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artist-issues · 7 months ago

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Okay here are some questions that are all related but could have different answers depending on the slightly different phrasing.

Do you think that Paladin Strait is gonna be the point-blank end of the saga? The final message will just be, 'the cycle continues' and their next album will be totally something new? (gosh i HOPE not that would be the worst) But if they do this, do you think they'll 'justify' it to their fans?

If it does continue, how do you think THEY will continue/end it? (positively, what we [you + me and maybe others who have similar worldview] WANT)

If it does continue, how do you think THEY will continue/end it? (negatively, what we FEAR they will do)

How do YOU wish they would continue/end it? (99% sure i know the answer but im curious how you'll phrase it exactly)

What do you think the biggest strengths of the Clancy story have been?

Biggest weaknesses?

What are you still drawing question marks on for the whole thing?

About Paladin Strait:

Okay, I hope and tentatively believe that that’s not what they’re doing. I don’t believe they’ve ever been pointing to a big “You’ll Always Struggle Forever” theme. It’s been almost fifteen years, I just have never gotten that impression (until this last album, but I still don’t believe it.) But, if that is somehow the hopeless message they’re perpetuating? I don’t think they’ll have to “justify it” to their “fans” at all. The majority of the twenty one pilots fandom justifies everything the band does, for themselves. Unless it comes to the band refusing to speak on social issues that the fandom has decided are important, and unless it comes to the fans not getting to stand where they feel special in an arena. I’ve seen the fans demand an explanation for those sorts of “lack of action” from the band. But I’ve never seen the fans get upset about any song or performance. They basically make the songs mean whatever they want them to mean, like the majority of fandoms do. So they’ll say “that’s a beautiful message,” no matter what the message actually is.

I don’t know how they’ll end it. They’ve always stopped short of a resolution. They go, “There is a problem (acknowledge it;) here’s how I feel about the problem; here’s what keeps me in the problem; and here’s how I’m crying out for help with the problem—“ but they’ve rarely, ever, said, “here’s how that cry for help is answered, definitely.” Taxi Cab and March to the Sea get the closest (of their “canon” stuff.) Everything else ends with the cry for help, never the answer. So, if I were to respond to “what do you think the answer will be, if they finally tell us about the answer?” I would say: they’ll point out that it has to be “Someone Outside Yourself, Who Knows You Better Than You Do, Answers the Cry For Help.” I hope the Torchbearer will, in some way, save Clancy. Even if it’s pulling his body out of the towers after he’s defeated so it can’t be seized. Some kind of saving. Because that’s what Taxi Cab and March end with; the spaceship takes Tyler up and shows him who to follow instead of the Dead Line, but he has to keep choosing that New Direction every day until the march is over. Or the Three Men hijack the hearse, pick the lock on his casket, and take the Dead Man to the Morning Sun. See, even when the Cry For Help is Answered By Someone Outside of Yourself, they end it on “but the journey isn’t over.” But at least there’s new direction in those songs, not the same old direction. Death-to-Life direction. I don’t know, though, and that’s what has me biting my nails.

About How I Think They’ll End It (Negative)

I don’t love thinking about this because my emotions are real tied up in whether they do or do not step out in faith. But I will point out that the worst-case scenario is, just to answer this question: the worst-case scenario is that Josh has decided there is no One True Faith and he’s into Eastern pagan religion that he associates with Christianity now, and Tyler has decided that whatever might be true about Christianity, the organized-religion Church is wrong about it all, starting with the LGBTQ+ stuff, and so he doesn’t know what’s right but he’s happy with that because it means he can keep “searching” and “imagining.” Like the “journey is the destination, we’ll never really know,” stuff. Which is not Christianity. It’s not true faith.

C.S. Lewis, The Great Divorce

Because faith is focused on something bigger than and totally outside of yourself, yet real and knowable. Faith in “I dunno what it is, but there’s somethin big out there I guess I believe in, but we’ll never know what it truly is” is just a cheap disguise for “faith in my own understanding and control.” If you don’t know exactly what the object of your faith is, then you can pick and choose the things you like out of vagueness. Whatever, I can make a post about that later.

