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lakesbian · 1 year

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so i blinked & accidentally wrote 2.4k words of alec analysis, content warning for extended discussion of child sexual abuse

i am actually like. genuinely surprised by how common of an alec opinion it is that people would probably feel more negatively about him if we had a chapter from the perspective of one of his victims or if we had more details on his life prior to the undersiders, because the idea goes directly counter to one of the core Things you have to get if you want to understand alec: much like taylor, you should take absolutely fucking nothing he says about himself at face value, because--also much like taylor--he is Absolutely Fucking Terrible at understanding himself!

and speaking of taylor, she is also absolutely fucking terrible at understanding alec. nearly all of the commentary we get on alec is from taylor’s point of view, and she’s frankly incredibly ungenerous towards him.

her very first thought about his childhood mentally classifies him as not being one of heartbreaker’s victims, and the pity she’s offering him wears out pretty quickly when he doesn’t speak about the abuse in terms she finds palatable--while she does secondarily recognize that living with heartbreaker impacted him on some level, she regards him primarily as someone who does Bad Things because he’s a Bad Coldhearted Person.

she and alec are fairly similar--they’re both people who have been abused, people who are remarkably desensitized to violence because they’ve been abused, they’re both people who have ended up on the same villain team where they regularly commit terrible acts of violence, and they’re both people who are terminally oblivious to their own emotions while they commit those acts of violence. their actions are both similarly horrifying from an outside viewpoint, but by sectioning alec’s actions off in her mind as being horrifying because he’s ontologically a bad person w/ no interiority or justifiable reasoning for his actions, she doesn’t have to face that her own actions are horrifying regardless of how she justifies them to herself. neat little compartmentalization trick! alec stabbed that guy to death with a fork because he’s a Bad Person, but when she used triumph as a bargaining chip by filling his lungs with bugs, it was for Understandable and Interiority-Having reasons, so she’s fine.

what this means is that nearly all of the commentary we get on alec is from the perspective of someone who has a very strong psychological incentive to avoid being fair to alec.

much of what taylor thinks about alec is blatantly irrational and wrong, and the fact that he (similarly emotionally oblivious wrt himself + probably entirely unaware she feels this way about him) never directly confronts her misconceptions means that we spend the entire book being told “hey, here are the reasons you should think alec sucks” without any alternate viewpoints to consider. i think that if we saw the worst things pre-undersiders alec did without the repressed way undersider alec describes them or taylor’s biased perspective obscuring what actually happened, most people would feel Really Fucking Bad for him!

even in the very first discussion of his childhood, it’s clear that taylor’s reading of the events is wrong--aside from the fact that she’s not classifying the kids as victims (girl what), there’s these lines from alec:

“[He] pushed my limits, made me do stuff that was dangerous, stuff that was hard on my conscience.”

“I had convinced myself I didn’t care about the people I was hurting or about this guy I’d just killed, and maybe I didn’t. Maybe I don’t, still. Dunno.“

taylor’s response to this is:

“He’d been made to do it, he’d been in fucked up circumstances with no real moral compass to go by, still a kid. The way he described it, though, it didn’t sit well with me. Cold blooded murder.“

that is not how he described it.

1. he outright says that what he was forced to do was “hard on his conscience”

2. he outright says that he “had convinced himself he didn’t care about the people he was hurting,” i.e he was a 10-13yo child being forced into extreme violence by his ridiculously abusive father & he naturally repressed his emotional reaction to it because there’s no other way to feasibly psychologically cope with feeling the full brunt of the emotions that induces. he’s not a Cold Blooded Bitch, he was a kid desperately convincing himself he didn’t care because he couldn’t care if he was going to survive.

