#fetishization runs rampant in the shipper community

[stormblessed95]

Hello storm, i asked this question in another jikook blog but as you are very detailed in your responses i wanted your perspective on it as well. Do you find it a bit strange that from the Taekook perspective Tae seems to only be gay for Jungkook? Let me explain.

Tae has a whole squad of male friends (handsome males), he hangs out with, seems to be close to Park Bogum and even went to an art exhibit with him and they have their own version of GCF, yet not only have I seen Tkkers shrug them off as friends but have 0 malice for Park (not that i want them to) but seem to loathe Jimin? How come? Doesnt Bogum threaten your ship just as much if not more than Jimin?

So in the Taekook world Tae and Kook are deep in love in a ltr and their only threat is Jimin? How does that work. If Jungkook is Tae's type and vice versa, Jimin doesnt fit that mold so why be threatened by his prescence? Park Bogum is tall, gorgeous, talented, if anything he posses a bigger threat since he fits the mold of guys Tae should be into. So why is he shrugged off but Jimin hated and seen as a p*rv and a threat?

I know i am asking a mouthful but when you spend a few minutes thinking about the mind of a Jimin anti, it really shows how irrational these people are.

The tkkrs who do think Tae is only gay for JK, or vice versa where JK is only gay Tae (this is also about the jkkrs who think JK is only gay for Jimin too btw) aren't doing anything but fetishizing a mlm queer relationship for their own fantasies and gratification for their own abysmal love life and/or their own sexual gratification. Both are a problem. It's not okay. And I absolutely blame the media for the crappy representation and fetishizating stereotypes they give queer characters. Because that's then also how these types of shippers view BTS. As characters for them to play out their fantasies with. It's not okay. These are the same people who will ship the members but then at the same time not actually support queer people or the community. It's the "ew gay people" crowd who also go "lol so who do you think the bottom is??" It's the same people who always view one as "the man" and the other as "the girlfriend." They are cosplaying support for queer people behind a ship that they don't TRULY believe in. Because if Tae or JK ever came out as gay, or confirmed they are boyfriends and are gay. Those same people who gloat about winning but also have a really fucking hard time continuing to support them "in their sins." Either you think they are queer and you support them regardless of if they are in the gay ship you want them in, or you don't. Full stop. There is no "I'm only gay for...." there are LOTS of sexualities out there where you are attracted to a variety of genders or non at all. It's all okay, but people don't get to decide that for you. Because that's a cop out of actually supporting and caring for the person(s) you claim to love and support in their queerness and otherwise.

As for the irrationality of being a Jimin anti? You absolutely answered that for yourself. Lol they aren't "threatened" by their other male friendships because they don't actually view think they are gay, therefore other men aren't a "threat." Jimin a "threat" simply because he is the most rival ship, they want to win and they throw all their homophobic and misogynistic ideas and tendencies onto him. It's fucked up.

Idk if any this ended up making sense or if my angry rant just ended up wordy and ranty. But oof this is a topic that gets my gears grinding 😅 thanks for the ask

[dueling-jesters]

What are your thoughts on women romanticising or fetishising gay men via shipping. And when you draw the line when this happened. (Sorry for bad english)

Anyone who's been following me since I started this blog knows that I'm personally annoyed with the fetishization of gay people that has run rampant in fandom spaces for decades. Shipping on its own is completely fine, but I think it becomes something of an issue when people use it to implement harmful stereotypes or to hurt someone directly.

One way I often see is when some people will take two male characters and change their appearance and personalities to project heteropatriarchal standards upon them, essentially turning them into a stand-in for an abusive straight couple. This is, of course, an extreme example.

One related form of it is,via headcanon, the association of body type, personalities, and sexual positions (i.e., making the shorter or curvier male character more feminine, weak, and submissive). This oftentimes overlaps with fandom racism (making a darker-skinned character aggressive and abusive) and transphobia (people who have a trend of making all of their transmasculine-headcanoned characters soft, submissive bottoms exclusively paired with cis-male-headcanoned characters).

