#ML Writing Salt

[miraculouslbcnreactions]

It's weird to expect lb to be able to read cn mind and called her a bad partner for it. But it's even weirder for lb to ignore cn WHEN HES OBVIOUSLY IN DISTRESS and not called her a bad partner for it because I think called her a bad partner for ignoring it is understandable and justified especially since she consider herself as his boss.

Every time I bring up this conflict, I try to make it clear that I don't think Ladybug was blameless, I just think Chat Noir's writing was worse. Let's walk through the problem to show what I mean.

Season four stars with Marinette extremely stressed by her new Guardian status. In Truth and Lies, the first episodes of the season, we get this:

Ladybug: Will you cut it out with the practical jokes? I could have really hurt you! Cat Noir:(answering while hanging by the yo-yo) M'lady, the only thing that really hurts me is when you make me go on patrol by myself. (sighs, relaxing his posture) I even missed your little angry pout. Ladybug: Sorry, Kitty Cat, I'm a bit over my head at the moment. (pulling him up) Cat Noir: I bet! "Guardian of the Miraculous", big name, big responsibility!

This is also the start to Chat Noir communicating poorly. In this episode, he's straight up told that Ladybug is in over her head and he never once asks how he can help. In fact, we even get him saying this when asked how he feels about the change:

Truth: Cat Noir, tell me what- (interupted by Ladybug throwing a present at Truth) Ladybug: (covering her parasol with foil) ...do you think about my new role as guardian! Cat Noir: If it doesn't change things between us, then I'm good with it!

So not a great start to the season. I know people focused on Adrien's terrible treatment of Kagami in these episodes, but this Ladynoir dynamic was actually what rang alarm bells for me. I kept waiting for Chat Noir to offer his support since it was really, really obvious that Ladybug was in over her head since she was late to patrols, the last season literally ended with her losing her mentor figure, and, you know, she straight up told him that was what was going on?

The next episode is Gang of Secrets in which we see Marinette out her identity to Alya. I get why she did this, she needed support and her partner doesn't seem interested in giving it, but she can't say that for certain because she never asked him directly and she should have. Trusting Chat Noir over Alya would have allowed Ladynette to maintain the security of her secret identity - a thing she claimed was more important than ever - and to honor their partnership. At the very least, she should have told Chat Noir that Rena Rouge was now a full time holder so that he could account for that in battle and to minimize the fallout by owning up to her mistake asap. The longer a lie goes on, the worse the truth will hurt.

To Ladybug's credit, she does eventually acknowledge her mistake after the Scarabella incident:

Ladybug: You... must've been pretty surprised to discover there was another holder! (Silence. She sits beside Cat Noir.) Ladybug: I'm really sorry, Cat Noir. I should've told you. I mean, if I found out that you told someone about your secret identity, I'd... probably be upset, too. I'm really sorry I hurt your feelings.

This is a decent apology. She doesn't try to absolve herself of wrong doing. Instead, she acknowledges that what she did would hurt her, too, if the shoe were on the other foot. The only thing she loses points on is the fact that she doesn't tell him about Rena Furtive.

However, instead of agreeing with her and telling her that she has hurt him, Chat Noir says that she did nothing wrong and never once brings up how their weakened partnership is bothering him:

Cat Noir: You didn't hurt my feelings. You did everything right. Paris will always need a Ladybug superhero to watch over her. It's just... I realized that if one day that hero wasn't you, m'lady, since we don't know each other's identities, that means... I'd never see you again. Ever. And now, I just don't know if I can bear it.

This is the thing that I hate about this arc. The reason why I say Ladybug is blamed for not reading his mind. Especially because, three episodes later, we get Rocketear, which gives us this:

Cat Noir: Everyone has doubts now and then, (looks down) even me... Ladybug: Is everything okay, Cat Noir? Cat Noir: Yeah, yeah. (prepare his fist) Pound it! Ladybug: (fistbumps) Pound it!

Rocketear is the episode where Nino outs that he and Alya know each other's identities while acting like Ladybug said identities weren't a big deal even though that is very much not what happened. You'd think that Chat Noir would want to know the full story, but instead he just lies and says that everything is fine.

So we have two situations where the show allowed Ladybug to give Chat Noir a chance for clear and open communication and both times he turns her down.

What's worse is that he clearly starts making up stories in his head, leading to Kuro Neko, which starts with Adrien avoiding a fight on purpose as some sort of shit test. He then gets upset when Ladybug... doesn't lament his absence on national TV?

