#except for the two epilogues but they don't officially count | Explore Tumblr Posts and Blogs

onceuponaneverafter · 6 months

Text

Let’s Talk About Jacks’s Apples PART 2

And again, their COLORS! Because after reading A Curse For True Love, I HAVE MORE TO SAY SO LET’S GET RIGHT INTO IT.

First, though:

You can find PART 1 here! It’s a quite thorough analysis of every single apple Jacks is ever described holding from Legendary to TBONA.

This post contains MAJOR SPOILERS for ACFTL. I will also reference my earlier findings, so spoilers for every book!

The focus of this post is on what ACFTL adds to my earlier analysis. For a summary of my findings, go to the end of part 1 (where we left off) or to the end of this post (general conclusions of everything).

Every non-canon conclusion I make here is just theories, based on my interpretations and observations! They aren’t the only right interpretations and I do not wish to present them that way.

The page numbers are from my ACFTL UK hardcover so if you have a different edition of the book, they may be a bit off for you.

That being said, welcome! 🍎❤️

So, to put it shortly: Because Stephanie Garber didn’t provide us with any answers about the apple colors, I decided to take it upon myself and go back to my trusted spreadsheet <3

What we did get is two new apples and more context, so let's get into it!

Table Of Contents

Introduction / Updated Spreadsheet

Why Apples? w/ the answers that we DO get in ACFTL, and my favorite new discovery!

ACFTL Apples

The Apple Colors (feat. me losing my mind over the lack of actual answers BUT I HAVE THEORIES and more thoughts on most apples!)

Conclusions / TL;DR

Introduction

The Updated Spreadsheet

In ACFTL, we get two new apples: one black and one white. I will take a closer look into these shortly, but here's the updated spreadsheet:

The total apple count (including apples from Legendary and Finale, which are presented in part 1) now looks like this:

This makes the total apple count 22, and the apples seen during the OUABH series reach the satisfying count of 15.

I don't know if there is anything intentionally symbolic about the total apple count, but I found with a quick google search that the number 22 can represent at least balance and harmony – which our beloved characters certainly deserve after everything they've been through.

Half of the apples are still white, while the rest are other colors - with Black Apples being the second most common. Like in part one, I will later go over all of the apple colors individually.

Why Apples?

New Information

First of all, let's appreciate the one time Jacks addresses his apples at all during ACFTL, after Evangeline asked about them:

"It doesn't matter," he said softly. "I don't need them anymore." –ACFTL page 381

This practically confirms that Jacks indeed has the apples to control his urge to kiss people in order to try and find true love (see part 1 or other people's theories for a more detailed explanation). Now that he's found true love and can kiss Evangeline all he wants (yay <3), he doesn't need the apples anymore. He's fulfilled his goal, and honestly, it's no wonder he's had enough of apples now:

"Her Prince of Hearts was never far from her, except for when she went to pick apples. Jacks never so much as tossed an apple any more." "– –Jacks preferred to avoid the apple grove altogether." –ACFTL, Waterstones bonus epilogue

While this is not officially part of the book, it's more context regarding the apples. If you want to read the entire bonus epilogue, others have posted it here on tumblr – if it would be helpful, I can post it myself/link others' posts as well. The other two bonus epilogues are available somewhere here as well.

Physical Movement

Alright, there are some interesting things going on here so let's get into some of my favorite discoveries!

In part 1, I pointed out how Jacks avoids touching Evangeline at all costs while he's holding an apple, and the interesting contrast that he does touch Tella while he has an apple in his hand (at least twice). While his apples are more or less his interpretation of self-control, this didn't completely align with it.

Now, I think I have figured out what's going on here! And it has to do with the way he would do anything (including giving up his only chance to go back in time to save Evangeline, and giving up his heart if it means no one can harm her again) to keep Evangeline safe.

He only touches Evangeline while holding an apple with not his hands (OUABH silver apple in hand, touches dagger to Evangeline’s lips), only because he has to and it’s complicated (blue apple in TBONA, Evangeline tried to grab the luck stone from Chaos) or he’s not himself at all and doesn't care about hurting her like he normally would (in ACFTL after he gave up his heart).

