#cause if i have to see one more person say it was because malenia was just power hungry

[miquellaluciscaelum]

Spoilers Elden ring DLC

Thoughts about Miquella's and Ranni's destinies.

I came across a video in Tiktok about how Ranni never had a good relationship with Golden twins because of Miquella's manipulativeness and his ability to enchant people. Well, first of all, this is stupid. We don't know what kind of relationship Ranni and Miquella had, but they definitely weren't full of hatred for each other, on the contrary, there are much more hints that they had some kind of connection, maybe even worked together on their goals.

But this is half of the trouble, in the comments people, as always proved that faith in humanity is absolutely in vain. The best you could hear there was, of course, that Miquella was just manipulating people and that he was the main villain of the story, which we were told from the beginning in the description of the branch. It went on to speculate, or even claim, that Miquella was definitely manipulating everyone around him, especially Malenia and Godwyn (unbelievably how brothers and sisters who for a long time only had each other in an unfriendly and dangerous world, where being different or deviating from the general line meant being an outcast, could sincerely love and understand each other? and of course no way Godwyn could love and cherish his brothers and sisters because he had once lost his younger brothers and did not want to lose these too).

But the funniest and scariest thing for me, actually the thing that pissed me completely off and made me write this post is that people are seriously so praising Ranni. In comments of the video, where they're condemning Miquella’s actions, they’re saying how cool Ranni is. Fuck, seems like nothing in these people’s heads works? I have nothing against Ranni, she is a character with a cool story, motivation, her quest is one of the most interesting in the game, and the ending is one of the most memorable and cinematic. But it’s so hypocritical. Ranni was literally the one who brought all shit into the fan, the Shattering was caused by her, she orchestrated the murder of a member of the royal family with a terrible weapon, the influence of which spread a literally deadly plague across the land, and blessed Tarnished to do whatever it took to help her, including killing one of her brothers.

The best thing to say is that Miquella and Ranni are worth each other when it comes to "the ends justifies the means". But I don’t see the point in saying which one is better or worse, who is kinder or nobler, who has pursued what goals. For me personally, the whole point of Ranni and Miquella is how their stories ended. Because when Ranni succeeded, Miquella lost, but why? They both did some very shady shit, manipulated, killed, etc. but Ranni got what she wanted while Miquella didn’t. I personally think it’s selfishness. There’s a healthy ego and ambition in Ranni. There’s ambition in Miquella too, after all, he is empyrean but the huge difference is that Ranni has all of her ambitions focused on herself. She sacrifices herself, yes, she literally kills her own body, but that’s the sacrifice she was willing to make, just as much as she was willing to give to get rid of the influence of the Great will. Her soul, her heart, her will, her faith and her principles, they all remain the same from beginning to end, she does not sacrifice her personality, she does not change course, even when faced with difficulties or losses in her way. Because she’s doing it for herself first. Ranni does not aim to save the world or make it a better place, or to help all the poor and sick. Her motivation may be the desire of power, revenge for the fate of her mother, hatred for the Golden order - all that you want and all those reasons are deeply selfish.

Miquella doesn’t want to change the world for himself. He thinks about his sister, about his brother, about the people he’s taken under his protection. He wants to create a better world for them. And this is the point. He’s very altruistic and sacrificial. When it comes to sacrificing himself for the greater good, he does it without a hesitation, but if Ranni gives only what she is allowing to give, Miquella gives everything. And it is a mistake, his biggest mistake. He was thinking about everyone else except himself. Pushed himself too far and eventually lost himself completely. He threw away everything that had made him him, on his way to the top and there was nothing left in the end. No heart, no soul, no love, no kindness. How can you create a kind world if there’s nothing kind left in you?

That’s the key point, because he’s changing the world with his kindness and compassion because he’s capable of it. But when he dropped it, it just didn’t make any sense. I think at the end he was nothing more than an empty shell of a man who had only a phantom target on the horizon, he doesn’t remember what he was doing all this for or nobody who he left behind. He chose the path of absolute self-sabotage and this could not have been successful in any way under the circumstances. If Miquella had become a god, he would have simply become new Marika and continued the cycle. By abandoning himself, Miquella became part of this vicious circle and cruel world. His kindness and compassion were very things that made him special and gave him the power to change the world around him.

I think that’s why Saint Trina asks us to kill Miquella. Free him from the cage of divinity and grant him forgiveness. To me, it looks as if Miquella himself asked us to kill him (she is literally a being born out of his discarded parts), because somewhere deep inside, when he had not gone too far, he understood the wrongness of the way, that was chosen, he wanted forgiveness for all that was done, but he had no way back, nothing to go back to.

