#guys the reason they only showed dustins reaction to eddies death is because it was the more important to dustin

[keefechambers]

Every time a new season of any show comes out and a big important death happens I'm reminded of the 8487463 people who think that all movies and shows should completely grind the narrative to a halt so that we can see every single person's reaction to that death, lest they assume it means that nowhere in the time and space of the plot did any character react to it

The writers trust you to fill in those gaps yourself! So do it???

[hopper-wheeler]

just saw something along the lines of "lol mike is a terrible person, he didn't give a shit about eddie's death" and i need to vent.

seriously, what's your problem with him?!

i agree that the two day time jump ended up making it seem like dustin was the only one who knew or cared about eddie because they literally skipped everyone's reactions to his death but out of everyone MIKE is the one you're gonna shit on for this?

mike, who's been in california and then nevada for the whole season. mike, who didn't even know eddie was involved in all of this. mike, who knew so little about anything all around because he was being chased by the government and couldn't risk contact finn described him as disconnected from reality. this mike?!

as far as we know mike doesn't even know eddie died. there was no real time to talk after he got to hawkins before the season ended. it literally cuts off right after everyone first reunites. mike didn't even know about max's condition.

but of course you guys will find a way to turn this into the millionth reason why he's the worst character/person to ever exist.

did you ever think that maybe the reason why you find so many faults in him is because you're trying real hard to find them? that maybe the reason he "sucks" so much is because you create incredibly high expectations for him that literally no one could meet? that maybe the reason why he's always in the wrong and always the asshole is because even when he isn't you make him out to be? because everytime he explains himself or apologizes you either ignore it or find a way to turn that against him?

if anything s4 showed it doesn't really matter how he behaves. i mean, the things he's being shit on and blamed for? insane.

el lies to mike and somehow that's a reason to hate him. how could he not know what to do when his girlfriend turned out to be in an entirely different place emotionally than he thought she was? how come he didn't magically know she was lying? how come he (gasps) trusted her and believed she'd tell him the truth? how come he didn't come to cali prepared for vicious bullying and a roller-skate attack and el thinking he didn't love her anymore before being arrested? he's a terrible boyfriend even though he apologizes for being shocked, for not reacting the way she wanted him to and then apologizes again for not saying i love you more.

will doesn't reach out to mike, same as mike doesn't reach out to will. they fall out of touch. somehow, that's entirely on mike. he's the bad guy. but why? mike himself asks this. will could have called too. will even agrees with this (and later, in his speech to mike, indirectly reveals he was pushing mike away because he was afraid to lose him). somehow, this is still a reason to hate mike. he's a terrible friend even though he apologizes!! he still recognizes that he treated will badly after getting to cali and that that was wrong. he apologizes with tears in his eyes and says that hawkins isn't the same without will, that things are easier when they're best friends. he even fights will when he says it was okay and that he'd deserved it for how short he was being with el. he argues will didn't deserve anything. and that's even though i think we can all agree will bringing all of that up when el had just been put through hell and mike was desperately looking for her was terrible timing. they're on great terms for the rest of the season. mike never treats him badly again.

it's will that makes the active choice to support mike and el's relationship despite his own feelings because he cares for them both as people. will chooses to make that speech to mike but make it seem like it's entirely about el. will lies about the painting and says el commissioned it. will turns away and hides his crying because he doesn't want mike to see it. and somehow these are all reasons to hate on mike. how come he didn't magically see through will's speech and notice he was talking about himself too and not just el? how come he didn't confront will about el having commissioned it when el could easily have been talking about another painting in her letter? how come he (GASPS) is trusting will and believing he's telling the truth?!? how come he looked AT THE BACK OF WILL'S HEAD and couldn't tell he was crying?????!

like, come on!!

and then, worst of all, he gets hated for telling the girl he's loved for years now, his long-term girlfriend, that he loves her. el is dying in front of them. she's suffocating. mike's monologue gives her the strength to fight and save herself. and let me just say, that's will's sister!! he's just as terrified in that scene as mike is. when mike starts talking and tries to get through to el, will encourages him to keep going!! and that's because he loves el and believes in mike, and he'd probably be really upset at some of your takes. that moment wasn't about him at all and will was mature enough to understand this. why aren't you?

just keep mike wheeler's name out of your mouth. stop nit-picking. go gush over the characters you do like instead. please.

