#but also the way I think about time lord fashion is mostly me just extrapolating from the bits we see

[the-worms-in-your-bones]

Me seeing people talking about time lords in a way that contradicts how I see them: it’s fine, this is fine, people can have their opinions, the opinions you have on them aren’t even actually canon anyways, it’s fine

[yoolee]

Omg could you elaborate more on your thoughts about Yasu & Nobu's dynamic? Ever since finishing Yasu's Noble Ending I've just been really intrigued by their relationship, the way they've known each other for a long time and how they interact.. yeah, it's definitely layered..

*CRACKS KNUCKLES*

okay I had this all written out like a week ago and thenrefreshed the page accidentally (I am…kind of a loser about my writingy’all) so here we will try again. IN WORD THIS TIME.

OKAY.

SO.

FIRST.

I haven’t read Nobu’s sequel,and I don’t know what happens, so, for all I know Ieyasu could betray him and I’mjust WRONG so keep that in mind.

HERE IS THE SUPER SHORTVERSION:

To ME, Nobunaga and Ieyasuhave an indulgent, mischievous big brother to petulant, bratty and mistrustinglittle brother dynamic and I love it. I think Nobu sees wholly through Ieyasuand Ieyasu is both in denial of that and needs it and because he is Ieyasu probablysemi-actively tries to destroy any sense of kinship because of his trustissues, even if temporarily surrendering control, and being accepted on the merit of his actions and not his name, is a relief, even if he thinks he’s lying. Especiallybecause he tells himself that Nobu’s too much of a fool to do any real damagewith the control he has. THAT’S IT. THAT’S THE WHOLE OF IT. YOU CAN STOP READING IFYOU WANT.

But if you want to go downlee’s thinking-out-loud INTP rabbit hole abyss with her, HERE WE GO:

Things I headcanon about Nobuin regards to Ieyasu:

Family is desperatelyimportant to Nobu. Especially his brothers. There is a particular moment in hisMS involving cups of sake that just breaks my heart. This extends and includeseven to the point of them betraying him – that’s basically, in some sort ofways, a non-issue (it is, but, not in the stops-him-from-loving them sense)

Nobu also has a soft spot for bratty kids - we see that in his ToL ES, but in other stories as well (watch him with Sasuke!!)  And as often as not, his method for dealing with them is poking the sore spot while teaching them how to defend from it until they poke back. He openly tells us this is in part due to being a big brother, reinforcing the sibling-sense overlap.

Nobu 100% sees through Ieyasu’ss— (we see some hints of this at various points, especially because we’regiven Nobu’s little side-smirky sprite)

The BIGGEST ISSUE with Yasu’snastiness is the power imbalances, right? He’s pouring all this toxic, vicious venom into peoplewith no defense for it. BUT, with Nobu, the power structure is inverted. Yasuhas to play nice with Nobu (which makes his venom ALL THE WORSE because hehates it, right? Not right, actually, but I’ll get to that – he thinks hedoes). and Nobu can 100% handle that venom. Like. Are you kidding me? do you know what this man’s been through? One snotty little grump is entertainment more than it is hurtful. Like honestly Nobu probably thinks it’s REALLY FUNNY.

Biggest difference betweenthese two is that Nobu already sees everyone as family. We see this from himALL THE TIME – like regardless of what you may think about Inuchiyo’s route, Nobuis amazing imo. Like, he’s payingsuch close attention to the mental and emotional wellbeing of all of hisretainers that even a random cook he’s had like two interactions with rates hisOWN COAT for comfort. He sends away someone important for the same reason. InMitsuhide’s route, he semi-manipulates MC into making his favorite food just tohelp him take care of himself. Nobu may be a fool in some regards, but he gets his people, and gets what they need.

We can sort of extrapolate thatthis extends to Ieyasu as well. Nobu trusts Ieyasu, even knowing he’s amanipulative, angry little snot, and  probably knows what Ieyasu needs. So,what does Ieyasu need? (covered in a sec)

So he looks at Ieyasu and he sees the whole person. He has the luxury of doing so, because he’s one of the few people who gets to look at him straight in the eye instead of in deference, and he’s Nobu, he can do whatever he wants (including seeing a snotty, terrified, angry KID instead of a vicious, scheming, toxic lord–he sees that too, but I honestly think he sees that as fixable or he wouldn’t bother. I think he also sees it as less of a problem than it is for the same vantage point reason - like, I think he sort of figures if he drags Ieyasu around enough, time will fix it rather than active interference)

I also think Nobu just pokes at him sometimes because it’s funny to do so and we know he likes his entertainment. 