In the end:

Ranni, being selfish and purposeful, succeeds and breaks the vicious circle, takes away the Golden order and leaves the world that she does not care much about to recover on its own.

Miquella, being altruistic and compassionate, tries to change the world and the cruel system, but completely loses himself and his goal along the way, becomes part of a vicious cycle of senseless cruelty and dies.

Could he have succeeded? Yes, I believe that. He could have succeeded, but not as a god. At least not as someone who would have taken Marika’s place. In fact, the divinity through the Elden ring and the Divine gate are no different, Marika was on both ends and we all know what have happened to her. I believe that Miquella could have achieved so much more without being a god, without becoming a part of this vicious circle. He had already achieved more than anyone could have imagined with his tree, with the Unalloyed gold, against the Outer gods, and he was not god all this time. If he had found a way to break his curse, if he had been able to do it as he had planned through  Haligtree, history would have gone a whole different way.

To me, he was not and will not be the villain of this story. He’s just another victim, from a long list of suffered the cruelty and injustice of the Elden Ring world.

[reslari]

Time for

Revelations with Res

Today edition: The NPCs and the demigods they represent.

I find Freyja in particular to be very interesting. She's a Redmane - a "true Redmane" according to Ansbach - but almost more importantly is that she seems to be part of Radahn's honor guard. Hand selected, which means she not only knew Radahn personally, but served more closely with him than maybe any other named character except Jerren. And her reaction to what seems to be, surfacely, the Frankensteinian horror show of Miquella's plan is, basically, "Haha. That's awesome. Radahn's gonna love it."

Now. She says this AFTER Miquella's compulsion is broken, so she's not just speaking from a place of someone unable to resist or think ill of Miquella. She also seems to know that her support of the whole ritual is going to put her at odds with Ansbach. She knows that what is happening to Mohg is problematic, but she doesn't seem to have that same issue with what will happen to Radahn. If it was truly something so awful, why would she be willing to support it, as one of the elite Redmanes? Why would she think this is something Radahn would want? If this is truly an awful fate Radahn is utterly unwilling in, why would a Redmane support and encourage it? Why is she not fighting alongside you, Ansbach, and Thiollier? I would have suspected her to "switch sides" on Leda long before Thiollier if Radahn's fate was so horrific.

Ansbach, conversely, is ALSO a high-ranking individual, but his loyalty is, of course, Mohg. It's obviously quite purposeful that the most important characters in the DLC are those which ostensibly knew the affected demigods personally. Because that means their opinions and words hold some weight and are to be paid attention to. So Ansbach being offended on Mohg's behalf tells you that what happened to Mohg IS a wrong. Mohg is not a great person, but in this specific circumstance, he's a victim. He's being used for the furtherance of two others' plots, and gets no say in it, and Ansbach is rightfully mortified. So mortified, in fact, that even though he is terrified out of his mind, he wants it to be put to rights, and is willing to fight a GOD to see it done.

Funnily enough, Ansbach is then the one who gets to actually speak to Radahn (supposing you summoned him for the boss fight). He is polite and cordial, but he does say, "Those remains do not belong to you."

It implies that Ansbach, at the very least, thinks that Radahn can both hear and understand what he is saying, and that Radahn believes the body he has is, well, his possession. Now, of course, there is an argument to be made that he's just trying to be polite, especially in the face of something that scares him, but... it was Ansbach who first discovered what Miquella was up to, in the storehouse. It was he that then passed that information along to Freyja (via the Tarnished). And, when she tells him that she knows her lord posessing his lord's remains is going to cause them to come to blows, he calls her a true Redmane for looking forward to the fight. But, she is also a true Redmane for remaining loyal to Radahn, or else she wouldn't be a "Redmane" at all, now would she?

That is to say: Ansbach thinks Radahn is there willingly. Freyja tells you this is something that suits Radahn just fine. Miquella doesn't even need to compel Radahn - the NPCs lay out just fine he'd happily be there of his own volition. You don't even need to scour item descriptions to figure out if the vow was mutual or not, the NPCs are more than happy to tell you.

What it does not tell you, and I'm sure we're going to be having fandom slapfights about this for the rest of eternity, is what "our part" of Miquella's vow is referring to. Was killing Radahn actually part of it?

Weirdly, that's what my gut feeling was telling me. Obviously, any body would be better than what Radahn was stuck with when you fought him the first time, but the reason he's rotted at all is because Malenia came after him, presumably on Miquella's orders.