[nakianshuri]

I keep seeing well-meaning posts about wanting Steve and Jonathan to be friends, and I might have felt that way at the end of season 1. But since then it’s been a no for me.

I think Argyle is a great friend for Jonathan to have. However, Jonathan has only ever been interesting to me in his family relationships, which the show has neglected since that first season. Would have been interested to see his reaction to Bob’s death and confront his biases about people since he seemed to have dismissed Bob as being too normal or whatever in S2. He probably also resented him for dating Joyce and perhaps inserting himself in their family dynamics.

Would in theory be interesting to see his reaction to Jopper, which I assume would also be met with hostility for similar reasons, or how he interacted with El being around.

So there are interactions that I think could be enlightening to see that center Jonathan.

Jonathan and Steve, however, feels like it could be repetitive? Every season, Steve has to redeem himself to someone or show that he’s not at heart an asshole. It would have been great if in a very different season 2, Steve’s redemption arc started with Jonathan and if the show established some kind of basis for mutual respect and perhaps friendship between them that would have been an nice wrinkle to the love triangle at that point.

That’s not what happened, and instead we see Steve grow through Dustin and being the “babysitter,” and with Robin and learning to deal with rejection while becoming a good friend to her. We even seen this a little with Eddie, who explicitly says Steve’s a better guy than he thought, and with Steve learning to get along with Eddie after thinking he’s a freak. We’ve seen this arc 3 times in really compelling ways imo.

Some people say Stancy is character regression, which I disagree with because both characters were in a way reintroduced to each other after being apart and changing.

However exploring Steve and Jonathan after 4 seasons of no interaction feels like regression to me bc I don’t think Jonathan has changed, nor has his point of view of the world. It potentially leaves Steve in an atoning position we’ve already seen him in, and although he loves Nancy, he hasn’t exhibited any hostility toward Jonathan for season 2. So potentially any animosity that arises might be from Jonathan’s side, and I’m just not interested in that at this point. I’m not interested in him realizing Steve’s changed either because we’ve done that already three times already with other characters, too. So it’s St*nathan not Stancy to me that feels regressive.

I hope I’m wrong and there’ll actually be some great interactions between the two (bc the actors might have some great on screen chemistry) or that they mostly stay in their corners as usual and engage with other storylines.

[steveharrington]

But we’re not told WHY they’re vecna’d. There’s no reason why vecna targets traumatized teens EXCEPT to make it even more horror-movie-ish. Why do they get trash compacted like that specifically? It’s implied that’s how vecna a powers work but why? No idea.

The show has left so many unanswered questions already and this new element (vecna itself!) just over complicates everything

And I’m actually kind of pissed bc Patrick gets vecna’d and we know almost nothing about him. But stranger things… hates poc

I actually kind of hate Chrissy because of how differently she (pretty white girl) was treated from Patrick (black boy). And. her eating disorder existed SOLELY for exploitative purposes just to cause an emotional reaction it’s not something that adds to her as a character it’s just there to freak the audience out, meanwhile other REAL LIFE ACTORS are being forced to starve themselves for the roles. We get it eating disorders are scary good thing they’re not real! /s

Acting like this new girl will be important focusing on her ed only to kill her off in the most horrific way possible… i don’t like it it feels exploitative especially of a real world problem this show is absolutely complicit in spreading

We got a LOT less development for Fred than chrissy and didn’t fucking. Languish in such a triggering topic I think he was the happy medium.

Regardless the focus on traumatized teens with no other similarities was already so random they could have just picked literally anyone with no special backstory and it would have worked just as well? At the end of the day Chrissy ONLY matters as motivation for Jason, who only matters as motivation for Eddie ( and since Eddie’s death did nothing like. It didn’t seem like he was saving Dustin’s life or anything) who only matters to make Dustin kind of sad? She died for man pain except the ultimate man pain was for some guy she never even met

Chrissy isn’t a person or a character she’s a bafflingly written INTENTIONALLY TRIGGERING and misogynistic plot device with an outrageous amount of minute details they could have given to any of the real characters. They didn’t have to spend 10 minutes pretending she mattered only to beat her to death with a rock and then run over her a few times for good measure

well first of all i am no authority on the topic of whether or not chrissy's struggles with her ed were done correctly and therefore i will not speak on it because its really....not my place as someone who hasn't experienced that!

