#and ms marvel did hit some very important topics

[riddlemearose]

Someone's probably already made this but screw it.

I would actually love a crossover ep featuring Kamala and Matt. I reckon that would be peak comedy.

[nolabballgirl]

Hey. This isn’t a defence of it or a bad faith question, more just curiosity about good/bad representation as a whole: portraying Arab characters as thieves, cheats is obviously bad, but should they go with the ‘he stole because his family are poor’ plot like you’ve theorized, would that still be bad rep? On one hand, I’m sure poor Arab families in France exist and that there’s a Arab French teenager who, like many children around the world have done, has stolen things to survive. That obviously doesn’t make anyone a bad person, but I can see that then being bad rep if it was portrayed onscreen, even if their reasons for stealing are out of necessity. Because surely even if it’s for an understandable reason and portrayed as empathetic, you’re still showing Arab people as thieves etc? So I guess I’m wondering (not about this remake who will surely fuck this up, but about media in general), do you think it’s ever possible to portray minority groups in a way where they’re not bland, clinical, 100% perfect characters without it still perpetuating harmful stereotypes? Or would would this nuanced but potentially problematic rep (eg: an Arab teen stealing so his family doesn’t starve), have to exist within a whole show about people of that minority, written by that minority (eg: a show about Arab teens with an Arab cast and Arab writers), to balance the portrayals out by showing, for example, Arab teens who aren’t stealing. Because I’m wondering if the remakes are even good mediums to explore these issues, since there’s usually only 1-2 people of the same identity (black, gay, Arab etc) in a gen/group, meaning the burden of representing that identity falls to them and the contrast between these 1-2 characters. Like if 1 of your 2 gay men characters is a predator, that’s harmful and plays into old bad stereotypes, but if your whole show is about gay men (and written by them), I can see it being less harmful since there’d be more positive rep to balance it out. I hope this ask makes sense, I always enjoy hearing your thoughts 😅

hi, Anon! i really enjoy digging into asks like yours because you’ve raised so many interesting and complicated points about ultimately what are such existential questions: what makes up “good” and “bad” representation? and whether these remakes are the right medium to explore these types of questions? it’s obviously a very subjective set of questions, but to me, i think it’s absolutely possible to tell interesting, complex stories about POC without engaging in harmful tropes, period. but if a piece of art does hit upon tropes, that doesn’t mean it automatically gets discounted altogether. rather, i look to: (1) balance with the storyline itself; (2) the storyline in context with media depictions as a whole within a country/region; and (3) how that all plays into the mind of the average viewer. as expected, this gets long! 😅

let’s take the scenario if bilal did indeed steal but did it for noble reasons (e.g., to feed his starving family). how would i try to break this down?

you’re right in the sense that at the end of the day, he’s still a thief. so i look to balance: was it a one time thing? is this something he routinely does? what are bilal’s other qualities? how does the show portray other arabs, even if it’s one or two others? is bilal portrayed sympathetically, suavely, or heroically (think Omar Sy in Lupin)? and what’s the ultimate take away message?

it’s very hard for me to separate a depiction of a character without placing it in the context of other media. so in france, how are arabs generally depicted in other tv shows or films, in the news, etc.? like if france released 5 shows this year with arab mains, were they all connected to crime in some way? in the u.s., for example, until only recently, you’d be hard pressed to find a muslim character who wasn’t a terrorist/criminal, undercover cia/fbi agent trying to kill the terrorist, or the beleaguered spouse of a terrorist. it’s too much at this point without treading any new ground.

and how is the average french viewer reacting to bilal’s story? on the one hand, it’s important to have a diverse set of mains, just so that viewers get used to seeing the world through a different set of eyes. but are viewers sympathetic towards bilal? are they able to divorce the action of him stealing from his identity? or are these tropes being reinforced?

and depending on how the answers to these questions play out, it gives me a sense of how i ultimately place a show in context of good or bad representation.

but it’s also totally possible to have POC characters that are not bland or 100% perfect without them still perpetuating harmful stereotypes. more to that point, think about your favorite tv shows of all time. now substitute the main character in them for a bilal or a redouane. how would that affect the dynamic? i think some of my favorite shows of all time (these jump to mind at the moment: halt and catch fire; the good wife; friday night lights) have mains who are messy and complicated and nuanced. and if you subbed in a POC as one of the mains and gave them a similar treatment, i think it totally would make an interesting character study and elevate the show without perpetuating harmful stereotypes. one of my fav actors, riz ahmed, has some good points on this topic. we’re not looking for angels, but we’re also sick of devils. let’s explore this middle ground.

