#and seemed to get it after that so... thanks LOK fandom lmao

[anghraine]

My upper-division course lectures are often a bit dry and rambling (surprise!) and I don't generally try to be ~relatable~ or whatever.

That said, I was trying to explain the "queerness isn't really about orientation or gender identity, it's about transgressiveness, okay" line of discourse in queer theory and why some people find it objectionable or absurd, and impulsively decided that nothing could illustrate it better than the feudal lord/handmaiden meme.

I kind of gradually led up to it and it was really funny to see which people knew where I was going and which got to experience it for the first time :P

[ungirthed]

the kisses in atla are actualyl good and cute and wish we could have seen that in action for LoK. also never wish to pin down sexuality cos thanks to the europeans that's when they made stuff that already sucked worse.

maiko with

"i'm bored" "i know" "i'm hungry" "so?" "so get me some food" "sure"

first of all, theyre pissed at each other. and even when they're annoyed they have to touch each other and be in each other's business and be strange and misunderstood but together. she didn't even say "get me some food" that pissed and zuko was irritated but still. he'll do it.

people say they wouldn't work and i don't really get that at all...maybe that ppl don't see It for them (which is fine!) or maybe because fandom wars of things that aren't real (which is stupid).

you can't disentangle their livelihoods and nationhood from their conceptions of self and the way they live. and i think that they are the most likely people—who growing up under, accepting, and/or being a footsoldier of imperialism, colonialism, and fascism and whatever political-economic system they have based on the falseness of ordained rights—could change or at least be open to it. also theyre teenagers. nothing about them lends to intelligibility with regards to their future besides their ages. usually the swiftness of the characters liking each other would make me laugh but it feels nice to be with them and the way they relate to each other.

when zuko said "i don't see it that way" in boiling rock, mai didn't even respond. she was pissed because he left her a note without saying goodbye and she loves him but she wasn't mad at his thoughts. his beliefs. that she must have known he always had. that she may have felt but allowed herself not to—which is a failure in itself and something she will have to atone for forever. they all will.

from what i have seen there seems to be some idea that mai is just a bitch? i guess? but zuko's character shows just how real these people are and how conflicted he is. he's complex but i thought it would be harder to connect to him because i hate everything harmful in this world but you can tell there's so much in him that's just very sensitive, intense, and good. good IN the dark because the dark is light too.

to me i dont think he could be with mai if she couldn't accept that or if she mocked it. her yawning the first time we see them with each other reminded me sm of iroh. at first i was like bitch wtf (after i laughed lmaooo)??? but then i laughed more cos like she obviously did it on purpose. he's not doing well. he never is but he's really not doing well. i was looking forward to the both of them anyway but i didn't want it to be like she's some cunty unfeeling gf and i feared that my fears would be cemented. but it was the opposite!!!

"i don't see it that way" and i think mai is starting to not see it that way too. if she even ever was connected to herself for long enough to think on what that means. her non-response and the fact that they were still talking to each other was such an important signifier. she had nothing to say because that's how they are it seems. the truth is something they need and zuko is genuinely a terrible liar and cannot keep his insides...inside lol. and even though she seems to have a tight lid it's not dishonesty she has a problem with at all. it's the consequences and with him the consequences will never be injurious. it hurts like hell to have someone leave you, break up, have this mission they feel they need to do but harm?

i'm so tired but i love them lmao

which is why i guess i got kinda confused when i saw something about mai not being a person outside of zuko. i REALLY like her character. she could be my favorite if she had a bigger role but i definitely liked her the moment i heard her. that's such a different way to introduce a female character that looks so dark and stoic...she just complains. and her voice is so beautiful lmao but like. she sounded miserable in a funny way. and the comics are really uh interesting (lmao) but it made me like her even more. she's very cool, very funny, very real.

learning how upset and scared she was for/at azula to put an apple on her head to set on fire. knowing that zuko is a sensitive boy who looooves his mom and her love and didn't want mai to hurt because he's a human being seeing another human being in distress so he pushes her to safety. (his "girls are crazy" made me laugh sfm. WE ARE.)