Clara: (from TV) By the way, where's Cat Noir? You've saved Paris without him quite a few times recently. Are you two at odds with each other? Carapace, Pegasus, Vesperia and Pigella: (from TV) Pound it! Ladybug: (from TV) Of course not, it's just that... umm, he's a partner like any other! The most important is to pick the best superheroes for each mission, with or without Cat Noir. No matter what, we've got a great team and we'll always be here to save Paris. (Adrien is shocked.) Adrien: (turns off the TV and sighs) "A partner like any other..."

Dude, what did you want her to do here? Complain that you flaked on her? Make Paris feel less safe by saying she doesn't know where you are? Imply that the fight was barely won without you? What are you doing? Plagg, you are completely failing as a mentor right now.

The shit test continues as Chat Noir goes to meet up with Ladybug now that the battle is over, arriving just as Ladybug has finished instructing the team on what to do:

Ladybug: Come on, guys! Hurry up before you all detransform. I'll meet you at rendezvous points. (The heroes jump away in different directions, and Ladybug starts typing something on her Yo-yo.) Cat Noir: Hey! Meow are you, m'lady? Ladybug: Great, thanks, but I gotta go retrieve all these Miraculous. Cat Noir: I could lend you a paw to help save time. Ladybug: Thanks, kitty cat, but it's a guardian's job to do it. Cat Noir: I know who some of them are, remember? I was there when you first gave them their Miraculous! Ladybug: You don't even know where their rendezvous points are, I don't have time to— Cat Noir: Playing cat and mouse is my forte, you know— Ladybug: (yelling) If you wanna save me time, stop wasting it in the first place! (Cat Noir gasps. As Ladybug swings away, Cat Noir clenches his fist.) Cat Noir: And take my Miraculous back when you're done!

So Ladybug doesn't publicly chastise Chat Noir for missing the battle and rejects an offer to help because of very legitimate timing concerns, leading to Chat Noir quitting because she failed his stupid, petty, childish tests. Realistic writing? Yes. Writing that paints Ladybug as the one in the wrong? No.

Going into this episode, Ladybug has no idea that things are messed up between them even though she has actually kept communication lines open. She asks him if things are okay, but he lies. And when he's ready to quit? He plays stupid games and wins a stupid prize. It's really not shocking that the next scene sees Ladybug totally baffled by what just happened:

Plagg: For a while now, you've been neglecting this camembert— I mean Cat Noir, and going on adventures with the all other cheeses! Ladybug: But he should be happy about it, it gives him more time off. Plagg: Cat Noir doesn't wanna have time off, Ladybug! He is in love with you! And your persistent calling on all the other heroes has broken his heart.

And how is she supposed to know that, Plagg? Was she supposed to assume that her partner was lying when he said he was fine? Because she did ask and he said that nothing was wrong. But something was wrong and it lead him to build up a story in his head, reading nonexistent intent into her actions, all of which is toxic and unhealthy communication.

I cannot stress how common this shit is. I've seen it so many times and I will own that I've done it in the past and wound up getting no support when I needed it because I'd directly told people I didn't and they committed the heinous crime of... believing me.

Here's the other thing, there are times when I'm in distress and legitimately don't want or need help. Times when I just need to be alone for a bit. So if someone asks me if I'm okay during those times, I'm probably just going to say, "Yeah, I just need a people break" or something like that. That's why the Scarabella scene is so bad. Ladybug can see that Chat Noir is in distress and he gives her a fully plausible answer: I'm not upset with you, I'm just saddened by the idea of losing you. And she believes him because why wouldn't she?

Same goes for Rocketear. It's reasonable for Ladybug to assume that Chat Noir is just shaken by the fight. She has no idea about the bombshell that Nino dropped right before the fight. She doesn't even know that Nino and Chat Noir are actually close friends, making this fight a lot more devastating than it looks at face value. Her actions here are not objectively wrong. They're only wrong if you know the whole story, including Adrien's needs. Things that she cannot know unless Chat Noir uses his words to tell her things.

I cannot over stress how much season four is a textbook example of denying yourself support because you cannot communicate your own needs. Is it an understandable character flaw for a character with Adrien's background to have? Yes. Absolutely. 100%. But it's still a character flaw. This season desperately needed an arc about Adrien learning to tell people what's wrong. Not because he's the only one in the wrong here, but because things cannot get better when Ladybug has no idea that she's hurting him. (Nino has no idea either, but let's keep our focus on Ladybug.)

One of the most important things you can do for your own mental well being is to dismiss the idea that your needs are the same as everyone else's. Everyone needs different amounts of attention and values different behavior based on things like their upbringing and life events.

