#elmike meta

[gayofthefae]

Still not over how Mike and El only got a ONE scene and a few SHOTS without Will stealing it, more often than not by being sad, and it was this

Everything but 4x03 was about Will. They have a compilation on Netflix's YouTube up from season 4 and even THAT has an entire section dedicated to Will.

Airport kiss? Awkward hug with Will.

Roller rink? Will correcting El for lying and overall "moping and rolling his eyes" (he even stole the scene for Mike)

Arguably, it's even influential that their fight takes place as a result of Mike leaving WILL at the breakfast table, and it's SHOT TO REFLECT THAT.

Reunion? Will reunites with El too, standing between their reunion in the camera even. (And Mike looks at him weird while he gets up)

Pizza scene? *Almost* but actually let's cut to what Will's doing: oh, he's watching them sadly.

"I love you"? Will urges Mike on and it cuts to a shot of him being sad as Mike says that admitting your feelings hurts.

[beaulesbian]

something something,

if they parallel mike to hopper so much

they should give him the sword in s5 to complete the set!

edit:

the hellfire club logo also has a flaming sword on one side of a creature/dragon that looks very similar to the S1 drawing

(like the ears? at least that’s what got my attention on the hellfire logo, because i knew i saw some similar ears on a creature before)

[mlchaelwheeler]

Why Mike and El Shouldn't (And Won't) Be Endgame

Before I start this analysis of sorts, I just want to say that yes, I do believe byler will be endgame, but I will be taking an objective perspective to Mike and El's respective characters, as well as their relationship with each other. That aside, let's dive in!

Mike and El meet at a very eventful time in both of their lives. For Mike, his best friend of 7 years has just gone missing. For El, she's just escaped a prison (the lab) where she's spent her whole life. They are pushed together by a mutual need: Mike needs El to find Will, and El needs Mike to survive the real world, and stay away from the "bad men." It's clear throughout S1 that Mike and El have created a special bond--while some call it romantic, I don't think that's really on their minds. What they want (and need at this point) is a strong friendship.

El has just escaped from the only place she's ever known, thrust into a new world she knows nothing about, and in which she knows no one. Should she be jumping into a romantic relationship 2ish days after meeting Mike? No, she absolutely should not. I doubt she even understands what romance is, let alone the difference between being Mike's friend or his girlfriend--to her, they likely mean the same thing: Mike cares about her. It's the same for Mike. S1 shows (and tells) us over and over again that Mike isn't thinking about El as a possible girlfriend. Lucas tells him: "if you love her so much, why don't you marry her?" Dustin questions why Mike doesn't understand why Lucas is upset and has to spell it out that Lucas is jealous of El--jealous that Mike is wasting time on her when they could be looking for Will at the lab. Even Nancy asks Mike if he likes El. To all 3 of these querys, Mike responds negatively or is confused. He clearly isn't thinking about El romantically, but he is starting to realize maybe he should be, since everyone is asking him about her.

For me, S1 is the purest and best form of Mike and El's relationship. It's their true dynamic together before they're forced to conform to outside expectations. Once S2 starts, we see El watching romantic soap operas on tv, likely shaping her view of what romance is like. After her rushed kiss with Mike in the S1 finale, she's likely realizing that this means she's Mike's girlfriend now, and should be initiating romantic interactions between them. From the soap operas, she's getting a very over exaggerated view of what romance is--however, she has no way to tell that it's not realistic. In soap operas, people break up all the time and get back together the next episode. It's normal, right? She sure thinks so. This will go on to skew her views of her relationship with Mike. No matter what they go through, or how he treats her, it will always work out in the end. That's how the soap operas go anyways. El is clinging to a sense of perceived normalcy because she so desperately wants to be normal for once.

While Mike doesn't see El much in S2 (he's with Will all season), he calls her on the radio every night since she goes missing. Lots of people read this as romantic and a big love confession of sorts, but I think Mike would've done this for any one of the Party. Time and time again, we're shown how loyal Mike is to his friends--remember, this is the same Mike who jumped off a cliff to save Dustin's teeth!! He obviously felt massive guilt over El's "death" in the S1 finale. She slept in his basement, helped him find Will alive, relied on him to keep her safe from the "bad men," and then "died" keeping him and his friends safe? No wonder he called her every night hoping she was still out there--after all, he did see her that same night outside his living room window, so he did have a reason to hope she'd actually hear him. Again though, if Lucas or Dustin would've disappeared instead of El, I think Mike would've called them on the radio too, trying to reach them. Remember, all throughout S1, Mike believed (not really) that Will was dead--and even saw his body!--but still attempted to contact him over the radio multiple times. If he did this for Will, obviously he would for El too. These are parallels that should be noticed together.

