#and under the lake/before the flood

[sparemintss]

this is my twelveclara/whouffaldi infodump of 2024

ive been a fan of doctor who since 2019, so im not new to the fandom and definitely not new with the shipping ! from then on they have been my roman empire and this is me infodumping to a person who has not continued/has not watched the entirety of doctor who [People asked to be tagged @anchored-trident , @anteroom-of-death ]

[notyoujamie]

[hunterbloodknight]

She is everything

Clara: See ya. Don’t rob any banks.

Doctor: Don’t rob any banks what?

Clara: Without me.

Clara: Then why are you helping me?

Doctor: Why? Do you think I care for you so little that betraying me would make a difference?

Clara: How did you know I was here? Did you see me?

Doctor: When do I not see you?

Clara: If you love me in any way, you'll come back

Doctor: That list. Everyone after you was random. But you being the next name, that’s what made me confront the Fisher King.

Clara: What were you bargaining for?

Doctor: What do you think? You

[digitalafterlife]

time is a body of water innit . some kind of turbulent ocean, always in flux, forever shifting. that's why it must be traversed in a ship (or you risk seasickness – a vortex manipulator is a leaky dinghy?) the current is strong but it is possible to sail again it, theoretically, though not without losses and not without fear.

pond. river. flood.

calm and playful one second and the next there's a storm at sea. oncoming on the horizon

[marbleheavy]

If you watched the season 9 Under the Lake/Before the Flood episode duology and didn’t know that Clara and the Doctor were going to tear the universe apart for each other than idk what to tell you other than you’re a goofball

[quantumshade]

you google the bootstrap paradox -> you watch twelve talk about the bootstrap paradox -> you're told to google the bootstrap paradox -> you google the bootstrap paradox

[aletterinthenameofsanity]

Feelings about Bringing Back Moffat For RTD2 + Other Writers I Think Should Get the Chance

Whelp, just found out that Steven Moffat is going to be writing an episode of Fifteen and I'm just like...eh? about the whole prospect. Like, not as terrified as I once might have been but like...hoping he grew as a writer. Because even though I vastly prefer his one-offs to his overarching season ideas...let's not pretend that you couldn't see the warning signs looking back. The focus on either women as mothers (Doctor Dances) women companions as operating in service/deference to the Doctor (Empty Child/Blink) or women as the Time Traveller's Wife (Girl in the Fireplace, Silence in the Library/Forest of the Dead). Empty Child/Doctor Dances, Blink, and Silence in the Library/Forest of the Dead are all fantastic episodes and I think Blink is the strongest one-off (though let's all remember that the ending was suggested by Gatiss, not Moffat) though I will adore Empty Child/Doctor Dances until I die (though let's not forget that Jack Harkness was an RTD invention).

I really hope he learned his lessons through writing latestage Clara and Bill as companions, but I'm honestly just as scared of his racial undertones as am of RTD's. Let's not forget that both of the black companions under Moffat (Bill&Danny) were both dehumanized/turned into Cybermen in order to service Clara and the Doctor/Missy's arcs (though Bill's ending is far better handled in terms of giving Bill her own ending than Danny's, imo), just as RTD really callously handled Martha's treatment, especially in historical episodes. That is not to say that I don't have some hope due to how Bill's race was handled in Thin Ice, but let's just say I'm cautious about getting super excited like some people are.

All of which is to say...I want Toby Whithouse to write a one-off in the RTD2 Era. Or many. I want his examination of the fucked-up and complicated psychological aspects of the Doctor/Companion relationship and even the Doctor themself (I mean he is the one who wrote School Reunion, God Complex, A Town Called Mercy, Under the Lake/Before the Flood, and Vampires of Venice).

ALSO more women and writers of color. I want to see what kind of new voices in sci-fi can be brought to the table and explore more aspects of their experiences, especially as it pertains to historical/future episodes. I'm done with pretending that Demons of the Punjab wasn't one of the best episodes of Doctor Who, and that was specifically because an Indian writer (Vinay Patel) was brought in to write it. (Also, can we see Vinay back as well? He also wrote Fugitive of the Judoon which was another banger. He's also really good at exploring character feelings/implications of time travel/memory.) I also think that Joy Wilkinson, who wrote the Witchfinders, could be a fun choice as well. I really liked the Witchfinders and I'm curious to see how she might tackle a subject matter like that again.