With Tella, he's always been reckless – not the least because he didn't truly love her, and because she didn't die when he kissed her.

I’d also like to point out that he kept carrying apples around after he kissed Tella and she didn’t die. Only once he finally found true love with Evangeline (and she also didn’t die when she kissed him <3) did he not need them anymore.

Regarding what he does with the apples, there isn't much new information. I still think it has to do with his emotions (see part 1 for a list), and the ACFTL apples confirm the theories I presented there.

ACFTL Apples

Page 101, Black Apple

It makes a lot of sense to me that this is the scene in ACFTL where Jacks has an apple. He's watching as Evangeline sleeps, convinced that she's better off not knowing him and that their story can't end happily. Still, he can't stay away from her. He is trying very hard not to get too close, though, which is where the apple comes in.

The apple is only described once, so aside from more context on its color (that I will get into a little later), there isn't much to analyze. What is particularly interesting about it, though, is Jacks's thoughts earlier during the scene that are connected to it:

He'd never understood why someone would watch another person sleep... until her. Castor did it. He said it was how he helped manage his urges. It did the opposite for Jacks. – ACFTL page 98-99

Considering that apples are what do help Jacks, this just further proves that we've been right about why he has them.

Page 289, White Apple

First of all, I love how Jacks is written after he gave up his heart. Evangeline says that he reminds her of when she first met him, and it really highlights how much he's changed throughout the series. He's gradually grown softer and to genuinely care about Evangeline – the development feels natural, even if there is a lot of it especially throughout TBONA. The way he acts when that softness is taken away creates a sharp contrast that wouldn't be so noticeable otherwise.

I also really love how even the apple reflects that. I will get to the color next thing, but let's take a look at what exactly he does with the apples (see chart above in Physical Movement).

Like I mentioned above, he touches Evangeline while holding the apple, which already sets the scene apart from the others. He never does that, not really.

Then, he drops the apple on the ground (before he tries to kiss her). While that isn't exclusive to the first half of OUABH where I don't think he has really fallen for her yet, dropping apples on the ground/floor is a pattern there, whereas most apples in TBONA and the black ACFTL apple are last seen in his hand. It's just a small detail, but I think it really adds to the contrast even if it's subtle and may not be intentional.

The Apple Colors

White Apples

In part 1, I said that I thought white apples either were the default color or represented focusing on what's important.

Now, with the context of White ACFTL Apple in mind, I think it's the default color. Half of Jacks's apples are white, and the one time he isn't himself at all (one could say he's even "defaulting" when he doesn't have his heart), he has a white apple.

With the first apple we ever see him holding (during and before the first time he meets Tella) also being white, I'm inclined to say that white is the "default color" for his magical apples.

Black Apples

I still think that Black Apples definitely represent doing whatever it takes, but I also think that their meaning has a touch of desperation as well – desperation is what drives him to do whatever it takes, isn't it? This is the one thing in common with all of the Black Apples:

Black Apple #1: Finale, last apple. Jacks offers to help Tella and the others in exchange for getting to control Tella's emotions forever. He's very desperate at this point, thinking it's his only chance at finding love.

Black Apple #2: OUABH, Nocte Neverending. Jacks is controlling Apollo's emotions because to fulfill the key prophecy, he needs Apollo to marry Evangeline. Even if he doesn't care about opening the arch, he's working with Chaos and has probably promised him that the Valory Arch will be opened. Overall, he has his plan and is willing to do stupid things for it.

Black Apple #3: TBONA, Chaos' place. Jacks brought Evangeline there to be healed because she'd been shot. At this point, I believe he already personally cares about whether Evangeline is alive or not. And even if he didn't, he would still need her alive – not only for the reasons stated above, but also because as a key, she feels each stone's magic the strongest (TBONA page 123).

