#but after S4 I was going to come into S5 salty anyway

[theerurishipper]

Serious question, I hope this doesn come across as salty. But Marinette, when S5 started, kinda hard core rebounded on Chat Noir cause she was afraid of her feelings for Adrien. Now after how hard S4 hammered down on Chat's love for Ladybug being to blame for every issue LadyNoir ever had and her going so far as getting seriously physical because of it in Glaciator 2, her then rebounding on Chat like that in S5 and not even bringing anything of the past up was... iffy for me, so I personally was glad that Adrien moved on and turned her down.

But my question in this is: if Marinette's feelings of affection for Chat Noir were this much blown out of proportion because of her actual fear of being with Adrien and ALSO her fear of being unloved, then how... long would the LadyNoir relationship even have lasted if Chat Noir had reacted the way she wanted him to?

I'm not saying she didn't develop genuine feelings for him at all, but I wouldn't exactly say she was truly in LOVE with him either? Several anons have already brought it up, she has yet to really treat him as if he truly exists underneath his mask? I suppose the celebrity crush from Elation is then indeed spot on?

What do you think would have happened if Ladybug had "gotten her way" with Chat Noir and LadyNoir had happened? If I see it realistically, I would say they would have been very happy for like a week or two before Marinette would have noticed that her romantic energy isn't matching Chat Noir's anymore (he of course would have noticed too and gotten worried), and that she, well.. rebounded on the one person she shouldn't have rebounded on and now.. the situation is REALLY fucked and she eventually has to break his heart again by having to owe up to only really having had these intense feelings for him because the boy she is actually in love with (Adrien) returned her feelings and that scared her.

Cause I think (or rather I HOPE) she would have been honest enough to tell him, even if it would have broken his heart and messed him up, and not kept a one-sided relationship alive by forcing herself which he would of course notice since Marinette ain't subtle, until it blows up in their faces even worse at a later point.

Picturing her having to nervously break it to Chat Noir that she's taking back wanting to be in a relationship with him again after around 2 weeks, but trying to reassure him anyway that she does love him, just not.. like THAT, and that she's sorry. Gosh imagine how hard Adrien/ Chat Noir would just emotionally shut down after that or even right in front of her, starring at her heartbroken, not being able to do anything else?

That is genuinely fucking me up just imagining it. I'm just so glad Adrien as Chat Noir shut that down right immediately. That would have resulted in nothing else but ripping his heart out again after season 4.

No, you're right. I feel like that's exactly what would have happened. She was fixating on Chat Noir so much because she was trying to push away her feelings for Adrien (like, the episode basically beats it into our heads with the subtlety of a sledgehammer). So, what you've said would be exactly what would go down. She'd realize that she'd just been using him as a way to get over this other boy, and she'd have to break his heart. So for once, I'm glad they did what they did and didn't take the worst possible route.

Of course, I wish it hadn't happened because Adrien suddenly decided the friend he'd gone to the movies (Glaciator 2) with and had a supposedly romantic dinner with at her home (Weredad) and taken to his date meant for Ladybug (Glaciator) is suddenly "just a fan" and I don't like how the writers made him fall for Marinette in literal seconds, but it almost makes it all seem better knowing that they could have done worse, which I wouldn't put past them.

Thank you for your ask!

[marimbles]

i feel like most of the ppl that have been in the fandom since day one or like since s2 (for years at this point) are the ones hurting the most rn bc, we got into the series with the promise of so much, like Chat and LB being a duo not hero and sidekick, and so much stuff like that and we invested so many years just to see it all change and go south so many times while newer fans get to binge watch the series in like a week a month tops? and they don't feel as dissapointed cause

a) they kinda knew what they were getting into

b) they just invested less time into it, and are willing to invest some more

i've been in this fandom for almost 7 years now and it's kinda exhausting watching it change direction so often and feel like not even the ml team knows where they are going or what they want with the series. I don't think it's salty, bc at heart I love miraculous, I love how it started and the ideas and promises it had but i can't help but feel mad/dissapointed with how things have been turning out lately idk if you relate to this, sorry for ranting in your inbox all i'm trying to say is, is valid for you to be mad at the s5 finale