There's a thought I have that, because death - so long as it is not inflicted by Destined Death - isn't permanent, that he wanted a good, peak fight to test his might, and a glorious end. Except, he's just playing at it, knowing full well he's going to return either way. The problem is when "the mad taint of his newfound strength" from the Great Rune he claimed pushed him to fight harder than originally intended, until Malenia had to pull out the worst stop possible to grant him this death, and it... didn't kill him. Now, they had to move to a second plan, because Radahn's body was no longer usable.

Or, if you go by the idea that a Hornsent had to be used as the replacement vessel for the God's Lord, he was going to lose his body/die anyway, so he might as well go out in a spectacle. An end befitting a warrior and champion, and a resurrection the same, this time as a true Lord.

There's an addendum thought I have that... is this Radahn's way of emulating Godfrey? It seems to not be much of a secret that when Marika cast out the Tarnished, she told them they would have to fight, and then DIE, in a far-flung foreign area. That the entire point was to become strong fighting foreign wars, and then they could come back when Marika resurrected them. Except we can infer from Hewg, among other things, that a more ulterior motive in her plan was to keep the Tarnished in the wings to be brought back to slay herself/the Elden Beast. But to someone who doesn't know her actual plan, maybe all Radahn saw was Godfrey being sent away to fight in foreign wars, and be killed, and be resurrected again, and come back even stronger. Which, hey, he's a warlord, that seems like a great plan. So he wants something similar from Miquella.

Truly, we know the Godfrey brainrot is very strong in Radahn. It's as likely as anything.

I have a conflicting thought, though, that it really was just Radahn changed his mind. Maybe when the Shattering happened, he didn't think he needed Miquella anymore, he was now mighty enough with a Great Rune, AND the Shattering quenched his thirst for endless war. Or maybe, as I posited before, Miquella didn't seem like he could become a god, since he was still a child in body and his other projects had failed. Or because Miquella abandoned the Golden Order. Or because Miquella wanted a peaceful world that a warmonger would dislike, or get bored in. Whatever his reasons, backing out of the promise would trigger Miquella to try to get him to come back via Malenia, and try to force him to uphold his part of the bargain.

I still think Miquella breaking his Great Rune should've completely ended his compulsion ability though, so Radahn's agreement was completely unambiguous, but FromSoft just haaaaad to haaaave a unique grab attack on their final DLC boss. Bah.

[katyspersonal]

thank u for pointing out the unfair finlenia stances in the fandom..a lot of people dont get that not liking a ship is sometimes a taste thing and not bigotry. i personally hc malenia as demi and i like to imagine she kept a professional relationship with her soldiers but finlay was a big admirer. i dont want to get hate for this take though

Aww anon come here;

I'd love to say that disliking a ship is always a taste, not "sometimes", but... well, some people who are invested in shipping will prefer only straight ships and consider gay ones "sin"/degeneracy/whatever led them to it. I haven't run into this sort of fans in a VERY long while but I doubt they went 100% extinct.

Nonetheless, it IS important to not instantly assume the worst about the person just because they don't share the vision of the ship that the 'cool kids' of the fandom decided is canon! Even if initial concern comes from a 'reasonable' place (like not wanting those conservative bigots to shame people in the fandom), this sort of fear and alertness ALWAYS ends up hurting waaaaaay more innocent people than it punishes the guilty ones! This principle applies not just to fandomry discourse of course but everywhere; being hyper-alerted and always set on detecting the enemy just inevitably turns you into THESE guys:

(In case if you don't know of Bloodborne, these guys are pretty much the mentality and reflection of what happens when you become so paranoid you'll rather have many innocents executed than "risk to let a beast slide", super smart and striking portrayal of our clown world ssdhfhds All this to say is that I do not DEhumanise these haters, I know where it came from but I still disapprove of this culture of reactive paranoia)

Okay enough with my ENTP bullshit and back on the subject; aro/ace spectrum Malenia headcanons are valid! As well as your suggestion about her keeping professional distance with her knights. For example, it is reasonable to assume that she felt guilt since all her Knights inflicted inevitable decay on themselves to stand by her side:

What if Malenia had emotional barrier, if not deep guilt for existing, that no amount of Finlay's convincing that she wanted this fate could break? What if the issues Malenia developed through life of both idealisation and demonisation (both are dehumanising) made her push someone, especially a subordinate, away upon assuming they "don't know what they want"? What if she is afraid of relationship because, since Scarlet Rot can sprout stronger in reaction to emotional pain (as we seen from Millicent blooming if she was betrayed), Malenia is scared shitless to harm another person or herself should relationship ever cause deep pain? Or what if Malenia forsaken considering relationship altogether because she identifies as 'blade of Miquella' and is not willing for any bond to become more important than that (and someone can expect romantic love to eclipse familial one, it depends on the perspective).