I get the feeling that I'm wired pretty similar to Marinette. At least, it influences how I write her because I can go months without talking to my best friends and still call them my best friends, a trait we all share because two of use are artsy introverts and two of us are moms to young kids, which allows for very little free time. Meanwhile, my SO and his best friend spend hours on the phone almost every week. I swear that those two go into withdrawal if they don't talk at least once every seven days. If months went by without them talking? Something would be very wrong, but the exact same time gap isn't even remotely concerning when it comes to my friends. It's something my SO and I had to figure out when we got together because I need a lot less attention than he does. But we communicated and found a balance that we continue to work to communicate about so that he doesn't feel neglected and I don't feel overwhelmed by too little me time.

What I'm trying to say is Marinette wasn't horribly wrong for assuming that Chat Noir was telling her the truth or that he liked having a larger team so he had less responsibility. Those are reasonable assumptions. Especially since he never actually indicated that he wanted more responsibility until he was ready to quit and decided to shit test her by pushing for more to do when she was stressed and on a timer.

I do think that she should have offered it to him before that or - at the very least - the show should have clearly stated why she didn't do that since it apparently had nothing to do with Chat Blanc trauma like we all thought it did. I'm not saying that she's blameless or perfect or that there weren't things she could have done better. It's just really hard for me to look at Chat Noir's behavior in season four and go, "Oh yeah, he's the injured party here. Ladybug holds all the blame and did everything wrong." She did many things wrong, but generally speaking, she owned her faults and tried to keep communication channels open. Chat Noir chose to ignore those chances to talk or otherwise try to express his needs in a clear and understandable manner.

We'll end with one final point to drive this home: You said that she's his boss. Well, if my boss asked me, "is everything okay with the project?" and I said, "yes" while freaking out about the upcoming deadline that I'm probably going to miss because he's given me too much work, the issue is not all on my boss. It's on both of us. Him for overloading me and me for not telling him I'm overloaded. You could even argue that it's mostly on me because I'm the only one who can properly gauge my own ability to do a given workload. As soon as it was too much, I should have said something. And if I don't feel like my boss is approachable? Then I should quit. But that isn't the situation I'm in and it doesn't appear to be the one that Chat Noir was in, either. He wanted to stay part of the team, he just totally failed to tell Ladybug how being on the team was making him feel.

People magically knowing what you need and how you feel is a myth. I promise you, most people in this world do not want to cause you pain, but if you cannot clearly express when someone is causing you pain, then you will continue to get hurt by people who would be very happy to not hurt you if they actually knew that their actions were causing you pain.

[m3nt4llyr4v3d]

I’ll bet $20 that the entirety of France will instantly forgive Ladybug for lying to their faces about the identity Hawkmoth, without question, surely not a single person will accuse her of protecting HM, nahhhh

[motherofplatypus]

The funniest thing about thomas and co watching the finale and explaining stuffs while they're at it is that they made it worse by a long shot. It's like beating a dead bush with a dead horse while digging their own graves.

Explain that Mari is actually aware that Gabe is Monarch? Doesn't explain why she's going to his house without Chat to beat his ass.

Jokingly saying that Jagged's crocodile is important to the fight? Nice joke, but care to explain where this whole Kung Fu trio and pet plot came from?

Said that they had planned that Chat won't be in the final fight with Hawkmoth since the beginning? Good job, his character turned out has always been this worthless.

It was Amelie at the end and Emelie stayed dead? Good to know the last 8 years of her irrelevance actually became irrelevant.

Said it was actually Marinette's win? Of course when the villain finally achieved their goal it is the hero's victory.

They actually believe that Gabe is a hero? Hooray, so glad they actually believe that the terrorist who has no qualms nor remorse for physically and mentally beating his own son that he enslaved for his own business is a hero.

And that's not including how they don't explain how people become Miraculized despite it not being akumatization, or how Lila isn't affected by the nightmare, or why Gabe unified Tikki and Plagg in Deflagration instead of making the wish despite it doesn't requires him to unify them.

And those were from two episodes alone. Imagine if they had to explain other episodes, like Evolution and Derision. How deep can they dig their own grave?

[nixthelapin]

I think the writers totally missed out on using Alya and Lila as foils for both being foxes, but using the power of illusion and misdirection in very different ways.

Lila: using emotions and threats to set a trap for LB (and CN, but she’s got that personal grudge)

Vs. Alya: using her intelligence/cunning to get out of a trap (and get LB out too)

And just in general being very different people:

Lila’s entire character is that she’s a liar who will do anything to avoid the truth, while Alya is the investigative reporter who uncovers truth.

Lila as someone who hates and is out to get both Marinette and LB vs. Alya who loves and supports both

I just think they could’ve done a lot more with this, especially since they made both girls a fox character, specifically surrounding the Fox Miraculous (I know Lila never had the real one, but she did pretend to for her akumatization)- that’s not nothing!