Felt!!!! I have not been in the fandom nearly that long cause I started watching in the middle of s3 so it’s only been 4ish years for me. But still. I’ve actually been rewatching ml from the beginning lately and the difference between the early seasons and the later seasons is sort of painful lol. of course it’s only natural (and good!) that ml would move from a very basic monster-of-the-week episodic structure to a more developed plot, and the writers incorporated a lot of interesting conflicts over the course of the 5 seasons, but still the implication was that ladybug and chat noir’s partnership would always be central. the ladynoir breakdown in s4 was so hard for me to watch lol but it was certainly interesting and at the end I was hopeful again with how it came back to the two of them retrieving all the miraculous. And s5 did have a lot of great ladynoir. But then in the end their partnership felt extremely undermined—pretty much tossed aside—by how the finale unfolded. it left me feeling as confused as I was hurt, because it just doesn’t make sense to me. what was the point of 5 seasons of ladynoir partnership if they weren’t gonna be there together in the end?

anyway I don’t want to get in too deep here bc I have spoken At Length about this lol. just wanted to say thanks for sharing your thoughts, and I’m sorry you feel disappointed too, especially after so many years of fandom! 😭 hopefully s6 will be a fun ride for all of us no matter what is coming down the pipeline

[benwhlshaws]

ok so this is just a rambly overview over what has happened (sam wise) over the seasons so its maybe a little bit easier when keep blabbing @ u abt him 😂

i will try not to go on tangents ehhh 😬😬

sorry for the salty tone in advance

s1: ok sam is at college & lives with jess, dean comes to him after they havent seen each other in 2/3/4 years and says they gotta find john bc he didnt come home from a hunting trip, sam reluctantly says yes to one case but only if theyll be back in time for his law school interview (☹️ oh child), they do the case, sam comes home to jess burning on the ceiling like his mum, and him & dean hit the road to Find Dad and Kill The Demon.

during all this sam starts to get visions of bad things happening in the future and everyones Concerned, they eventually find dad but fail to kill the demon and dean gets fatally injured.

s2: john makes a deal with azazel (the demon that killed mary and jess) to save dean and Dies (& gets sent to hell), sam and dean are Sad (this is tangent worthy but i Won’t right now)

note worthy middle season things are that sam gets possessed by a demon that makes him do horrible stuff in one ep and in another the first girl he has sex with after jess turns out to be a werewolf and he has to shoot her (Fun!), oh and before john died he told dean he might have to kill sam if he starts going rogue (bc john knows abt sam’s mysterious gifts), dean eventually tells sam abt it and sam is Horrified obvs, season ends with azazel kidnapping sam and other kids with Gifts and sam finds out he was fed demon blood as a baby, sam gets killed and dies in deans arms, dean makes a crossroads deal to bring him back and gets one year of life left

oh and they open hells gates and john gets out and is just Normal Dead (yay) but also lots of dark stuff (not yay)

s3: sam is Upset and tries to find a way to get dean out of the deal, katie cassidy’s Ruby appears and says she can help, mid season stuff notable mention for an ep in which the trickster makes sam watch dean die every day for abt 100 days and then lets sam live 6 months without him just for Fun (dean doesnt remember any of this but sam does), anyway they fail at saving dean and sam has to watch him get ripped apart by hellhounds

s4: i mean u watched this but still 😂, dean crawls out of his grave, cas gets introduced, sam has been hanging out with ruby and starts drinking her demon blood bc it gives him the power to exorcise and kill demons without harming their vessel, also the demon lilith (she sent dean to hell so sam has a revenge boner for her too lbr) wants to start the apocalypse by breaking 66 seals and sam has the power to kill her (hot powerful babe that he is 🔥😏), the angels manipulate the living hell out of Everyone and LOTS OF FIGHTING HAPPENS. also dean finds out he broke the first seal when he started torturing in hell (everyone loves forgetting that but Ok) anyway