3. yeah, he says “maybe i don’t [care], dunno.” this is because the 3+ years he spent learning to cram every emotional response he had to his abuse into a box & then solder-iron that box shut do not magically disappear the second he escapes from his father. it’s not at all unreasonable that taylor (also 15 and horribly emotionally repressed) misses this, but the “maybe” and “dunno” are indicators that he genuinely can’t tell whether or not he cares! as imp points out after he dies, it’s not that his emotions aren’t there at all, it’s that he has no ability to read them--much like taylor, he’s great at convincing himself of things regarding his feelings and then genuinely believing those things. he’s fifteen and has been out of his abusive home for all of 2.5 years--he’s not capable of grasping the full impacts that the abuse had on his psyche, and the way he describes everything from a detached perspective and waffles about on allowing himself interiority is a natural result of that.

if we saw this or any of the other murders alec was forced to commit as they were happening, we would not be feeling less generous towards him, we would be thinking “i want to beat heartbreaker to death with his own bones, because this is an evil thing to do to a child.”

okay, that’s the murder out of the way. now onto the significantly more controversial aspect of what alec did as a 10-13yo.

taylor generally regards alec as a special type of ontologically real & distinct class of person called a rapist. many people in the fandom share her viewpoint on that one. and, like, objectively true--he is a rapist, he raped people. but applying “rapist” as a descriptor meaning “evil piece of shit who sucks, but i guess he gets some leeway since he was a kid, but he still sucks and is bad and probably a sociopath” is massively flattening the circumstances under which he committed sexual violence & severely underestimating how it impacted his psyche.

taylor--and again, most other people in the fandom--tend to unilaterally go “gross and fucked up, he sucks, moving on” during bits where alec discusses that aspect of his childhood. but if we actually pause to read between the lines for the details and then address the actual context (which alec is not capable of doing, because 1. emotional repression to hell and back and 2. it was, as he said, normal to him), it becomes very clear that it’s unjustifiable to slap the “Sucks + Evil Predator” label on him and then move on feeling comforted by the straightforward moral judgement.

“’Sure,’ Alec drawled. In a more normal voice, he said, ‘But what I’m saying is he wouldn’t mind. Now, it’s been a little while, but there was a time when I had someone in my bed every night.’

‘When you were with Heartbreaker,’ I said. From the look of disgust on Aisha’s face, and what I imagined was a similar expression on my own, I suspected we were on the same page. At least on this one thing.

‘Sure. Cape groupies, my dad’s girls, people I used my powers on toward the end.’

There wasn’t even a trace of guilt or shame on his expression, no regret in his tone. He just looked bored.

He went on, ‘What I’m saying is that I’m speaking from experience. Having someone cuddled up beside you, even if it’s a little bit of a pain in the ass, having that body contact isn’t so bad. Especially when you’ve had a bad day.’”

like, okay. let’s unpack all the implications there.

1. alec is bringing up this whole topic as an attempt at empathy--aisha is effectively saying “i’m pissy at taylor for being intimate w/ brian while he’s experiencing the worst pain of his life” and alec is effectively responding with “i support them, because when i was in similar circumstances, physical intimacy made me feel better.” it is extremely notable that he’s implicitly comparing brian’s “bad day” (getting fucking bonesawed!) to his own “bad day” (living with his dad)!

2. alec grew up in Emotional Neglect & Abuse: The Household. this is established in buzz 7.1--he recounts that there was zero attention paid to him & the other kids except for when heartbreaker was terrifying the shit out of them for either a perceived slight or in an attempt to force a trigger event. he also grew up in Sexual Abuse: The Household. as detailed in one WoG, the heartbroken were a massive group hiding out in significantly less massive houses--6-8 people sharing a room was common. alec was constantly in close quarters to normalized sexual abuse from the ages of zero to thirteen, e.g the memory mentioned in his interlude where he starts crying over not being given the TV remote and a sweaty, wearing-nothing-but-briefs heartbreaker stomps out of the bedroom to terrify alec for interrupting what was, very presumably, a marathon of sexual assault. exposing children to abuse happening in their environment is a form of abuse itself. there’s also the WoG in which this is mentioned:

