#but ao3 has had major issues with racism and how they treat creators of color in the past

[praetorqueenreyna]

Wait: what happened with ao3?

The short of it is that OTW (the company that runs AO3) fired a volunteer for having "from the river to the sea, palestine will be free" in their bio. Their warnings to this person said that they were being antisemitic and equated the phrase to a slur. @feynessupremacy put together a list of sources here (in an ask that QUITE FRANKLY was very rude; somebody not posting about something doesn't mean they endorse it. Please be kinder about trying to inform people of serious issues! But Simi answered it very well and included sources which I appreciate).

Anyway, the question is whether or not to keep posting fic on AO3. They don't profit financially from fic being posted or people visiting the site, but it still supports them as a business to use the site. Which is what I (and other fic writers) are trying to figure out right now.

[stickykeys633]

Changing thing up a bit @capricornsicle, that other post was becoming unwieldy.

You think you’re on a crusade to expose fandom racism and bias in Teen Wolf, but in doing so, because TW is such a specific beast, you make assumptions and add unnecessary hyperbole to your arguments. 

You’ve assumed and ran with the idea that I’m white (many do, which is strange since my icon is a black woman) and you’ve treated me a certain way because of it. But then in the same breath you’ll say there’s inherent bias against Scott McCall, a character that many people saw as white played by an actor who is white passing. 

There’s also this underlying statement that any majority of people see Scott as Latinx and automatically make it a negative thing which again, isn’t true, specifically not in Teen Wolf. 

I’ve found the antis like to take black racism experiences and try to fit Scott into that category, but even a small thing like colorism makes it so it’s not equitable. 

that’s a general statement about fans and critics alike holding characters of color up to a higher standard than white characters. It’s not everyone, it’s certainly not an attack on anyone, but it happens a lot, across various fandoms. White characters are much more often forgiven for the things they do than characters of color who do the same things.

This doesn’t happen with the frequency you think and in the Teen Wolf fandom when it does happen it is rarely if ever in regards to Scott. Other, more evident characters of color yes.. And the wild examples that the antis present are never equitable. Even when presented with context, they often have to padd it and stretch it to make it seem like some infraction has been done. What it does is seek to absolve Scott of ANY wrong doing, when really there is fault laid at both parties. 

I’ll provide a couple of examples in the moment, but the bottom like is that Stiles/Derek/Peter stans acknowledge their faults and many times love them because of it. On the show Scott was never given the chance to acknowledge his faults, the show refused to admit that he needed to grow and be redeemed of anything. This was a misstep because he became unpalatable, not as a perfect icon, but as someone whose actions didn’t hold relevant consequences. 

The Donovan Incident

Now, I disagree with some key points, but overall I think this is the most important part:

They fought, like teenagers do, especially teenagers who have gone through that kind of trauma, and then, in 5x13, they’re talking outside a gas station, and they talk and get over it,

If everyone could agree that this happened, this would be a much better place. But antis will not chalk up the experience for the contrived nonsense it was and become so enraged when people blame Scott that they can’t let it be and suddenly we’re all racists. 

Which, using racism as a tool to sooth butthurt is not okay and we see it time and time again. They take every seedling and think, “how can I add racism to this so I get my way?” which is pathetic, but also sullies the impact of real racism on the show. 

During this time Tracey was murdered, Mason was non-existent, they killed Noah and Lucas sent Kira to the desert and left her there. But being mad at Scott for intentionally misunderstanding Stiles is what’s racist? This is why antis and SDP Stans constantly bump heads. Everyone has been in a friend group where some new interloper comes in and riles things up. Usually trying to steal someone’s man, but you know there are certain things you do when that happens and Scott made ALL the wrong moves. He knew Stiles didn’t trust Theo and openly disliked him, it should have been an immediate red flag when Theo started in with Stiles violently killing someone in cold blood. Additionally, I would have LOVED if the show made the connection to Scott still being traumatized by Nogi, but again, the show made it seem like Scott was JUST FINE! and again, a disservice was made to his character. 

The point is that a not insignificant number of fans label Scott as a constant bad friend, as someone who’s always a bad influence on Stiles, and that’s really not the case.