But if that’s where they’re at—I am not enjoying thinking through this right now—then the thing that makes most logical-story-sense coming out of that mindset, to me, would be “Clancy becomes the new leader of the Bishops, but ushers in an era of sunshine and imagination instead of the cold bleak walls of the city. What they burn down is the organized-religion analogue aspects of DEMA.” I think that would be a super stupid way to end it but maybe.

That’s worst-case. I think second-worst case would be “the cycle continues.” Clancy wakes up in his old room, the Banditos are gone, the neon gravestones are glowing, and then he like looks down and sees a flower, indicating that the Banditos are still out there and he has the chance to re-start the cycle and do it all better this time… or give up based on the idea that nothing will ever be better. And we end on a twenty-one-pilots-esque “Pick One” ending. I think this is the most likely ending, because it’s not an ending at all, and it will keep the religious crowd and the secular crowd both happy. Plus, as far as the story describing Tyler’s wrestling match with doubt and dark thoughts? It would mean he gets to keep wrestling, which, I hate to say it, has produced lots of successful music so far. But you know what, so would a winner to the wrestling match, because truth is worth more than success.

Third-worst-case scenario—Clancy “dies,” taking down the Towers of Silence with him. And all the Glorious Gone zombies fall over Phantom-Menace-style, leaving battered Banditos standing. And they live to fight another day; Nico is still out there, probably ready to seize and rebuild; but the Torchbearer goes to Clancy’s body and looks somber and takes the mask off of him and carries it away, or some other type of nod to that old performance of Time to Say Goodbye—but the point is it’ll end with the idea that Clancy goes on, but “Clancy” was always a character, an idea, a belief, that anybody can embody if they’re willing to sacrifice themselves so that others can get their focus off of Dark Thoughts. You know, kind of like how Tyler Joseph gets them to focus their ability-to-hurt-myself-energy on him, as a performer, instead of on themselves (Guns for Hands.) This is semi-fine because it’s about some form of self-sacrifice, but I don’t like that the emphasis is on “if I just sacrifice myself for the hope that things can get better, it’ll somehow help people, even if I don’t know what the Hope is.” It would obviously be better if someone outside of Clancy brings about the resolution to Clancy’s story.

FOURTH-worst case scenario—as in, the least bad of all of them—Clancy fights and wins against Nico by using his ability to “seize” Nico, and burns down the towers, and dies or disappears doing it. This is good because Nico dies, and good because of self-sacrifice, and cool because he uses “seizing” his Dark-Self-Focus and puppetting it, rather than letting it puppet him, is very close to what they’ve always been saying: the Biblical Idea of Taking Your Thoughts Captive, and using art as an introspection-weapon. BUT it’s bad, because then it makes Music the Savior, in a sense.

I wish they would end it like this:

Clancy is seized by Nico, who pilots Clancy’s body over to the window of the tower and shows the Banditos, fighting, that their hero has been defeated and is being used. It’s super disheartening, because the implication is maybe this was always going to happen, Clancy was never going to escape, or worse, Nico knew the plan and it was always doomed to fail, because somehow Clancy was always under his power, and Clancy is doing some kind of demonic dance or demonstration with yellow eyes showing that he’s nothing but Nico’s vessel now—but Clancy’s still fighting Nico’s control, on the inside, mentally. (In a music video I guess they could cut-away, between what’s happening outside of Clancy’s head as Nico shows the Banditos that he’s been defeated, and then cut-away to Tyler singing and fighting a battle in Clancy’s mind, trying to re-take control.) But Clancy’s losing the mental fight, too. He just manages to get a kind of moment of control back—maybe his eyes go back to being their normal color instead of seized-yellow—and he basically does this as a cry for help. Then Nico takes over again.

