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jack-of-heartstrings · 4 months ago

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2. "The stalking"

Addressing this first because it's shorter. This series runs on melodrama. Every single thing in this entire series is exaggerated at all times. Adrien can't just be a celebrity, he has to be the son of and model for the most famous fashion designer in the entire world. Chloe can't just be rich, she has to be the mayor's daughter. Andre can't just function as a normal mayor, we have to ignore every higher stage of government and treat him like the highest authority there could be. Felix can't just be talented, he has to be the youngest graduate in England's history with all kinds of accolades, any one of which would be wild at his age. Everything. is. exaggerated.

In the context of the world she inhabits, Marinette knowing Adrien's schedule for the next three years is no different than learning one's crush's class schedule at school and taking the long route between classes to pass him in the hall. This is not that weird, I promise. Please please please can this fandom stop taking ONLY this ultra literally. It is exaggeration. It is melodrama. You don't have to be a fan of melodrama but it's not unique to MLB.

"She doesn't have real flaws"

She has been, since season 1, someone who struggles with crippling anxiety and often makes stupid decisions as a result. This is such an intrinsically core part of her character that it doubles as her greatest strength as Ladybug: she overthinks everything, at all times, for better and for worse. Having the same trait serve as or fuel both a great weakness and a great strength for a character is actively considered good writing by many, many people.

It also is not strictly divided by persona nor a matter of convenience when it comes in handy. Marinette is extremely indecisive (which can also be a big flaw) and never truly knows what she wants for herself, but she is extremely driven, motivated, and clear-sighted when it comes to helping other people. This is more often the case as Ladybug, but also works as Marinette. When she doesn't see a clear benefit she can provide to others, or especially if she feels like she's let someone else down, she immediately falters, including as Ladybug. She cannot handle failure. (Another consistent flaw.)

Since season 1, she's lied to her friends and family constantly and not just to protect her identity; Lila is such a foil to her for a reason. Marinette doesn't do it for clout, but she does do it for petty reasons (a flaw!!). She's so afraid of being perceived and emotionally understood that she will invent different embarrassment to prevent that specific kind.

-More on Adrien in general:

Her crippling fear of failure coupled with her anxiety and difficulty dealing with her own emotions is also why she's Like That about Adrien, and I'm not referring to Derision. (Though I've just realized, as much as I thought it was a clumsy and unnecessary episode, given how many people didn't already understand what she was like, maybe having a Very Special Episode trying to spell it out was more warranted...)

When she falls for him at the end of Origins, it is genuine interest. She's not ~madly in love~ or anything, she barely knows him, but it's a genuine seed. She sees someone sincere and sweet and generous, someone clearly going through his own struggle but who still stops what he's doing to check on and try to help her, and that's the case every single time she falls for him and also what she's drawn to in Luka. (There is a specific visual format that plays every time this happens.) Him being sad and lonely was likely a huge bonus and the biggest difference between him and Luka, in terms of relationship dynamic; she saw someone she felt very drawn to, who also seemed like someone she could support and protect.

But what does she do with those budding feelings?

She buries them under 10,000 layers of fantasy. She ignores what she actually felt and focuses on more superficial things, easier things, stuff she has more of a clue how to handle. She has explicitly said multiple times on screen that she makes up stories in her head to exacerbate her anxiety on purpose, because if she's too busy worrying about trying to make things go exactly according to some convoluted plan, then she never has to actually do anything. She doesn't have to actually take the risk of being rejected or hurt, or worse, of being accepted only to disappoint him. It's an avoidance tactic, it's escapism, and that level of delusional coping is also a consistent flaw.

Through season 5 she got better because Andre unknowingly spilling her secret to Adrien, the Kwami's Choice two-parter, and Adrien initiating things all gave her enough of a push to get through the initial admission, and then she had a clear goal and way to help him, with standing up to his increasingly controlling dad.

In season 6, she's reverted partly because of the crippling guilt she's now carrying and lots of trauma in general, but also in large part because that goal is gone now. Adrien is free and doesn't "need" her for anything except To Be His Girlfriend, to let herself love and be loved without specifically providing anything she can measure, and that's terrifying to her. She feels like she owes him being THE best girlfriend Ever, no room for any errors, and it's setting her anxiety all the more in overdrive, which is making things worse, which is making her aware she's messing up, which is-- you see the cycle. But because she HAS grown, the ways she's handling it are still rooted in the same places, but expressed differently. Instead of acting like she did with Kagami, she learned from that and wants to become friends with Sublime. Instead of inventing stories in her head or turning to fairy tales, she's looking elsewhere for "how do I function" fantasies, some more esoteric like having a zodiac phase, some far more grounded, looking to real life happy couples instead.

The writing is imperfect. The execution can sometimes be rough. The characterization and development are both still generally good and it really should not be as hard as this fandom wants to make it to see that. There's a difference between bad writing and not understanding the writing. And there's a difference between bad writing and the writing not being what someone personally would have preferred. Writing is subjective, and I'm not claiming my own opinions are objective; I'm aware that even the episodes or scenes I think are painfully bad (very few!! but some) are enjoyed and defended by some people, and I can acknowledge that issues that aren't dealbreakers for me in episodes I thought were fine can still be dealbreakers for others. But the writing overall is often very good by a lot of metrics, even if it isn't always by every metric.

