#gohda and shannon died at the start

[pochapal]

gonna be honest i hadn't even really thought about a master key until now. that's...hm.

[whenthechickencry]

Umineko EP8. Replay Part 3

Bernkastel figuring out that "Lambdadelta's plan" is bullshit was slowed down by the fact she had no friends.

EVA uses her magic to clear the sea of kitties from the room with the key, giving Ange and Battler a chance. EVA leaves letters with a red string to guide Ange, and Ange remarks that they can be trusted because they were written by someone who was always at her side... Narration remarks how Ange would get hurt a lot by the cat box being opened towards all, but the goats couldn't care less... Everyone's fighting to the best of their strength, with no mistakes and - Goddamnit Gohda.

Erika finds out the truth and everyone tries to murder her immediately, Beatrice tells her to fuck off. Meanwhile, Bernkastel finds out the trick and forces attacks on Battler's group. Ange decides that even a 1% chance to live is a chance worth taking, I am so happy to see how she has changed her view. Lambdadelta makes herself lose to rock paper scissors, deciding to certainly not be a spectator and go with them for the happy ending.

They are using the power of 3d to have basic candy models explode during this ending, btw. And whales. It's really cute how much their love and friendship is remarked over and over. Even when blowing each other up no one can argue the fact they love each other.

We cut to the fight for the Golden Land again here, Then back to Ange and Battler. Ange feels about going back alone, and then Battler tells her that she must fight and we get this interaction....

It makes me very happy every time the game remarks how Ange has grown. Anyways, Bern eats Lambda and Lambda explodes inside of her.

Oh huh.... now that I think about it those ep2 scenes with Shannon and Kanon certainly were interesting in that they established Shannon and Kanon as real people people outside Rokkenjima can perceive.

All the talk about how people's recollections of you can give way to half-truths that don't match up to the fullness of that person is making me think about how the way people close to me have died and how the way people remember them has hurt me and others in my life, it's definitely, won't go into detail too much but this scene's giving me a lot to think about.

Erika calls Rosa a serial cheater which is.... never the vibe I got from her remotely? I don't think there's much to say about her relationship with Maria's dad, but everything afterward gave off the vibes of not being in a committed enough relationship for "cheating" to be a thing. Aaaah, I feel really bad for Erika in spite of everything now...

Erika and Beatrice get into a final duel, Beatrice saying they have already won because Ange is already choosing to live in the future. We cut back to Battler and Ange, Featherine arrives and Lambdadelta starts freaking out.

The moment where Lambda attacks still feels really cool even on reread. I actually like it way more on reread now that I saw how Lambdadelta was such an ally the entire time....

Featherine simply writes that Lambdadelta is already dead, though, and Lambda can't even understand what happened... Lambdadelta calls her a monster.

I... honestly forgot the punch for a second myself. Was shocked at the same time Featherine was. Bernkastel "remembering what pain is" and these lines really do kind of demystify Bernkastel and make it pretty obvious how she's a bitter person who hates Beatrice and co for human reaons, I think.

Bernkastel is also the main character in some game board, so this is her lashing out against herself as well. And the complete abandonment of Featherine is a little sad to think from her perspective.

Bernkastel pulls the red truth that no one will come back to her towards Ange again, Battler dies in front of Ange, but even if Ange still struggles at seeing this, it's not like she hasn't gone through this song and dance a couple times now... she won't let the red truth destroy her miracle.

The tacit inclusion here of Beatrice as part of her family makes me so happy I want to cry.

Ange's eagle fucking explodes the whale oh my god, Bernkastel then just keeps throwing red truths at Ange that definitely won't work anymore. Bernkastel is turned into a kitty. Featherine reveals Lambda is safe in the audience seat.

Ange goes on to make her choice in front of the 2 golden doors...

Ange assures everyone that this isn't goodbye... not because they will always be with her, but because she still believes in them coming back to her. After making her choice, and being given the doll by Kinzo, Ange is back at the top of the skyscraper and she makes the decision to step back. Ange has decided to live.

EVA and Battler close the door that leads into Ange's future, confident she can handle things on her own from now.

Erika has... mixed feelings about the events it seems. With how many insults she threw at Ange for wanting to kill herself I got the vibe she didn't want Ange to kill herself. Not like she'd be broken up about it either but I think her ideal ending was the trick ending, having someone who can understand what the truth did to her. She seems a a bit both impressed and displeased she can live with the truth while not turning into a bitter person. Battler cheers up by saying she isn't a witch at all, but the detective.