what i really loved was when azula decides to fuck around with her baby brother. i literally said "OH SHIT" irl because that's just such a fucked fucking thing to do. and mai's pause had me thinking she would try something else because you could tell that she didn't appreciate that and was calculating some other way to get what azula needed to finish this bullshit. and in another ep when mai gives azula the Look after she gets up to tend to ty lee bc azula was upset that no one was making out with her...mai makes it sound easy like she's fine with it but it isn't, she's not, and she's tired of all of this bullshit. she wasn't tired or angry enough but she got there.

i looooove love love love love when she says "helping the jerk that dumped me" #1 bc shes making fun of herself and him #2 because it helps her realize what the fuck is going on. i laughed bc she's dragging herself, betraying her imperial lover4life "best friend", and ruining her life in the process. it isn't really over a boy. it's over one of the few things she gives a single shit about because she was given a reason to care.

her scenes are heavily with zuko but that's because, narratively, atla being majorly his story she is in his life. that's how this stuff works. the world does revolve around zuko because the show is also about this amazing character. so the people in his orbit are about him. azula is a person outside of zuko but he is central to her life so he is why her character exists. they dont strip mai of her personhood but to us as a viewer watching the main characters worlds esp the other half of the protagonists (i call him a protag sorryyy) we know mai through zuko. i don't think being a girlfriend to the show's second main character and being introduced via that lens means you are nobody without them. that's a big part of her story tho! but he is not the reason i like her. i like her because i relate to her.

being different is hard especially if you've lived through abuse. being called melancholy and weird, resrved, intense can get really frustrating. having people misunderstand your interests and outlook. and then just being fucking depressed. i saw that the voice actress said her character is depressed (and probably anxious) and it makes complete sense now. that void in you, that need for serotonin, lack of joy in anything, turning yourself off so you can just exist for once. and having oppressive forces always telling you what to do. how to think act talk feel. even how to love. and fucking hating being told what the fuck to do.

everyone's got it all fucking together but the girl who pretends at having it together gets scolded for it but also for ever even thinking of falling apart. she doesn't have to leave those strange gloomy parts of herself behind with zuko and shouldn't with anyone (i know ty lee accepts her so much tho!)

she's not boring in the slightest. she's fucking cool and carries stilettos. fashion icon! but like when things get brighter she can have more interests, a say in herself, a say in her life. she has a safe haven with zuko because he's also all those things that she is too (but very open and honest). being different and unhappy and wanting something more when the world youre in cannot give it to you. for mai she accepted it (mistake. a bad one) and for zuko he just couldn't do it.

when he tells her that he wasn't himself she listens. she knew what he meant. i'm assuming she's felt what it's like to simply not be able to do This anymore. to hold on.

and she does like other people. i mean when zuko asked about that boy when he was being a pussy and jealous during The Beach i was surprised she didn't say "i don't think about him at all" but her reasoning was i don't know him so how can i? that's a different response than simple dismissal over someone you don't know to placate your boyfriend. she's not gonna do that anyway lmao but idk it was so interesting she displayed no hatred. how can i feel for him when i don't know who he is? but not you're the only one for me zuko pls cry some more! thank god

(aside: i like kiyoshi a lot for being serious and stoic but also not. shes' probably not as funny or playful but i love a bisexual bad weird tall bitch. her empathy weighing with the necessity of what is to be done. an individual in a crowd. idk i just like girls like that. and i think kiyoshi is exemplary of the type of person mai could become. all the things that make you different and off to others because you hate pretense and feel a lot become a strength.)

i also love that she lets ty lee hug her. yea personal space but whatever with your close friends you put up with shit. that "clumps?" thing was my faaaaaavorite. first of all cos theyre cute together gotta find some art and fic but also she was playing along. when she asks ty about the circus...did anyone else ask ty lee that? and mai actually being annoyed when ty lee makes fun of her with the makeup.