[justahumblememefarmer]

Ultimate Doctor Who Poll Round 1 - Matchup 23

Episode Summaries under the cut

121: Under the Lake/Before the Flood - Season 9, Episodes 3 & 4: The Doctor and Clara land on an underwater base in the 22nd century, and see ghosts haunting the base. They find an alien ship on the base with strange writing on the wall. After checking it out, the ghosts attack them. While running away, the crew of the station brings them into a Faraday cage, which is able to keep the ghosts out. The ghosts are also unable to come out when the base is in day mode. The ghosts are intelligent and are working on programming it to constantly be night. They also sent a distress call, which the Doctor cancels and puts the base on lockdown, as he doesn't want the ghosts to succeed in getting out.

They lure the ghosts into the Faraday cage and trap them inside. One deaf crew member is able to read the lips of the ghosts repeated message, which the Doctor realizes are coordinates to the flooded town outside the base. They also realize the strange writing programmed the coordinates into their heads and are what make people become ghosts when they die. They send out a probe and return a stasis pod that they are unable to open. The changes to night and day mode at the base cause a system error and the base starts flooding. The Doctor and two crew members make it to the TARDIS, but Clara and the remaining crew are stuck on the other side of the flooded base. The Doctor takes the crew back to before the village flooded.

They arrive in the past, on the day the spaceship landed. They see that it is essentially a hearse, does not have the strange writing on the wall, and is manned by an alien whose ghost they saw in the future. He explains that he is transporting the body of the Fisher King. In the future, the ghost of the Doctor appears listing out the names of everybody in the order in which they died, including those who are still alive. In the past, they return to the ship to find the Fisher King escaped his tomb and the writing is on the wall. The Fisher King kills the alien, who becomes the first ghost. He soon kills one of the crew who becomes the second.

They take the TARDIS 30 minutes into the past, to when they first landed. The Doctor makes the remaining crew member wait on board the TARDIS and goes to confronts the Fisher King, who plans to turn everybody into ghosts to transmit a signal for his people to come rescue him. The Doctor bluffs by claiming that he erased the words on the ship. The Fisher King returns to his ship to rewrite the words, but finds them still there, just as a device the Doctor activated blows a whole in the dam, causing the flood. The Doctor enters the stasis pod himself, and the TARDIS returns to the future to avoid the flood.

In the future, he emerges from the stasis pod, and sends out a signal to get rid of the ghosts. He reveals that his own ghost was only a hologram that he projected. The rest of the crew get to safety, and the Doctor and Clara leave in the TARDIS.

129: Closing Time - Season 6, Episode 12: The Doctor goes to visit his friend Craig, who he'd met previously. Craig is looking after his baby while his wife takes a short vacation to rest. After noticing some electrical irregularities and a newspaper article about missing people, he gets a job at the toy department of a department store. Craig runs into him there the next day, and while taking the lift are teleported onto a Cyberman ship, but he reverses it and gets him and Craig to safety. He allows Craig to help him investigate the situation.

They discover that the Cyber-ship crashed centuries ago with a single survivor. Recent electrical work for the shop reactivated the ship and it has been slowly draining power and capturing people to convert. The Doctor makes it aboard the ship and is captured, but Craig follows him. They grab Craig and begin to convert him, but the sound of his baby crying causes a surge of emotion that overrides the Cyber programming and he escapes. The Doctor teleports them out and destroys the ship behind them.

[nortism]

doctor who liveblog pt 45

it’s been a while since i watch doctor who, my excuse is i didn’t feel like it

s9 ep3 under the lake

- don’t investigate the obvious alien lake craft

- uh oh man with no eyes

- uhhhhh fire

- oh fuck ghost episode

- give her a high five man

- he’s such a nerd, i love him

- what do ghosts need an axe for?

- imagine you’re a sign language interpreter and you end up having to deal with ghost aliens in an underwater military base

- the tardis doesn’t translate mystery alien language and british sign language for some reason

- twelve gotta be the most commie incarnation of the doctor

- rip the doctor, you would have loved bbc ghosts

- not the fucking cards 😭😭

- i love clara’s outfit without the jacket

- oh rip rich guy

- we should definitely abandon the base

- uh oh quarantine

- oh these special effects are terrible

- nahh they can’t kill the interpreter, who’s gonna translate for cass

- oh good

- clara hologram !!

- the fucking sunglasses

- uh oh

- clara!!!

- GHOST DOCTOR!?!?!

s9 ep4 before the flood

- i have no idea what’s going on

- sick guitar tho

- rose, martha, amy mention?!?

- i thought it looked liked a coffin!!

- uh oh walking dead

- the list is the order of the dead!!!