“Look at it this way - at the age that many boys are raising an eyebrow at boobs, family members were saying 'hey, here are all the boobs you could want...’ Interested in dick? ... Dad's not that into it but a sister can hook you up. At an age when many are just figuring out enough of the world to ask 'what's heroin?' or 'what's weed?' he was given heroin and weed and everything else that was theoretically obtainable and told to only indulge if it was someone else's body. At an age when many are saying 'sex must be awesome' he was given free reign.”

which is sexual abuse! it is in fact exceedingly sexually abusive for alec’s father & older siblings to go “hey, 10-13yo son/little brother, i notice you are Hitting Puberty! here’s a fucking tidal wave of sex and drugs, have at it.” he didn’t magically get the idea to commit acts of physical violence w/o grooming & coercion from his family, and the same goes for the sexual violence. it’s not a hard extrapolation to make that after 10 years of isolation and abuse he leaps on the chance for physical intimacy, for something that actually makes him feel good when good is a feeling he’s never really gotten to have before--and how would he have a frame of reference for this being bad when his childhood was one long march of his own autonomy being violated + constantly seeing other peoples autonomy violated?

alec did not leave the house as a kid. alec Wasn’t Even Thirteen. the people he assaulted were victims, but he’s inarguably not the person with primary culpability for the assault--that would be the family members significantly older than alec who directly groomed him into hypersexual behavior, kidnapped + brainwashed victims also significantly older than alec, shoved them at alec, and said “have at it, buddy.” (which he, considering it to be normal and desperate for any positive attention or emotion, immediately adopted as a coping mechanism.) it would be absurd not to regard alec as a victim in this circumstance as well, and the fact that the way he was victimized led to him hurting people doesn’t change that. he was a chronically abused and manipulated preteen--he couldn’t issue meaningful consent or exercise any real autonomy in his decision-making. his lack of emotional reaction to casually sharing the story isn’t a moral failure, it’s an indicator of how badly the abuse skewed his perception of what’s normal.

and despite All Of That, taylor’s immediate reaction is to judge his lack of guilt, shame, or regret. which isn’t a wholly irrational reaction from her by any means--it makes complete sense given who she is and what information she has. but it does mean that the judgement we’re given on alec in this moment is nearly entirely detached from the material reality of what happened & how that reality should reasonably be regarded.

3. i think i’m literally the only person i’ve ever seen point this out--the first category of person he lists off as having slept with is “cape groupies.” as in, fans of capes.

what kind of person do we suppose would be a fan of heartbreaker’s cult? what kind of person would have a thing for heartbreaker’s sexual abuse and mind control cult? the fact that he specifically mentions “cape groupies” means these were people who liked the heartbroken and were picked up by it voluntarily--what kind of person would want to sleep with one of heartbreaker’s barely-pubescent superpowered children?

yeah, that one sounds less like alec committing rape and more like heartbreaker providing access to his children to pedophiles w/ a Thing for the powers involved, presumably because it was a fantastic honeypot for people he could drain for money or otherwise use as a resource (which was his primary method of staying undercover & getting by). which alec parses as normal enough to casually slip into a random sentence.

alec’s childhood was not a lengthy tour of him committing sexual violence because he sucked, it was him being sexually abused, and a portion of that abuse included him being groomed to perpetuate it onto others. because that’s one of the Core Things about his character: he was a victim of grooming to perpetuate a cycle of abuse, he ran away from it at an impressively young age, and he spent the rest of his life making stumbling attempts to jerry-rig a distinct system of ethics & decision-making so that he wouldn’t be like his father.

no, the abuse he experienced & the way he responded to it wasn’t straight-forward or palatable. he’s not a stereotypical or idealized Good Victim--none of the traumatized teens in worm are. the specifics of what happened to him & what he did as a result are uncomfortable. he participated in hurting other people very badly. he still doesn’t really understand everything that was wrong with what happened. he doesn’t open himself up for pity or add caveats when discussing it to make it clear that he’s viewing his childhood the Right Way. he doesn’t feel or talk about it the way he’s “supposed” to. he doesn’t understand why or care that it upsets and disgusts people. the abuse left him with low to no empathy, and he’s not ashamed about admitting that.

and absolutely none of that changes that he’s still undeniably a victim, and if we saw any of the things that happened to him from the perspective of anyone involved, if we saw the abuse he experienced without the normalized lens he views it through or the villainizing lens taylor views it through--everyone would probably feel really fucking bad for him.

or in other words: alec vasil is a little boy whose life fucking sucks, and we all have to be nice to him, okay?