Hachijo takes away the Book of Single truth and chides them for disturbing the sleep of the dead with rumors, and takes the book herself. Life became a little easier for Ange as people are less willing to be goats.

We cut to Battler the scene of Battler and Beatrice in the same place where Kinzo and Beatrice met, Beatrice shows the motorboat to Battler and tells him to leave.

I am going to cry even though I remember this scene perfectly.... Sayo definitely does not consider her life worth living anymore. All the cousins except Battler are dead, and she blames herself for that. She already didn't consider her life worth living before everything happened but after seeing the state of Rokkenjima, man, I can't imagine her mental state, even if Battler probably eased her heart a little... Battler takes her off Rokenjima but it's just not that easy. She's playing strong for Battler's sake, too... putting up the Beatrice persona. But her heart is too wrecked by now and it's too late.

This scene is destroying me. I want her to reach the realization Ange did. I want her to be able to see the futures thtat I am sure she could have achieved.... but I know how this ends and every line destroys me more and more.

Beatrice tells Battler that she is an evil witch who can't keep living.

Battler and Beatrice and Battler fall down with the catbox, together, forever.

Ange thanks Okonogi for being the person to her that without love, the truth can't be seen. Okonogi was given in the Ushiromiya group so he's obviously pretty happy with the arrangement, and this also guarantees Ange's survival by making sure no one will be after her.... Ange reveals how she's going to in a journey and becoming an author so she can impart magic to other children.

Ange opens up her life as the last witch, ANGE BEATRICE.

[construingseacats]

Umireread: Legend of the Golden Witch - Chapter 7: Letter and Umbrella 

Sat, Oct 4 1986 - 6:00PM

The following contains spoilers for the entirety of Umineko. Please do not read if you are yet to finish it.

And so we find ourselves back in the Guesthouse. Hopefully Battler can be a little less uncomfortable to read about this time.

I can’t help but feel this is a little too self indulgent. “Wow being trapped on an island is great! No school on monday!” “I can’t wait to go to college and never have to be on this island again!”. Ryukishi’s being a funny guy for writing this into his murder mystery. You could only be more on the nose if Gohda was one day from retirement or something.

This one’s also a pretty funny line. I know it’s a little contradictory of me to say given the paragraph we just had in defence of Rosa, but still, it’s quite the picture we paint when we go from Rosa beating Maria and leaving her in the rain to “no-one understands me :(“

Oh that’s… disconcerting. That feels like a trauma reaction. Hm.

It really is fascinating how much Rosa is being shown to be a good parent (in spite of her just being a terrible one). The moment she’s cognizant of the situation once again, she’s immediately out looking for Maria to make sure she’s okay. I suppose this is kind of mandated by her being one of the first sacrifices, since we only have so much time with her to paint her complexities beyond her moment in Chapter 6.

It feels odd for me to entirely skim over the umbrella scene in the garden, but there’s not really anything I have to add. Yeah, Yasu showed up in cosplay and gave Maria the Umbrella, but there’s no particular insight I have to say here.

I’m living for all the Kinzo Study scenes. Nanjo’s just sitting at a Chessboard by himself while Krauss is pounding on the door.

Stripping the fantasy and framing this as Nanjo giving himself a pep talk before going to the family is VERY funny.

So this is the kind of thing that I was hoping to see a little more of earlier on - this is a lot more representative of what Umineko is about, but is remarkably absent in the first few chapters in favour of… mundane greetings. Having a small, harmless mystery to break up Chapter 2 would have done the start a lot of favours, I think.

Either way - I really like this as a proxy mystery to ease the reader in before we get to the big howdunnits later on. Obviously the stakes don’t matter yet since no-one’s died, but we’re able to see how alibis are collaborating, and can start to think about how to peel things back to find the truth of the matter.

Even if it was mandated by how dinner is usually served, it’s interesting to see Shannon’s persona used here instead of Kanon’s. Her natural (or artificial, I suppose) meekness gives her an advantage since it immediately disarms everyone who would point an accusatory finger at her.