she is a very full human being living in a place where being an empty miserable shell is normal and they live like the tiny town in footloose. i forgot what katara told the man who killed her moms about himself that was so spot on. just about how EMPTY and unreal their lives are. how they don't know anything at all. they're tiny tiny men. that's what theyre living in and all the people who got out one way or another seem to have that problem: being different.

every time she defies azula even if it isn't to her face. when mai's fed up she cracks a joke at her own expense. if someone gave her some mao she'd def sit and think on it ;) i don't think it's fair to say she had no knowledge of things that her "nation" did but she is a teenager and a sad abused one whose conception of herself is so tied to all the order their environment dictates. the only way out of it was to paper over and try to have people understand her through the necessity of being walled off.

i think as the show goes on the problem is that the characters all feel and know they have to change. what used to work no longer works. they, every single one of htem, are living as abused kids and are trying to make that abuse work. some can never ever make up for the wrongs and probably dont want to, some will always have to attempt but can make an amazing life with that. in the fire nation, mai will always be bored because she's miserable and that misery is part of the fire nation's existence.

we didn't spend a lot of time with her but they made a character people really liked and connected to. whose motives are weird, human, and will forever need to be atoned for. looking cool while kicking people's asses > and having a best friend fuck up her own life cos u inspired her and she loves u then u go 2 prison and then the world is kinda free so she joins a girl gang and gets a gf (i made that up)

in the end mai is with zuko (the series finale group scene is one of my fav scenes in the series and i wish we had more and less of that kiss where i had to watch 2 5 year olds kiss with dramatic ass music omfg) but if she didn't want to be there she wouldn't be. ty lee isn't there. and yes suki is there and we could say it's the couples but suki has been fighting with them (and she and zuko are friends! i mean that's mostly after in the comics but whatever). so they want to be there. mai wants to connect with people and see what they have to do! and a big part of that is being with zuko and caring about what he cares about but her own interest herself. what are her interests? i wish we had gotten more time to see her hobbies or who she was. that isnt because they made her about zuko but simply the structure of the show. now i could expect more but considering they made a character who is relegated to girlfriend and, in typical atla fashion, wrote something solid is good to me. that's why i can like them a lot.

i don't think mai has also ever really lied except if she needed to. i have to go back and check but it strikes me that she's actually honest. i think this bitch is so cool!!!

the beach = ember island

[thinkingisadangerouspastime]

I hate to be an asshole, but I see this a lot and I'd like your take because while we have differing opinions on some things, your metas are spot on (and I binged half your stories last weekend, oops) and I know you'll be straight up with me on this. What "chemistry" between Zuko and Katara? I keep seeing that and not getting it? The chemistry when he roughed up her grandmother and threatened her village? The chemistry when he tied her to a tree and violated her boundaries? (1/3)

The chemistry when he hired a trained assassin to stalk her good friend and if collateral damage happened, oopsie? The chemistry when he stabbed her in the back after she was nice to him in the crystal catacombs? The chemistry when he demanded that she accept him? Or the chemistry when he showed he didn’t know her at all? The chemistry when both of them were grossed out being thought a couple? Or is it the chemistry when he saved her and Katara couldn’t wait to kiss another guy? (2/3)

I dislike r/eylo from Star Wars fandom. I think it sends the wrong message. But as much as I hate it, there was chemistry there from the first. Rey is attracted to him and Kylo is attracted to her. They don’t want to be, but they are and it plays out in the next two movies. There was none of that in ATLA and I can understand z/ks saying it but other people? What am I missing? Where am I not looking? I’m not even that huge on Katara/Aang but Zuko/Katara chemistry where? (3/3)

Obligatory disclaimer: this is my personal response to anon’s questions and my personal thoughts on Zvtara’s chemistry. I’m not going to put this into the main tags - much less the Zvtara tag! - because while I believe this is a genuine question, I don’t doubt there’s at least one person out there who will misconstrue it as “hate” because the A:TLA fandom is, uh, aggressive in its ship wars lol. However, if I have any Zvtara shippers following me, I encourage you to reblog this post with your own thoughts! Please refrain from sending your commentary on anon unless you’re going to be friendly about it, lol; I like to keep my blog positive and welcoming! Thank you :)

Firstly, I am EXTREMELY flattered that you enjoy my metas so much and binged half my fics!! I was grinning so gleefully as I read that part of your asks,, y’all are too sweet to me. 💛

Okay. Moving on.