and whether remakes are the appropriate avenues to dive into these topics depends on the intentions of the writers and showrunners. i don’t think you need an all-minority cast necessarily to still tell an interesting, nuanced story that avoids perpetuating tropes. (i think to the upcoming ms. marvel adaptation where we will have a muslim WOC superhero main, but she’s still a teenager who often makes dumb decisions and exists in the diverse community of jersey city). but it’s more so a recognition of tropes and this balance we talked about. taking your example, if i only have 1-2 gay characters in my remake, then i’ll avoid the predator trope altogether as it tips the scales too negatively, but i can still have my gay characters be messy or make bad decisions or be jerks at times, you know? we’re not sanitizing these characters, but we’re just fleshing them out as real people. and that’s what i generally like about the sanas, taken by themselves, they have their strengths and flaws; they can be messy; but they can be great friends as well.  

anyway, i love having these types of discussions, so thank you for this ask! 😊

[hellzyeahthewebwieldingavenger]

Marvel Team-Up Volume 4 #2 Thoughts

Things get a little better and a little worse this issue

 With the shakey set up out of the way Eve Ewing gets to dive into what she and fans were actually looking forward to from this arc, Freaky Friday with Spidey and Ms. Marvel.

 The results are again...mixed.

 The art work is again nice and the typical Freaky Friday tropes played with in the story, whilst modest and not explored nearly as much as they could be, are touched upon enough to illicit a laugh or two.

The best moment is probably seeing Peter in Kamala’s body appreciate seeing Kamala in his body have fun with his powers. The subtext is it gives him some perspective on how cool it is to be Spider-Man really.

Another area the book succeeded in was deciding to dedicate the whole issue to the 2 protagonists living through one another’s lives as opposed to having other stuff distract from that.

The positives kind of end there though.

Like last issue Ewing pulls the dirty trick of introducing us to some important information about Spider-Man’s life that’s never (to my recollection) been mentioned before.

As bad as it was to say Peter had an old friend we’d never heard of last issue, this issue establishes that he took precautions to never again have his body swapped like in Superior Spider-Man.

There are a few issues with this.

First of all, whilst it’s nice and would be in character for Peter to do that, it makes him look foolish and irresponsible in the main titles for seemingly never doing that. indeed I can all but guarantee this piece of information will be forgotten or ignored in the main titles if anything akin to a body swap occurred again. Prior to this issue we presumed Peter didn’t take precautions but also that he didn’t do that because there was no way for him to do so.

Second of all, it’s really, really disingenuous for something as important as that to have just happened off panel without a mention until now and a mention in a title that is neither a Spider-Man centric title and isn’t even edited by the Spidey office.

Third of all it doesn’t even make sense. Doc Ock never actually swapped his and Peter’s minds literally. He created copies of their minds, uploaded his into Peter’s body and vice versa. The implication from this story seems to be that in fact Peter and Kamala are literally having their consciousnesses transferred back and forth.

Speaking of which, maybe issue #3 will address this but the fact that Peter and Kamala are swapping back and forth seems...contrived; as does Kamala’s neighbours happening to be away for awhile and happening to give her a key.

It seems like a conceit of the story invented just so that Peter wouldn’t have to pretend to be Kamala in front of her parents.

On the one hand that robs us of a lot of potential comedy and shenanigans. On the other the idea that Kamala’s family will be able to deduce something is seriously wrong is very likely and needs to be addressed.

However rather than go that contrived route I don’t see why Ewing didn’t just cut out the middle man and either have the swap happen on the weekend when Kamala could more reasonably not have to spend a night at home or, if she really wanted to have Peter go back to school, have the swap happen after Kamala leaves home at the start of the day but before she gets to school.

Off the top of my head you could have it be that the explosion doesn’t immediately swap them but that they wake up or en route to school/work get hit with the swap. Or have Dr. Rosario’s lecture occur in Jersey thus giving Peter a reason to be there and then Peter as Kamala has to get back to school for the rest of the day.

Putting all this aside perhaps the biggest sin of the story is the fact that it does the Freaky Friday trope but doesn’t really explore much of the obvious issues in this specific scenario.

Typically the Freaky Friday trope occurs between people of the same genders, and somewhat less typically of the same race.

Here the focus is upon the different AGES of Peter compared to Kamala.

Okay sure that’s a dynamic in play in this scenario, but surely Peter reliving High school or Kamala being thrust into the adult world of bills and job interviews is waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay less significant than Kamala reacting to how different it is being a white man with a penis or Peter reacting to how different it is being a Pakistani, Muslim girl with breasts and a vagina.

I’m not saying the story should be graphic about this but it’s really disingenuous and unrealistic to set up this scenario and then pretend either of these characters would be more focussed upon being younger/older than being different genders, races and how they get treated differently as a result.

I’m not asking for a sermon about racism, sexism, privilege etc, but just...I’m just asking the story to be believable and realistic. Realistically those issues would not just pop up but be much bigger concerns.