Black Apple #4: ACFTL, Evangeline's bedroom. Jacks believes that the price he had to pay for Evangeline being alive was her memories being lost, and now his primary goal is to keep her safe. During this scene, he plans on leaving her for good once he "got what he needed" – I believe this refers to the protective glass cuff thingy that will stop anyone from harming Evangeline. Considering the price he paid for it, and the way she died in his arms only days earlier, he's very desperate to keep her safe in this scene. So, this apple also supports my theory.

Blue Apples

As we have no new Blue Apples to analyze, I still think they represent happiness and success – though maybe success even more than genuine happiness, because he has got something he wanted every time he's holding a blue apple.

Also, at the times he's genuinely happy, he doesn't even need any apples (The Hollow, which the cursed forest shows as the best day of his life in ACFTL, and his happy ending with Evangeline, when he says he doesn't even need them anymore).

The Golden Apple

We also didn't get any more Golden Apples to analyze, which is a shame, because this one's a struggle. I'm not so sure the Golden Apple represents Tella anymore because he's quite obsessed with her for a good while and he only has the Golden Apple after all hope of ever finding love with her is gone.

A noteworthy detail is that Jacks's blood is described multiple times to have gold flecks in it, so this apple could be connected to that – maybe he's feeling wounded, or it's more symbolic to him and the Golden Apple simply represents failure, heartbreak, and/or overall feeling broken? Tella did literally stab him in Finale, and at this point he still believes Tella is his one chance at finding true love, which obviously didn't work out even though it was supposed to.

The Silver Apple

This one is also still a mystery to me, and I mostly stand by what I said in part 1 – the Silver Apple could represent success but something being incomplete, being a "milder" version of the Blue Apples. Something about both being related to Jacks's eye color – which is being described over and over – seems significant.

I'd like to think the metallic apples, Gold and Silver, would have some kind of a connection with each other. The only thing I can think of is that these apples appear right before the scenes where Jacks tells Evangeline to fulfill a part of their deal – the Golden Apple is before Evangeline kisses Apollo, and the Silver Apple is on their way to the Fortuna castle, where Evangeline kisses the Fortuna matriarch's cheek.

Something that doesn't add up, though, is the fact that when Jacks is holding the Golden Apple, he isn't expecting to see Evangeline – he tells her he thought she'd be happily married to Luc by now.

This could be a storytelling element, like I suspected in part 1 that the purple apple might be. However, their deal is never fully completed, so we're lacking crucial context for this theory. It would have been fun if we had got a scene with him holding a bronze apple, before asking Evangeline to finally fulfill the last part of their deal.

The Pink Apple

I still think that the Pink Apple represents Evangeline, and I've only grown more convinced about this as time has passed. Before this scene, Jacks is only intrigued about Evangeline – one useful piece of information that we get from his chapters in ACFTL is that he's been interested in her from the second he saw her, but at first he only connected this interest to her hair color and the fact that she was a key (or that's what he told himself) (ACFTL page 100).

However, between the Silver Apple and the Pink Apple, Jacks saves Evangeline's life and spends a night holding her. I think this is where he starts developing a more personal interest towards her, and the pink apple represents that.

The Purple Apple

This one is still a struggle to me, because it doesn't seem to be connected to anything. I stand by my theory that either the purple apple represents royalty, nobility, or power, or is a storytelling element representing mystery.

The last scene where we see Jacks before the scene where he has the Purple Apple is the dinner with Elantine, before which he's holding a White Apple. He's hoping to take the throne, which makes sense in relation to the meanings associated with purple color.

Conclusions

To summarize all of my findings and conclusions, both from part 1 and part 2,

There are 22 apples in total that Jacks is described holding throughout the Caraval series (7) and the OUABH series (15).

What Jacks does with his apples (tossing, biting, picking up, dropping) is connected to his emotions.

As Jacks is a Fate, he carries around the apples to help control his urge to kiss people, in search of true love. Only once he finds true love with Evangeline does he not need them anymore. Now he's happy and has had enough of the apples <3

The apples have different colors that I believe represent different things: white (11 of 22, default color), black (4 of 22, desperation/doing whatever it takes), blue (3 of 22, success), gold (1 of 22, possibly failure or feeling broken), silver (1 of 22, possibly partial success or intrigue), pink (1 of 22, Evangeline), and purple (1 of 22, royalty/power/nobility or mystery).