Moving on to S3, this is the first time we see Mike and El as an actual couple. This is obviously the first relationship for either of them, and it's made clear from the start of the season that they're not better together than they are apart. Whereas their interactions are sweet and inclusive of their friends in S1 and S2, come S3, they're ignoring everyone in favor of constantly making out. They don't even really talk to each other! When Mike tries singing, El tells him to stop and just resumes kissing him. When Mike tries to find El a gift at the mall, he is unable to do so--not because he doesn't have enough money, but because he has no idea what she'd actually like.

The sad thing is, no matter what he'd pick out, El would probably love it, because it's from Mike. S3 makes it clear El hasn't grown her sense of identity at all since escaping the lab--nearly 2 years prior! She sadly asks Max at the mall, "how do I know what I like?" She's never actually stopped to consider what she might enjoy because she just always goes along with whatever Mike or Hopper tells her. That's not really anyone's fault, it's just how it is because they're teaching her about the normal world. She's been learning so much that she hasn't had time to stop and think about what she enjoys. Luckily, the break she gets from Mike allows her to explore other possibilities--new styles, new food, and new friendships. Her time with Max is the time when she arguable gets the most growth character-wise in the series. She can focus on herself without being caught up in Mike.

I should also point out here that the story makes it clear that El only grows as a character when she's apart from Mike. This is intentional--when she's Mike's girlfriend, she is stagnant as a character. In S2, her solo adventure to discover her past helps her understand her roots and develop her powers. She becomes more independent--traveling to Mama's house and Chicago by herself, which is a huge step for her after not leaving the lab for 12 years. Then, she gets back to Hawkins and "defeats" the mindflayer, but from that point on her character falls short, as she goes back to Mike. She regains this sense of independence and agency in S3 after she breaks up with Mike, and has more development up until she loses her powers. When 3 months go by, and she's moving, she seems to be back to how she was before the breakup--completely dependent on Mike. We see this again in the opening of S4. Her room is a literal shrine to Mike! She has't made any friends, has isolated herself emotionally and physically, and is sending letters full of lies to Mike. When Mike arrived in California, they go back to their old S3 selves, but things are a bit off because El's covering for her lies. She's obviously angry because Mike can't tell her he loves her, so she's in tune that something in their relationship is wrong. Unfortunately, El sees her worth as being tied to her powers, so when Dr. Owens gives her the opportunity to get them back, she jumps at the chance. Maybe Mike will love her if she goes to become a superhero again. After all, that's why he "fell in love" with her in the first place right? Because she used her powers to find Will and save them from the demogorgan?

El's narrative has been building up her independence since the beginning of S2. She has to realize that her powers do not define her--she's worth so much for just being her! If Mike tells her he loves her just after she gets her powers back, it will feel cheap. El should be affronted by this, and should rightfully call him out. Mike can find thousands of other reasons to love El besides her powers! If he can't say it, well, there must be a deeper reason. I think that by diving into her past, El has been able to understand her trauma more fully and grow from that, triggering her hopeful resurgence of independence. However, the story has made it clear that she can't do that while being in a romantic relationship with Mike.

Speaking of Mike, let's look closer at how his interactions with El have changed after becoming her boyfriend vs when they were just friends. I think everyone can agree that Mike and El were adorable in S1. Their smiles, their understanding that they were both missing something (a home and a best friend), and their actions say it all. However, these are all platonic things, and I think they both viewed themselves as just friends until other people brought romantic feelings into the equation. In S1, Mike shows lots of emotion when interacting with El: his smile and voice after she saves him from the cliff ("El, you're not the monster, you saved me. You saved me!"), explaining what friendship is, setting up the basement fort for her, yelling at Papa as he takes her away, etc. Mike also shows emotion with her in S2, before they're properly "together." However, his interactions with her feel much more forced and unemotional with her from S3 onward. He doesn't even seem a bit sad after El breaks up with him--if anything, he seems offended, not something someone who just lost the love of their life should feel. When he tries to clue El into his feelings in the grocery store, he stutters around the real words, unable to make eye contact or say "I love you." When she confesses her love to him before moving away, he doesn't respond and looks downright confused after their kiss. When she confronts him about "from Mike" in S4, Mike is stiff and unemotional as El sobs in front of him. He blames other people for their problems when the real problem is himself. This isn't the same Mike as S1-2, where he would've shown at least some emotion and done anything to make El feel better.

