#and with that said….I was never a fan of Eletrka with Matt either

[wonderlandmind4]

Super agree with Foggy...look at Defenders where he sets aside his feelings towards Matt being Daredevil and shows him support by handing him his suit personally. And in S3 when he was adamant to Karen that he was willing to forgive Matt and didn't want to abandon him

But is Karen really at the same level of importance? One of the things that tick me is that I feel like I've seen Karen support Frank more than she ever did Matt. This is why I kinda fail to see the "she's so vital to Matt"...she didn't really show that. Not saying I wanted her to just show mindless unconditional support but it was weird how much more grace she showed to Frank than Matt in attempting to understand his motivations. She just straights up liken him to an addict which is problematic to me. Matt was the one man to ever help her first in her problem yet she couldn't lend him as much grace as she did Frank. Doesn't sit well with me at all

This is why she will never be as important as Foggy IMO. Sorry for the long rant.

Agai this really is a matter of fan’s opinion because I’ve seen so much Karen hate sadly, but for me, yes. I think she is. I say Foggy was the heart of the show, but not only to Matt, he was to Karen too. (She does say at one point that it was Matt AND Foggy that convinced her Matt was some kind of addict)

Matt has become one of my favorite characters ever, but I didn’t ignore some flaws he had or slightly had, and Karen was also a flawed character in certain ways. But she didn’t just straight up support Frank until after she dug deeper and found out what really happened why he was doing what he he did. And unfortunately that came at a time in S2 where there was too much shit on Matt’s plate and some things fell through the cracks. But Karen’s past makes sense of why she aligned with Frank and/or wanted to help him.

Because she also has a good heart under that penchant for pulling a trigger sometimes 🤷🏻‍♀️ she’s just a little more okay doing it if she absolutely has to. But she’s always been determined and sharp minded and wants to help just as much as Matt does so when she was finally told, and it all made sense, by that point she was already hurt and disappointed 🤷🏻‍♀️ but she also comes around by the Defenders and S3- especially holding that hope and having a feeling that Matt wasn’t truly gone.

In S3 when Matt shows up at her place again Karen is back in a life threatening situation and her reactions to him again make sense for that moment and honestly very realistic.

If she was told sooner about Matt’s secret, if Matt revealed himself to be alive sooner in S3, she would have a different reaction. But this also goes back to my point about Foggy being the one who knows every side and shape and cut and damage piece of Matt. When he says to Karen that all of Matt’s life he’s been abandoned and he wasn’t going to do the same even after everything, and that everything was very much rooted in Matt’s own self hate and worth and his trauma. And I think once Karen was reminded of that she too wasn’t going to abandon Matt.

To me she never really did, stepping away to take time for herself is different than full on never speaking to him again or leaving, es if she felt hurt from the events in S2 but in The Defenders we see that she does still care for Matt.

The whole “vital” part to Matt thing I think is due to, again, her own heart and deep care she has for Foggy and Matt because she too lost her entire family (but it her fault or an accident) but because of some of the violence in her own life, and siding with Frank, she has more of an understanding with Matt’s violent Devil side and the injustice that’s the cause of that.

She’s just not the typical female character that sits by a man and lets them get away with hurting her or is super quick to forgive and forget, because if you hurt her you better not do it again. And maybe that’s something I resonated with in a way, but to me yeah, I think she’s just as important to Matt’s life. BUT that doesn’t have to be a continued romance (as they showed in Defenders and S3) and now that she knows everything and understands it more would make her someone else in his corner supporting him.

(Let’s not forget that Foggy still doesn’t outright support Daredevil’s tactics mainly because he’s terrified of Matt dying or getting caught)