People who label him as a constant bad friend use this as ONE example of it. I actually questioned their friendship after Motel California. I remember there were a couple of beats that made it clear they weren’t sandbox buddies, and probably met in the community little league (was it little league or soccer that they met Theo? I forget?). There have been several instances of them not being as close as they claimed. 

If Stiles can be forgiven for throwing lacrosse balls at Scott (which really fucking hurt, speaking from experience) and keying some random loner kids’ car to get him beat up because Lydia kissed him

Just a side note, Stiles was havign his fun, yes, but Scott was completely complicit in these scenes and knew 100% what was going on. Stiles was helping Scott by testing his tolerance and helping him control his heartbeat and yes they did it in bonehead teenage boy ways, but there was nothing malicious or racially motivated about it. Talk about holding characters to different levels. You’ve all made the white characters irredeemable supremacists when nothing in the canon alludes to this. 

a few antis forgive Stiles but condemn Scott. And that’s because of racial bias that makes those particular antis hold Scott to much higher standards than his white friends, which is a nice way of saying it’s racism.

Which again, is wrong in that you have absolutely no way of quantifying this for every viewer. There’s no such thing as special Scott centric racism. If someone is racist, they’re going to show it against anyone not white on the show, and that’s simply a) not the case and b) impossible to determine from the asks of one anon and some misinterpreted fic. 

Liking Scott isn’t pro-POC, no, but it is tied to racial issues in Hollywood, popular media, and fandom. Scott being Latinx (despite the fact it never comes up, he’s played by a Latinx actor and is undoubtedly TV’s favorite “ambiguously brown”) makes him connected to racial issues.

But it doesn’t, because Teen Wolf was specifically created as a world without color so coding Scott as race-neutral meant that audiences had the choice to view him that way and many did. I mean, look at the show, he has two white Italian actors playing his parents, his last name is McCall and his mother’s maiden name was Delgado which could mean anything. Jeff had a habit of casting white women with Latinx last names they got from a gracious step-father, it’s not a leap to say this was true of Melissa. This is why I refuse to give the show any representation points. Diversity sure, they’re there, but they’re not well represented and again, this neither starts nor ends with Scott McCall. 

Liking Scott is something that a lot of viewers of color end up doing

Again, not entirely true. Liking Boyd? Yes. Deaton, Morrell, Kira? Yes. Scott? Sure... the response to Scott from Latinx fans was varied in interesting ways. Some went up hard for him and while I don’t acknowledge the show’s version of Scott, I write him as half Mexican in every fic. There are some who, like you, were so excited to see someone like themselves and that’s beautiful and awesome. There were also some that started excited but then were like “oh, he’s playing a white boy” which people like to forget was VERY much a thing. There was no reason to think Scott was white and in fact when Jeff received the Alma award, it was for casting Posey and not necessarily having a Latinx character. In the beginning of Teen Wolf he was actually asked if Scott was white (the phrase they used was “All American” which...), And there were still others who hated Scott instantly and thought he was wack and did NOT see themselves in him.

So even within the Latinx community alone there were several opinions. Now spread that out to hundreds of thousands and then millions of viewers. So when you say “Liking Scott is something a lot of VOC end up doing” you’re creating a value based judgement on the idea of liking YOUR version of Scott McCall. 

Which isn’t fair and isn’t correct. 

YOU ended up liking Scott because YOU appreciated the interpretation. No one can take that away from you. But when you cast this net of racism, you’re gonna end up with a lot of things that don’t fit the term and a lot of people mad that they’re caught in your web of racial bias. 

if it’s the burden of POC to fight for representation tooth and nail, then that’s the fight I’ll be fighting.

Part of it is that sometimes I worry that if I don’t post about them, if I don’t post gifs of them and talk about them and make them be part of the teen wolf tag on this site, no one else is going to.

We talked about this with your first post. Generally I’m sympathetic, but I do take issue with your methods. Yes, I’ve seen those gif tax posts and I love the concept, but... tax is something you pay in the exchange for something that you want. I don’t see POC characters as tax and I get it’s just a clever way to name what you’re doing, but I think it makes it so negative when celebrating the POC characters should be an enjoyable and inclusive thing. 

