#but like. dude... diavolo is a villain. he is supposed to be evil

[shoechoe]

I do not like to make posts like these too often, but it really feels that so often, me liking hated villain characters is used as a cudgel against me when I criticize other characters I find unlikable. You guys, there is a difference between a villain character that is written to be evil and hated that justifies them being the enemy of the good guys and a protagonist/ally character that you are supposed to like but does things that are annoying or unlikable and doesn't have enough redeeming qualities to make up for it.

The first is acknowledged and intentionally written to be a bad guy that does bad things- the other is not supposed to be, but turns out to be so anyway, usually due to bad writing. It is not inherently contradictory or hypocritical to be annoyed by and dislike one, but not the other.

[vierabathwater]

So I finished the JJBA anime a couple of nights ago.  Spoilers and discussion below the cut.

I definitely liked Part 5 more than I thought I would.  However, I would say it’s probably my least favorite part.  It almost moves a little too quickly in comparison to Part 4, though thankfully not as slow as Part 3.  I do think the main protagonist crew got more development than previous parts, but Araki has never been known for going extremely in depth.  So as far as the anime goes, my fave parts are 4 > 2 > 3(only because it was dragged out unnecessarily) > 1(only because a lot of stuff was cut out according to Warren and because it also tramples on my heart) > 5.

My favorite JoJos are: Jotaro = Josuke > Jolyne = Joseph > Jonathan > Giorno.  I’m not counting Gappy and Johnny because I haven’t read their manga yet.  I think I would get along with Josuke much better than Jotaro, but I’ve also got a weakness for “mean” dudes with hearts of gold.  I do love Jolyne so far.  I love Joseph, but I feel like Araki making Josuke his bastard was OOC(kind of like the old misconception in Star Wars that Han is a ladies’ man, when he literally flirts with one girl in the whole film series, and poorly at that) and lazy.  I wish Jonathan had been around a bit longer, maybe help some of London’s poorer civvies or fight some of Dio’s monsters.  I do like Giorno; however, most of the fights were handled by Team Bucciarati, though Giorno did the ultimate heavy lifting in the end.  Best DARE campaign ever!

Regarding the villains, it’s Kira > Dio > Diavolo > Kars.  I’ve always liked villains that are actually nuanced, not the woobie BS that the Russo brothers and SWTOR threw at fans with movie!Thanos and Valkorion, respectively.  Kira is an awful, terrible, evil person, but he’s not foaming at the mouth and openly rampaging.  He’s very good at blending in with the crowd, and it serves to his benefit until the very end.  Dio was a good villain, but as some people have pointed out, it’s odd that he was seemingly upset at actually sucessfully killing Jonathan(”JoJo?  JoJo?”), only to get back on his bullshit 100 years later.  I’ve never been a huge fan of the “evil from birth” plot, as suggested by Speedwagon; however, it could be suggested that this is what can happen when you desire power but without any standards.  Regarding Diavolo, I do think Araki handled mental illness(I believe Bossu is supposed to have a split personality) as best as he could.  I do think his death via Gold Experience Requiem was a bit extreme; perhaps he should have gotten the Seven Page Muda instead of Cioccolata(who Diavolo hated; remember, Diavolo is obsessed with protecting his identity to the point of wanting to off his own kid to cover his own ass, so if that guy hates you...).  Kars wasn’t a bad villain, just a power hungry edgelord.  Seeing him getting defeated by one dumbass bisexual and bad luck was delicious.

I do want to give a special shout-out to Whammu, for having half decent ethics for someone who followed Kars.  He respected Joseph up to the very end.

[shoechoe]

one of the reasons why i like diavolo so much is that i feel like araki intentionally made all of the Vento Aureo cast (including the villains like la squadra) as funny and likable as possible, for the sake of the major theme of friendship and love and how forming positive relationships with other people makes you stronger

...and then he just took a look at the Boss and was like “okay, how do I make this dude the most garbage, unlikable character known to man” and that’s how diavolo was born

[shoechoe]

I kinda just wanna hear what you think about Fugo & Trish..

I'll go in-depth but the TL;DR of it is pretty much that I just kinda feel bad for them lol

(this ended up being pretty long so I put it under a cut. The word count is 2252.)

Fugo is a pretty interesting character to me. In terms of personality, he sort of alternates from being serious, intelligent, and level-headed to being impulsive and violent when he's upset (which I won't antagonize him for; I'm assuming that's caused by some unspecified mental illness due to childhood stress and trauma that he never got the proper help for?) It’s a real shame to me how Araki doesn’t give us a whole bunch to work off of, but I do like the little that’s shown. I also thought his stand was one of the coolest out of all of Team Bucciarati and it was really disappointing how underused it ended up being.