I'm gonna be talking about the hate of marinette and why I think she is hated.

Why I believe she is hated is because of the flaws in her writing.

1 - She's never shown genuine flaws. We do see she can get easily tempered and is clumsy but it falls into a trope where the main girl character is quirky and grows self confidence overtime which I don't think she should be "quirky" she should be a person with apparent flaws and the writing never truly gave consequences for it till seasons 4-6 but it still isn't great.

2 - the stalking being put off as another quirky trait of hers. It isn't quirky or funny, she doesn't need to know his schedule by heart. For me tbh it seemed like in the earlier seasons she was not in love but lustful and it makes sense tbh but it is portrayed as her being head over heels for him in a way that she can't even talk to him. It's fine if being socially anxious was apart of her character but I'm not sure if we see it in the show. Her stalking is literally put off as her just being silly and being in love with him which just makes it feel creepy for me and probably others.

I'm not sure what else to say than that but I do also wish she gets more development and that the writing hopefully gets good, but of course I don't think of her as a horrible character. There are far worse ones, specifically Andre bourgeois and Andre glacier.

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chibimyumi · 5 years ago

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Hi, I hope you're doing well and staying healthy. I've read your post about how Elizabeth attacking ciel is sexism. What about Sebastian getting bully by Frances? Frances is a noblewoman grabbing a servant's hair in front of other people. And fans (including me) are like: oh! What a lioness! Even the devil himself is terrified of her! what if it was the other way around? The idea of a nobleman grabbing a governess's hair calling her nasty and indecent makes me uncomfortable and even angry.

【Response to post: Sexism against men and Kuro Sexist jokes】

Dear Anon,

I’m doing well, thank you very much. I hope you too ^^

Your question is a very good one, and it really had me thinking for a while! I myself admittedly do laugh very hard at Sebastian getting a hard time from Frances. But indeed, like you said, it is still bullying, and bullying is bad. In this post-feminist era, we have been so trained to see women bullying men as ‘funny’ or ‘empowering’, but women getting bullied as unambiguously bad instinctively, that sometimes we forget to check our double standards.

Feelings are feelings, we can’t help what we feel. But how come then that to many of us, Frances bullying Sebas is so funny, but Lizzie almost murdering O!Ciel and Nina bullying men not? This post is merely an attempt to explain this feeling for myself too, but hopefully we can all reach SOME explanation together as well???

Let us first look at in what ways Frances has been making Sebastian’s life hard. From all the interactions we have of these two so far, her main points of criticism seem to be his hair and his lack of professionalism.

Slovenly Hair

Sebastian’s hair is something we’ve gotten quite used to now after more than14 years. In Sebastian’s time however, his hair really would have been the height of impropriety for his profession.

Just like I translated O!Ciel’s looks to 2020 standards, I quickly translated Sebas’ hair to 2020 standards as well. Very clean, innit?! Very professional, innit?!

Even without the translation however, if we look at the worst of wigs from the Kuromyus, we can also see how Sebastian’s hair would be atrocious in any formal setting. Look past the fact that these actors are supposed to represent a drawn character. Just imagine being in a fancy restaurant and encountering a dead-spider feather duster on your waiter’s head.... erm....???

Something that is objectively bad on Frances’ end however, is that chapter 14 is not the first time that Frances has seen his ‘slovenly hair’. If his hair really is so unacceptable, as an authority figure Frances has the right to say something about it. However, as it seems, until this point she has never communicated at all (no, “hinting” is not the same as communicating), so Sebas had no way of knowing what he “did wrong”. She immediately grabbed for Sebastian’s hair without mercy, probably because her crept up frustration got the better of her. This is indeed entirely too harsh for a first time call-out, and entirely on Frances.

Much later in the story Frances criticises and touches Sebastian’s hair again, and this time in public while he was infiltrating as a teacher. Here Frances is even publically humiliating Sebastian in front of his students and other high ranking guests.

Especially when you keep in mind that Frances is a noblewoman and Sebas a mere servant, Frances is indeed abusing her power against a servant who cannot strike back at all.

This is indeed power play. However, though it does not justify anything, in the very least her criticism does have ground; Sebas’ hair is by all measures inadequate for any professional setting. Just be nicer about it, Frances.

Useless Butler

Now, let us look at the other reason Frances disapproves of Sebas. Sebastian is a very competent butler according to most people. To Frances however, this claim is empty. When she arrives, parts of the estate have been destroyed and something very literally exploded in her presence.

Even though Sebas is not the person actively causing the explosion or the destruction, as the senior servant of the household, it is literally his job to manage the other servants. So yes, here too, the fact that things can be destroyed in the household because he either hired inadequate staff or because he mismanages his household, DOES INDEED prove he fails at his job. As the aunt of O!Ciel who cares about her nephew AND her paternal home, Frances is in her right to be concerned and call Sebastian out for NOT doing his job.