#worm #parahumans #alec vasil #GOOD LORD I BLINKED AND THERES.#checks notes.#t. Two Thousand Four Hundred Words In Here!#adding this one to the alecnalysis canon ig #anyway yeah we already saw the worst thing he did w Moral Culpability onscreen during his interlude #everything else is like. that's not really a moral failing so much as it is really sad #alec essays #alec vasil heritage posts

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fabaceous · 1 year

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Is there ever a hypothetical world where Jackie and Shauna’s situation is reversed (as in Shauna dies and Jackie makes it home)? And if so, how do you think Jackie would react and deal with it?

this is ANOTHER of my favorite cans of worms to open lately so THANK YOU for giving me an opportunity to talk about it!!

i was thinking about this mostly because i was thinking about how shauna's hallucinations of jackie provide us with such valuable information about shauna's thoughts/feelings/desires, how she thinks of jackie, how she thinks of herself (via jackie). hallucighost jackie i think sort of has two sides that are intertwined but serve different purposes - there's one side that's more straightforward and even sweet: it shows how shauna, in her grief and pain, wants to remember jackie (the fun, lighthearted moments; braiding her hair, joking about randy). the other side is more dark but gives us just as much if not more insight into shauna: she uses jackie as a mouthpiece for her own bad thoughts about herself. hallucighost jackie is the whip that shauna self-flagellates with. and she punishes herself, but she's also sort of repressing the fact that she even feels guilty (which maybe is why she needs jackie's "ghost" to guilt her, because she can't admit to herself that she feels guilty). and it all must hurt even more coming out of jackie's mouth - which, if you think about it, is probably why she does it (better fuel for her guilt complex).

ANYWAY, i digress (sort of). my point is, i've always wondered what we could learn from jackie hallucinating shauna. how would jackie want to remember shauna, but at the same time, how might the memory of shauna torture jackie?

if we do a simple swap and have shauna leave the cabin when jackie tells her to during their fight and then shauna freezes, that's one option. we get jackie feeling both immensely hurt by shauna's nearly inconceivable betrayal but, at the same time, feeling guilty for sending her out there. this could lead to some interesting hallucinated convos and, personally, i 100% think it could also lead to jackie doing shauna's makeup in the meat shed lmao. (and thats how you know they're made for each other!)

BUT ALSO. shauna's betrayal (i mean, combined with jackie losing her social status in the wilderness and having the other girls turn on her ofc) made jackie so depressed that she was unable to eat, and shauna dying on top of that would have the potential to completely destroy jackie's will to survive. it would be a big ask, at that point, to get jackie through to rescue. id say its pretty likely she dies of a broken heart, so to speak. like, just loses all her remaining will to live (because her will to live was literally hanging on by a thread and that thread was shauna). the only way i can imagine her surviving long enough to go home is if she has a complete and total break from reality and like, just sort of dissociates from the entire year-plus that follows. i think (? let me know if you agree bc this actually just came to me while writing this and im not sure if it holds up) that if the writers really sold it right, they could convince me that jackie basically goes catatonic and retreats into some fantasy world (one where shauna is around, of course!) for the rest of their time in the wilderness. not exactly the way shauna talked to jackie in the meat shed, because shauna knew she was hallucinating and was more or less able to walk away when she had other obligations. i think jackie would actually legitimately just lose her grip on reality, and succumbing to this would be the only way for her to survive. kind of like the bacchanal but about, like, everything.