These are key narrative choices that the show has been pushing to show that something's not right--things are not as they should be. If we step back and look at Mike and El's narratives as a whole, it's clear that they're both worse versions of themselves when they're together. Mike becomes an unemotional puppet of himself, simply going through the motions of being in a relationship. El becomes completely dependent and lost in a fantasy world of soap opera-type relationships, and is unable to cope with faced with real-world problems. If the show has constantly pushed this idea, how does it make sense that they'd end up together? Why stunt the development of 2 main characters just to have Mike and El end in a romantic relationship? It's clear that they're the most genuine with each other--and the rest of their friends/family--when they're platonic with a capital P. The narrative isn't building up to a big romantic confession, it's leading to a mutual understanding that they never shouldn't rushed into a relationship they neither wanted nor understood in the first place.

[chirpsythismorning]

Rewatching s1 and… just being full serious for a second, I used to ship milkvan, like I thought I loved them in s1-2. Then when s3 happened I sorta lost interest. And in between the long hiatus between s3-4, I discovered the theories about the ending of s3 and byler and started to watch the show differently. Since then it’s just been a transition from thinking Mike and El were cute romantically, to being indifferent about it, and to just being sort of off put by it entirely by this point. Especially after all the analysis about Mike and him seeing her as a superhero with what we got in s4 in canon, it’s sort of ruined their dynamic for me.

If you guys thought the parallels between Brenner and Mike in s4 were bad, holy shit it somehow manages to be worse in s1.

There were literal scenes of Brenner forcing El to find someone for him, followed scenes of Mike, Dustin and Lucas basically doing the exact same thing to find Will.

Don’t get me wrong. I do think Mike did genuinely care for her as a person who was vulnerable and needed someone to protect her, because she was literally in danger.

But when she started lying to them about leading them to the gate, and hearing Lucas’ comment about how she was only doing what they asked because she needed a roof over her head, etc., technically, that wasn’t far off…

She doesn’t know Will, therefore she has no obligation to keep hurting herself in order to please Mike and prove herself worthy to Lucas and Dustin, by finding Will, just so that she can stay.

Do I think that makes them or her inherently bad? No. I just think that there was an obvious miscommunication here, where El wanted to be cared for, and to have someone to depend on, and she thought that in exchange she had to do these things to get it, ie. Find Will.

I don’t think Mike genuinely even felt like her only value was finding Will, but the circumstances were pretty bizarre. His best friend goes missing only for Superman to land on his doorstep and say that he’s alive. While it might not be his intention to use her, he is giving that impression and that’s undeniable watching s1.

What makes her sacrifice so sad at the end of the season, is that Mike had just gotten to a point where he was starting to see her as a person and not just a girl with superpowers. And right at that moment, she sacrifices herself to save them. A selfless act of the many she’s been doing all season. And now Mike feels awful. Because he’s realized that he used her for his benefit, to find Will. And at that point, they didn’t even find Will yet. So at the moment, her sacrifice was for nothing.

Whenever she wasn’t successful, he lashed out and pushed her away. And yet in the end she practically killed herself for him and his friends. I feel like if Mike had empathy and regretted his behavior, then his literal reaction in the end, to her ‘death’, does make sense and fits pretty well with someone experiencing survivors guilt.

Because although he’s got his best friend back, and that’s what he’s most focused on, he’s simultaneously feeling this immense sense of wrong doing on his part. He feels indebted to her now, in the same way she may have felt indebted to him for helping her and putting himself in danger to do so.

So I think s4 is just a part of this cycle, of Mike not understanding that he’s wronging her until its said and done.

So, more than anything tbh, I just want her soooooo badly to lash out at him in s5… and not in a dramatic way, but in a necessary way that I feel like is required for them to go from romantic to platonic without any bitterness.

I remember reading someone say that they hoped that we got a scene that paralleled Mike to El in season 1, when he said “You hurt me. Do you understand? What you did sucks!” And I don’t need or expect it to be word for word exactly like that, but something along those lines. Where as soon as El starts speaking and telling Mike how she truly feels, about their relationship and everything that they’ve been through, no bullshit, I just know as soon as it gets real, as soon as she calls out his idolization of her and his obsession with her powers, and how she hates that and she’s been through that enough, I honestly think it’s gonna click for Mike and he’s gonna listen and accept it and take responsibility for not being fully honest with her.