The origin of the apples is still unknown, as is how the apples take on different colors.

If you have read this far, again, THANK YOU SO MUCH! Today I offer you two apples as a reward: 🍎🍏

Almost all of my conclusions are just theories, but I'm so happy if I could provide something to think about – and some much needed "answers". I know I was losing my mind when I read ACFTL and got almost none of the apple-related answers I had been hoping for, but on the other hand, researching this has been a ton of fun!

In part 1, I said I'd be happy if just one person besides myself would enjoy looking at my findings and theories. As of writing this, that post has 103 notes. Guys. I'm blown away by all the likes and reblogs and nice things some of you have said to me and just,,, THANK YOU. All of you. I'm overjoyed that I could share my little theories and that so many of you have liked them, it means the world to me.

You all have made the hours upon hours I put into these posts and dedicating my heart to this little detail a thousand times worth it. Thank you so much for reading, truly!! 🍎❤️

90 notes · View notes

dirkification · 4 months

Note

I'm going to be honest I'm unsure how much faith I have in them being honest about the June thing being planned from the get go :/ it feels more like damage control or worries that they're going to get harassed if they say it wasn't. I heard that Hussie said jt was always intended in a tweet? But idk how much faith I have in their honesty either, which makes the whole thing kindaaaaa ehhh.

I get where y'all are coming from and, like I said, I haven't read the rest of the AMA, or any other announcement about things (there was one JR posted a while ago that I meant to read and then just forgot) and I stopped reading hs2 when it was first starting, so I don't know The Whole Vibe, much less this team's whole vibe.

I also don't know what they mean by "the whole time," which may have been clarified in the AMA. Is that since the epilogues were being written? Yeah, I would need a lot of proof to believe that. Since Kate and co started bashing everyone over the head with it? Maybe. Aysha had said that Hussie liked the idea of June, and I don't remember if anyone at WP said it, but fans theorized this very thing -- that Hussie had been planning it and just used the Toblerones as a way to make it known.

Which was like. God such a terrible idea if JR and the others are telling the truth (which I personally don't have a reason to doubt, again, depending on the timeline). It just does mean that WP saw the clusterfuck that was going on with June, where people were being harassed and chased out of the fandom, knew they were going to make her canon One Day, and then both gave June fans nothing (no hints in PQ unless you count everyone painting their nails in Jade's route which is weak sauce), no hints in HS2 (except John shaved his moustache), and nothing official. Meanwhile anyone who was not on the "M!Egbert is dead, long live F!Egbert" train was pointing that out, that it wasn't canon, that Hussie has made similar things canon in just as flippant of ways and no one cared about those ("all ships are canon"), and would continue to do that multiple other times this time using the Toblerones, undercutting the importance of June, and went on to hire people who made June discussions hell on earth, laying a foundation of pain and resentment more than they already were.

June was used by the some of the biggest assholes of the community to tear it apart, and, if this had been really planned, WP staff either sat back and watched this go down and enabled it, or actively poured gas on the fire. What Hussie did, by confirming June in one single tweet because someone found a candybar, was pour more gas, and if at that point they really had intended to make June canon well before tweeting, they led that trail of gasoline to a whole new fire ready to explode.

To continue that metaphor, the current HS2 team have two choices in front of them: Gas or Rock. Do you go into June shit without taking into consideration raids on John servers were happening up until at least 2021? Do you just do what you want to do with no thought of fandom and your (generalized for WP and adjacent teams) actual hand in how it all went down? Or do you grab some rocks and dirt and try to control where the fire is going to burn. Because there's going to be a fire no matter what -- it's already here -- they just have the chance to try to meaningfully control it as best they can. Something they never seemed to do back in 2019/2020

#ask jax #Anonymous #anon #june discourse #jax yacks #june critical #what pumpkin critical #hussie critical #what a metaphor #gas or rock lmao #hstwt discouse #hstwt 2019

6 notes · View notes