They don’t even try to raise the question of consent in this scenario. We focus more upon secret identities than even giving a throwaway line about Peter and Kamala consenting to let one another use their bodies to change clothes or go to the bathroom. That just happens and we don’t mention it.

Again, this doesn’t have to be graphic, it can even be funny without being crude, but like...just talk about it. Even that Ultimate Spider-Man arc with Wolverine and Spidey swapping bodies kind of touched on these topics a little and that was over 15 years ago.

The most we get is Peter noticing he got one racist comment and having a period, but it’s just glossed over a scene later. Peter meanwhile doesn’t get to teach Kamala about the perils of adult life, which is weird because at face value this is both their stories so you’d think Ewing would keep things ‘even’ in that way. More significantly really this is Kamala’s book but it leans towards Peter learning about being a girl of colour?????* Shouldn’t the focus be more on Kamala in this regard?**

What’s also weird is that the book tries and fails to give Kamala a taste of what being a man is like by painting the perils of shaving as the closest male equivalent to a period.

Let’s put a side a debate about whether that’s true, or indeed how the comparison is cliché.

My bigger question is...Kamala just...knows how to shave?

My even bigger question is...Kamala shaves incorrectly and it causes her to bleed...on a time delay?

Huh?

Yeah in the issue she starts bleeding during an interview because she cut herself shaving but that’s not how that works.

Yeah you can bleed AGAIN later if you cut yourself shaving but it’s written to imply she didn’t start bleeding until that moment when...surely she would’ve been bleeding beforehand when she initially cut herself.

Additionally there is this odd panel where Kamala is admiring Peter’s muscles in a mirror and being upbeat about being an adult...Maybe I’m being dense but how does that translate. I’ve got huge manly biceps...being an adult is awesome. What? It’s a twin of another panel on the same page where Peter as Kamala starts skipping for joy because...he’s young? And this is referred to as ‘the thing’?

Is that a thing?

Do teenagers typically skip for joy to school or anywhere for that matter?

I think the implication is that he’s relishing youthful energy as in an earlier panel he’s happy his knees aren’t aching. But that still doesn’t add up. As Spider-Man his powers afford him a lot of energy and that includes immense leaping abilities. Skipping isn’t something he couldn’t do or that would hurt him. it doesn’t even jive in the issue as Kamala never complains about aches and pains an clearly relishes her newfound acrobatic prowess.

Oh and on this same double page spread Kamala as Peter buys five scratchcards. What the Hell Kamala? When did Peter give you permission to waste his obviously limited funds? Like on the same two pages she took notice of his bills and his job interview.

There is also this weird characterization thing whenever Peter is in Kamala’s body where he suddenly becomes less like Spider-Man and more ‘the intellectual who speaks in a more high brow way but it’s funny because his appearance is at odds with that’. Like he puts his thumb on his chin as he thinks about and postulates about science stuff and talks about the nectar of the Gods when applying lip gloss. What gives?

Finally there is a bit of mischaracterization regarding one another’s secret identities.

Kamala in Spider-Man’s body immediately unmasks in spite of Peter’s protests, then he does the same against her protests to keep things fair.

Now not to be too harsh on Ewing in this scenario inevitably Kamala and Peter would need to unmask one another. In this sense you can cut Peter a little slack as he probably knows it’s going to be next to impossible to go about in Kamala’s body without seeing her real face.

But Kamala seems...rather out of character here. No expert on her character but given how she has her own secret identity would she really so cavalierly violate someone else’s...when they are asking her not to...and then she employs a double standard and asks them not to violate her own identity?

I really don’t buy this at all.

Again you could argue Peter’s actions were a little more justified but at face value it seems he was just being petty.

All in all...I guess this is worth a read for a few laughs and if you just wanna see some of the wackiness with this kind of scenario but over all it has a lot of problems.

P.S. Another issue with this...er...issue, as well as the last one was Ewing for some reason having dialogue that plainly should be though captions just spoken out loud. Why?

*Also is it just me or is it really weird that from now on its canon that Spider-Man knows what a period feels like and loves the taste of cotton candy flavoured lip gloss? If nothing else that’s gotta be something that will be on Spidey listicals in the future right?

**And yet in other ways the focus is more on Kamala, everything happens in Jersey City, it’s rooted in her status quo and supporting cast. Which again is a problem in one sense since this is at face value both her and Peter’s story but more realistically it’s her story, this is her secondary title.

[thefandomplague]

Caged (7)

Synopsis: What happens when Loki meets someone who actually calls him on his bullshit instead of running and hiding? Word Count : 1084 A/N: Have a good weekend my precious humans. Part 8 is already half way written by the way. I have Bronchitis so got some time to write.

Part One - Part Two - Part Three - Part Four - Part Five - Part Six

Thor stared off out the window as he listened to Tony drone on and on about something stupid until suddenly Tony was waving a hand in front of his face.