I am a byler truther forever atp, but it’s also really important to me that Mike and El end things in a way that feels true to what they both deserve out of it, in terms of closure. Especially El!

Which means that they’re both honest about everything from the beginning. And I think once we get that (if we hopefully get that), it’s going to give the audience closure too.

[apatheticlexicographer]

semi-continuation to my last post.

this is very long but believe it or not i've already condensed it a lot from my first draft lmao. i've divvied it up season by season. this is basically a summary of mike and el's respective friendships, as well as their friendship with each other. i've tried to be as objective as possible.

season 1: mike is fiercely loyal to all his friends, and considering how strained his family situation is they're probably the people in the world he holds closest. he's shown to be willing to do just about anything for his friends, throwing hinself off a cliff for dustin and sneaking out in a storm to look for will, and they're his clear priority. when he brings el in he offers her his friendship in return for her help in finding will. she has never had a friend before, so she contextualizes what a friendship is supposed to be entirely from what he shows her. despite bonding a little, they can't communicate in much depth and ultimately know little about each other, although mike shares much more than el. most of mike's positive feelings about el are based on awe about her powers, and most of el's positive feelings about mike are based on gratitude.

overall, el and mike are tentatively friends, but don't know each other well.

season 2: mike is upset about el being gone, and while he has hope that she's still out there he doesn't really act on it like he did with will, although to be fair it's been almost a year and he saw her "die". this season mike yet again revolves around his friends. he's constantly looking out for will, but doesn't treat him too differently. they continue the trend of being the most honest with each other, which was softly established in the first season, and carries through the rest of the show. mike is jealous of max when she first appears, as she captures lucas and dustin's attention. by the end of the season, though, he comes around to her. el doesn't make any new friends of her own this season. she watches mike, but can't talk to him, furthering the gap between them as el has effectively known mike for a year but mike has really only known her for a week. she meets kali, but doesn't spend long with her and doesn't connect with her gang. el is also jealous of max simply because she sees her getting along with mike. when they reunite mike is understandably furious that they were kept apart, but they don't interact much.

overall, while they don't really speak, mike and el seem set up for their relationship to deepen in the gap between seasons 2 and 3

season 3: despite seeing each other frequently for 6 months, mike and el don't seem to interact much outside of kissing. they also still don't seem to know much about each other, and mike can't even begin to think of what el would like as a gift. mike does still hang out with lucas, will, and max, but he barely sees dustin even after he gets back from summer camp. he spends most of his friendship time with lucas, but even this centres around advice on getting el back. will is mad that mike isn't prioritising his friends anymore, and when he snaps mike lashes out before immediately apologising. the damage has been done, however. el finally makes her first friend of her own free will when she starts to talk to max. despite having had 6 months they somehow haven't bonded properly before. within only a few days of friendship, el is already much more emotionally open than she is with her boyfriend of 6 months. el tries to bring emotional honesty into her relationship with mike, but mike dodges it awkwardly, even as she's leaving hawkins indefinitely.

overall, despite having had ample time before and during the season, el and mike fail to actually strengthen their friendship at all. they aren't quite strangers, but even though they met a year and a half ago they've barely progressed past acquaintances.

season 4: mike's friendships are all over the place, as are his motives. he is still very close with dustin, and has newly befriended eddie and at least gets along with the rest of hellfire. his friendship with lucas is suffering due to mike's resentment over lucas joining the basketball team. max has distanced herself from the group, but mike still pays attention to her. meanwhile, he and will have barely spoken since the end of s3 and their relationship is severely damaged. mike finally apologises to him, and by the end of the season their friendship is mended enough that will comes to him about his feelings on vecna. el, meanwhile, has made no new friends, despite trying. this is clearly deeply affecting her, and she feels the need to lie about it to mike. she has will now, and while we can assume they're fairly close we don't see them talk beyond a line or two. we don't see mike's letters to el but we know that he's still avoiding emotional honesty with el. he won't tell her he loves her even when she breaks down and begs him, and it takes will sacrificing his own love confession to el and then prompting mike for him to finally say it. even then, he's not exactly saying it to her face as she can't reply. ultimately el's concern for max, who is still her closest friend despite an unknown amount of contact between the seasons, is what prompts her to break free. el and mike do have a sweet scene before mike's confession, where they behave more like friends than they have since season 1. after his confession, though, el starts avoiding him, and mike seems unusually unbothered by it.

overall, their friendship has only grown more strained, as it has been filtered through lies and intentional distancing. when they do start to platonically bond, el seems to cut mike off after his confession.

in conclusion: while they were building a frienship in the first couple of seasons, ever since they started dating this began to stagnate. they are each substantially closer with their friends than they are with each other. they are increasingly dishonest with each other, worsening as the seasons continue, despite the fact that the first thing mike taught el about friendship was that friends don't lie. if they stay together, there's absolutely nothing indicating that their friendship will ever recover or develop.