You know, I hadn’t thought about it until now, but the emphasis on Natsuhi’s headaches in Episode 1? Absolutely intentional, spiteful writing by Yasu to make her suffer as much as possible. Natsuhi faces so much anguish in almost every scene, almost like the writer wants her as a character to have the worst time she possibly can. Heck, you can go as far as to say that Jessica giving Natsuhi the scorpion charm was an intentional writing decision of “and then I’m going to kill her and her husband in the first twilight - no, that’ll be too easy. I’ll keep her alive and then kill her towards the end, after she’s suffered even more.”

Another one for reading Maria as autistic. I feel so bad for her here.

Fun confirmation that literally all anyone needs to do is dress up as Beato and say they’re Beato for Maria to believe it. It’s fun how early Umineko says the truth, and it’s obviously the truth, but you’re kind of digging into “but what if the witch is real?” territory so you feel compelled to disbelieve it.

Gotta love the time-honoured tradition of Umineko just flat out telling you the answer.

It’s interesting that they pick Genji for this example, however - that kind of makes it sound ridiculous and discredits it from the get-go. If you opened with Shannon dressing up then it’d sound far more plausible.

Speaking of which, time for another Shkanon scene!

Interesting phrasing - “me either” feels like it’s following from Kanon’s dialogue, but it could still be read as Genji referring to the adults. Maybe I’m onto something with this “Shkanon scenes can be read as if one of them isn’t there” idea.

Here again - you think nothing of it, but Gohda doesn’t even see Kanon here. He addresses the women and Genji. Then Genji patting Kanon on the shoulder can quite easily just be him patting Shannon and saying the same thing.

Ah, well that immediately torpedoes what I was just saying. Genji’s just talking to himself now. Long live fantasy.

That being said, this scene is just dripping in Yasu’s penmanship. Very clear that she’s writing both of them as they talk about Beatrice and being Furniture.

The letter looks so good. The one winged eagle is just a cool design in general.

Yeah, tell that to Rosa.

Interesting detail that Maria parroting English means we know that was a mannerism of the Beato cosplayer’s dialogue. Unfortunately I don’t think this serves as an actual hint since I’m pretty sure the only person we’ve established as being big into western stuff so far is Kinzo. I suppose it helps set the tone of them being an “outsider” though.

It’s extremely funny how everyone reading this scene for the first time jumps on the fact that we just saw Kinzo throw the ring out the window. It’s such a heavy loaded bait and switch since, you know, he’s been dead for a while.

I love how the adults are all up in arms at trying to disprove it’s official Kinzo correspondence, and the moment we get “it’s from Beatrice!” they’re all “oh okay then open it who cares lmao”

I can’t help but notice there’s been a lack of ambient music for quite a lot of these last 2 chapters. I kind of wish they had something here? The rain sfx only does so much for the scene.

IMMEDIATELY COUNTERED BY FISHY AROMA, I TAKE THAT COMMENT BACK, PEAK CHOICE

I always preferred the name “Suspicion’s Fragrance” for this song. I think I remember hearing that Umineko Project calls it Suspicion’s Scent? Anyway, I digress. This is the Umineko song.

Is Maria just doing an impression of Beato here? Very funny if she’s doing an impression of someone who was already doing a fake voice.

Nanjo sweating as he goes “Yes! Kinzo is definitely alive! The ring is gone but he is definitely alive. Do not question it.”

Nanjo is honestly so nervous about the Kinzo situation. Really panicking here when they suggest they’ll all go knock on his door.

Honestly, the first time I read this scene, I was so focused on “BEATRICE IS REALLLLL” that I completely missed the scrambling from the adults. They are so funny in this situation. Literally everyone has lost their cool after being so calculated during the inheritance discussion earlier.

I’m actually a little curious about what’s going on in this scene. So Kinzo refused to come down to dinner, but the servants still took some food up to him, and none of the adults thought to use this opportunity to try and get a word out of him? I know we’ve already established a mood of “lmao I ain’t gonna be the one to do that” from Rudolf, but I do feel it’s kind of off that they just let Kinzo get his food delivered to him and didn’t think to try and reach out to him in the process. I feel like it’d make more sense if he had food kept in his study and/or servants prepared something for him there, but they explicitly say it’s Gohda’s cooking from downstairs.

Ah, Genji and Shannon are just chilling and eating their dinner in here. Good vibe, honestly. They picked a damn nice room to relax in.