So, the main question here seems to be this: What chemistry exists between Zuko and Katara in A:TLA?

Short answer? None, in my opinion.

Longer answer? For all the reasons you outline in your asks, I do not perceive any romantic chemistry between Zuko and Katara within the series run of A:TLA. Note the qualifiers: “romantic” and “within the series run.” I’ll try to break down what I mean!

“no romantic chemistry”

For one, a romantic interest with anyone in the Gaang would have undermined Zuko’s entire redemption arc, full stop. Yes, I mean anyone. For Zuko to have joined the Gaang because of romantic interest* would have been… counterproductive. Zuko joined the Gaang because he realized - to put it very simply - that the Fire Nation was wrong. He realized how he’d been indoctrinated since birth. He realized that he could help the Avatar (instead of trying to, uh, kill him lmao) by teaching him firebending. He realized he could help Aang defeat the Fire Lord and bring peace to the four nations. Zuko realized he could help end the war. He could help break the cycles of violence and abuse that had in part made his own life so miserable. For him to join the Gaang because of romantic interest? Completely takes away from all of that. A key theme of A:TLA is dismantling imperialist power, propaganda, rhetoric, etc. Zuko’s decision to fight against Fire Nation imperialism is crucial to his redemption. He could not have been redeemed without making that choice. Thus, if Zuko had joined the Gaang because of romantic interest, it would have been completely counteractive to his redemption.

(*That is, the relatively popular [? I think?] implication that Zuko and Katara’s moment in “The Crossroads of Destiny” was romantic-coded and thus Zuko should have joined the Gaang at the end of Book 2 because he had romantic interest in Katara and she in him. I genuinely am clueless how people interpret that moment as romantic - like to me it’s honestly heartbreaking! Katara offers Zuko tentative sympathy only for him to stab her in the back minutes later - so if someone would like to share some thoughts, please feel free to do so!!)

On a similar note, for Zuko to take the lightning for Katara at the end of the series because of romantic interest would also undermine his redemption arc. Please note: this does not mean Zvtara shippers cannot interpret the Agni Kai as being romantic-coded. Of course they can! That’s what fanon is for! Transformative works! But in terms of canon, Zuko did not try (and fail, rip) to redirect Azula’s lightning because he was romantically interested in Katara. (I mean, in terms of canon, Zuko and Katara were both romantically interested in other people, too, so… Moot point, lol? But I digress.)

Zuko taking the lightning is about him learning to earn forgiveness and accept unconditional love from his family (both Iroh and the Gaang). It is a selfless act, and it directly parallels Zuko’s selfish act in “The Crossroads of Destiny” to stand silently while Azula strikes Aang with lightning, thus becoming complicit in Aang’s death. The point of his “sacrifice” is that Zuko would have taken the lightning for anyone (and don’t get me wrong - the moment is doubly powerful with Katara, as she’s a primary protagonist!). Zuko did not attempt but fail to redirect the lightning because it was Katara he was protecting; he took it because it was the right thing to do. Zuko has learned to differentiate between “right and wrong” on his own. To at last put others before himself. To make his decision about romantic interest? To make Zuko’s most selfless act in the series (not to mention one of his only 100% selfless acts!) about out-of-the-blue “romantic love”? That not only lessens the impact of his decision, but it is also reductive to Zuko’s entire character and arc. There’s no romantic chemistry there.