In chapter 14, Sebastian’s schedule was all over the place and kept changing the plans for Frances. It is no wonder that she would be quite annoyed and doubt Sebastian’s adequateness. When you know your 13 year old nephew’s household is in the hands of somebody so apparently inadequate, anybody would probably be concerned. However annoyed though, Frances does not overstep any boundaries about this specific issue; she is simply supremely unimpressed. Fair enough?

Compliments where due

Something that is quite interesting though, is that despite disapproving of Sebastian, Frances does also know when to compliment him when due. After Sebastian has saved Lizzie’s life without boasting, Frances recognised how the butler does indeed have some value and the correct attitude as a servant.

She says “though you look indecent what you say is true,” and it is yet another jab at the demon’s expense. But here she is also showing that she is willing to acknowledge somebody’s achievements, looking past appearances.

Before Frances leaves, Frances jabs at Sebas a bit again, but she really is not doing anything dickish this time. Instead of making Sebas think she’s simply chosen him as target to be a prick towards, she concretely states why she doubts his professionalism. She mentions the smashed tea set, bare garden and burnt food; mistakes that are objectively unacceptable. Instead of yelling at him, she actually gives him constructive criticism. So here too, Frances is quite stern, but her grounds are solid.

In the Campania arc Sebas shows up again with the hair Frances disapproved of. Frances clearly wants to do something about it again because in her eyes, the butler simply won’t learn. But given the circumstances and Sebastian’s proven usefulness, Frances actually does shelve her agenda. Just like above, here too Frances shows that she is capable of acknowledging somebody despite their looks.

Later when the zombies dramatically outnumbered the living humans, Frances sends Sebas - who had come to her aid - back to her daughter and nephew. By sending Sebas back, Frances also shows that she in fact trusts this ‘slovenly butler’ with the lives of two children she loves deeply. Sebastian protests, but Frances immediately replies: “don’t you trust our ability as swordsmen?” Here what Frances is functionally saying is: “I trust you with your abilities, so you can trust us back.”

In short, Frances is harsh and doing power-play against a servant, but she can shelve her agenda, and does acknowledge Sebas when due.

Contrast to Nina and Lizzie

So now we have seen how Frances bullies Sebastian, and her motivation behind all her points of harshness. As we have seen, Frances’ only points of criticisms are concrete ones; Sebastian’s lack of professionalism in looks, and his lack of professionalism in management. She goes about them too harshly, but all points are legit criticisms, and something Sebas CAN and probably SHOULD work to improve.

Nina

This is in stark contrast with the way Nina bullies her victims. As far as we have seen, none of Nina’s victims have offended her in any way, nor does she ever give any concrete criticism. She has just decided that because men are men, they don’t deserve proper treatment. Even when providing clothes for men is literally part her job, she refuses to provide the ‘professional service’ she is being paid for. And because she is AN EMANCIPATED LESBIAN!!!!!!! #FEMINISM, it’s FINE (!?!?!?)

Unlike with Frances’ criticism of Sebastian’s inadequate hairdo and managing, being ‘men’ is not something any of these men can do anything about (except Sebas, but Nina doesn’t know). Bullying is always wrong, always low. But it’s EVEN lower when you bully somebody for who they are, and not what they do wrong. What does not help is that Nina seems to only be capable of treating people nicely if they happen to be sexuality-wise compatible with her... but if you are, you’ll get molested. What is wrong with you, Nina????

Yes, Frances is saying: “you are a man, and yet your fringe is so long”. So on the most surface level, it is a woman saying this to a man because he is a man. As we later get to know Frances a bit better though, she would be harsh to anybody who looks slovenly. She just has different hairstyles which she considers appropriate for men and women respectively. Had Sebas been a woman and his hair was the ‘feminine equivalent of slovenly’, Frances would most likely have acted exactly the same. So in this sense, unlike with the jokes using Nina and Lizzie, it is not purely: “Haha, girl bullies boii, lol.”

Something else that is terrible is that what Nina does seems to be systemic. Logically it checks out too; it can’t be that only since the past few weeks she’s decided only women and young boys deserve her kind treatment. For all we know, Nina’s been treating the male Phantomhive staff like this for 2-3 years. Sebastian’s comment about Nina thoroughly ignoring men again with “as always” further supports this theory.

With Frances in contrast, in chapter 14 (so barely a year ago in story time), Sebas seemed to have no clue whatsoever about Frances’ terrors. Sebas announced Frances’ arrival to his master and is very calm about it. It was not until O!Ciel alerted Sebas about his aunt that anybody even guessed what hurricane was headed for them. As such, we can safely conclude that Sebas had only been subjected to Frances’ criticism a couple of times, unlike having had to bear with Nina for years.

Yes, Frances still should have communicated, but I already addressed the details above. Still, the point remains that even though Frances is overstepping boundaries and abusing her power, her criticisms are at least not empty.