Hey. Hey Kanon. How would you know that. I’m pretty sure all the servants were out of the Dining Room by the time the letter was revealed. You want to confess something buddy?

Good chapter. The story is really starting to pick up here. Who knew a mystery novel would be interesting once you start getting to the mystery?

[theothin]

Thinking through the puzzle:

One statement I keep wanting to challenge is Nanjo's claim that no one would mistakenly confirm a death. If he was a culprit, that would open up the possibility of him and others being reported dead by mistake - but I don't think it holds up, since the purple statements are supposed to be as absolute as red truth for everyone who isn't a culprit. In that case, any misreported deaths must have been lies.

Another interesting statement around the same time is Shannon's claim that each of the parents who died in the first twilight were confirmed dead by their own kids. Which would mean that, in addition to accusing Nanjo and calling it a mistake, a parent's death report could be challenged by either accusing Shannon to say she lied about that confirmation, or potentially by accusing the specific kid.

Bernkastel claims in red that the culprit of the first twilight indeed killed six people. But she claims this not after the first twilight, but after the second. Which could suggest that two of the eight from the first two twilights survived, but that seems pretty messy. There's also the question of interpreting the stipulation that any culprit must be among the characters who appear in the story, since the first twilight's victims didn't appear on-screen during these scenes.

Setting those six aside for the moment, what would it take for someone to be a culprit?

Krauss and Natsuhi: Identified dead by Nanjo. If either survived, Nanjo must be another culprit.

Shannon: Identified dead by George and Nanjo.

Gohda and Kumasawa: Identified dead by Nanjo and Jessica.

Nanjo: Identified dead by Jessica and George.

Jessica: Identified dead by George and Maria.

Then there's the matter of the three survivors. Battler and Maria both claimed that the three of them all had alibis for Jessica's death, so to break that rule, Battler and Maria would both have to be in on it. However, George claimed that Maria couldn't kill anyone, and the stipulations say that only killers will lie, so for Maria to be lying, George would also have to be in on it.

As funny as it would be to assume the three of them killed everyone else and then claimed alibis to each other for no reason, it falls apart when we take a step back and see that Jessica claimed all four kids have alibis for Nanjo's death. So either Jessica or someone else would have to be in on it as well.

How many culprits can there be, anyway? The last culprit stipulation is phrased as if it expects a single one, but the others suggest the possibility of multiple, and this doesn't look solvable with just one culprit. Two feels like a more plausible number, but the events don't have to be plausible.

A culprit must kill at least one person, and they must survive. With 16 distinct people at the start, and red text saying the first twilight's culprit killed 6 people, there's room for up to 5 culprits. One kills 6 people, one kills two, and the other three kill one each, for a total of 11 deaths and 5 survivors. More culprits means more room to throw away troublesome claims, so looking at it this way, I'm inclined to assume as many culprits as possible.

To find more survivors, the first person to look to is Nanjo. If he's telling the truth, that confirms Krauss, Natsuhi, Shannon, Gohda, and Kumasawa's deaths, leaving only the four kids and the first-twilight victims as potential culprits. The four kids could have killed Nanjo, faked Jessica's death, and made up fake alibis, but I don't think they could have created the closed rooms without help from any of the characters Nanjo reported as dead.

Conclusion: Nanjo is a culprit.

Now, if we take the observations as reliable even without Nanjo's "no one would mistake a body" claim, this immediately means the people who verified Nanjo's death were lying. That's George and Jessica - which means Jessica's death was also faked, despite identification from George and Maria.

Conclusion: Jessica, George, and Maria are culprits.

That leave one remaining spot. One servant's master key wouldn't have been helpful for the Krauss and Natsuhi closed room since they got alibis from the other servants, but that leaves the possibility that one of them killed the other, then played dead with help from Nanjo. And Krauss is the one who claimed no one was hiding in the first twilight's closed room.

Conclusion: The culprits are Nanjo, Jessica, George, Maria, and Krauss.

Let's run it through. In this scenario, there's a lot of flexibility about which murders were committed by which culprits, as long Krauss kills Natsuhi and each culprit kills at least one victim. So I'll pick them somewhat arbitrarily.

Jessica kills Eva, Hideyoshi, Rudolf, Kyria, Rosa, and Genji, then locks the dining hall and hides inside. Krauss lies about no one hiding in...