“ You ok there big fella? ”

“ Yes… sorry Tony. My mind is… else where.”

“ Hm… where exactly? ”

Tony asked deviously as he continued with his work.

“ Lady Y/N actually. I-”

“ I thought we all agreed I called dibs on that? ”

Thor simply raised a brow at Tony.

“ She’s smart and beautiful-”

“ That’s all very well Tony… but have you actually spent time with her? ”

“ Not exactly… she has only been here a week…. and she also keeps blowing me off to do her job.”

Thor smiled to himself, shaking his head at Tony’s silly notions.

“ Tony, I feel before you try to engage in sexual intercourse with her perhaps you should try spending time with her? “

“ Sexual Intercourse… what are we 90 ? “

Thor rolled his eyes and stood up.

“ As riveting as this conversation is Stark I must go and pay Lady Y/N a visit and check my brother is not being a nuisance.. ”

“ Remember I call dibs on that though. ”

With that Thor left Tony and made his way down the corridors until he was knocking at your door. There was no answer so he made his way across to check in on Loki. He knocked once but decided not to chance Loki locking him out and so he just walked in.

Loki was sitting on his bed reading a book as usual but he had no cuffs and Y/N was not present which was beyond odd to Thor. Loki’s head snapped up.

“ What is it with people in this building and walking in without a single bit of announcement? ”

“ Where is Lady Y/N? ”

“ Lovely to see you too brother. Well she is clearly not here so would you like to leave me alone now? ”

“ Loki, where is she? You cannot be un-cuffed without supervision! ”

Loki rolled his eyes.

“ Brother, I don’t know where she has gone to, she will be back shortly I am sure, why is it she can trust me yet you cannot? ”

“ Because I actually know you Loki. She does not. I will stay here until she returns- ”

“ Oh for Odin’s sake Thor. Then you may wait outside my room you ridiculous clodhopper.”

Thor looked at Loki confused before asking.

“ What is a-”

“ You have been on this mundane midgardian rock for years and felt it wasn’t important to learn something as simple as their language or simple terminology? ”

“ I have been busy in case you have failed to notice. ”

“ Well instead of endlessly wasting my time, how about you go and look it up instead of irritating me…hm? ”

Thor sighed heavily.

“ I will be right back. ”

Thor rolled his eyes and walked out.

Soon as you and Loki heard the second door close, meaning he had left the vicinity you both burst out laughing and Loki let his illusion drop.

“ Well that was close. ”

You breathed out as you neatened up your appearance again. Slightly flushed at nearly getting caught.

“ Well I guess I better get out there before we both get in trouble.“

You laughed and got up to leave. Just then Loki grabbed your wrist and pulled you against him. He stared down at your lips for a second before he lunged his face forward and his lips crashed against yours. His hands letting go of your wrists only to pull you closer by your waist, you both slowly walked backwards as he pushed you against the door roughly. You heard the door outside open again. You pulled back slowly not wanting it to end. Just as you pulled away from one another Thor and Vision walked in.

” Ah there you are Lady Y/N! “

” Sorry I was just out on a phone call. Loki said you were looking for me? “

” It was just in regards to him being without cuffs while you are not watching him. “

” Ah well- “

” Never mind that for now. We should be taking him to interrogation, he is running late. “

Vision pushed him.

” Right, I will just-“

” No… we will take him. You job is to watch him. We deal with interrogations and transportation.“

You looked at them suspiciously but nodded as they cuffed Loki and started leading him away. You watched him go as he gave you a quick wink before he disappeared around the corner with the two.

You were making yourself some coffee in the kitchen, trying to wrap your mind around what had just happened… what you had let just happen, when Natasha came in and sat down at the kitchen table behind you.

” How goes the babysitting Y/L/N? “

You jumped at the sudden intrusion of your thoughts. You recovered with a forced light chuckle.

” He’s really not all that bad you know. “

Nat scrunched up her nose at your smiling demeanor.

” Jeez Y/L/N if I didn’t know any better I would say you had feelings for the guy. “

“ What!? “

“ Everyone else can’t stand him for more then a day… hmm come to think of it maybe he even likes you. “

” Ha… yea right. How long does his interrogation normally take by the way? “

You needed to change the topic quickly before your brain got to over thinking.

” It depends, normally its about and hour or two, guess they just kind of go on how much he can take. I tell you what, I wouldn’t wish that on my worst enemy.“

You turned slowly and looked at her over your shoulder.

” What do you mean? “

” The interrogation… it’s brutal. Why do you think only the grand asshole Secretary of State Thaddeus Ross is allowed to do it. Only he and his people have the stomach for it. I tell you, it makes what Hydra did to Barnes look like a picnic. “

Your cup dropped from your hands at hearing that. You had seen those files a million times and knew what Bucky had endured. Before you knew it your were running down the halls.

PART 8

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