#and even the ones who don't probably at least like olivia or ewan as actors enough to care about how this affects THEIR characters

[navree]

The show failed to make care about Helaena or her children and i doubt if the general audience know her name. B&C will hit hard just because how gruesome it will be (if the writers didn't changed it) but i am afraid there will be no emotional impact.

I agree that the show's somewhat failed to develop Helaena, especially when compared to her brothers, and there's a lot of reasons for that (a desire to get diversity points by making her neurodivergent without actually wanting to put in too much effort in how to sensitively write a character they've coded as autistic in a world where people barely understand autism is a thing, the tendency that exists where male characters are prioritized for development and characterization over female characters, the disordered writers' room that season one clearly had). But I don't think that precludes any kind of investment in Blood and Cheese. There's likely going to be an emotional impact just because:

a) it's a child being murdered, and two other children being terrorized, that's going to hit people's emotions no matter what because it's just sad

b) people do know Helaena and she's been in, at least, enough shots for people to at least understand who she is and how she fits into the family and one of those scenes at least was p cute (the toast scene) and watching her suffer will be hard especially if Phia plays it right

c) like you said, B&C is gruesome, and that'll likely leave people with some emotions given not just the murder but the psychological torture and

d) there's going to be an emotional impact not just for Helaena, but also for other characters.

For one, Blood and Cheese also involves Alicent, and specifically Alicent being brutalized (not only is she used to lure and has to subsequently watch what happens to her daughter and grandchildren, but she is also physically attacked, since they apprehended, bound, and gagged her and that's not happening without a fight), and Alicent is a very popular character in spite of what Twitter says and we've been following her since the pilot.

For two, a lot of the Blood and Cheese aftermath in the show is going to focus on Aemond. It is very specifically Aemond's actions at Storm's End that lead to Blood and Cheese, and the show has made it so that it was a complete accident, an unintended consequence Aemond not only failed to foresee but also actively tried to prevent. The second to last shot of the show thus far is a focus on Aemond's face and his dawning horror and regret at what he's done. And then, because of Aemond's mistake, his sister and his mother and his brother and his niece and his nephews are all going to suffer in one of the worst actions GRRM has ever written about. Aemond, who the writers now know is a fan favorite thanks to Ewan's portrayal, is going to be getting a lot of focus, and his own periphery grief and his immense guilt and his feelings of responsibility over what happened (and if the writers are smart and follow this blog to read my theories, the way this affects his relationship with Aegon and his subsequent actions in the war) are likely going to be an immense part of his character arc for that scene. I mean, there's a reason why when I wrote my own Blood and Cheese fic, half of it was from Aemond's perspective, a huge part of the emotional impact is going to come from Aemond's reaction and his subsequent coming to terms with the fact that he made a mistake and is directly responsible for irreparable harm coming to the people he loves most as a result.

They do need to develop Helaena a lot more than they have, and I fervently hope there's at least a single episode of the calm before the storm (I'd hope they make 2x01 all about the immediate aftermath and Blood and Cheese is a 2x02 focused thing). But she is recognizable and liked enough on her own for it to have some impact, and even then, it's also going to impact characters that a lot more people are heavily more emotionally invested in, enough that it'll still pack a punch (also given that he's a bit more of a nichely enjoyed character I didn't mention Aegon, but he's got his lil fanbase and watching him grieve over what's happened to his family is also going to be emotional for people who like him even if they don't much care for Helaena).

[ladymorghul]

"the first one is such a bad taste comment and instant sideeye, especially considering that even actors must have heard about the gross ass hate that tg actors, esp olivia and emily, have gotten" I've been thinking the same thing, I doubt Steve didn't see at least some of the unhinged comments since he is on social media, and there are posts with thousands of likes insulting TG actors' looks and calling them inbred looking, there is absolutely no need to encourage these people even jokingly. Emma was the only one from TB who gave a neutral answer and didn't insult anyone.

Ewan probably cares less about the possibility of getting hate because he is not on social media, and I think he and Matt were asked to play into the Aemond/Daemon rivalry to hype up their future fight.