Or did he even need to lie for that? George was the one who made the main claim about no one hiding at the time the room was discovered, and with him accounted for, I'm not seeing a reason to pick out one of Krauss or Natsuhi as having a need to be the culprit over the other.

While looking for details on that, I found a bigger problem:

The narration says Nanjo was killed, and red text says the narration is reliable. Which completely derails my reasoning and implies I was wrong about Nanjo needing to be a culprit. Meanwhile, later narration also claims Jessica was dead.

Let's try another perspective.

If Nanjo and Jessica are definitely not culprits, the only possibilities are the three survivors and potentially some of their parents. But the fact that the characters from the first twilight are so interchangeable makes it really hard to pick out some of them as more suspicious than others.

If we go back to "George, Battler, and Maria killed everyone", George being a culprit makes the hiding explanation work for the first twilight, but not the second. No one claimed to have checked for people hiding in Natsuhi's room, but if someone was hiding, they would have been sealed inside. One of the parents from the first twilight could have allowed themselves to be sealed inside, but any of them would work equally well - and this would run into the problem of the red text saying the first twilight's culprit killed six people.

The only way around that I could see with the first two twilights is that two parents from the first twilight played dead, one killing the four others there followed by Krauss and Natsuhi for a total of six - but then the other one would have been sealed inside the mansion.

I guess the other possibility is that someone hid inside Krauss and Natsuhi's room and then rejoined the group during that investigation? That sounds dicey, but it's the best I can come up with.

Under that scenario, the culprits would be back to being George, Battler, and Maria, but it doesn't feel like an especially solid solution.

[guesscapades-umineko-blog]

So, as promised, let’s talk about the last murder of Episode 3, and lawyer the crap out of it!

So, the victim here was Nanjo. Who could it have been? We have the following Red Truth available.

Kinzo, Krauss, Natsuhi, Hideyoshi, George, Rudolf, Kyrie, Rosa Maria, Genji, Shannon, Kanon, Gohda, Kumasawa, and Nanjo are dead (each listed individually)

Battler, Eva, and Jessica are alive

Eva was with Battler at the time, and as such never did anything suspicious, nor was Battler a murderer.

Only Nanjo and Jessica were in the servant’s room.

Jessica did not murder anyone.

Nanjo was killed by homicide by a human, and each saw each other clearly before them just before the murder.

There are only 17 humans on the Island (established in later episodes).

Kinzo is always dead at the start of the game.

As you may guess, I compressed down some of the red truth, as it belabored the truth by quite a bit.

So, this is to me the most interesting part so far, as it seems to have a logical inconsistency. Specifically, if you can count. (The future is ours, if you can count!) There are 15 people listed to start with, and another three that are alive. Eva, Jessica, and Battler are all alive, but blameless (well, in this particular sense. They may have cheated on their taxes for all I know). We also know that, as a homicide, someone other than Nanjo must have killed him. This means that one of the other 13 people on the island must have killed him, but we know they’re all dead right?

Let’s get lawyering!

Well, there are two ways about it with the above facts as read could be true, and yet are being misinterpreted to say more than they are. The question to ask: when were those 15 people dead? This is obviously at a point after Nanjo’s murder, so clearly this wasn’t at the moment of the murder itself. It is possible that one of the 15 people listed was alive just before the murder occured, and died somehow shortly thereafter. Everything would still be consistent, and yet we have a human murderer.

While possible, this is kind of unsatisfying to me. It feels like the verbal equivalent of trying to limbo through a chain-link fence. Yes, it would be technically true, but it kind of seems the only reason for this to be true would be to make the Red Truth true. It kind of feels like cheating.

So, let’s take this from another angle. The new question I pose: What does it mean to be a “human on the island”? Aside from being physically present, we aren’t given any explicit explanation on what that means. However we can deduct the meaning from the other rules.

There are clearly 17 people on the island that Battler has met personally. He never met Grandpappy (who, I think if he were real would probably kill me for calling him Grandpappy), so that means that the “17 humans” truth makes sense. However, it seems likely (given the events in the earlier stories) that at very least another corpse existed on the island, likely Kinzo’s (due to the polydactyl toes). Thus, we can deduce that the 17 people does not include corpses, and thus must be alive.

This now yields a few possibilities, of which I don’t know if I have enough evidence to fully find the truth yet, but what we do know is that for the math to work out, at least one of the 15 listed dead people who are not Kinzo must not count as one of the 17 living people.