Clancy is seized, he can’t save himself, he’s tried everything and followed the plan of the Banditos up until this point…and it didn’t matter. This defeat is where it’s led. He’s overpowered, seized, back in the same grip of the Bishops, and the Banditos could look, lose heart, and be disheartened, and lose, even after all this work. So he’s managing to fight off Nico just long enough to get that “I CAN’T DO IT” message to the Torchbearer. And the Torchbearer understands. Because he’s not down there on the ground with the Banditos. He’s up in the tower with Nico and Clancy, and has been all along, and now that Clancy flashes the help-I’m-in-here-but-I-can’t-do-it message through his eyes or however they want to do it—THEN Torchbearer saves the day. I don’t much care how, as long as Torchbearer saves the day. I think the best way for him to do it would be to straight-up kill Clancy and that kills Nico. Because they were always connected. And then it seems sad, like Clancy was always going to be the sacrifice, as DEMA burns up. But then at the last second in the music video (or however they end it) he opens his eyes, and the Torchbearer helps him up. And the Clancy mask is burning along with Nico’s robes in the background, something like that. Because if Nico is Self-Focus (which leads to anxiety, depression, and most of all insecurity) then Self-Sacrifice, death of the Self, so that you stop considering yourself so much, is the only cure. And we both know only Jesus can kill your old self and raise you up a new creation.

But they don’t have to do it exactly like that. Torchbearer could beat the Nico out of Clancy, like Jenna Joseph does in the Tear in My Heart music video. That would be acceptable, because it would go with the idea of “Someone Outside of You Who Loves You Despite Your Imperfections Can Beat Your Insecurity About the Imperfections Out of You.” You see, the reason I want Nico to seize Clancy is because this whole time, Clancy has been relying on his ability to seize the bad guys as a method of defeating them.

Using Music, getting inside your darkness and then making it work for you, is the closest twenty one pilots has ever gotten to a functional-savior in their story. But the truth is that only works for a moment. It’s just a bandaid solution. Music can help you see what’s wrong, and help you feel control over what’s wrong by virtue of understanding it and making it work for you…but then eventually, you know what happens? The thing you’ve created becomes what you place your faith in, and then it has power over you.

But in like layman’s terms I guess you could just say: “Boy Feels Darkness -> Instead of Giving in to Darkness, Boy Makes Music About His Darkness -> Darkness Works for the Boy; Others Hear and Like the Music -> Darkness Appears to be Controlled by the Boy as a Way to Connect, Inspire, and Be Successful -> Boy Can’t Stop Focusing on Darkness or Writing About Darkness, Because That’s What Made Him Famous -> The Darkness is Not Defeated, and It’s More a Part of His Identity Than Ever. Who Is He Without The Darkness, Now? It’s Not Gone, and It’s In Charge”

You see? I know I’m saying it five different ways but at this point I’m wishing I was saying it to him.

Demons don’t care if you think they’re powerful, or if you think they’re powerless. They just care that you’re not thinking rightly about them, either way. It’s not “Ignore the Darkness,” and it’s not “Make Everything About the Darkness,” either. It’s “There is Darkness, and it is powerful, and acknowledging that just makes the LIGHT LOOK EVEN MORE POWERFUL.”

So Nico has to seize him. When all along he thought he’d be doing the controlling. And then someone from the outside has to save him.

What do I think the strengths have been?

The idea of seizing. That is so good and perfect. Because creativity is what gives Clancy the ability to seize, but it’s not a perfect solution. The Bishops can use that, too—and guess what, they did, they used Scaled & Icy.

Even Trash the Dragon, who was supposed to represent limitless imagination, is the symbol of that Bishop-Propaganda album—which is interesting, because it makes limitless imagination look like a bad thing, if it’s being used by the bad guys. But also, it’s dead, because the dragon was able to be seized, meaning it was a corpse. So Limitless Imagination was dead all along? Oh but wait, its corpse can still be used—by Keons, who is a bad guy? No, because he betrayed the other bad guys and freed Clancy using Creativity to Revive Limitless Imagination for one specific purpose. And if it’s for one specific purpose, then it’s not limitless. Imagination shouldn’t be limitless, or else you can imagine you’re worthless. It should be used for one specific purpose instead—setting you free from the bad thoughts. UUUUGH that’s so good.

And the contrast between Natural Light (fire, which also happens to be destructive and can get out of human control) and Man-Made Light (neon, which is stale, sterile, and totally under human control.) Goes perfectly with the contrast between a wild, green continent called Trench—and a lifeless, concrete, circular (cyclical) city made by man.