But nah, instead Alya just becomes brain dead around Lila, believes all her lies without question (no matter how stupid or nonsensical), and doubts everything her best friend tells her when it comes to said lies. Wasted potential.

[theerurishipper]

Something I've noticed is that the show goes out of its way to portray Adrien's trauma as romantic.

In Kuro Neko, Adrien is exhibiting a trauma response wherein he invalidates his own feelings and tries to be whoever the other person wants him to be, and Catwalker is explicitly based on the mask Adrien puts on to please his abuser, which is also the persona Ladybug develops an instant crush on. What the show tells us, however, is that Adrien as Catwalker telling Ladybug that it's his own fault for being sensitive because he was hurt by her actions and following that up by promising to take care of her is romantic and wonderful.

In Strikeback, Adrien is once again downplaying his feelings and hurt in order to come to Ladybug's support because she needs him. He is once again invalidating his own hurt and absolving her of all blame. What the show tells us is that it's so romantic that Adrien was willing to push away his hurt feelings and come to her aid like a loyal partner even though she never apologized to him or promised to change her behavior.

In Protection, Adrien's tendency to want to be perfect for everybody and cater to their needs is depicted on screen, with him assuming the full blame for Marinette's confidence issues. He has a whole conversation with Kagami about how he needs to change himself for her. What the show tells us is that Adrien is so romantic and so sweet for essentially assuming blame for Marinette's inability to tell him her feelings and saying that he has to be the one to change and cater to her needs.

In Collusion, Adrien's reacting to his father sending him to London by saying "Marinette and I will last forever," is him clinging to the very little good that is going on in his life. It is him once again centering his identity around this girl and his relationship with her because he has never been allowed to be his own person. What the show tells us is that "Adrien loves Marinette so much uwu."

In Confrontation, Adrien writing "All I know is that I love Marinette Dupain Cheng," is him once more centering his whole life around his girlfriend because he has been conditioned into defining himself around other people because he has never been allowed to an individual in his own right. What the show tells us again is that Adrien loves Marinette so, so much, you guyz.

In Conformation (credit to this post by @youremarvelous), Adrien telling Plagg he's angry at himself for falling short of Marinette's love is also him downplaying his own feelings and placing more importance on her, and him believing that he has fallen short of her love stems from him belief that he has to earn love. He's just shifted from defining himself based on Gabriel's wishes to defining himself based on Marinette's wishes. What the show tells us is that Adrien is such a good boyfriend for wanting to be perfect for Marinette.

The discrepancy between what has been portrayed and what the show wants us to think is concerning, to say the least.

[haru-rain]

Did the writers of Miraculous Ladybug ever wonder why Chloe is more loved by fans than Lila when they're both "mean" ?

The truth is, the writers only have themselves to blame.

You showed us a vulnerable Chloé. And every time you put her in the spotlight, even when she's acting mean, she has such funny lines that we just want to laugh.

Lila, on the other hand, is never around and when she is, she has such plot armor that you just want to hate her. It's so frustrating to see that everything always works out for her. Even when things don't go her way from the start, they always end up going her way. We can also add to this that nothing cultivates in us empathy for Lila.

[jennrypan]

Everyone always goes on about how Adrien and Mylene aren't assholes despite experiencing trauma

But

Surprise, surprise!! People react differently to trauma!

YOU may wanna be a better person, YOU may never wanna be mean.

But not everyone comes out of trauma all nice and kind.

Obviously, and I can't stress this enough cuz sometimes people CANT FUCKING READ. This doesn't mean be a bully, this isn't excusing Chloe. She's a fucking bully and an asshole. We KNOW that.

But holy shit. Not everyone wants to be a good person, sometimes when you feel shitty you wanna lash out and take it out on everyone. Is it right? FUCK NO. But it happens.

It doesn't make then evil, (especially when you're fucking 14 and you get compared to a literal grown terrorist, bffr)

Also. Marinette told Chloe in order for her shitty mom to love her she had to act like her..no ones gonna talk about that stupid ass evidence?? Just. God damn.

Also. Mylenes mom abandoning her shouldn't be compared to Chloes mom abandoning her to have a whole other child and leaving Chloe with a spineless, useless father who gave her EVERYTHING she wanted and never taught her how to act cuz he sucks.

Adrien was conditioned to act properly and do everything he's told or he'll get his freedom or anything he loves takin away, and despite that he still sees the good in people, that's great!!

Chloe was raised being handing everything with no consequences. They can't be comparable!