the other scenario that occurred to me (and it's a pretty awful way for shauna to die and makes me really unhappy btw, so, sorry in advance) is what if shauna's abortion attempt had gone really, really wrong and she had gotten an infection and died from that? obviously jackie has no clue at this point about jeff/pregnancy/rutgers/etc so its pure unadulterated heartbreak. taissa could play a really interesting role in this situation as the only other person who knows this huge, earthshattering secret. would she keep it from jackie? i think that would be the prudent thing to do. losing shauna would already be almost too much for jackie to take, but she could maybe survive that by designating herself as the keeper of shauna's memory and she could probably convince herself she owes it to shauna to stay alive because if jackie dies then shauna is gone for good. but, as we've seen in canon, finding out that shauna betrayed her sends jackie into a really dark place where she doesnt have much will to live. i think she could plausibly survive with her sanity intact if one or the other happens (shauna betrays her OR shauna dies) but, as i discussed above, experiencing both would either break her sanity or effectively kill her.

and i suspect taissa is smart enough to realize this too, so if she wants to keep jackie alive she'll withhold this information (hide/burn the journals?) and let jackie cling to whatever romanticized image of shauna she comes up with. once they get back to the real world, who knows? taissa might tell her because she feels like jackie deserves the truth, jackie might read shauna's journals from before the crash in an attempt to feel close to her again and find out that way, or even jeff might tell her (worst case scenario IMO)... and im honestly not sure what jackie would do at that point, like, murder jeff maybe? (im joking but i actually am not sure how that whole situation would play out. maybe depression 2.0 but in the real world, but that's not as fun as murder.)

i haven't even said what i think jackie would hallucinate, so lets end with that. for shauna, it's primarily about self-flagellation and self-punishment, although it has some ability to soothe her as well, like when she imagines having fun with jackie.

for jackie i think its actually fairly simple: its obvious to all of us that what jackie wants most is shauna's authentic and full love, and my personal theory is that the main (and maybe even sole!) function of jackie's hallucinations would be escapism and wish-fulfillment, and imagining that shauna really did love her.

jackie doesn't have a self-destruction/guilt complex like shauna does. jackie, i think, would be able to just feel guilt in a more straightforward way. as well as anger! so in the scenario where shauna freezes after their fight, jackie would certainly be feeling a lot of guilt, but she doesn't need or want shauna to remind her, she could just apologize. and she's feeling a lot of anger, but she'd be able to say it to shauna's (hallucinated) face instead of putting it through some twisted alchemical process that turns it into something else. like, i think she actually does have a chance of getting closure in a way that shauna doesn't because shauna would never let herself get closure because then she'd have nothing left to fuel her guilt/self-destruction complex.

i think jackie would want closure for her immediate anger and guilt about shauna's death, and because she wants it, she'd be capable of getting it. but after that's dealt with (assuming she survives long enough to deal with it), or in a scenario where jackie doesn't know about shauna's betrayal/isn't responsible for her death, i really think (and i just made myself sooo miserable realizing this btw so you're welcome. or i'm sorry) that the thing that would cause jackie eternal and relentless pain for the rest of her life would be the immense regret and the feeling that she didn't love shauna enough, or didn't love her right. and her hallucinations of shauna would, by and large, simply be an outpouring of all the love she didn't get to show her in life (and imagining the reciprocation of that love that she always wished shauna would give her).

#can of worms: opened #worms: on the floor #are they good worms? you be the judge #also lol remember the ask about my thoughts on whether jackieshauna would ever be canon #that and this are two things that i have actually discussed extensively in the dms with rose @lottieurl recently #its kind of funny 😂 like u guys are asking THE most perfect questions #and they're things ive already been thinking about!#also hiding this reallllyyyy deep in the tags but #i may or may not be pondering exploring some of this through the medium of fanfic #will i ever actually turn it into anything publishable? who knwos #but its. percolating shall we say #RIGHT! well. this was fun!#ill end it here since this is already an ungodly amount of words #yellowjackets #yj asks

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