One of the most obvious indicators of someone doing this is if they are obsessed over whoever is the top and who is the bottom in a way that's one step from asking "But who really is the guy and who's the girl in the relationship?". This becomes incredibly apparent when a multishipper exclusively headcanons submissive/feminine bottoms and dominant/masculine tops, devoid of any variety or versatility. It's a telltale sign that someone may not care what gay people are actually like in reality.

This doesn't necessarily mean that top and bottom headcanons are inherently fetishizing, but rather, when there is an amalgamation of it being a fandom member's main priority in shipping alongside reinforcing heteronormative stereotypes.

I personally think it's fine for someone to be primarily focused on shipping characters in fandom. It's extremely common for lgbt+ fans to project their experiences onto characters or to otherwise feel connected to them through shipping-even if they're of a different gender/ orientation. (Cisgender, heterosexual fans can be avid shippers as well without harming gay people!) A fan lusting over a character and shipping through projection is not inherently problematic, either. Perhaps my stance is biased as I am guilty of both. There could be a grey area or situations that may seem suspicious if taken out of context.

The perpetrators of fetishization are not exclusively women, nor should they be blamed for it as a whole. Just as some gay people are homophobic, and some trans people are transphobic, there are occasionally members of our community who treat gayness and/or transness as an "othering" quality- whether they separate themselves from the rest of us in doing so, or if it's a form of internalized bigotry.

There are, of course, plenty of cisgender, heterosexual men who display a similar, dehumanizing attitude towards lesbians and bisexual women - whether through media or in-person. In its entirety, this is not a fandom-exclusive phenomenon.

Fetishizing behavior has been weaponized in harassment and abuse towards gay people. Essentially, the preconceived bigotries and assumptions one may have fuel harmful stereotypes cast upon fictional characters, which in turn reinforce one's beliefs and can result in one holding the same assumptions about actual people. I won't go into much detail, but I have personally experienced and witnessed sexual harassment from self-proclaimed allies and fellow members of the lgbt community due to fanfiction-influenced mindsets.

In many aspects, I think the fetishization of gay men in fandom runs parallel to the patriarchal gaze prevalent in similar spaces - although it can absolutely converge at times. It can definitely make someone who would otherwise participate as a fan, or even as a shipper, feel alienated.

[stormblessed95]

Lol idk about this Indian army if they are living in India and that’s what they mean by 90% of them are tkkrs

But I’m an international army who has a background of being Indian but don’t live there, and I’m a jkkr. As are a few others I know who are similar/don’t believe in shipping/any relationships in bts at all.

rather than being from India, I think it’s more of an age thing and I’ve come across a lot of tkkrs who are from other countries too lol

Please don’t generalise and don’t embarrass us

Anon 2: Indonesian here. Like the Indian anon, TK is massive here, and their shippers are extremely toxic. Shipping in general in Southeast Asian countries can get kind of terrible, so if you see an Indonesian, Filo, Malay, Thai, any SEA Tkker, run. You do not want to get into any kind of argument with them, they’re ruthless and will say terrible things. And I completely mean to generalize because East Asian fetishization is rampant among SEA fans, especially gay relationships, so it gets kind of weird. SEA Jkkers can be just as bad, but we don’t have as big numbers.

Okay, so I never wanted to generalize anyone. It's why I say that while I personally think the jikook community is a good one, we aren't perfect and there are some nutcase and toxic jkkrs too. I know not all Indian ARMY or SEA ARMY are tkkrs or even if they are would be the insanely toxic ones.

I don't quite know how to have this conversation, soooo I'm not going to be adding my own input here really. I am white, I married into a SEA family but my husband and his family never actually lived there. I want to stay firmly in my lane here, give yall your own voices and not step on any toes or where I don't belong. I really don't know much about what the culture is like or how true any of this is, but I know everyone speaks from their own experiences. I do agree with the first anon that I think alot of the toxicity comes from an age thing as well as a maturity thing.

I stand by wanting to read a statistical analysis of shipping though. I think it would be a very interesting read. Thank you both for sharing.