Chloe definitely deserves to be called out for bullying but she's not worst than all the shitty parents or terrorists in this show idc

[eddo-tensei]

This will never not make me laugh

In case you don't know what this is, this is all the sightings of Socqueline Wang in Season 5. Aside from her debut, she only had like two cameos before her big moment in Derision's flashback where she turned out to be this super important figure in Marinette's life...and then she just disappears from the season altogether after the flashback is over. Right after we find out how she got suspended, she just stops showing up for the rest of the season. She doesn't even appear in the present of the same episode or even cameo in the background in episodes afterwards. She's just gone. It's like after they showed her getting suspended and this epic farewell scene between her and Marinette where she rips off the Majesta speech from Alya (Because why not steal one more thing from Alya?), they just treat it as though she isn't in Paris anymore even though we saw her two episodes ago still helping her friends. All this does is serve to prove that Socqueline's entire character is just to provide tragedy for Marinette's backstory and nothing else. I can't even say this is salt for Socqueline because this feels like the writers throwing her out as soon as she apparently fulfilled her purpose in showing Marinette having a big sad because of mean old Chloe. She doesn't even appear in the background of Revolution in protest of Chloe, which you think she would considering how much she hated Chloe. It's an instance of them just creating a disposable character purely just to prove a point and instead of keeping her in the cast, they just throw her into the bin because she doesn't serve a purpose anymore. More people hate Chloe now and that's all that matters to the writers. Screw actually developing this character who's supposedly a great figure in one of our main character's lives. As far as the writers are concerned, she already fulfilled her purpose in the narrative and that's infuriating to me because of how utterly manipulative it all comes across as.

Is this irrational? Am I too upset at the treatment of what's basically a minor character in this show? You be the judge.

[pythagoras180]

[sophieabigail2021]

Don't you just love how he says this right after admitting to Marinette that he tried to akumatized her multiple times,saying that he doesn't give a shit about the people he endangered,and when Marinette tried to tell him there's another solution he immediately immobilized her and took the miraculous to make the wish and doesn't give a crap about Mari telling him to stop

And even after ALL THAT,this guy gets treated as a hero by everyone in Paris,Wow what a great well written main villain writers/s

What really angers me the most is how Marinette just accepted Gabriel's garbage promise about not telling his son about anything Hawkmoth related and only tell him about the ✨positives✨ (which my guy you treated your son like crap everyday even with your Nice!Gabe act,like you forced your son to be in a relationship with his ex girlfriend and locked him in an empty room alone in London,this is just fucked up),but also lying to everyone that Gabriel is a hero who saved everyone and it's just uuuuggghhhhhh

Also the fact that Emilie,Nathalie,Felix and Kagami don't even bother to reveal to Adrien about his Dad or the fact that he's a SentiKid makes my blood boil,seriously what a bunch of assholes

Also ALSO love how the miracuclass went from "Boo fuck you Gabriel you're a shit father" to them having no issue celebrating Gabriel as hero????,like does nobody in Paris be a little suspicious about Gabriel saving the day or is everyone losing their braincells even when Lila Cerise Iris isn't around

Anyway in conclusion this show is pure irredeemable garbage and this Season finally proves it with it's shit ending

[miraculouslbcnreactions]

About the Adrienette relationship and how Adrien became the therapist trophy bf… idk if I can explain my thoughts right, but I feel like this is the result of a bigger issue with where the writer’s priorities lie regarding Adrien‘s obstacles?

Adrien‘s issues with his family are kind of not that important, or at least don’t affect him that much. When Gabriel does something shitty like not letting Adrien leave the house, it either gets resolved by the end of the episode or it‘s forgotten about. Gabriel‘s abuse feels to me more like a plot device to remove Adrien from the plot until the akuma shows up than a serious issue that affects Adrien mental being and needs to be resolved with therapy and Gabriel loosing custody over him. Adrien almost never talks bad about his dad, it‘s always „oh he‘s just overprotective of me“ or something. It’s like Adrien doesn’t recognize how crappy Gabe is, which does make sense for an abuse victim, but I don’t feel like the show frames this opinion as wrong.

Meanwhile in his relationship with LB, he takes everything super personal. He acts mean and entitled when she rejects his advances (even though he comes around in the end… only to try again a few episodes later) and he gets very angsty about LB… having more than one superhero friend. I know I sound dismissive, mostly because I though the whole arc sucked, but I do understand that it happened because Adrichat has abandonment issues. It makes sense why he feels that way. And he goes off to her in the s4 finale. So suddenly he can realize when he‘s treated badly in a relationship and talk about it? It‘s not like Lb treated him worse than Gabe, not even close!!