[11byers]

jancy/elmike subverted ending parallel (pro byeler) (st theory/meta)

we need to talk about this bc the duffel bags are actually kinda clever sometimes.

s1 jancy ending parallels s3 elmike ending, which is... interesting. at face value, it would mean elmike’s endgame, bc jancy’s obviously endgame. but the duffers kinda do something that turns elmike on its head.

in s1, nancy rushes to give jonathan a christmas present. in s3, mike helps el get her teddy bear from a shelf she can’t reach. these two shots are identical.

then, nancy’s giving jonathan a christmas present and mike’s talking about christmas. but mike goes on to say how he sounds like a seven year old talking about presents... and then even tho nancy’s giving jonathan a present, she goes on to say how it’s not really a present. it’s a subtle way of tying these two scenes together.

so, there’s no real awkwardness that happens in the jancy scene. keep in mind nancy and jonathan are always facing each other. while in the elmike scene... it’s made a point that they’re not on the same page, w both of them seemingly just putting on a happy front. as soon as they face away from each other, both their faces fall. although it’s hard to say what exactly they’re thinking... they’re both noticing that something feels off.

this is when elmike starts to parallel stancy.

in s1, when nancy goes to sit next to steve, she’s not happy. either steve can’t really see her face, or he doesn’t think too much about it (i wanna say the latter bc that would parallel how el doesn’t seem to consider how mike’s not smiling when she goes to kiss him). although steve and nancy are sitting together, there’s a clear lack of emotional reciprocation on nancy’s part - similar to how there’s a lack of reciprocation, both physically and emotionally, on mike’s part when el kisses him.

then the elmike scene literally combines the jancy kiss w the lack of emotional reciprocation of stancy to make for a deliberately confusing scene.

and then, as the audience, we’re left wondering why mike looks so confused. but in the s1 scene of jancy/stancy, it’s not really a mystery as to what nancy’s feeling.

the s3 ending started with elmike paralleling jancy, but quickly subverted that and became a stancy parallel. and we have to keep in mind the order of scenes. nancy goes to sit next to steve after her scene w jonathan. mike’s scene with el comes after his scene with will.

the byeler scene, although short, has the same openness and clarity as the jancy scene from s1. they may not parallel in terms of context or cinematography, but they both show what their counterparts lack. the byeler/jancy scenes are the duffers’ way of saying this is what a real connection looks like.

[gayofthefae]

Very old draft but @gardenfairie pointed out a while ago that I incorrectly listed the prison van scene as one that didn't have Will.

It did. He's standing on the left there. Jonathan isn't, so we know his presence is purposeful. He's even purposefully focused in the rule of third, this case of the holes in the door perfectly dividing it even. He has his left third and Mike's center. He was blocked as present. As El pulls away he makes a confused gesture.

It starts with just Mike but as it pulls out you can see that Will has run after him up to the curb, and it cuts back to El and to this again.

When Mike and El fought, they ended the scene he came from with Will to emphasize that he was leaving WILL rather than going to El. When El was taken away in the prison van, Mike pushed Will out of the way to get to him and Will can even be seen in El's pic as she pulls away in the van. In the pizza scene, it's revealed that Will was watching the whole time so it was somewhat in his POV. The closest they ever have is the very short moment where he chases after the police car when she's first arrested. Even then, though, with the lines right before it, I remember being more focused on her brothers defending her "I'm her brother" -Jonathan "that was an accident" -Will, and the use of the word "promise" just hurt.

Their only scenes of much one on one without Will are her resigning. There's only one true moment and it's a promise she doesn't believe, and arguably even then. He isn't brought up while she's at NINA. Mike never thinks about her alone or without bringing Will into it. This season was not about them. It was about Will witnessing them.