- he’s changing history to save clara !!

- ohh an in his own time stream episode, i like these ones

- clara’s corruption arc

- ohhhh his jacket is tornnnn

- oh i do not like that grim reaper looking guy

- “we stick together”, immediately wanders off

- oh noo she can’t hear the axe noooo

- ohhh shes feeling it

- run girl run!!!

- yeah i don’t think i get it but i’m glad everyone’s okay

s9 ep5 the girl who died

- viking episode!!

- rip the sunglasses

- hi odin

- what in the actual fucj is that

- ASHILDR NOO

- oh they’re actually bringing up fires of pompeii

- oh she’s back

- oh she’s immortal now

- can’t he just a repair kit to clara then?

- is every episode this series gonna be a two parter?

s9 ep6 the woman who lived

- yess then highway men

- ASHILDR!! i mean i could have guessed but it’s nice to see her all the same

- oh ashildr villain arc?

- just take her with you at this point

- uh oh lion man

- oh and he breathes fire

- look i can’t help but be on ashildr’s side, immortality sucks

- gotta respect the commitment to doing standup at your own execution

- is purple the colour of death?

- yeah i could have seen this coming

- oh god she’s gonna have to spend the rest of her life with that guy

- uhh rip lion man

- CAPTAIN JACK HARKNESS MENTIONNMNMNN!!!!

- “the doctor’s leftovers”…. she got his ass

- “i’m not going anyway” they always say that before they die tragically

[halestromthewhoobsessed]

Doctor Who is absolutely chock full of cliffhangers that attempt to fool the viewer into thinking that the Doctor has met his death, but Under the Lake’s take on the trope is one of the most unique, and consequently one of the most effective.

[master-missysversion]

Saw something about Peter capaldi having doctor who's greatest two parter and i think its funny I had to wonder which one they actually meant because 12 has so many amazing 2 parters

[variousqueerthings]

but what about those things that aren't ghosts?

Under The Lake/Before The Flood. this is just a solid couple of scifi episodes honestly, plus I mean. a bangin Predator-like alien design (last season we had Facehuggers, this season we have this, I feel like someone was doing a little rewatch of those movies, but I'm not mad)

I actually didn't take cohesive notes for most of s9, unlike the seasons that came before it, because. just didn't wanna. I was enjoying the watch, so this will be more from memory from here on out (good luck me)

sexism rank objectification (female character is ogled/harassed/turned into a sex joke by the doctor and/or a lead we’re supposed to root for and/or the camera): 10/10

sexism rank plot-point (lead female character is only there to serve plot, not to have her emotional interiority explored, or given agency to her emotional interiority): 4/10

interesting complex or pointlessly complex (does the complexity serve the narrative or does it just serve to be confusing as a stand-in for smart, this includes visually): 7/10

furthers character and/or lore and/or plot development (broader question that ties into the previous ones, at least two of these, ideally three should be fulfilled): 5/10

companion matters (the companion doesn’t always have to be there, but if the companion is there, can they function without the doctor– and overall per season how often is the companion the focus or POV of the story): 3/10

the doctor is more than just “godlike” (examines the doctor’s flaws and limitations, doesn’t solve a plot by having it revolve entirely around the doctor’s existence): 8/10

doesn’t look down on previous doctor who (by erasing or mocking its importance, by redoing and “bettering” previous beloved plotpoints or characters, etc.): 7/10

isn’t trying to insert hamfisted sexiness (m*ffat famously talked a lot about how dw should be sexier multiple times, he sucks at writing it): 9/10

internal world has consistency (characters have backgrounds, feel rooted in a place with other people, generally feel like they have Lives): 7/10

Politics (how conservative is the story): 8/10

FULL RATING: 68/100 (if I can count….)

See? Solid! although I will be poking at that companion thing, because my main gripe about s9 -- now we've seen the whole thing and we know how it goes down -- is how little it managed to centre Clara on the whole, both emotionally and just... relevant to having the individual plots happen. this is not an issue in every single episode, but I'd say over the half of the season had Clara be largely irrelevant. the episodes where she is relevant show her off very well, but it's just a shame that in her final season she's not put front and centre

I just don't feel like I understand her, still. but, to the episode!

