#fandom problem 8524

[damnfandomproblems]

Fandom Problem #8524:

People who act like "it's mostly liked by women and girls" or "it's aimed to women and girls" is an instant get-out-of-jail-free card. Like yeah, there is a discussion to be had about how stuff associated with women and girls is seen as "lesser" than that associated with men and boys, but some people forget that some female-associated stuff is just... crap. Like, most of the people flaming Twilight weren't misogynistic dudebros who hate when women enjoy things. They had legitimate points to make.

[damnfandomproblems]

Looking through the comments of the asks defending the Twilight books...I thought most if the people following this blog weren't antis??? Because there are an awful lot of antis reblogging.

Also, why is it okay for the books to have the vampires ruled by mass murderers...but not for one of the vampires to be a former Confederate Soldier? Who also makes it clear he doesn't believe in the Confederate cause, anymore? I thought y'all LIKED redemption?

Posting as a response to a previous problem.

[damnfandomproblems]

8524 Twilight is kind of crap from a technical and cultural sensitivity standpoint, but people (mostly middle-aged women if I remember right) were being hugely misogynistic by saying readers (usually young girls) shouldn't be interested in Twilight because the relationship was toxic, without understanding that even for middle-aged women, being the subject of affection from a powerful, wealthy, etc being is an extremely common fantasy and one of the main drivers of romance fiction.

Posting as a response to a previous problem.

[damnfandomproblems]

8524- yeahhhh guarantee OP is too young to remember the height of Twilight hate. Through and through it was just over-the-top bullying, even most of the "genuine criticisms" were still just bullying just wrapped in superficial faux-concern, in a way that felt very "hey, you stupid fucking bitch, don't you know that thing you like is misogynistic?"

I got swept up in the Twilight hate craze myself and in hindsight it was needlessly harsh, and definitely more about how fun it was to trash a popular thing than it was concern over how someone could be affected by the material, even if that was used as a justification for it. Not much different from the anti movement today tbh.

Posting as a response to a previous problem.

[damnfandomproblems]

Addition to #8524 or rather the anons pointing out how, while there are definitely flaws in Twilight and legitimate criticism, a lot of it was used to just put girls down.

The really sad part is that it is not just Twilight (or paranormal romance) anymore. They, especially people with a big platform like Booktubers, Booktokers and big name fans, act the exact same way about YA dystopia, romantasy and dark romance now. You know, the genres mostly written by women for women, and, in the case of YA dystopia, even predominantly feminist critiques of real life issues girls face.

And it's mostly done by other woman who want to show how much better than those women they are.

YA dystopia has this nice little excuse of Hunger Games, thanks to being so incredibly applicable, not being seen as pathetic badly written shit, so you can use it to put down every other book in the genre. I saw people pick out that one aspect of mental health rep of a book that had mixed opinions by people actually experiencing this, completely ignoring the rest of the canon neurodivergence rep that is so empathically and radically done that even to this day its more progressive than most portraits. I saw someone uplifting herself whining about how heteronormative the hetero relationships in a book are, without bothering to notice how said book does not center around that but two girls friendship, and how it has intense queer subtext (also telling how for this kind of person a girl being attracted to a guy can only be cishet, we all know bi girls do not exist). I even saw them whine about something being a Hunger Games copy cat despite that series coming out before Hunger Games, and then whining how the series was not like Hunger Games and therefore atrocious. In short, aggressively bad faith reading for the sole purpose of bragging how much better than this girl shit they are.

Romantasy and Dark Romance often have these dominant, aggressive, even abusive male leads I personally am not as interested in, but they also have worldbuilding, character studies, studies of specific dynamics in a safe way you couldn't do in real life. I personally am not as much a fan of these, however if you actually listen or read from woman who do like them, they do give them something they need. Be it traditional gender roles they were trained to like, without having to give up your real life autonomy. Be it a contrast to real life. Be it the fascination of seeing some absolutely horrendous clusterfuck of a relationship unfold without actually being in danger. There is a reason these are so popular, and its not "woman are brainwashed idiots who are too stupid to imagine anything but patriarchy". Honestly strange to me how people can say something like this and then in the next breath go on to pretend that they are feminists.

It creeps me out how not just these women successfully use social justice language to put women (and often other marginalized groups too) down, quite a lot of them could even make a career out of this or at least a big platform.

I know this is a trend that developed organically, not something some evil mastermind implemented. But I can't help but feel that all of this conveniently leads to women having it so much harder to express, process and maybe even find community by telling and reading their stories in a science fiction and fantasy setting. We can't use the power these genres could have at all. Makes me sad.

Posting as a response to a previous problem.

[damnfandomproblems]

8524

As someone who was a teen when Twilight came out, yes most of the complaints were from misogynistic dudebros. One of the recurring complaints was about how Edward was a "sissy vampire" and some even claimed Edward should just kill Bella because "she's annoying lol." Unlike the movies, in the books Bella acted like an actual teenage girl. Boys who liked the books got bullied for it.

Most of the complaints about the "toxic relationship " thing came out AFTER THE ORIGINAL SERIES ENDED...and even that's a crappy argument, because there's this misogynistic idea that young women can't separate fantasy from reality, unlike the men reading their MANLY books and watching their MANLY films... that also have toxic relationships in them.

Most romance novels have a relationship that wouldn't fly in real life. "Rich, powerful man who falls desperately in love with you to the point of obsession" is a veryyyy popular fantasy women have. Look at all the romance novels about mob bosses, other criminals, pirates, other vampires, royalty, monsters, etc. Look at the popularity of YANDERES!