[gayofthefae]

The only times Mike and El are in a scene with Will integrated into it are when they fight. The only times Mike and El are in a scene where they aren't interrupted are the roller rink fight and the van scene.

I'm thinking about that. I'm thinking about the implications of that. How Mike and El's joy is only ever through an unreliable narrator and how Mike and El's pain isn't. How, when left to their devices, Mike and Will's conversations, if left to their own devices, will become so truthful it crosses a line and, one way or another, one of them will have to backpedal and cover their tracks.

How all Mike and El need to do to break or Mike and Will need to do to to get together is be left in a room together too long. How it's inevitable and they're already instinctively moving that way.

[gayofthefae]

Thinking again about 70/30 and how yellow flowers symbolize friendship and purple flowers symbolize admiration.

"You know how I feel about you. You're the most incredible person in the world."

[gayofthefae]

Thinking about how in season 3, it was established that Mike can't date El and be best friends with Will in the way that he is in the start of the season. Then, INSTEAD OF resolving his conflict with Will and getting back together with Will, they resolve his conflict with El WITHOUT them needing to get back together, establishing a sustainable state of being broken up, and don't really resolve Mike and Will's core problem.

"Mike can't be with El AND Will." Okay, so there are two options here: prioritize dating El and just make sure to spend more time with Will so he doesn't feel neglected; prioritize Will and stay broken up with El so there's no conflict.

AND THEY CHOSE THE SECOND ONE.

They established in season THREE that the conflict of balancing the two could be solved without dating El but the conflict between Mike and Will COULDN'T be solved without them dating. In season 4, they doubled down more clearly, but they inherently established that by not really addressing that plot conflict.

We enter the season 3 epilogue with Mike and El in a good place platonically, having resolved their core issue of trust and space. We enter season 3 epilogue with Mike and Will not having come back to the issue that caused their fight at all. No, I do not count standing together in the background. While that is an effort, "we fought about you ignoring me and then you were forced by the supernatural to spend time with everyone as a group" is not a directly addressed resolution.

Mike and El's plot was resolved without the need for romance. Mike and Will's was not. Implying that they do have a need for it.

They did that. That was season 3. They established getting back together as not required and by doing that, established as the solution to Mike and Will's problems, because if you can solve every issue without getting back together, why complicate things and add the problems back in to be solved again? There's no reason to and the audience knows it.

They established the solution for all parties as a breakup.

[gayofthefae]

Tell me why all the bit Milkvan moments in season 3 aren't just theirs, they're somehow Will's, Lucas', or Max's.

They're happy? Will is sad. El is mad at him? Lucas is instructing Mike. Mike is reaching out? He's fighting Max to do it.

It kind of makes me curious how the screentime compares.

[gayofthefae]

The way it's always like this. Always mutually exclusive or connected when it doesn't have to be. "I felt like my life started that day we found you in the woods" didn't have to align to imply that about the day Will went missing but much of the GA noticed it DID. El needs to save Max with memories; what memories? "Not Hopper. Not Mike. You." they didn't have to set that up in season 3 for their central relationship to be based on her not being with Mike, but they did. "[I didn't call] Because she's my girlfriend Will! And we're friends" those two things don't need to contradict each other in his mind; similarly, "I was focusing too much on El and, I don't know, maybe I feel like I lost you or something" - can one not split one's attention? They even have done so with Hopper and Mike in El's life. They did. not. have. to.

They make things mutually exclusive that don't have to be to get you to equate important things like El and Max or Mike and Will's relationship to inevitable action that needs to be taken like a breakup. They don't do this with other relationships. Lucas and Dustin notably make up before Lucas gets with Max in season 2 so that those relationships don't contradict. Max has helpful flashbacks of both Lucas and El in season 4, even focusing on memories of El at one point while in a memory with Lucas - they even INTEGRATED them! It's a choice.

[gayofthefae]

Thinking about the famous picture of Mike, El, and Dustin hugging on the ground and how it started as a moment between Mike and El but they added Dustin to make it about friendship and not romance.

[gayofthefae]

Let's talk about inciting incidents. If you don't know[if you do skip this paragraph], an inciting incident is a piece of a story required to start the plot. If a character does an action they haven't done up until now, they need an event to motivate it. There needs to be a reason that they're doing it now that differs from when they weren't doing it. For example, El would not have broken up with Mike had he not committed the inciting incident of lying to her, that would have been out of the blue and raised the question "why now?"