OBJECTIFICATION: As far as I can remember there's nothing in the way of this in this episode. there's three female characters (including Clara) and they're all quite different, Clara is the only one not dressed for the place, but then she's just hopping about in time, not preparing for being chased through an underwater base

Idk, it's been a long time since I last wore a skirt or a dress or heels outside of a little drag, and while I'm quite flouncy in my presentation, I just think if I knew that anything could happen I'd generally veer semi-practical and Clara is consistently not a practical dresser, just as-is, consistently. but maybe that's the pull of skirts and heels -- genuine question, because I'm so far outside of this living, because I just feel like Clara's expression of self outside of a couple of episodes (Time Heist my beloved, and tbh Zygon Invasion 👀) is often just... blandly fashionable in a way that doesn't say much about her character or work for the setting she's in

this isn't the worst episode for it, but it's something I really couldn't stop thinking about it by this point. I feel like every other nu!who companion -- tbh including Amy in her fist couple of seasons even though I didn't like that her wardrobe was often to show off that Karen Gillan was "hot" -- has a far stronger identity tied to wardrobe

anyway. enough rambling on one point, I didn't rate this lower, because she's not being objectified here, I just wish there were less bland choices being made

PLOT-POINT: Clara is largely unimportant to this plot. she doesn't really need to be there, in the sense that there are quite compelling stories for the single-episode characters, and for the Doctor, but she's just. there really

this is also a thing that s9 kind of brought to the fore, although it was an issue from the start, which is that Clara is a very ungrounded character for most of her run. there are episodes where she's more real, and where her interaction with the plot is about her in some way, and in which the tension between her and the Doctor make sense to me, but every season she's in she becomes a slightly different character without the journey being shown onscreen, and her tensions with the Doctor, which can be broadly divided into

s7: the impossible girl question s8: the "making each other worse" season s9: the duty of care

just... don't follow on from each other in my opinion. I keep looking for Clara as a connected character, and there are some things that follow through (which is what I hold on to), but for the most part she just shifts with the plot, rather than the plot in some way interacting with who she is. again, these episodes are not the worst for it, having a few episodes where the companion character is taking a backseat is fine, but this is her final season

there are 7 episodes this season, if we take the doubles each as their own (Sleep No More and Face The Raven being singles), and it takes place after the finale of Clara having lost Danny, having betrayed the Doctor, and having threatened to - and fully intended to - kill someone. there is a lot of potential Stuff to zero in on, but we're just not gonna do that. Clara is just not the character I care about in most of these episodes, because the episodes don't really care about her. she's a secondary or tertiary character in her own adventure a lot of the time

COMPLEXITY: this plot feels pretty Doctor Who, I enjoy it a lot. I like the bad guy, I like the melancholy, I like the scifi nonsense. could it have been done in one episode? maaaaybe, but I enjoyed spending time with these characters, so I'm okay with that. sometimes you wanna spend more time in the world, just cos, and this is one of those times for me. there's a couple of questions that remain, but again, I think that's standard for DW

CHARACTERS/LORE/PLOT: this is pretty much a standalone story in the season. I didn't rate it lower, but maybe I could have, idk. it's Clara again, I wish Clara meant more -- it didn't need to further the Doctor's and Clara's relationship more, but I think because I don't understand it very well to begin with, I would have liked a... something or other that went beyond what was there. this is not an episode issue, it's really a Clara-era issue. I think I'll just never quite get what the writers were going for with her, and it's just that s9 is the season that confirms that for me

COMPANIONS MATTER: Clara spends most of her time running around and waiting for the Doctor to tell her what to do. there's the end of part 1 where they become stuck in different points in time, and I thought "ooh now Clara takes control of the situation on the base" and she... doesn't. the Doctor calls her and continues to give instruction, then the phone gets stolen by the ghosts and her big idea is "hey this guy could go fetch it for us"

she has a few neat lines, I liked her scene with Cass, where Cass is essentially telling her to go fuck herself for getting the man she not-so-secretly loves in danger, and insisting they go after him, but that is kind of my point -- Clara does not drive this episode at any point, except for that moment and it's... not a great look for her. she's the asshole, she convinces someone else to do something dangerous and then has to be convinced to go after him

I did like when she lost Cass and called out for her, before remembering Cass is deaf and calling herself an idiot. there are these neat little moments I hold onto with Clara's character and that's one of them

“GODLIKE” DOCTOR: the Doctor sorts out the main Stuff and that's fine. I like that this Doctor is afraid sometimes and deals with things via their wits, but also with a bit of "well this might not work, let's fuckn see!" The Fisher King coulda just killed him, but the Doctor just crossed their fingers essentially and hoped for the best and then bluffed to win

also I mean. Fisher King kinda sexy. idk where else to put that. any big big alien that goes "lol Time Lords are losers" is right and sexy