Twilight is actually tame compared to a lot of romance stories.

Does Twilight have legitimate problems? Yes. But so do most novels out there. Twilight just got extra backlash because it was a romance novel popular with teenage girls.

Posting as a response to a previous problem.

[damnfandomproblems]

https://www.tumblr.com/damnfandomproblems/781952704136249344/8524-yeahhhh-guarantee-op-is-too-young-to?source=share

"Not much different from the anti movement today"

This. THIS.

You'd think if all these Twilight fans came out perfectly fine after reading the books and never did do anything bad despite, as per how an anti would put it, how they "condoned fictional stalking (Edward and Bella), pedophilia (Jacob and Renesmee), age gaps (Edward and Bella), and abuse (Edward and Bella)" and "fetishized (toxic aspects of Bella and Edward's relationship), etc, that antis would unclench and realize it's not a big deal.

But antis don't have any historical awareness whatsoever. If they did, they wouldn't be regurgitating the same tired old wank as these think-of-the-children soccer moms did. They are the epitome of "history repeats itself, and only because they're too fucking stupid to look back."

Posting as a response to a previous ask.

[damnfandomproblems]

Re: All of the Twilight responses

I was also a teenager during that time. The consensus amongst the teenage girls who didn't like it was that we were tired of love triangles, flat main characters, boring love interests, and sloppy writing. Thats not to say other people cant enjoy it, of course, just that it wasn't what we were looking for. Even still I'm shocked at how much actual misogynistic hate it got.

Reminds me of Disney live action Ariel. You have the group that thinks the live actions just needs to stop, and the group that was super racist towards this movie and the actress.

For Twilight, you had the group that just wasn't interested, and the group that took the opportunity to hate teenage girls and be misogynistic

Posting as a response to a previous problem.

[damnfandomproblems]

8524

Most of the people "flaming" Twilight were part of a moral panic outcry where people swore young girls would be brainwashed into thinking stalking and child marriage is okay. Not good points, no.

Then again, at the same time, Twilight recieved some criticism for its shitty writing which, yes, is very clear and quantifiable and a reasonable point to make.

Posting as a response to a previous problem.

[damnfandomproblems]

8524

"But because Twilight isn’t popular anymore, now it’s cool and popular to stomp it into the ground like that one meme."

I think it was popular to stomp it into the ground at the peak of its popularity too, I saw it constantly. People loved to hate on it. The hate just wasn't the prevailing popular mindset.

Posting as a response to a previous problem.

[damnfandomproblems]

https://www.tumblr.com/damnfandomproblems/782018912139313152/httpswwwtumblrcomdamnfandomproblems781952704

Person who commented on this post: you're shadowbanned, you were blocked by the admin who runs this blog and because of that, and your comment is not appearing regardless of who is viewing it.

Posting as a response to a previous ask.

Mod note, I was not initially aware when I joined the mod team that users I have blocked on my personal blog would carry over to this blog. I am however still able to see asks sent by people I have blocked on my personal account.

[damnfandomproblems]

https://www.tumblr.com/damnfandomproblems/782018851785310208/8524-but-because-twilight-isnt-popular-anymore?source=share

Yeahhhh Twilight hate was INSANE at its peak. And extremely mainstream, it wasn't just an online thing. "Twilight Bad" was a punchline in movies. Heck there WAS a movie (who remembers Vampires Suck?)

It was way more popular to make fun of then than it is now, the majority consensus on Tumblr is like "yeaahhh it's dumb and it sure has its problems. But it's fun, nostalgic dumb! ^^"

Posting as a response to a previous ask.

[damnfandomproblems]

https://www.tumblr.com/damnfandomproblems/781952756486422528/looking-through-the-comments-of-the-asks-defending?source=share

I feel like a few posts have breached containment recently and flooded the blog with new anti followers. It's a shame but hopefully being here actually challenges at least some of them enough to encourage confronting their beliefs.

Posting as a response to a previous ask.

[rosewood-multifandom-writer]

Oh wow, I wasn’t the only one who made that Yandere point, lol. But yeah, this is what I mean by hypocrisy right here. Novels like the ones mentioned before and what Anon said are popular and even celebrated because it’s the new popular thing. But because Twilight isn’t popular anymore, now it’s cool and popular to stomp it into the ground like that one meme.

8524

As someone who was a teen when Twilight came out, yes most of the complaints were from misogynistic dudebros. One of the recurring complaints was about how Edward was a "sissy vampire" and some even claimed Edward should just kill Bella because "she's annoying lol." Unlike the movies, in the books Bella acted like an actual teenage girl. Boys who liked the books got bullied for it.

Most of the complaints about the "toxic relationship " thing came out AFTER THE ORIGINAL SERIES ENDED...and even that's a crappy argument, because there's this misogynistic idea that young women can't separate fantasy from reality, unlike the men reading their MANLY books and watching their MANLY films... that also have toxic relationships in them.

Most romance novels have a relationship that wouldn't fly in real life. "Rich, powerful man who falls desperately in love with you to the point of obsession" is a veryyyy popular fantasy women have. Look at all the romance novels about mob bosses, other criminals, pirates, other vampires, royalty, monsters, etc. Look at the popularity of YANDERES!

Twilight is actually tame compared to a lot of romance stories.

Does Twilight have legitimate problems? Yes. But so do most novels out there. Twilight just got extra backlash because it was a romance novel popular with teenage girls.

Posting as a response to a previous problem.