Again, of course, fanon exists for purposes such as interpreting Zuko’s failed misdirection of the lightning to protect Katara as romantic. Go wild!! I’m talking strictly about canon.

So that pretty much summarizes why romantic interest with anyone in the Gaang would have been detrimental to Zuko’s redemption, hence why Zuko doesn’t have any canon romantic chemistry in the Gaang. It just ain’t there! It would have screwed over his arc! And again, because of all the reasons you outline, I cannot comfortably interpret any romantic chemistry between Zuko and Katara within the series run of A:TLA. Personally, romantic Zvtara would have been too sudden, too unexpected, and too… well, as I said: uncomfortable. Why would Katara have romantic interest in a guy who’d hurt her so many times? Who she’d only just forgiven? Why would Zuko have romantic interest in Katara, a girl he barely knew for most of the series? Especially when he already had feelings for a childhood friend? I, personally, just don’t get it.

But. You know what Zuko and Katara do have in canon?

A phenomenal platonic bond.

It develops very late, admittedly; Katara has only forgiven Zuko for the last five episodes of the series (5 out of 61… Katara was only on good terms with Zuko for 8% of the series, lmao). But Zuko and Katara are very, very similar personality-wise, so it follows that (eventually) they’d be great friends! Yeah, Zuko acts like an entitled dick for a good portion of “The Southern Raiders” lmao, but he ultimately respects Katara’s decision to spare Yon Rha (love that scene so much 🤧). Katara recognizes that Zuko is trying his best (if sometimes falling short) to redeem himself and earn the Gaang’s trust, and she also understands how - while she is completely justified in her anger! - holding that hatred close to her chest isn’t good for her. So she offers him a third chance (and honestly, Zuko should be forever grateful for that lmao!).

So what can a strong platonic bond lead to? Well, if it’s in your taste, a romantic relationship!

“within the series run”

As aforementioned, I don’t see any romantic chemistry between Zuko and Katara within the series run of A:TLA. I think Zuko has hurt Katara in too many ways - and again, she has only just forgiven him by the end of the show - for there to realistically have been any blossoming romance between them. I think romantic interest for anyone in the Gaang would undermine Zuko’s redemption. I also think M@iko and K@taang are well-implemented romances into A:TLA, so romantic Zvtara would not have fit into the narrative. (Doesn’t mean someone has to ship them!! I just mean they made logical sense and had narrative purpose within canon. That’s all.) But again, Zuko and Katara have a great platonic bond. So while I don’t see romance within the series run, I can understand why people might be attracted to Zvtara in post-canon!

Post-A:TLA (disregarding LOK, which I haven’t even seen lol) Zvtara has some solid potential. I’m personally intrigued by the idea of how they’d navigate their relationship amidst all the politics! Basically, any relationship with a strong platonic bond can have potential for “more.” That’s why people ship T@ang, that’s why people ship Zvkaang, Zvkka, M@ilee, etc. So while Zvtara may not have romantic chemistry within the show - in my opinion! - they’ve got one of my favorite platonic bonds, so I can totally get people wanting to explore that bond in post-A:TLA and possibly translating it to romance.

So for some people, then, it might be less about “chemistry” in A:TLA itself, but more how their relationship could grow and change after the end of the series!

Quick sidebar: I mentioned that while I do not interpret the final Agni Kai as romantic, I’m fine when other people do. It’s fanon! Ain’t no big thing! But also, Katara has forgiven Zuko by that point. I, personally, am not comfortable with reading any of Zuko and Katara’s TSR-and-earlier interactions as romantic because of the imbalanced power dynamic. Example: I don’t think Zuko tying Katara to a tree and manipulating her with her mother’s necklace was romantic, and I don’t like the resulting implications when people do treat it as such. Zuko was still so indoctrinated by Fire Nation propaganda… Yeah, from Book 1 to about halfway through Book 3, I personally don’t feel comfortable shipping Zuko with anyone outside of the Fire Nation. Pre-redemption Zuko was not the most fun person to be around if you were non-Fire Nation.

