’s mind? No, because they weren’t a woman and a man you could project heterosexual fantasies on to.

crying that they’re being harassed by people who were mostly just making jokes about not liking the ship and specifically tagging them with the anti tag and censoring the ship and/or character names so they could be easily filtered or wouldn’t show up in the tags at all. Yea harassing people for ships isn’t good, but maybe in general we should act less like we’re more righteous solely because people are angry at us. That’s not how it works. Especially when some people use it as a defense to creating harmful content (like romanticized rape fiction).

that our first Star Wars female Main Jedi protagonist would end up with a character who is both a murderer and an active player in a fascist government. Important to note that he is also a grown man, who is very capable of making informed decisions, and therefore entirely culpable for all of his actions. That she would choose someone like that, who hurt her friends, herself, killed people she cared for, has used textbook abusive manipulative tactics to get her on his side, is scary and not a good romantic story. One movie does not give enough time for him to legitimately redeem himself enough for a romance between them to be appropriate. (I’d say maybe enough for him to be awkwardly on the good side a la the Malfoys at the end of Harry Potter or like a criminal who names names for a more lenient sentence but that’s it).

“reverse anidala” drives me crazy as someone who really enjoys the anidala tragic love story (it’s a little Romeo & Juliet Shakespearean tragedy where you’re inevitably heading towards a bad ending and there’s nothing you can do to escape it, really). When Anakin and Padmé are together, it’s specifically the parts of the saga where Anakin is a hero; where he is trying his best to be a good person and do the right thing. Padmé falls in love with him because he’s genuine, heroic, and a little bit reckless. Once he goes off the deepend; killing children & his friends, actually actively supporting fascism; she’s 100% not on board, quote “you’re breaking my heart”. She was in love with someone & had to leave when they started to hurt others and herself. Even maybe she shouldn’t have gotten on board with it when he killed an entire village of sand people, (but granted, they abducted his mother & he was obviously remorseful immediately afterwards + he’s basically a teenage soldier at this point; not saying it’s not bad, just that this is markedly different from all the times Kylo Ren has committed murder) but I also think the way the anidala love story concludes drives home that their relationship probably wasn’t the best idea anyways. Another popular comparison is Pride & Prejudice. Mr. Darcy may have been rude to Elizabeth and may have made mistakes that affected her family, but none of the things he did were as serious as Literal Murder or Abduction. Once he realized how he had misjudged the situation he immediately apologized and made big strides to make up for his mistakes. Elizabeth comes to realize she also misjudged him, that he was only trying to look out for those he loved just as she was looking out for the people she cared about. I have no idea how in the world that is anything like the relationship Kylo Ren and Rey have except for that it’s two people who are at odds with each other, at least in the beginning. And Mr. Darcy is kind of broody I guess and usually has long dark hair. The thing with Kylo Ren is that he has already treated Rey and her friends poorly and that’s not something that can be forgiven easily, or someone a person should be in a relationship with. He’s also not a character who has friends or loved ones that he cares for that would make him sympathetic, unlike Mr. Darcy or Anakin. Anakin killed for the people he loved, it was terrible and bad! But we understood what got him there. We understand those intentions and how they can go awry if you choose to believe the end justifies the means. Darcy is a similar reflection of those intentions, except that his mistakes aren’t near as monstrous & easily forgiven. Kylo Ren is motivated by what? Entitlement? A slightly unstable family dynamic? I know Luke ‘almost killed him’ but he had already begun exploring the dark side at that point so what got him there? Not a desire to protect his loved ones that’s for sure. I’m just very personally bothered by these parallels, as they are unequal, and they undermine what I think is good about these other stories.

that they so actively push for it to be canon. You do realize you can have just as much fun with a non canon ship as a canon one. You don’t need to see it realized on screen to have fun with your villain and hero fall in love stories. We all know Rey is just your self insert so you can have romantic trysts with Kylo Ren because you think Adam Driver or sith dudes are hot or w/e; it might be better to just accept and acknowledge that, rather than stand on your soap box telling everyone it’s the best.

Anyways, in conclusion, I don’t like this ship. I’d say it’s fine for you to indulge in it as a guilty pleasure (like I’m a sucker for vaderdala, it’s not like that’s “morally superior”). But I think the entirety of that group of people who ship it really need to consider the ramifications of what they write and what they romanticize and who they’re erasing from the narrative (coughFinncough) and what kind of message it would actually send if it was truly canon.

I also apologize for mentioning Harry Potter so much I have no idea what that was the material I drew parallels to; there are so many other books and shows and movies I’ve interacted with far more recently than Harry Potter. Maybe it’s because it’s a widely known piece of literature so it’s easier for others to see the comparisons I’m making? Hopefully.

And I won’t interact with this ship on any level except to make jokes at its expense because it fills me with an intense rage that stems from all of these many issues that I take from it. Even if it’s just someone innocuously enjoying it as a crack ship who doesn’t romanticize the bad things about it. It’s been ruined for me forever by the vocal fandom surrounding it.