One thing I liked about him was how he clearly had the closest relationship to Narancia out of all the others. I think their dynamic works really well- it’s pretty clear that Fugo was essentially the one who took care of Narancia up until he left the group. We see him giving him advice, teaching him school subjects that he never learned and being protective over him in general, trying to convince him not to leave with Bruno on the boat. (I also think this dynamic is especially interesting/funny considering Narancia is actually older than Fugo.)

I feel pretty sympathetic for him- instead of getting the proper help he needed to deal with his stress and anger issues, he ended up just joining the mafia instead because his impulsive violence was seen as almost an advantage (Bruno tells him that he could "make use" of his temper if he joined his group). This doesn't excuse some of the conscious decisions he made while in the mafia, but I think in the end he was a dude who could've turned out alright and just needed some more positive influences in his life (and probably some therapy as well, but I could probably say that about over half of all Jojo characters lol).

His disappearance halfway through VA sort of left me with mixed feelings. On one hand, it makes sense to me- Bruno gave everyone the choice to go with him, and it would've been unrealistic if everyone decided to stay, especially the most generally logical and precautious member. I don't have a problem with the concept of Fugo leaving in and of itself (and if you’re wondering, I do disagree with the people who antagonize him for leaving. I think he made a rational decision in fear of his and the rest of his friend's lives, however immoral the Boss ended up being in the end. I don't think he is a maliciously evil character- he was just afraid of actively rebelling against someone who has kept a tyrannical hold on Italy for over a decade now and has one of the most powerful stands in the series. Not to mention, Bruno gave him the choice to leave, after all.)

At the same time, I feel like it was a pretty big disappointment how he didn't get a single scene afterward showing what happened to him and where he went after he left the rest of the group; in fact, the group hardly even mentions him after he leaves. It feels like he was just kicked from the story to be forgotten and never come back. It sort of reminds me of Anne from part 3.

To really understand him, I think you have to acknowledge the fact that he was initially intended to be a twist villain when Araki started writing part 5. He was supposed to be working as a spy for Diavolo and was planned to eventually end up taking the place of Cioccolata, and Giorno was supposed to end up killing him.

 This ended up not happening due to Araki's mental health while writing the part and not being able to handle the thought of a friend betraying the group.

I think this explains Fugo's sudden disappearance- the way he was intended to reappear was something Araki couldn't emotionally handle. I respect this decision wholeheartedly, but I do think it caused a weird rift in Fugo's character that ended up making him feel... incomplete, sort of? We never really get an actually satisfying conclusion to his character, and it does kinda hurt.

I feel like this could've been fixed pretty easily, too- like, maybe there could be a scene where the gang finds Fugo after killing Diavolo, and he sees how many of them died and mourns for them (especially Narancia, who was shown to be the one he was overall closest to), or we get a scene showing what Fugo did after he left, or maybe he even rejoins them by the end now that Giorno has defeated the Boss- that would've been satisfying to me. (I also definitely think that there should've been more fights focused on him before he leaves the group. His stand is way too interesting to just leave in the dust like that, Araki...)

Overall, I do like him, though there are some things I would improve about how he was handled. I think Araki should've taken more time to think about what exactly happened to Fugo after he left and shown that (even just as an afterthought would've worked, really).

-

Meanwhile, Trish plays one of the most interesting roles as the main antagonist's daughter (being the only connection to the Boss that we had for a good amount of the part), in my opinion. She's the only character in part 5 that I felt was genuinely innocent throughout the whole thing; she wasn't involved with the Mafia beforehand, she didn't torture or kill anyone, and she didn't commit any crimes. She was pretty much just a teen who was roped into some shit that she didn't deserve due to her weird paranoid dad. It makes me feel a lot worse for her, all things considered- at the end of part 5, she has no home to go to due to her mother’s death, she probably gained some form of trauma due to having her life in danger and almost being killed multiple times, and we have no idea what’s actually going to happen to her next. (Would she join the mafia?? I hope not...)

I also thought that her character development throughout was fun to watch. She started off as practically standless and defenseless (with only some basic self-defense mechanisms at hand) and puts off the impression of being somewhat entitled at the beginning- she constantly makes petty demands from the other characters, making them see her as weak and in need of sheltering from the violence that's happening around her. Throughout the story, as we watch her life be put into danger multiple times, she slowly unlocks her stand ability and learns how to defend herself instead of being coddled entirely by the rest of Bruno’s gang. That is one thing that I find unique about her- she’s the only one in part 5 who has to actively learn how to defend herself instead of going into it already knowing how.