But as I’ve said, these are all just my opinions! Again, if I have any Zvtara shippers following me, please feel free to reblog with your own thoughts! I would love to know where the idea comes from that Zvtara had chemistry within A:TLA, since I personally don’t see any romantic vibes (though platonic chemistry, of course, abounds.)

(For the record, I don’t know anything about Star Wars, which is why I haven’t brought up R.eylo, lol.)

TL;DR - To me, there isn’t any canon romantic chemistry for Zvtara. Narratively, I think it would undermine Zuko’s arc. Logically, because of how Zuko treated Katara for 92% of the series, I personally cannot interpret any of their interactions as romantic. But their platonic bond? Beautiful!! Thus, if people want to explore post-A:TLA, fanon Zvtara, I am all for it.

[transtenzin]

hi! this is your mailee net anon, i hope you're doing well! first of all I love your art so much, that digital drawing you did of tenzin was honestly incredible!!! (and tenzin in blue 💖💖💖) second, i wanted to ask who are your top 5 atla/lok characters and why?

sksj thank you ❤❤ i'm so excited for this (two?) month's prompt because i have something to draw in mind 😭

anyways these aren't in any particular order because if u asked me to do that i will actually cry so:

aang - literally so incredibly mature while also being silly and not taking himself too seriously most of the time. he has so much respect for everyone he meets and is very open minded (except with food lmaoo) and he is criminally underrated in the fandom. like he cares so much for others and always goes back and fixes things when he feels like he is responsible for them (talking about things like him going back and putting out the fires at Kyoshi Island)

korra - 😭😭 i can't even form a coherent thought about her... i love her so much.... i love how openly excited, happy, angry, etc. she can be and i do not think i can't just not bring up her sheer determination 😭 literally love her so much... she's incredibly kind and doesn't get nearly as much recognition as she should for her accomplishments by the fandom. we aren't even going to touch how most of the conflicts korra, the brown, indigenous female protagonist, is given revolve around her agency being taken from her, but i WILL say that i genuinely enjoy her character and her distinctly NOT being like aang ❤

tenzin - i know you saw this coming... i just... i care him. he is very much ignored despite how MUCH he cares and how hard he tries. (seeing a pattern yet?) like for real... him talking to korra about her fears and never making her feel stupid or childish for them even after making sure she was turning down tarrlok for the "right reasons", him getting so excited about the new airbenders and trying so hard to get them to come to the air temple, him doing his best to make the new airbenders that do come really be part of it (not saying it was good though lol), how he would rather fight zaheer than let him use them against korra, and doing so much to protect not only pema and their kids and bumi and kya, but also korra and the other airbenders, who are ALSO his family... anyways... 😭 yeah i just love him

katara - i honestly do not understand how people can hate her (well yes i do most of the time it boils down to racism and misogyny). she cares so much for other people, even those she barely knows. she brings up her mother, something extremely traumatic and painful for her, to let other people know "i know what that feels like" when trying to comfort others and make them feel understood in their grief. and while i know this fandom hates traumatized brown girls anyways, everyone seems to ignore how katara is shown again and again to have strong senses of morality and compassion--her refusing to bloodbend, her creating an entire getup and plan to stay behind and help a village, getting herself captured to help haru and the other earthbenders escape, etc. she's a great character and i love her 😭😭❤

suki - 😘✨ do i need to explain this one? she is extremely funny (especially her sarcasm toward sokka LMAO 😭) and the only one that has at least two braincells at all times. also did u guys like SEE when she captured the warden?? and like... she fought azula even though she probably knew she would lose, just to protect him and make sure he got back to aang, as well as went on the serpent's pass just to make sure the others made it through safely. 😭 and is anyone gonna talk about how she literally made it through SO LONG in one of the worst prisons in the world?? or how she is literally the leader of the kyoshi warriors, one of the best nonbender fighting groups in the world, at 15??? like... are we gonna get her backstory or...