But now I wanna talk about Mike and El staying broken up. They stay broken up after El finds out the truth of what Hopper said to Mike. That makes some sense, Mike is still avoiding full responsibility...but then they make up. And they still don't get back together. But don't worry, don't worry, THEN we have our inciting incident

....or what should be. Mike saying "I love her" sure feels like an inciting incident, doesn't it? You expect it to really push the story along and into new territory. Except for the fact that we know now that El heard that too and...she didn't do anything about it. Yes, she seemed happy and interested when he tried to say it, but she wasn't interested in getting back together with him enough to bring it up herself. Which means that it isn't the inciting incident as it has resulted in inaction for long enough that we need a new one.

Okay, so I think it would just be easier to skip ahead to when she DOES do something and work backwards, right? She tells him she heard him, that she loves him too, and kisses him to get back together with him at the end of the season. Working backwards, the inciting incident to this would not be the truth in episode 4 or the ily in episode 6(?), as we've established, so it must be....oh

Hopper died. And she's moving to California. Everything in her life is changing. She needs comfort. She needs stability. She needs constancy. She had multiple opportunities to get back together with him but those events expired their ability to be "inciting incidents" when they failed to motivate her into action. One could argue that a person in life may wait to see if he'll say it and Lucas' book says she and the Byers went away with Owens for those two months so she was unable to, but one could counterargue that they both don't establish that in the show and there is no reason within narrative structure to stall it but to, similar to Mike in season 4, imply that the motivation is something else.

El does not get back together with Mike when given the repeated option, including at multiple instances when she is given new information and motivation to do so and the original reasons for the breakup resolve. She only initiates that with him when her life is being uprooted. She gets back together with him for a sense of constancy in her life. She reverts back to him for comfort.

*which he ends up failing to provide, which she confronts him about the day her bully rubs in that her dad is dead and while repairing his figurine in her diorama. It's all about seeking comfort and constancy. She wants to return to what her life was at the beginning of season 3, but she only needs it after a major trauma. She does need Mike romantically, but she only wants him platonically and that has been confirmed since season 3.

[gayofthefae]

Thinking about how Finn said that “personal growth” and “learning things about themselves” thing not about Mike in the chair like I misremembered (I grouped it in with the “normal” line) BUT IN RESPONSE TO A QUESTION ABOUT MIKE AND EL’S RELATIONSHIP.

Listen, I know that El learned knew stuff and that is clear. But the idea that Mike learned new things about himself and went through personal growth when the primary focus was on his joint relationship implies to me that that wasn’t the only thing he was thinking about.

Also, I am thinking about the things he did need to learn about himself for the introspection required for the I love you speech, but it almost feels like an omission of more unreliable narration that we weren’t let in on the transition of him figuring that out - seemingly between the painting scene and the speech but including prior, more ambiguous scenes.

It was a payoff to him not saying I love you for both of them on the surface but actually...what was it a payoff to? Because conceptually the like structure pitch is “he can’t say I love you then he does” not the PLOT. So it is FASCINATING to me that it wasn’t emphasized to us at all. Like no further scenes to show how El feels unloved after that one scene for the rest of the season other than parallels GA wouldn’t catch. And more importantly, we did not see Mike’s inability causing him any pain or making him feel pent up. We saw it clearly causing him guilt. But there was no emphasis or representation whatsoever of what he was actually going through. The anxiety reasoning wasn’t presented until right before - in the previous episode to the speech. Everything else was ambiguous and seemed to be more guilt oriented surrounding how it made El feel that he couldn’t and the following events causing her to leave. He felt at fault for her leaving and possibly being in danger and he felt bad about how they left things. He wanted her back. But that is a separate concept from how he was feeling about being incapable of saying it even BEFORE she brought it up. If she hadn’t been hurt and there hadn’t been consequences...would he have been comfortable? What internal effect was it having? Was there torment? Was he trying to say/write it? Did he not even notice and just subconsciously omit it? 

The fact that we don’t know is what’s crazy to me. Because it means that the set up and payoff are bookended but not earned. We are told he can’t say I love you and she’s sad about it. We talk about other shit for 7 episodes (yes, including Mike, because I am not counting guilt, only explanation). Then he says I love you. EMPHASIS ON We talk about other shit for 7 episodes. It was not about them. Mike felt guilty and El was preoccupied. We are told we should care but it just feels weird. Because honestly? I DO care! But the way that the writers handled it dampened that a little bit. It didn’t ignite it. Not in a like dampening joy sense just like a flame that wasn’t tended to and died out. It wasn’t tended to. They didn’t maintain anything but “I couldn’t tell her but I wish I had told her...you know...that”. Okay so all we know total is that he wishes he had been able to tell her and she wishes he had been able to tell her but we don’t know WHY he couldn’t tell her and we only know that she wishes he HAD been able to tell her. We don’t have enough details to know if saying it now would even fix things because the thing that hurt already happened! It might fix things! But we were given insufficient information to know that!