I also think that her stand talking to her and giving her advice when it first manifested was an interesting way of showing her character. I think it’s a representation of how she was hiding her stronger, more capable self from the others (and probably wasn’t even aware she had the capability herself), and when she finally needed the strength, her stand/stronger self appeared before her. Once she fully accepted who she was and how to use her strength, her stand’s persona kind of ‘merged’ with her, and stops talking for the rest of the part. It’s a really cool visual method of showing how Trish is stronger than she realized (and what she initially let on)- I actually really like it.

I’ve actually heard a semi-theory before regarding Trish’s character, and I thought it was interesting enough to share here. Some people suggest that the reason Trish acted spoiled and asked for extravagant items before the twist with the Boss is because she predicted that her father wasn’t actually interested in protecting her, and was smart enough to see before all the others that she was being led to her death- so, she decided to at least live her life to the fullest before she was killed, and hid that knowledge from the others. I think this actually makes a lot of sense, and would be a cool addition to the narrative/viewing in retrospect. (I also think it would probably say something about her to be able to see through the Boss’s ruse so quickly.)

(Side thought: I also thought it was interesting how similar Spice Girl is visually to King Crimson.

It’s probably just to visualize the fact that Trish and Diavolo are related, but I wonder if it could also mean that Trish shares some character traits with her father.)

Overall, Trish is probably one of my favorite characters in Vento Aureo. She has explicit, strong character development that I feel other characters like Giorno sorely lacked, and I love her stand and personality.

That being said, there are definitely some problems with how Araki handled her. For a start, I definitely feel like she needed some more personality at the beginning of the story- she was clearly just the MacGuffin that the characters needed to protect, and didn’t really feel like her own character until the Notorious B.I.G. fight. I think she should’ve tried to fight off La Squadra a little bit more before she unlocks her stand instead of just staying inside Mr. President all the time; after all, we do see that she has some basic self-defense training, and seeing her be ripped out of her comfort zone more and thrown into the fighting would articulate just how perilous this mission is even more.

I also absolutely hate how criminally underused she is. She barely did anything in the final fight against her father except taunt him, and Spice Girl is only used once after her single fight centered around her. It was a gigantic disappointment to me. She had her big character moment, and then she was just... shelved by the narrative, basically. Should she not have a chance to fight against the person who had been terrorizing her throughout the entire part, despite being her own father? (She deserved to deck Diavolo at least once, come on.) If I had to change Vento Aureo, the first thing I would do would be to immediately give Trish more time in the spotlight. She deserved to have an active role in fights once she unlocked her stand as the group saw she was more than capable of defending herself- I would especially emphasize her importance in the final battle against Diavolo, seeing as she was the one that he was really after.

(Another side note: I also heavily dislike how blatantly oversexualized she is and the jokes that they make about her, with characters much older than her pointing out her body, trying to hit on her, etc. Not only is it just extremely uncomfortable and unfunny to watch considering her being underage and the only female character, it also attracts people in the fanbase to ignore the actual interesting parts of her character and make certain comments and jokes that are just... sort of painful. That would be one of the first aspects of VA I would remove immediately. I get that it’s anime and all, but come on.)

One thing I would also add (or wanted to see, at least) would probably be at least an interaction or two between Trish and Doppio. I’m not sure how it would fit into the narrative, but I feel like it would’ve been interesting considering both of their characters- Doppio being the one closest to Diavolo that he likes and takes care of, with Trish in contrast being neglected and subjected to violence by the Boss. (I wonder if Trish would be in some way jealous of Doppio, honestly.) The fact that Doppio didn’t get to interact with Team Bucciarati at all was pretty disappointing to me, and I think at least some sort of direct contrast between Doppio and Trish would’ve helped it.

Finally, I would also have a similar addition to what I suggested with Fugo where we see what happened to her after the Boss is gone and her life isn’t in direct danger anymore, seeing as she now has no home to go to. (Maybe she goes to live with Fugo? Does she live in Bruno’s old house now that he’s dead?) It would be a solid cap-off to her character and let us know that she’s safe and living decently after the chaos.

-

Despite my criticisms for both of them, I like both Trish and Fugo. Now that I think about it, they sort of share some writing issues of being underused and shelved when Araki didn’t want to deal with them anymore, but I do think they’re still both good characters. My main problem with them isn’t the characters themselves (in fact, I think they’re both written pretty solidly), but more how the narrative handled them and what they got to actually do throughout the part. They just deserved better, pretty much.