PREVIOUS DOCTOR WHO: there's quite a few little casual references in this episode which I liked. Magpie Electricals, ofc the fact that Prentiss has knowledge of the Doctor via UNIT (UNIT again... they're villains in my head honestly), the security protocol, etc. it just feels very grounded in nu!who canon in a way that's fun and doesn't overwhelm the episode with nostalgia references

“SEXINESS”: there's this bit at the beginning where Clara asks if they can go back to this one place they were where she left behind most of her dignity, and listen, I'm being peevish maybe, but it is a pet peeve, so. maybe if I dig at it more I can say why I don't like it, but in the end maybe I'm just tired of M*ffat-era's way of doing sex and sexual reference. that is also the only reference, s9 doesn't do this a lot, but it also just plays back into Clara as a character. who are you? why are you in space? just to fuck about and have a good time? are you the villain Clara? are you a Space Tourist From England That's Just In It For Yourself? or do you respect the places you go, does this mean anything to you?

overanalyses my pet peeve

but also. so much of Clara is just. quipping. gimme more than quips, gimme substance dammit!

INTERNAL WORLD: it's relatively simple. underwater spooky base. spooky base before it was underwater. did they really build nuclear sites like that in Scotland? genuine question, I have no idea

again, feels very grounded in Doctor Who, but casually

POLITICS: I complained back in *checks notes* s7? I think? whenever Centre Of The Tardis was. that M*ffat-era sucked at putting people of colour in his stories, especially men of colour, without them being villains or stereotypes. I feel like I need to go back and look over s8, and have more of a think about s9 as a whole, but I do note that this episode on the whole was having a much more fun time with infinite diversity in infinite ways than I have often felt M*ffat-era has had. it's not the bastion of representation in the sense that it's something that ought to just belong to DW as-is, it's just nice to simply see people

and obviously Cass is grounded at the forefront of the story, and is very important to the emotional core of the plot, as well as various tensions and plot concepts. I'm not deaf, but on the whole it seemed like it was doing a lot with this episode, obviously by having an interpreter who's also someone she clearly has a lot of chemistry with, and the whole idea that these two characters come as a set, not just because nobody else speaks BSL, but because they understand each other emotionally as well

there's also several parts that go untranslated for a non-signing audience, and I wonder how much swearing one is allowed if it's signed. so she's a great character. I kind of wish there hadn't been the early joke of the Doctor being like "aw yeah I can do sign language" and then... not being able to? Why wouldn't the Doctor speak BSL?

I understand there may have been extra logistics, but tbh they coulda just confirmed it in that scene, but had the interpreting happen anyway, because we know that Twelve wouldn't bother getting anyone else up to speed. just think that was an odd choice

perhaps a tad nitpicky, but I am nothing in this if not picking at nits

FULL RATING: 68/100 (if I can count….)

this is a good episode in my opinion. one of the most solid of M*ffat-era, thoroughly enjoyed myself. I wish wish wish Clara had been more than witty one-liners, I feel like there were several points where she could have been given more to do, but I really like the other characters, and The Fisher King design is... well. this blog likes monsterfucking so obvs it was great for me personally

[khruschevshoe]

My Hot-Take/Controversial Ranking of Doctor Who Seasons (excluding specials bc my special order is really unhinged)

3 > 1 > 10 > 4 > 5 > 8 > 11 > 12 > 9 > 7b > 2 > 6 > 13 = 7a

Disclaimer: I have favorite episodes that come from every single season on this list, including 7a. For example, even though Season 6 is low on the list, the God Complex, Almost People/Rebel Flesh, and Impossible Astronaut are some of my favorite of the show. I do really love the Power of Three. These are based on season arc/average feeling per episode/rewatchability on a subjective level.

[digitalafterlife]

the impossible leninist church as yet another one of the twelfth doctor's mirrors

these two shots from before the flood come back to back. one after the other

he is unwavering faith and belief in the impossible and repentance and strict moral code and guilt and confession and trust and foresight and transcendence and surrender

he is rationality and control and conscience and materialism and skepticism and historicity and atheism and truth and dignity and survival and victory (the red block lettering on the poster says "pobedim" — "we will be victorious")

.

the friend inside the enemy and the enemy inside the friend. the scientist and the magician. the priest and the folk hero and the reluctant politician. call him doctor dialectics

cinematography as communication!

[doctorwhoarchiveofrandomness]

The Fisher King wasn't quite what the Doctor had expected.

[spockvarietyhour]