If you feel alone, it’s because you haven’t reached out to anyone. I know a lot of creators who make content for characters of color, The problem is that when you accuse people of focusing on white characters in a show FULL of white characters and cover them with a blanket of systemic bias, you’re alienating a lot of people who don’t want the drama. 

Someone just released some ao3 stats of POC characters in Sterek fics verses TW fics as a whole and Kira was sadly underrepresented, showing up in just under 45% of fics. My answer to that isn’t to scream at Stereks about how racist they are against Asians. Instead, I wanna have a Kira appreciation event, but until I can, I make sure to write Kira into my fics because I love her. I repost gifsets with her in them, I comment and seek out people who create for her and support them and if you approach some creators, the’re happy to be amenable. I’ve left comments on fics asking for a certain character and sometimes they rightfully say no, but sometimes it’s not a problem and the change is awesome. 

I feel like the bulk of antis have an idea in their mind and don’t give anyone else a freaking chance. And then, when anything negative is said about Scott, they go awf like SEE!!?!> RACISM!!!!!! when it’s honestly not the case. The anon doesn’t represent even the minority of the majority of stereks. Tumblr doesn’t, ao3 doesn’t, twitter doesn’t. That’s why it’s so much less stressful to find out ways to insert diversity and representation rather than browbeating others to do it out of shame.  

There’s this perceived bias that worms it’s way in that simply doesn’t exist at the levels you think it does. Because not only are you assuming that people dislike the characters of color because of their color, but also that they harbor negative feelings.

But, as we’ve learned from K-pop fans, it seems white people are much more willing to enjoy and put out East Asian representation than representation of people darker than them

Kira was undoubtedly brought in to bring a more Asian audience, but again, racism isn’t a pick and choose kind of thing. People who hated Kira and love Scott do not see Scott as Latinx. And Kira has more posts by a small margin mostly because she was there and she had a family and large ties to the plot. Not because kids loves k-pop (which wasn’t even that big during her run). 

And THIS:

Boyd is stereotyped as the big, buff Black guy who’s aggressive and athletic (but almost never seen as the brains of the group, despite his intelligence,xxx and comes from a poor background and answers to an assertive white man without question

Boyd was specifically not stereotypes as aggressive and athletic, and in all fanfic is usually the one who reasons and is most level headed. He came from a poor background, but so did Isaac, and he questioned Derek and Scott. This is what I mean, while I agree that it’s your interpretation, you can’t say it’s a universal interpretation and then judge others because of it. 

The only time I care is when people specifically dislike Scott because of perceived affronts to Stiles and/or Derek, and I say “perceived” because I refer specifically to ones those specific anons and antis take completely out of context, blow out of proportion, or just make up.

Lol, again, your perception, because I can give you several canon based reasons to be upset with Scott, but of course you’ll find a way, no matter how tangential to twist it, because he’s your fave and canon is a mess. This is the freaking point. Let people have their stories. It’s not hurting you if you also add in yours. 

I do not believe it is possible for a 16-year-old to consent to a romantic and/or sexual relationship with a 24/25-year-old, but this post isn’t about that

Please don’t believe that you’re the first person to try this argument because you’re not and also Derek was at most 23 when Stiles was 17 (and to make it more interesting he was 19 in the original unaired pilot, but they aged him up so Kate wouldn’t be full on statutory rape, good times!)

https://stickylovessterek.tumblr.com/post/151831687742/sterek-is-not-pedophilia

Now you might not like it, and that’s totally fine and valid. But age has no basis in their relationship. I’m more interested in power dynamics, which is why I didn’t like Aria/Fitz on PLL or Marrish (which I could have been on board for, but this show is trash). 

with perhaps me as Stiles, you as Scott, and the anon playing Theo during his villain phase circa season 5, trying to turn two people against each other over a larger ethics debate

Well, no, clearly I’m the Stiles since I’m right (i kid, I kid), but honestly, you’re the one putting the anon in this. I’ve been ignoring their hyperbole and we’ve been telling the antis to pick and choose and be discerning with their posts. That has nothing to do with me. If we’re Scott and Stiles then it’s one of us talking and the other not listening and doing theings they’re own way and the fact that both of us have different ideas as to which is which is really part of the fun. 

But it’s not racism.