There are many directions to take in either why Malenia might not love Finlay, love but not want to date Finlay, or not love/date anyone. Why she either can't or doesn't want to! I have a couple of two other mutuals who are scared to tell anyone they don't 'see' Finlenia because even a deep analysis of the character will be received as attempt to "invalidate a representation"! One of them also thinks Malenia ships don't work period because it's hard to let romantic feelings bloom under so much physical and mental illness, speaking from perspective of a person with physical disabilities and severe depression themselves! Also a very valid perspective! Again, do we then want to argue about whose projected experiences "deserve" validation and whose don't? The hell we do :/

In the end of the day 1) fandom is not a majority rule and thus they can't just "collectively decide" how to interpret canon that IS left open to different interpretations, especially using problems like bigotry as an excuse or even weaponizing their identities. What will happen if a lesbian saying the heretics that don't ship Finlenia are all homophobic meets a lesbian that also doesn't ship it? I don't wanna know. 2) culture of reactive paranoia is bad, let's NOT become Yharnam Huntsmen

[ruthlesslistener]

you mentioned malenia being kinda like an sjw and I realized smth.. radahns like the opposite, a status quo warrior. he looks up to powerful ppl like godfrey, follows his warmongering ways, hold the stars for sellia and ended up obstructing ppls fate. we only know he wants power during the war. dont know if he wants to change the structure in any way. maybe thats why radahn attracts many dudebros who tend to be sqws that hate non conforming characters like malenia

,,,shit I didn't even realize that, though that's probably because I never gave much thought to Radahn (he just bores me, nothing against him. I like Morgott + Mohg and Miquella + Malenia bc they're cursed. Radahn's just a bro). Personally, I'm kind of hesitant to fully agree because the comparison I made to Malenia being a sjw was just to explain why gamerbros seem to hate her so much more than Radahn, as they're both technically noble demigods who did horrible things post-shattering, but from an outsider perspective I do think that it makes sense as to why people dislike them, even though in-game they're both pretty much the exact same person- that being a highly respected, highly competent warlord who were made into rot-ravaged nightmares on the whims of an Outer God. Lemme compare 'em for example

Malenia:

-Buff woman who whoops ass with sword, which is not what women are supposed to be like

-Fights for brother, which further inverses the usual storied gender roles of a prince fighting for his sister's defense

-The cause that her brother is invested in is challenging the status quo and offering acceptance to all of those shunned/harmed by society

-Brusque and confident in herself; does not have the gentle maternal air that other female fromsoft bosses have. She reminds me more of a rabid wolf than a woman, which I personally really enjoy but again challenges gender roles

-People seem to consider her the warmongering conquering force more often than not, which doesn't make sense because, like...they all are? That's kind of the unifying point of the demigods, their hunger for power and their inability to give up. Also the campaign to Caelid seems to have been an attempt to retrieve her brother instead of actually capture land, so there's that

Radahn:

-Big buff man who whoops ass with sword. Literally every dude's gender presentation goal, including mine. Can't fault the beef here

-Fights for his country and his men, which is again what is expected from him as a demigod prince

-Looks up to Godfrey, a brutal conquerer, and actively made attempts to gain more land. Again, this is typical of the demigods, but a lot of people who focus on Radahn's 'haha horseman' vibes seem to forget that he marched on Leyndell with the attempt to conquer it, unless they're arguing about whether or not

-Given that he's holding back the stars to prevent Ranni's fate from becoming A Thing, I think it's fair to say that he's trying to maintain the status quo. This is most likely because if Ranni's fate aligns, his chances of becoming Elden Lord become slim to none, but it's still an example of keeping up the status quo

See the contrast now? While in-game, Malenia and Radahn are just two sides of the same coin, there's one thing that lead to Malenia getting nonstop hate and butthurt ranting while Radahn was universally enjoyed, and it's that Malenia flips the norms while Radahn abides by them. Again, this isn't really something that applies in-game, since gender in the Lands Between seems to mean basically nothing, but it does explain why people react differently when they encounter them; because Radahn is the token character that you're SUPPOSED to root for, while Malenia challenges socially-prevalent ideals and thus generates a certain level of discomfort in the viewer, even if again, she and Radahn are character parallels.

[dimitrscu]

people who think malenia was only fighting radahn out of petty spite because she wanted to be seen as the ‘best’ demigod or whatever are honestly so brain dead it’s actually unreal. all these characters with really interesting, complex motives and then there’s malenia who’s apparently just some toxic pvper lmao