You're right that this fandom is incredibly toxic and not worth it, but the fact that HBO is trying to appeal to the worst types of fans is really disappointing. This marketing only makes me less excited for the season and crushes my last hopes for a more balanced storytelling. These comments about the Greens hating each other and the Blacks being a perfect family really don't inspire my interest. The promo campaign is confusing because HBO recently was like "there are two sides to every story" and now it's basically good guys vs bad guys who barely get any time in the promo.

i mean, yeah, totally agree. which is why i'm so meh about the whole thing and don't feel the vibe any longer. i mean clearly not even the tg actors seem excited for their side's story so why should anyone else? the only people eating good are aemond stans because ewan has always promoted aemond and the greens in an excited way. the rest are just not into it. even fabien who has said team green at one point... his 'promo' was underwhelming and fans took it to mean that he's not into it. regardless of whether he is or not, it does matter how you come across.

so you know for me the issue is that there's such a discrepency between the 'sides' in promo, behaviour, writing, etc that it feels like the show itself is saying one side is the villains and one is the heroes, which would have been fine if they had been honest about it from the beginning.

and even with people like daemon, the show and the portrayal and what the audience took from it is that you can commit any crime whatsoever, and abuse women, but if you 'look cool' doing it then you're automatically cool and not grouped with other women abusers.

so y know i'm kind over it? i'm kinda... well, just not into it. feels like ryan made a salad from this story and most of his storytelling is shallow.

[thephantomcasebook]

Okay dude, don’t be weird. I like most of your takes, but nobody was talking about little girls having sex, they were talking about two pre-teens/teens sharing an innocent kiss, something that is, like, a regular occurrence on the Disney channel, or it was back in my day. I mean, unless I’m mistaken and you aren’t referring to Olivia Cooke’s headcanon but something else that was said that I don’t know about. But if I am not mistaken, the way you keep exaggerating like that honestly makes you seem like more of a creep than Cooke or Hess, so like maybe tone it down? Obviously the headcanon is dumb, but in no way did either of them imply anything gross or creepy. YOU are the one bringing up things that are gross and creepy for no reason, and it is legitimately discomforting to me. I know you’re probably just exaggerating for humor, and again, I say all this not to be a hater, but as someone who enjoys your blog and would like to continue enjoying it. But if I keep having to hear those nasty exaggerations, I’m going to have to dip. Obviously, you don’t have to listen to me or care what I think or if I continue to follow, but I hope you take this as honest feedback and at least give it some thought

Hmmm ...

No.

Look, I appreciate you trying to bring up another prospective. And I'm amenable to self-reflection. You know, maybe I was coming down a bit too hard on Cooke - even though, I think someone needs to hit back at bad ideas as hard as possible so it doesn't germinate from a soft touch. But you know, I'm self aware enough to sit there, pause and go, 'You know, they're probably right.'

But, I'm sorry this is not where I back down. Cause, the 'innocent kiss' head canon stuff was what Cooke said. But Hess didn't say that. You are conflating two different things.

Look, you might be younger than me, you might be older than me. But in these situations, when people are actively trying to hijack a fandom or a franchise to Trojan Horse their weird and bullshit agenda stuff for awards, you just don't leave anything to doubt.

You might think it hard, you might even think it creepy - though you haven't made any semblance of an argument for the use of that word. But I do something called, matching intensity, which is that I come at people with the same level that people come at me, right?

I have shown Cooke, D'Arcy, and Hess, the same level of respect that they have shown the fans and the material. If you are uncomfortable with the level of respect - or lack of - I am showing to these people, you might want to ask yourself why they are showing such a lack of respect toward people.

Cooke, D'Arcy, and certainly Hess, in particular, have been incredibly disrespectful and vitriolic to Men, male fans, and people of both sexes of a different political or ideological bent then them. I, for one, do not subscribe to the theory that because someone dresses up and plays pretend in front of a camera that they are deemed untouchable or so high above that their behavior is negligible to civil standards. I guarantee you, that you would not feel the same way about a male actor going about saying misogynistic things about women and or female fans in such a blatant and unrepentant way.

And as long as anyone - man or woman - insists on behaving in such a immature and uncivilized manner, especially when it concerns things I am a fan of and pay out of pocket for as a customer, I will treat them with same courtesy that they have shown me.

To Quote "Dune"

"I respect the personal dignity of any man who respects mine."

The reason I don't criticize anyone else in the cast, is because, only Cooke and Hess - and D'Arcy - are the ones running their mouth. If Ewan Mitchell or Tom Glynn Carney, were out there saying fucked up shit, I'd be right at them, and I'd fight all their girlies too on principle. But they're not, so I don't. I will never apologize for my opinions and my open hostility toward Sapochnik, cause, I assure you his hatred for us was just as deep and pervasive.

I'm sorry, Nonny, but I will not be spit upon and I won't watch cruel and immature little girls drag things I care about through the mud, just because you feel uncomfortable with uncompromising language. Listen, I got 100 asks - 100! - and I will answer them in the way I see fit.

You can either live with that ...

Or you can't.