Adrien‘s main source of problems is his relationship with Maribug. This gets resolved in s4 on the Ladynoir side, and then in s5 Adriens biggest goal is resolving the Adrienette side, aka getting with a traumatized Marinette, aka the whole point of the show and probably the writer‘s only true priority. And when Adrien actually has a problem with his dad, it‘s only in the context of Gabe trying to sabotage the relationship, because who cares that he‘s an abusive asshole regardless of Adrien‘s relationship status? We need to save the relationship you guys!!

I guess what I‘m trying to say is that Adrien is the therapist in the relationship because (according to the writers), he doesn‘t really have problems. His only problems are when things are obstacles to his relationship with Marinette, which are her trauma and in the second half of s5 Gabriel being a dick to Mari. Other than that? Nathalie dying was a little important for like two minues, Emilie doesn‘t get brought up by Adrien in s5 at all, Gabriel dying and Adrien literally becoming an orphan is cool. None of these things have any influence on Adrienette, so they don‘t bother him and he doesn‘t need to talk to anyone about it or get therapy.

Love conquers all !!

So, confession time: I often tone Gabriel's abuse down when I write him specifically because of a lot of what you brought up (there's also the fact that it makes for a more compelling story if Gabriel's behavior is actually driven by grief and not just how he's always been, but let's not get into that). I've always considered it glaringly obvious that the writer's never meant for Gabriel to come across anywhere near as controlling and abusive as he's actually written. It really is just a plot device even though there are episodes that would have played far better if Gabriel had been less controlling.

For example, Glaciator would have been a far stronger episode if Adrien chose to not go see his friends in order to wait around for Ladybug because then he'd be super clearly in the wrong for flaking on a commitment and the lesson could be "don't put romance above your friends."

As-is, I have no idea what the moral of that episode is supposed to be because Maribug did nothing wrong outside of being a little rude to the ice cream guy, but Chat Noir also isn't really in the wrong because he was banned from going out as Adrien. There's a solid argument to be made for not wanting to risk punishment by going to a very public location with his friends. In episodes like this, it really felt like Gabriel's controlling, unreasonable nature wasn't being used to develop his character, but as a way to absolve Adrien of blame.

Along similar lines, the Adrigami plot in season five feels less like a thing that was included to make Gabriel feel evil and more like the writers desperately padding things out because Gabriel actually does very little to keep Adrien and Marinette apart. He could have pulled Adrien from school! He could have demanded Nathalie give back Adrien's ring so that his commands stuck! He could have interrupted the video game date and banned Marinette from the house. But he does none of that because he's not actually being controlling as a character thing. He's doing it so that the writers can add cheap drama to the Adrienette plot.

The clearest evidence of this is the wacky season five ending. That's not an ending you give to a person you consider abusive and evil beyond all hope of redemption even though that's arguably who Gabriel was by the end of season five. The writers are either ignorant to just how abusive he actually was or they know that he got pretty bad as the seasons went on, but they didn't want to change their planned ending so we got the ending they wrote when the show had less seasons and they'd done less to make Gabriel abusive.

It's just another case of that inconsistent characterization problem I've discussed before. By letting Gabriel be whatever they needed him to be for a given plot idea to work, they created a monster and made Adrien into a victim, but that's pretty clearly not the dynamic they actually wanted to write, so it all comes across as strange, wacky, and insensitive.

This is getting long, but I'll end by noting that I fully agree on the Maribug stuff. The conflicts they give Chat Noir and Ladybug make me super uncomfortable because they tend to center around her being a bad partner for... not reading his mind. Which is a massive personal pet peeve because so many people do this shit (myself included) and it's wildly unhealthy. Not saying she behaved perfectly or that this isn't an understandable flaw to give a character like Chatdrien, but it is a flaw and the show fails to treat it as such. It especially annoys me because it's a terrible conflict to give two people who are trying to keep the world safe. I've mentioned this before, but a big reason why superhero shows aimed at kids tend to develop both the civilian and superhero sides is so that the civilian side can focus on interpersonal conflicts and learn valuable life lessons, many of which will then be applied on the superhero side. Miraculous really needed to use this tool to help Adrien learn to communicate his very valid feelings. It's just bad writing choice after bad writing choice, adding up to a mess of a show no matter how you look at it.

Quick side note: I have nothing against people writing Gabriel as abusive as the show often makes him. I hope I've made it clear that I fully agree with that take, it's just not the take I like to use in my own stuff because it doesn't suit the kind of stories I enjoy telling. I prefer the happy family broken by Emilie's death route that the show pretty clearly wanted, but failed to write.