Lizzie

Lizzie too just like Nina, had zero grounds for showing that much aggression. She did not give anybody the benefit of the doubt, did not communicate, or even so much as give O!Ciel any chance to explain the situation. So far O!Ciel has given Lizzie no reason to think he’d cheat on her, and yet she hurled so much aggression at him Sebas had to intervene.

Still, Lizzie is marginally better than Nina because she is not systemically bullying O!Ciel. It is a one time event. However, this one makes me more annoyed with Yana because it means that even Yana had to use this stale, stale trope of “LOVE TRIANGLE COMEDYYYY”. Have I ever mentioned how MUCH I hate love triangles and jealousy???

Conclusion

Feeling wise, the most important reason for why Sebas being bullied by Frances is funny is probably because of who Sebas is. Sebas is otherwise an all-powerful demon, but to see him inventing colours to shit at Frances - a human Sebas could crush between his fingertips like a cookie - is just hilarious. Had Sebas been a human though, I would not have laughed so hard personally.

Rationally however, Frances is doing power play against a servant who cannot talk back, so it is still bullying, and bullying is inexcusable.The only bit of “right” Frances has is that she does not seem to be systemically bullying Sebastian, and that her criticisms have some ground.

So if Nina and Lizzie’s behaviours played for jokes are like... a -7 and -9 respectively, Frances’ at least scores a -2 for me?

(Yes, as we’re talking about bullying anyway, I just have to make a jab at Vincent.)

Afterword

Something not really related to why “Frances:Bad”, “Nina-Lizzie:Worse”, but I do wish to mention is Yana’s improved drawing skills. I have no proof, but I think it MIGHT have been where this Frances-joke originated.

Yana’s time in the more traditional mindset of manga-worldview really showed, especially at the far beginning. Besides, she was still in the process of finding a way to draw handsome men. In the more traditional mindset of the early 2000s, handsome men were just not supposed to have slicked back hair - “that was reserved for old men and nasty dudes!!” Yana’s discomfort with drawing handsome men with slicked back hair was clearly visible in Sebastian’s early appearances, and making the ‘”hair, back!!! says old-fashioned lady” was potentially even a way of Yana to laugh at herself.

I don’t know who else is old like me and grew up with 80s to early 00s manga, but at the time, hair for handsome men was a BIG deal. In that world ‘slicked back hair’ just carried a certain laughability about it; a “rule of not-cool”. To me at least at the time this ‘laughability’ really resonated with me, and Yana probably also trusted this same ‘unspoken rule’ to resonate with her audiences.

Much later though, Yana clearly grew more comfortable and maybe even fond of slicked back hairstyles as she confidently chose to portray Sebas as ‘appealing’ while wearing his hair in the style Yana previously disliked.

Again, I have no proof, but I can’t help but think that if Kuro had started 10 years later, the running gag revolving Frances might look altogether different.

What do you guys think? ^^ Cheers, and stay healthy!

Character analysis Nina Hopkins

Character analysis Vincent Phantomhive

Sexism against men and Kuro’s sexist jokes

MASTERPOST Gender in Kuroshitsuji

MASTERPOST Analyses & Info

#Kuroshitsuji #Frances #Midford #Sebastian Michaelis #hair #joke #funny #tw bullying mention #Lizzie #Nina Hopkins

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punkscowardschampions · 6 years ago