when dean finds out sam is addicted to demon blood, him and bobby lock him in the panic room without food or water or comforting words but :-))) (i’m not mad at all). then CASTIEL (another guilty party maybe?? HMMM??) lets sam out so he can find ruby and go kill lilith, which he does and ends up breaking the final seal and frees lucifer (which no one knew would happen except for the angels and ruby & dean was abt to do the same thing literally minutes before he found out the truth LOL)

this season is so crazy tangent worthy but i’ll save it for the Actual Post

s5: sams guilt and self hatred is HIIIIIGH and dean does nothing to help that and the rest of the world loves reminding him hes Evil incarnate as well :-) but ok,

dean finds out hes michael’s vessel and sam finds out hes lucifer’s, lots of archangel and other mid season stuff happens, season ends with sam saying yes to lucifer so he can jump into the pit to hell and trap him in there with him, therefore saving the world and all of humanity bc he is a hero thanks for listening to my Ted Talk

s6: dean has been living with lisa and her son ben for a year, it turns out sam is alive but Different, oh damn! he’s soulless! (and sassy sexy Fun 😎) and his (pure gentle) soul is still in hell with lucifer (💔😭)

dean and cas get his soul back but its so damaged (😔) that putting it back into sam would kill him so they ask death to build a wall between the two (no idea how this all rlly works its been a while since i watched this), soul is back in sam, forgot how the season ends but not that important anyway

s7: sam’s soul hell wall thing breaks and he’s dying and ill and sick and sad and everythings awful and he has hallucinations of lucifer telling him insidious horrible stuff and making him doubt reality and dean and everything and its very upsetting to me thanks,

umm forgot how the season REALLY ends but basically sam sees dean die (dean is actually in purgatory BUT SAM DOESNT KNOW THAT)

s8: my memories are hazy at best but i remember the Basic stuff,

its one year later and dean is out of purgatory and somehow him and sam find each other, sam has been living off the grid and found a gf and a dog after grieving dean, dean finds this to be the most heinous of crimes and Hates sam for it (bc u didnt look for me sam!!! and u had a cushy life while i was fighting for mine in purgatory!!! HOW DARE YOU BE HAPPY WITHOUT ME) and the guilt tripping is outta control this season woooohoooo,

anyway idr why but one of them has to take on The Trials (bc it does smth important for them i dont remember why lmao) and sam wants to do them,

stuff happens and they make sam sick and weak and Sad but they also purify his blood so hes desperate for them bc he’s felt awful and unclean all his life and its Upsetting. season ends with the final trial aka The Ultimate Sacrifice which means death and sam’s like yes! death! here for it 100%! and dean’s like no! why? and sam’s like lol i’m horrible and useless and a liability and all i do is let u down and i wanna die! :-)

dean convinces him not to (in a crap way imho BUT)

s9: sams fatally ill and just. wants. to dieeee and gadreel (an arch?angel) tells dean that he could possibly heal sam if he lets him possess sam and Dean Says ‘sam would rather die than ever let anything possess him again’ aaaand then says yes to gadreel :-)

and sam’s alright but has no clue how it happened and keeps losing time and is fucked up over it and dean lies to him and says everythings A Okay

oh and gadreel kills kevin with sam’s body and sam has nightmares abt it

this somehow resolves itself (not in a satisfying way for me of course but when do things ever) but i dont rlly have the deets for the rest of the season

s10-s12: honestly i basically dont know much, somehow dean has the so called mark of cain on his arm which makes him Awful and Horrible and he says things to sam that are Unbelievable and make me Furious

also at some point dean turns into a literal demon, not for super long though i think

sam is a strong kind and beautiful bean during all of this

mary is there somewhere too somehow and lucifer stuff and the list goes on but you know SHRUG

s13: lucifer’s baby is born! a nephilim! idk how it works age wise but hes in the body of a cute young man called jack and hes a cinnamon roll and sam treats him so fatherly and gently and with so much compassion and it makes me Feel and they have an adorable gorgeous relationship! also dean is a giant Dickwad to jack :-) fun!

oh omg lucifer gets killed in the finale and i fucking hope its final and forever bc I AM OVER IT!!!!

thats the VERY basic stuff and i apologise that its so long... im sorry ur indulging me how do u cope

also i love u and the only person cuter than sam is You 🤗💘💖💕💓