[m3nt4llyr4v3d]

Miraculous and Redemption

You know, I think I understand what my issue is with this show’s stance on redemption. It’s not specifically who gets the redemption, even the hypocrisy of who does or doesn’t get redemption/forgiven is only one part of the issue.

It’s specifically how they treat the characters who don’t get redemption.

I have seen, in media, where terrible characters who’ve done terrible things get a redemption, and the mean characters, who are just mean, don’t change at all. That’s fine! People are complex, some change and some don’t, some have done horrible things and some are just school yard bullies. It’s fine to showcase this, I mean hell, in the Owl House, Boscha was still an asshole in season 2, and this was past the point that characters like Lilith were forgiven (Lilith isn’t really terrible in Season 1, she just has done a lot worse than Boscha)

Miraculous’s massive issue with this, however, is that the narrative/the authors treats those mean characters as worse than those characters who’ve done horrible things.

I mean, what other media has one of the creators say that some high school bully is comparable to Trump when her literal rich, corrupt, politician father is right fucking there?

Usually the media where a terrible person is redeemed and the mean character isn’t doesn’t treat it as a moral issue. It’s not “oh well this person can’t change” or “oh this person is even worse!” It’s usually “they’re mean, and that’s annoying, but oh well”. That media never treats the character like Satan incarnate, or treats their meanness compared to actual villainy as a moral issue. When characters are around them, they aren’t treating that mean character as literal scum compared to the former villain, the narrative doesn’t treat them as more than an annoyance or, for lack of better words, “small fry”. I mean, while Owl House acknowledged that Boscha was still a prick in season 2, they didn’t act like she was worse than Belos.

Miraculous treats Chloe and Lila, some petty, mean teenagers, as the literal devil compared to other characters. Lila is a master manipulator who somehow convinced 3 people she’s their daughter and has a trillion disguises! It doesn’t matter that that twist came out of nowhere, and it makes it a little weird that this teenager has multiple disguises that she uses around the city apparently, one where she looks like a 20 year old, making people theorize she’s an adult because how on earth is she smart enough or resourceful enough to do this. Chloe is a villain comparable to Gabe, even when she was a hero! Her backstory doesn’t justify any of her actions, but for literally everyone else, we are going to justify their actions! If they don’t do that, they’ll just sweep their actions under the rug completely! It doesn’t matter that she’s consistently being manipulated by the fully grown adults around her, she’s terrible don’t think about it! She neglected her father somehow (???????????????????) so it’s fully justified to send her off with her abusive mother! We aren’t even going to acknowledge that Andre literally had a part in raising her and her turning out this way, because somehow he did no wrong! And what sucks is that it’s succeeding at making those characters appear that way, because some fans are completely genuine when they say that Gabriel is more sympathetic than them. I mean, if you frequent the Reddit (which you absolutely shouldn’t, one way or another it will melt your brain), you’ll consistently see character rankings with Gabriel, Lila, Tomoe, and Chloe in the same category. Somehow the show put the bullies in the same categories as the literal abusive terrorist and his helper in these people’s eyes. You will constantly see these literal teenagers be put on the same category as adults who have done infinitely worse. Even Andre, who is a corrupt politician and terrible role model and literally RAISED CHLOE… is “woobified” by some fans, even going as far to say that Chloe abused him! Nevermind how that would even be possible when she was like, 5-7 when her mom left! I can’t point my fingers at the fans for this though, because the show goes out of its way to place all of its sympathy on the adults, even when they don’t deserve it, EVEN WHEN THE PAST WRITING LITERALLY PAINTS THEIR ACTIONS AS BAD

(It also doesn’t help that the fully grown adult’s actions are all forgiven but god forbid you’re terrible as a teenager, then you’ll get sent off to live with your verbally abusive mother while your basically deadbeat father adopts your half sister literally right after wiping his hands of you)

I will talk about the hypocrisy in redemption at some point, and how bias and forgiveness is handled, but godDAMN, this sucks

[motherofplatypus]

An idea that i don't see people talk about is Chloe being Adrien's sister figure. She had mommy issue earlier than Adrien, then when Emilie was dead, she felt unconscious responsibility to protect and take care of him. All of her affections are all platonic. That's why she hates when Adrien having new friends, bcs they took him away from her. Like, imagine if Chloe has brother complex.

I swear there's a lot that can be explored from their relationship if the writers aren't cementing themselves in "Make everything about Adrienette" and "Adrien is a damsel in distress".

Sigh, another day another wasted potential the show had.

[xwonderlandresidentx]

Just had someone tell me that Marinette telling Chloe and Audrey that they should bond over being toxic and entitled was okay because she was being sarcastic, and I just gotta say..... no? that doesn't make it better??