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Fraze & Bea

Fraze: Did you tell her no yet? Bea: No Bea: and hi, how are you, too Fraze: Clock's ticking, babe. You don't want me to do it for us Bea: You mean you don't want to do it either Bea: 'cos you know we should go Fraze: I don't wanna 'cause she'll kick off which will make me kick off but I will if you're not gonna, like Bea: Well yeah, and she'd be the one with a point to argue, not you Bea: it's what Christmas is all about Bea: we've got no valid excuse not to be there Fraze: I've got plenty of points, I've made 'em to you and I will to her as well if that's what it takes Fraze: Our family is right here, we don't need to drag the kids there to prove another fucking point entirely Bea: It isn't worth starting a row over, come on Fraze: You know I've started 'em for less, come on Bea: Well can you not, just this once Bea: it doesn't need to be any kind of drama Bea: it's barely longer than a standard car journey Bea: they'll be fine Fraze: Yeah 'cause that's the issue Fraze: Any kind of family thing is a drama Bea: We can't avoid them forever Bea: may as well get it over with when the distraction of Christmas is there Fraze: Fuck's sake Fraze: Alright, you've got a point Bea: I always do Bea: must be annoying Fraze: That ain't the word I'd use Bea: Spell it out so small ears don't pick it up Fraze: You know I'm shit at spelling that's just cruel, babe Bea: Exactly Bea: be fucked if I didn't know how to get you to be quiet by now Fraze: I'll be quiet as you like if it means they go to sleep for longer than an hour at a time Bea: I'm not a miracle worker Bea: contrary to popular belief Fraze: Shh, you had 'em all fooled Bea: Piss off Bea: How bad can it be, yeah Fraze: If your big plan is that you go back without me, you might wanna go back to the drawing board Fraze: Like you said, there's no chance of working actual miracles Bea: Neither that stupid nor that kind to you to be making a plan like that Bea: just saying, the worst has happened, can't give retroactive advice/contraception Bea: so everyone will just have to deal and make best Bea: us included Fraze: At least we waited 'til you'd finished school if not uni Fraze: They can still all give out plenty of unwanted advice though, that small mercy aside Fraze: Don't you wanna keep 'em at arms length a while longer? Bea: Oh yeah, let's make it a competition, that'll be fun Bea: it's just their job, not like you have ever listened so you don't have to start now Bea: I'm fine with going back, obviously Fraze: Comparisons are getting drawn like it or not, always have been Fraze: Same goes for judgements Bea: Not between family Bea: there's no need for that Fraze: Don't be naive, especially between family Fraze: Joe'll score points just for turning up, Tommo'll get a few more for making it to 18 without knocking anyone up Bea: Don't be a baby Bea: or expect me to apologize or feel bad for you that you won't be getting a pat on the back this year Fraze: I don't Fraze: But don't expect me to go along with your pretence of not giving a fuck what they think Fraze: I know you do Bea: I don't Fraze: You ain't gonna get the points awarded for keeping hold of me, those are all Ali's for that lad not doing whatever immediate runner my Ma reckoned on Bea: I literally just said I don't care Bea: do you think I have time for point scoring Fraze: And I just said I know you do Fraze: What else is there to go back for? Stay here if you don't give a shit Bea: You wanna stay here because you do Bea: so how does that make any sense Fraze: I give more of a shit about us, what doesn't make sense about that? Bea: What do you think is gonna happen Bea: seriously Fraze: Do you have time for their bullshit or don't you? Make up for your fucking mind Bea: I've got no time for avoidance Fraze: Well done you Bea: Jesus Bea: you're doing my head in now Fraze: What, you suddenly don't want my congrats? 'Cause it sounded like you were really angling for that Bea: I'm angling for you to grow a pair, actually Fraze: Doing what I'm told by you ain't what grow a pair means Bea: No but facing your mother is Fraze: Sitting down to Christmas dinner and playing nice ain't even close Bea: and staying here doing fuck all about it really proves our point Fraze: What do you want me to do, beg her forgiveness? I ain't sorry for any of it and I ain't gonna be just 'cause she is Bea: Then show up for your family and show her as much Fraze: Jesus, I'd hate you if I didn't love you so fucking much Bea: You better Fraze: Marry me, I'll prove it Bea: Shut up Fraze: Say yes and shut me up Bea: You're so stupid Fraze: I'm not that stupid Bea: I've not got the energy to debate Bea: already told you Fraze: Then don't Fraze: I'm telling you I ain't, take me at my word Bea: I'm not that stupid Bea: I don't take anyone at their word, don't take it personal Fraze: You're not stupid but you are funny Bea: Hilarious Bea: shame I can't say the same for you really Fraze: Stop holding onto it, Red, it's been years since I played class clown Bea: Yeah right Fraze: Yeah right Bea: not that long since you were still in uni Fraze: I weren't in the laughing mood then, was I? Bea: Well, who was Fraze: Every other fucker on my course basically Fraze: Nobody who matters Bea: I'm not sorry Fraze: Nor me Bea: Sure about that? Fraze: Meaning what? Bea: Meaning if you wanna go back and have the time of your life then go right ahead Fraze: If I went back I wouldn't have the time of my life just like I didn't the first time Bea: Alright Fraze: Is it? If you wanna have a dig at me for jacking it in now's the time, like Bea: That's not what