Elementary.

So, there are (at least) two ways this could be. First is the impostor theory: One of those people, like Kinzo, was dead from the beginning. Someone whose name isn’t one of those fifteen took that person’s place. In that case, all of the facts listed are still true, and yet it could work. Thus we have our person X that Battler so greatly wants.

For the record: yes there is Red Truth that states “In short, this 18th person X does not exist!!” However it is technically referring to the 18th person X. This would be, in effect, a 17th person X. DOUBLE LAWYERED!

The other possibility is the latecomer theory: The 17 people were all alive at the beginning, however after the first murders (at which point the number of humans decreases) another person arrived on the island. This increased the number of people, but it still stayed below the necessary 17 people total. Thus again, all of the Red Truth is technically correct.

And of course I have to put this here:

So, we now have another two possibilities. I don’t know if we have enough information to decide between them, or if there may be a third I’m not expecting. I do think this is a good start.

INTO THE FUTURE!

[ramblingsofthegoldenwitch]

Considering how the accomplices usually refer to Shannon and Kanon together and how they can 'see' Shannon and Kanon together, would you say that this is just an embellishment for the reader considering how Sayo almost always comes in her Beatrice disguise and how it would be weird if the adults wouldn't keep an eye on them?

Hum...

...so many scenes are embellished, we don’t really know how they went.

Pick Ep 4. The first twilight has Kinzo showing up and talking with the siblings until he summons the Chiesters, kills some of them and then magically sent the others in a jail in the underground tunnel.

The truth of that scene is that, after Nanjo, Kyrie, Krauss, Kumasawa and Gohda left, Sayo and Genji joined the siblings and started gunning them down.

In short almost nothing of what we saw happened.

It’s not that Sayo joined them claiming to be Kinzo’s heir, it’s not that she joined them claiming to be Beatrice. She just snuck inside the room with Genji and started killing them.

So it’s entirely possible that most of the scenes in which the adults (with adults I think you refers to the siblings only as we know that, apart from Gohda, the servants all knew that Shannon and Kanon couldn’t be seen together) ‘meet’ Beatrice, actually happened in manners very different from the ones implied by the fantasy scenes, if they happened at all.

So it’s hard to say what the adults really saw and who they really suspected.

It doesn’t help that, even if the narrative is describing Shannon and Kanon as both present, the cast might not be aware they were supposed to be present.

We see in Ep 5 that the narrative gives Shannon and Kanon as both present... but Erika, who’s in the parlour, was aware of only Shannon being present and, since she wasn’t listening to the narrative, she had no idea Kanon too was supposed to be present.

So... things change from situation to situation and, in many cases we can’t know what exactly the people were seeing and what exactly they would claim to have seen as we can’t know if their dialogues are the real thing or an embellishment or a lie agreed upon or... something else entirely.

Just keep in mind that the adults here and there suspected the servants... but ultimately this went nowhere. The best they thought was that the servants were accomplices. The adults live in a classist world and the servants had served them through all their lives. It must be hard for them to think that, among the servants, there could be a mastermind.

They seem to be more prone at thinking that the servants are merely ‘serving the culprit’.

Said all this... sorry, I fear there’s no clear answer to your question as we can’t really know.

In some scenes it can be an embellishment. In some others it can be a lie.

Note thought that the adults don’t really see Shannon and Kanon together often. It mostly happened through Ep 5, and we know this is an embellishment of the narrative.

In ep 1 Shannon is ‘killed’ early on, and we know Hideyoshi lied about it, though we don’t know why beyond that he was an accomplice (as in we aren’t given which excuse was given to him to lie about this). We’ll see that later on Eva will imply that the servants are suspicious... but since she’s an accomplice it can be she’s talking according to a script (In ‘Our Confession’ we learn Sayo considered having her accomplice claim they suspected the servants as per the script she would write for them).

In Ep 2 Rosa lied about Shannon and Kanon being with her when she opened the door to the chapel. Probably it was part of the script but later on Rosa suspected the servants... only we don’t know if this is part of the script or not.

In Ep 3 no one saw Shannon and Kanon together as they both died early on.

IN Ep 4 all we saw was a fantasy as, as said before, things went in a manner completely different.

So... the adults were suspicious of the servants occasionally but since we don’t even know the whole story behind it, it’s hard to guess what really went on.