Thankfully this person was pretty civil, and open to having an actual conversation about that scene, and by the end of it we came to agree on some things.

But I still wanna blog about it, because I have a lot of feelings.

Even if Marinette was saying it to be ironic, which still isn't an interpretation that I'm fully on board with, but for the sake of argument, even if she was, that's still a horrible thing to say given the circumstances!

Marinette doesn't have to like Chloe, but if her first reaction to seeing a girl her age on the verge of tears while she asks her mother "Why don't you love me?" is to have a laugh and say "Well, you both suck, so you should be glad to be stuck together!" then that is terrible, and petty, and vicious!

If for some reason you wanna have Marinette banter with Chloe about it, at least wait until she isn't in the most vulnerable position possible, baring her deepest trauma while confronting her abuser.

Either way you slice it, Marinette had no right to say what she did! She was either giving harmful advice that she wasn't qualified to give, or she was being downright cruel.

[theerurishipper]

Anyway, I had a discussion a while back about how Adrien wasn't abused before Emilie's death and I gotta say I disagree, but I'm feeling too lazy to write a whole post about it so here are some bullet points.

Adrien has no friends except for Chloe. I wonder why the boy who is so desperate for emotional connections and friendships would not want to or try to make friends for 13 years except for one girl who is conveniently the daughter of the mayor of Paris unless his parents didn't let him.

Gabriel canonically only gave Adrien a stupid pen for three years (i.e. during the time Emilie was alive) and doesn't that paint a picture of a loving and attentive father. Adrien has also never had a birthday party before.

Adrien's lack of awareness of social cues doesn't make it seem like he is someone who was allowed to socialize like children normally are, and speaks to a lifelong isolation as opposed to it just starting after Emilie died.

Adrien doesn't act like someone who is used to unconditional love and had it stripped away from him. Never does he express confusion over his father's sudden turn from being loving to coldness, not once does he indicate that his father used to act way differently. And yes, Emilie being nice and loving is something that can coexist with her being a bad parent who at best simply allowed Gabriel to isolate Adrien from the world and at worst actively contributed. Adrien only ever mentions that she was nice, not that she ever disagreed with his father on how to raise him.

Please do correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think a child who is used to being assured of his own worth and loved so unconditionally for 13 years would so completely internalize the contradictory idea that he has to earn love by being whatever the other person wants him to be in the span of less than a year without any trouble and with no doubts or confusion at all as to why everything is so different from before. The practiced way he wears his masks around others without once suggesting that it was different before at some point indicates that this has been the norm for him. And not once does he seem to expect anything different from anyone as opposed to just Gabriel. You would expect that someone who is used to being unconditionally loved would just expect that and view his father as an exception to the rule, but that's not the case.

To continue from the previous point, Adrien doesn't react to being shown unconditional love like someone who has experienced the feeling before would. Not once does he bemoan the loss of his supposed better treatment prior to Emilie's death. He acts genuinely surprised and shocked when Gabriel is nice to him, like he's never experienced it before. The way he clings to Ladybug's unconditional support like it's the best thing he's ever had doesn't speak of someone who was raised with unconditional love in abundance. He genuinely does not know how to not put up a front all the time in front of everyone because he believes that is what everyone expects of him, which is something that he probably shouldn't think if he spent 13 years of his life being loved and supported unconditionally and being able to be himself.

As evidence for this being a lifelong thing and not just something that started after Emilie died, consider the fact that Adrien's childhood dream is to be whatever his parents wanted him to be. Idk about y'all but the fact that this child had no dreams and desires of his own except to be his parents' little doll says a lot about how he was raised, and only proves that he's never really seen himself as someone who gets to have his own desires outside of pleasing his parents and having to earn their love even as a child, proving my point that this isn't something that started less than a year ago.

No, but Wishmaker really did shit all over the "Adrien's life only became bad after Emilie's death" argument huh. I sincerely question why anyone thinks that Emilie wasn't abusive after watching that episode.

And idk, the fact that he was constantly mind-controlled by his parents his whole life should be enough to understand that they are abusive pieces of shit.

My impression is that it got worse after Emilie died but was pretty bad before already (I mean, I thought it couldn't get much worse than mind-control, but Gabriel the asshat managed to make it happen). But honestly, the show has such an inconsistent tone with their portrayal of Emilie. They seem to want her to be seen as a good and loving and perfect mother, but then there are so many unfortunate implications regarding her treatment of Adrien that they just... do not acknowledge.

[gryficowa]

Seriously, giving Chloe the advice "Be nice" is like giving the advice "Don't be sad" to someone with severe depression

In both cases, it is alleged that the person did not want to accept help and it was all their fault