this is Fraze: It can be, if you want Fraze: I'm making it easy enough for you Bea: That's easy for you Fraze: What? Bea: Easy for you to think I'm being a cunt about not finishing uni when I'm saying the opposite Bea: if that's what YOU actually want, then go ahead and do it Bea: I'm not going to be the one to decide for you either way Fraze: I was what I wanted so I did it, end of Fraze: It ain't your decision and I weren't asking you to make it Bea: So as I said, alright Fraze: Yeah Fraze: And like I said, you still get to have an opinion regardless Bea: What, like I'm bothered? Bea: it's not the be-all-end-all Bea: you still have a plan Fraze: 'Course I do Fraze: I'm not a fucking amateur, or as much of an idiot as you like to reckon Bea: I don't reckon anything of the sort, moron Bea: I'm saying I know Fraze: Obviously, you know whatever's worth knowing, always have done Bea: Too right Fraze: So if you wanna go, we'll go Bea: We're going Bea: it wasn't ever up for discussion but glad to have you on board Fraze: You do make me laugh, babe Bea: Hilarious, I remember Fraze: Good, don't forget Fraze: You're gonna need that sense of humour when we get there Bea: You're so dramatic, honestly Fraze: You're so in love with me, take a deep breath, honestly Bea: Yeah, you're 2 months too late to tell me to breathe, dickhead Fraze: Well, they were 3 months too early for me to need to Bea: You could've, I wouldn't have heard you to be pissed off Fraze: Now you tell me, cheers Bea: Some of us were a little busy at the time Fraze: Don't worry, next time I'll properly take the chance to say whatever I like Bea: Were you even there or? Bea: what next time Fraze: I'm just saying, we once said there wasn't gonna be any time Fraze: Didn't stick to that, did we? Bea: 1. It was an accident Bea: 2. Once is enough thanks Fraze: I'm not trying to argue otherwise, like Fraze: I was there Bea: You literally were, oh my God Fraze: Yeah, reckon I said that a fair few times myself there and then Fraze: Not that God showed up Bea: Don't imagine he's any good with a scalpel anyway Fraze: Not good at fuck all but voyeurism by all accounts Bea: and plagues, give him credit Fraze: Yeah, those locusts really boss, like Bea: Exactly Fraze: You gonna support me if I go study religion then? Bea: I will Bea: but your dad? no way, like Fraze: Fuck him, never gonna be his fave anyway Fraze: Gotta be born a girl for that Bea: Poor baby Fraze: Not for long, Red, stick around for the riches Bea: Where do you think I'm going? Fraze: Anywhere you want Bea: My question still stands then Fraze: I've told you loads of times before, the world is ours, babe Fraze: and now there's 2 more of us Fraze: The only question is what do you want Bea: You Bea: Us Bea: that's all I want right now Fraze: I see that and raise you no more holidays that are in a fucking caravan Fraze: Winter ain't gonna last forever and just 'cause I let you talk me into going back there for Christmas, don't think I'm agreeing to that bullshit Bea: I don't think anyone is going to even suggest we can all fit into a caravan anymore Fraze: Do you wanna make that bet though? Fraze: If my kids never see the inside of a caravan I'll go to my grave less begrudgingly Bea: You're such a snob, babe Fraze: They're having the best of everything, no less, whatever it takes Fraze: And that ain't even close, simple as Bea: Don't need to tell me like I don't know the score Fraze: I'm just saying, my Ma can make all the comparisons she wants, we're not them and it's not gonna be like that Bea: It's different for you than it is me Fraze: I know Bea: But it'll be good different for them, that we can agree on Fraze: 'Course Bea: I'll start packing then Fraze: I'll be back to give you a hand soon Bea: Not that hard Bea: get used to having a massive bag full of nappies and bottles and spare clothes on you at all times Fraze: Maybe not the suitcases but the babies we can't just shove in there and zip up, slightly more work, like Fraze: Have you already wrapped everyone's shit or should I just throw it in a gift bag? Bea: They aren't getting their own seats so you will have to hold one of 'em, yeah Bea: and you really think I didn't get it all posted there Bea: not an amateur Fraze: Alright but if you didn't get Joe an even itchier jumper than last year I'm reconsidering this whole marriage thing Bea: Thanks for the tip Bea: I'll have to reconsider my gift, obviously Fraze: Shut up Fraze: Me too now I'm sending the ring back Bea: Ha ha Fraze: You can laugh the personalised engraving has fucked my refund chances right up Bea: Well that was your first mistake Bea: can't reuse it on another girl either Bea: rookie Fraze: Write me a list when you can find the time, babe Bea: Easy Fraze: Good Bea: You know you have to be nice to your sister when we're there Fraze: Do I fuck Fraze: You be nice to yours Bea: My sister didn't have a baby a few weeks ago Fraze: So what? Fraze: You'd kill her if she fucking did Bea: So what is she doesn't need drama from you right now Fraze: She ain't getting drama from me but she ain't getting a round of applause either Bea: I'm not saying you have to go that far am I Bea: just don't start either Fraze: You're saying keep my mouth shut but I'm saying why the fuck should I? Fraze: A supposedly high IQ and a boyfriend who supposedly ain't an utter waste of space don't change the fact she's still a kid Bea: Because what do you think it will achieve? Bea: Literally nothing Bea: you'll only make it worse, if anything, so save your breath Fraze: Instead you want me to sit back and do literally nothing Bea: Whatever, be the big brother you want to be Bea: I'm not getting involved Fraze: This is why we shouldn't go Fraze: It's bullshit Bea: What do you propose, you never see her again because it makes you feel weird Bea: Get real Fraze: Yeah 'cause what you're proposing is so much better Fraze: We all just pretend everything is fucking fine when it isn't Bea: You can't do anything about it Bea: it's her life to fuck up however she pleases, she weren't going to ask for your permission at any point, like Fraze: I can't do anything about any of 'em that's the whole point Bea: Yeah Bea: that's always been the case and always will be Fraze: Exactly Fraze: Why would I wanna sit there and act like I don't know that? Bea: 'cos that's life Bea: it's the same for everybody else Fraze: I hope one of 'em somewhere is having a convo about what a fuck up I am Fraze: God, if you're listening, like, come on Bea: Really? Fraze: Don't let me down, Ma Fraze: 'Cause if they think this is as good as everything gets and everything really is fine for this family then fucking hell Bea: This is news? Bea: Mediocrity is aspirational to most people Bea: if everyone was the best it'd be meaningless and we'd have nothing to do in the meantime Fraze: Cheers, babe Fraze: I wouldn't want anyone else in my corner Bea: Don't be disingenuous when you really mean it Fraze: I don't talk like you swallowed a dictionary at me when I'm declaring my love Bea: That's what that was? Bea: You should work on that Fraze: I won't put it exactly like that in the vows Fraze: You saved me, you know, that's how I know it's something that can happen Fraze: I don't wanna just leave 'em to it but I can't do the same for 'em either Bea: I know Bea: it's a fool's errand Bea: but a noble one Fraze: I hate feeling like such a stupid cunt Bea: I know that too Bea: kinda signed up for a lifetime of it though Bea: not saying I'm so smart, before you suggest Fraze: I'll say it for you Fraze: 'Cause you are Bea: Hmm Bea: thanks Fraze: It don't even feel like a compliment anymore 'cause it's just been like that, something I've known, since the first time I met you Bea: Don't be soppy Bea: I'm meant to be the hormonal one, you'll set me off Fraze: You want me to be nice to everyone but you? Fuck that Bea: 'Course not Bea: we're a team Fraze: We better be 'cause they want us to stay til after New Year's Bea: We always have been Fraze: Yeah Fraze: I ain't forgotten Bea: Should hope not Fraze: I'm so knackered I feel braindead right now but I reckon it's actually semi functioning Fraze: Take that kids Bea: That's something Bea: need all the funds we can get now Fraze: How are you? Bea: Now he asks Bea: fine, of course Bea: he's being grizzly but nothing I can't handle Fraze: Put up with me long enough, yeah? I know you wanna say it Bea: Now you mention it, like Fraze: Do you need me to grab anything on the way back? Bea: something to eat if you're planning on it tonight Fraze: Don't tell either of 'em it's part of the plan, like Fraze: Might get a second then Bea: You reckon they've already got malicious intent Fraze: I ain't ruling it out Bea: They are yours, after-all Fraze: They better be Bea: As if Fraze: Too early to tell if they look like me Bea: Do you want me on your side or not Bea: think on Fraze: I ain't surviving Christmas if you ain't Fraze: So depends if you want me to or not Bea: That depends if you wanna keep implying things Fraze: Come on Bea: You Fraze: If I reckoned there was any truth to it we wouldn't be having this conversation Fraze: You know that as well as I do Bea: Not very supportive Bea: but fair Fraze: I love you but I've got my limits, babe and I don't reckon they stretch to doing night feeds for kids that ain't mine Bea: Always good to know Fraze: Keep it in mind, yeah Bea: Back at you Fraze: Fuck that, I need your genetics to balance out mine Fraze: Especially now the model missus of my childhood dreams ain't gonna happen Fraze: No wildcards, cheers Bea: Please, don't let me stop you Fraze: Shut up Bea: Go on Bea: I said no Bea: practically a free agent Fraze: I'd rather you said no every time than some girl I don't want saying yeah Bea: Cute Fraze: Don't take the piss Bea: Me? Never Bea: You're just so adorable, babe Fraze: Tis the season for you to have a day off it, like Bea: Don't make me repeat myself Fraze: Why not? Fraze: You've signed yourself up to a lifetime of that Bea: They're all we've got to talk about already? Fraze: Christ, I hope not Bea: Let's never be those people, yeah Bea: another rule Fraze: I don't mind that one Fraze: I'll even swear to it Bea: No need to spill blood on it Bea: but good Fraze: No takebacks either way Bea: Yeah Fraze: Good Bea: How long have you got left? Bea: need interaction with an actual adult human Fraze: One foot out the door, babe Bea: Thank God Fraze: My sentiments exactly Bea: I have missed you Fraze: Yeah? Bea: You know I have Fraze: I know it's more fun hearing it from you Bea: Well I have Bea: can't claim the babies have too but you know Bea: they're selfish little bastards Fraze: It's alright we've established they're mine, you ain't gotta milk it Bea: 😂 Fraze: I've missed you Fraze: Them too Bea: It must be weird being away from them Fraze: It's fucked but I'm on my way back via the shop Bea: You don't really mind though, do you? Fraze: Like you said, we need all the funds we can get Fraze: Gotta do what I gotta do Fraze: They need you more than they do me right now Bea: Yeah Bea: and there's only so much time I can give them too Fraze: Exactly Fraze: What about you, do you mind? Bea: I don't know Bea: it is what it is regardless, like you said Fraze: Yeah, but if there's anything you wanna do different we'll