It feels earned. But only for the people watching the show for them. It would be like Byler kissing in season 5 episode 1. It’s out of the blue. It’s unearned. The fans following subtext are excited, but your average Joe was NOT paying attention to those side details and implied subtextual messaging enough to know or care or get behind it. Nice. Good for them. Now what else is on. If you’re just a general audience member, it satisfied just enough. It’s a band aid. It’s a slapped on excuse. It’s a question’s answer spat out just for the people who don’t care enough to ask any more. “What’s gonna fix that” “I love you” “oh...ok...fixed”. It’s for the people who care about the concept of a plot conflict being resolved more than the specifics of what that conflict or resolution even are. There was a question. There was tension until it was answered. It was answered. Nobody cares what the answer was.

If you think about it, there is only a setup and payoff - no build. That’s not how that goes. That’s not how writing works - at least not when you’re trying for that. You can’t just say “I want this”, wait a while and then give it to them. They didn’t do anything to achieve it. Mike was venting but we didn’t watch him do any sort of work on himself or introspection or anything really to achieve what he seemed to. Even his reaction to the big thing that supposedly would cause that adjustment wasn’t shown to us. And El’s plot wasn’t even about that at all. If anything, the fight was a driving force for her to run into the arms of her main plot. They essentially created a clear and easy setup, executed an unrelated complicated and planned plot, and then were like “oh yeah” and wrote an ending.

Except, obviously, they didn’t. They would have done that if they didn’t care. But they do care. Which is why it was purposeful.

It’s just like what I just said about the M&M’s season 3 season in the hospital being right in the middle of the action. They don’t want you to care about their romantic relationship. They don’t want you to be against it and they want you to be in support of them in general, which is why they have plenty of scenes with focus like the pineapple pizza scene - platonic and happy. But multiple of their payoffs are plotlines are deprioritized. From the start. Mike and Lucas were fighting and they needed to stick together to find Will - One of El’s narrative functions there being to drive them apart to hinder that ability. Mike was with Will and El was finding her family. El was with Max. It was one-sided). El was regaining her memories and Mike was struggling with guilt.

They have always either had other primary focus or only one of them was focused on the other. And what did all these seasons end with? They kissed after bonding, but amidst a focus of Mike and Lucas’ fighting and overcoming for the sake of friendship. They went to the Snow Ball together, but after spending the whole season with other people. They got back together, but after one of them not initiating anything in that regard (ironically, her grief caused her focus to shift - not that it wasn’t one of her focuses it just wasn’t #1). Mike said I love you, but only after she spent the whole season working through her lab trauma. Their plots were not buildups to their payoffs. They never have been. Because their payoffs have always been romantic. But the little moments sprinkled out have been what’s really important. While it hasn’t been emphasized like the unearned moments, it has been there throughout. ( Also I don’t know where to add this in but the distraction of Max cutting the speech off aka being a priority basically saying “other things are still happening” just like the cuts in the hospital scene did: “there are more important things” was more of the energy than them feeling connected at all.)

Because their platonic relationship may not be the big music swell, but it’s what will stick with you. Because those are the moments that were given the time and the true focus. They weren’t distracted from. Because those platonic moments are both the most important ones FROM their relationship and their relationship is not the most important thing from their individual storylines. So the built up arcs, the earned ones, have been something different. Not gonna list again but prime example: El telling Brenner no and standing confident in her decision rather than being told “I love you”.

They have important moments together but the moments that would supposedly end their arc for the season are unearned because the romantic nature and what they actually are was previously referenced but not built up. The moments given the time of day were not buildup or payoffs at all, but rather little in between moments where they simply enjoyed one another or offered understanding and support. Their plots are romantic and that’s why they don’t work. Because the most important part of their relationship has always been just being there. 

[gayofthefae]

Mike in the van and a self aware El in during Mike's speech are perfect foils. Mike is being told the "I love you" he's been wanting...from the wrong person. El is being told "I love you" from the right person...but she doesn't want it anymore.