Plus, of course, Torchbearer. Torchbearer being three-and-one. Torchbearer being the leader of a group who wear yellow, a color the bad guys cannot see—and he’s also only able to be seen by Clancy when Clancy’s imprisoned. But sometimes he’s not seen by Clancy and Clancy doubts. But ultimately Torchbearer has always been with Clancy, and always had a plan, and even the Bishops can’t escape being made part of his plan. Torchbearer having an X that lands over his heart made of yellow tape—which looks like a tilted cross. Torchbearer having tape wrapped around the knee where Josh Dun has Tyler Joseph’s name tattooed. Torchbearer having a yellow bandanna that covers his face in the same division mirroring where the Bishops have black smeared.

Also, the fact that Clancy, as a character, is never sure what’s going on. When the whole story is about trying to decide where to go, and why. It’s about a journey and whether or not the destination is worth it. And the main character himself wrestles with that so constantly. He doesn’t know if the Torchbearer’s plan is going to work. He doesn’t know if the Bishops are really all bad, or if the safety they provide makes up for it. He doesn’t know if he’s having dreams or if he’s somehow seizing vultures and seeing real things. He doesn’t know if he wants to leave the city, or stay—and when he figures that out, he doesn’t know how any of this could’ve been planned. He;s constantly trying to separate the good from the bad and figure out which side he’s on, where the attacks are coming from. That’s his whole character.

Polarize is taking your disguises Separating 'em, splitting 'em up from wrong and right It's deciding where to die and deciding where to fight Deny, deny, denial

Domingo en fuego I think I lost my halo I don't know where you are You'll have to come and find me, find me

I'm navigating, I'm navigating my head Give me some advice I am wasting all this time My, oh my Don't know how long it's been My, oh my

And then on the other side? Torchbearer’s role is to guide? They're the perfect pair. Clancy never knows what’s real or not real, what’s going to work or not work, who’s right or wrong, or even what his role is. The world is a dark map and he can’t find himself in the “You Are Here” Dot. But TORCHBEARER lights the way.

Biggest weaknesses in the Clancy Story?

I don’t know because I’m not sure what the Point is yet. I could try to pick apart where the story isn’t doing well with “form” (everything used to deliver the point, the mood, the character design, the pacing, the dialogue, all that) but this is a story embedded in a series of albums and music videos and lots of mixed media. So it’s told in basically the most engaging way it can be told, it’s genius, I have noticed no weaknesses.

…unless you want to say, “the story is too unclear and vague; you can’t understand what they’re trying to say because they’re not really saying anything.” You could make an argument for that. I would be able to pick that argument apart more easily than I would be able to make that argument, though.

Endings mean concluding. Conclusions mean a Point. You can’t end a story without revealing whether or not you had a point. So we’ll find out, I guess!

What Are My Question Marks?

What’s going on with Keons? I can’t figure out Keons at all. I can’t figure out why Keons betrayed the other bishops, what led to that, how he’s connected to Ned.

What’s the Car representing? The car at the beginning of Heavydirtysoul and Jumpsuit—it’s burning onstage for the whole Trench era. It’s a Cadillac, it looks like a charred up version of the one from the No Phun Intended album, so is it supposed to represent a former mindset? It keeps recurring, so it means something, I just haven’t figured out what. The closest I get is “that’s the music, or how he used to use the music.” But I’m not sure.

What does the smearing have to do with the Glorious Gone? The letters make it sound like it’s just for dead people, but Clancy’s been smeared in the music video for Levitate and in Jumpsuit. Am I supposed to believe he was dead all along and being seized by someone this entire time? If that’s the case, he hasn’t been aware of that, according to his letters.

Who was Clancy talking about in that one letter when he was captured by the Bishops and said “He was never there, I would have felt him?”

Above all, what does Tyler think of God now? Where’s he at in his faith? Is he still struggling with the same stuff I am or is it a different blend?

I think that’s all for now.

#asked #answered #twenty one pilots #top #tumblr clique #twentyonepilots #Tyler Joseph #Josh dun #Clancy

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