figure it out Bea: I need to finish Uni Bea: I'm going to be there for a long time yet Bea: we can do it Fraze: 'Course you do and 'course we can Bea: I can take until Summer term, doing long distance Bea: but then I'll need to go back full-time Bea: still the plan, they'll nearly be a year Fraze: It's still a good plan Bea: I think so Fraze: No need to repeat myself going on about how smart you are then Bea: Still, always fun hearing it from you Fraze: Still, I've got other compliments up my sleeve Bea: Only if you're lying Bea: I wonder if the gym creche will take them this young Fraze: You can always lie about how old they are if not Fraze: Every fucker knows twins are smaller Bea: Especially ones that can't hold on Fraze: Go easy though, yeah? Bea: I'm not pregnant now Fraze: You know what I mean Fraze: It ain't been that long Bea: Long enough Fraze: Come on Bea: Don't be a baby about it Fraze: Don't be a bitch about it Bea: Shut up and come home Fraze: Shut up and listen to me Bea: Don't treat me like an idiot Fraze: Don't treat me like an idiot either Bea: I'm not Fraze: Bullshit Fraze: I know you and you should know I ain't gonna stand there while you go fucking mental over this Bea: It isn't mental to want to look good Fraze: Nah it ain't but you do Bea: If that were true you would've said it however many messages up so Fraze: If I'd said it however many messages ago you'd have said that you wanna get out of the house or whatever Fraze: I ain't telling you not to go I'm telling you not to go mad Bea: Not planning on becoming a bodybuilder, like Fraze: That ain't what worries me, like Bea: Don't worry Bea: I promise, I'll be fine Fraze: You know the drill by now, Bea Bea: Come on Bea: I'm not my sister Fraze: Your sister ain't my problem, you are Bea: Charming Fraze: A charm offensive ain't gonna get through to you Bea: Calling me a problem ain't gonna get you anything you want Fraze: Come on Fraze: I'm saying I don't care about your sister, I care about you Bea: and I'm saying you're making a non-issue an issue right now Fraze: Alright Bea: Is it? Fraze: If you say so, babe Fraze: I ain't calling you a liar Bea: Good Bea: Don't worry about me okay Bea: We have so much more important things to focus on Fraze: Fuck that, there's nobody more important than you Bea: I think you're legally obligated to say otherwise now Fraze: I wouldn't have them if it weren't for you Fraze: I wouldn't even be here if it weren't for you Fraze: It ain't nothing you don't already know Bea: Babe Fraze: I'll shut up now Bea: You know it's more than mutual, don't you Bea: You and me, always, no matter what Fraze: Yeah Bea: I mean it now Bea: no bullshit trial separation stuff again Fraze: I don't wanna be away from you when I have to be working, you ain't getting rid now that I'm on my way back Bea: I don't want rid Bea: never did Fraze: And it goes without saying how fucking beautiful you look but if you need to hear it you will Bea: I'm not desperate or asking for constant reassurance Bea: I'm not that girl Fraze: I know who you are Bea: Yeah Bea: It's just a lot Bea: I wanna feel more like me again Fraze: What else can I do? Bea: There's nothing else you need to do Bea: honest Fraze: But I still wanna Fraze: I'll look after 'em so you can go to the gym or wherever else Bea: I'd rather see you first Fraze: It don't have to be now, the offer stands Bea: Thanks Bea: seriously Fraze: You'd do it for me Fraze: We're a team, you said it Bea: I love you Fraze: Yeah, I know Fraze: I love you too Bea: Hurry up now though Fraze: We need to eat, babe Fraze: I've already pushed to the front of this queue Bea: Damn Bea: when he's a provider Fraze: When ain't I been? Used to provide you with drinks when we were kids, like Bea: It wasn't always you, thank you Fraze: You had your moments, cheers for each one Bea: How dare you Bea: it was a solid 50/50 Fraze: That ain't how I remember it Bea: Convienient Bea: you can't remember a lot of things Fraze: It really weren't at the time but it was worth it to impress you, I remember that Bea: I was not that impressed Fraze: Bullshit Bea: Not bullshit Bea: shut up Fraze: I'm getting in the car, you shut up Bea: Oh yeah, blame me if you crash Bea: that's nice Fraze: It'll be your fault Fraze: And my life insurance ain't all that either so you might wanna think on Bea: 😑 Bea: Go away then Fraze: See you soon then Bea: 💘 Fraze: You're gonna do better than that when I come through the door, yeah? Bea: Focus Bea: I'm NOT making you crash, remember Fraze: You're gonna make me do another detour if you don't say yeah Bea: Really Fraze: Alright no, I'm too tired to be fucking about but humour me, like Fraze: I wanna feel more like me too, and we both know who that cunt is Bea: I happen to like that cunt Fraze: Marry him then Bea: Ha ha Fraze: Pour me a drink, babe Bea: Watch me put it in a bottle Bea: 🍼 Fraze: I'll take what I can get, including those measures Bea: You ain't getting 8oz Bea: but nice try Fraze: That's only my first try Fraze: We'll see Bea: You will, babe Fraze: Nice try yourself Bea: Shut up or I'll start without you Fraze: Are you making that a promise or a threat? Bea: Keep me waiting and find out Fraze: [honey he's home cos honestly shh but we all know its a swag entrance cos he's really missed and loves them all] Bea: [renuinted and it feels so good] Fraze: [just kissing like they in a film casually instead of being two young harassed parents, have your moment babes] Bea: [live your best life lads 'cos the struggle is real] Fraze: [hence him coming in from the rain for that semi throwback cos yolo]

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