IEYASU

OKAY SO BACK TO ‘what does Ieyasu need?’ (Ieyasu needs a dang mother imo - unconditional familial love with affirmation of his inherent value as a human being and not as a Tokugawa but, back to that later)

Ieyasu has TRUST issues andIeyasu has CONTROL issues. And combined, those two things invariably cause himto poison any healthy relationship he may have. I really, really believe this.

OKAY here we go into Leerabbit holes, your mileage may vary.

I also think he’s like, inthe 19-ish age range it would explain a lot >>

I also feel like Ieyasu had WAYTOO much of other people controlling his life in a genuinely awful fashion thatwhen he has control again he a) doesn’t know how to be in control because godknows he’s never had it nor a healthy example of it b) doesn’t necessarily WANTto be in control but EVEN MORE c) doesn’t want anyone ELSE in control of himeither because he’s been down that road and we can see how horribly it affectedhim, he can’t come through that again.

To me, that’s a driving forceof why he is so gosh darn nasty. He’s completely hemmed in by a dichotomy notentirely of his own making, where he has to desperately cling onto something he doesn’t wantwith a white-knuckled death grip and that would make anyone temperamental (thathe doesn’t handle it well, to the point of being destructive and damaging, is aseparate discussion I don’t want to go down – thisis the best analysis of it I’ve seen of it and explains why my heart hurts for him as acharacter even if his behavior often isn’t immediately acceptable as a love interest)

But that choice of being incharge is taken from him when Nobu’s ordering him around. One of the interferingcomponents is removed from the equation.

Think about when we seeIeyasu’s façade cracking and when he’s at his absolute smoothest – when he’s atNobu’s beck and call. It’s effortless. He tells himself he hates it (and doesn’thide it as well as he thinks he does lolololol) BUT ALSO. He (consciously)believes Nobu is a fool. He believes he can outsmart him. There’s no risk to letting him be in charge, because Ieyasu can keep control and he can keep it in the way he’smost comfortable with – where no one else has to know. (Because if nobodyknows, nobody can take it away) so, there’s some relief to that, and he’s athis easiest to handle.

I also think deep deep deepdown Ieyasu knows Nobu knows and he trusts him anyway or why would he beserving Nobu without actively sabotaging him? But he can’t acknowledge thatbecause it would require VULNERABILITY and Ieyasu doesn’t do that.

BECAUSE REMEMBER Nobu’s place is a meritocracy. So, Ieyasu also gets to know that he’s there on the merit if his accomplishments and his actions, not his name. It’s not quite the same as being loved for who he is as a person (I think for Nobu it’s the same thing, and he may not fully understand that Ieyasu won’t/can’t understand that because for him it isn’t) but it’s as close as he’s ever gotten (Sakai obvs loves him but Ieyasu can’t separate that from the ‘Tokugawa’ component) and he craves that with a genuine desperation. Like, the poor child inside of him that never got it still needs it. So he sticks around, because, subconsciously, that’s better than nothing. Like not that he is EVER going to admit to anyone that he needs to be loved, but, everyone needs to be loved and accepted.

Yasu has to keep him at armslength and snarl his petulant, bratty little teeth because, issues, BUT he’sall bark. Whatever he’s done to Nobu (at least to my memory and routes I’veread) is minor, especially comparedto how Ieyasu behaves to and around ACTUAL ENEMIES (*side-eyes a certain Kairoute*)

ON BROTHERLYNESS

A huge part of what colorsthis for me is that Ieyasu is who eventually ends up uniting Japan, right?(*cough* uh, spoilers I guess?)  Okay well, sort of, it’s complicated BUT I do (as someone very new to this history) think it’s fair to say it’s Yasu there when the dust settles on unified Japan, and the dust stays settled, mostly, under him esp when compared to previously? History is messy.

Who taught him that? Whostarted him down that path?

To me, Ieyasu is SO MUCH likea bratty, grumpy little brother being dragged along to play cops and robbersbecause his big brother needed one more person to play the damsel in distressand it’s humiliating and he’s TICKED OFF but at the same time, he gets to beincluded in something, and he’s learning, and he’s itching for his turn becausehe’s watched everyone and they maythink he’s the dumb kid but just you wait, give him the chance to be the robberand he’ll rob you all blind.

And the twist is – Nobu knowsthat. That’s the real reason he dragged him along.

(the other is, Nobu doesn’tleave people behind)