as for why vecna targets people with trauma specifically, i think it serves a greater narrative purpose and that's depicted best through max's arc this season. vecna's whole backstory as henry shows that he was obviously traumatized himself by brenner and when he appeals to chrissy, fred, and max he attempts to persuade them to just give up/join him/etc because it's easier than carrying on. he's using their trauma against them. and then when max is faced with this threat of losing her life to vecna, it motivates her to want to get better and want to stop isolating herself from lucas and the group, she literally says "i don't want to go, im not ready" and it kinda overall like. saves her life! vecna acts as a narrative tool to explore mental health and trauma and guilt. imo it's much much MUCH more impactful for our characters to overcome him through their bonds and their desire to live despite what they've been through than like.....killing a monster of the week

obv you dont have to agree with me and that's fine but i don't think chrissy is like...a misogynistic charicature in the slightest. like i said before i really don't think chrissy's treatment in the show was uniquely different than fred's or even max's. i don't really understand how chrissy's trauma was "languished in" any more than fred's? i feel like they got equal screentime and fred's vecna vision was just as brutal as chrissy's, even if they talked about two entirely different topics. and if im being completely honest (again not trying to be rude or demean your view of the show, but you did send this ask to me personally so im going to give my honest opinions back) i think referring to chrissy as a "plot device" and not a "real character" is intentionally reading the show in bad faith.

this season is a horror season. people die like they do in any slasher movie. i understand if the vecna plotline isn't for everyone because like yeah watching characters who are already suffering die very tragic deaths is hard! but i think the point of vecna like i said before is to personify trauma, guilt, and shame to allow our characters to overcome those feelings. chrissy's death worked both to establish what vecna does and to involve eddie. but i dont think that automatically makes her a "prop" or a "plot device" because she's given a personality, she's given a lot of thought and care from the actress, she's given people who mourn her. i think it was genuinely one of the sweetest moments in the whole show when eddie dedicated his little guitar solo to her because it showed that her death affected him and in motivating him to want to kill vecna and save his friends from her same fate, it had meaning

[shesoveranalyzingagain]

i'm actually heartbroken and disappointed.

first off, using the gay character's feelings as a way to build up the hetero relationship? what the fuck. i feel as if i've lost all hope for byler because i am really disappointed. they didn't even have to be canon this season. a coming out scene or confirmation on will's sexuality would've been nice. and also, mike?? will's voice was clearly breaking and there were formed tears in his eyes and you didn't notice it?

he's either blind considering will was sitting right next to him and then he immediately turned away from you after saying all that and you didn't sense anything wrong? (funny bc mike s1 + s2 would have) or he's a dick who did notice it but didn't do anything about it. it was also those words that helped mike say his whole 'i love you' monologue to el, a direct response to will's feelings.

it feels weird because the ending makes it show that nothing has been resolved. steve still has feelings for nancy and can't move on, will can't be open about who he is, and jonathon and nancy are still lying to each other. that's part of the reason i have small hope for s5. and speaking of nancy i am quite glad she didn't get with steve. (jancy still has my heart)

and finally a jopper kiss, i have been waiting for that. i thought way more people were going to die but the only person's death i really cared for was eddie's.. that death shattered my soul tbh. and when i tell you i screamed when max's bones started breaking. i loved how they built up the sinclair's sibling bond way more this season and i also loved that scene with eddie and dustin in the field. "never change henderson."

as for more things i didn't quite like besides the obvious queerbait,

they didn't show anybody else's reactions to eddie's death which really upset me. mike was also his friend so i wanted to see his too. and no one even comforted dustin :(

we don't actually know if dr. owens died or not. (assuming it's important in s5)

wasn't there supposed to be a letter or smth?? ending in "love, __". (assuming it's mike) we never got a letter like that and no matter who it was addressed to, i'm upset it wasn't in there.

i really thought will was gonna get possessed. purely based on the fact of noah's photo with him in a harness. and although it wasn't the same harness sadie was wearing, what purpose was it used for?

what happened to the military guys? aren't they still looking for el?

they never used music again. and i know that no one else really got possessed the fact that the music thing was never brought up again really puts me off.

we never saw max's letters at all.

vickie just feels like a copy of robin. :/

they never explained what's gonna happen with the byers. like are they staying in cali or moving back to hawkins?

honestly, there were just a lot of unanswered questions. lumax and a hopper and el reunion are what kept me going. but i still enjoyed it somewhat. hoping s5 makes up for it.

that's mostly all, i'd love to hear what you guys think !! :)

[nakianshuri]

This video was such a good character deep dive on Steve, and it made me think of how this unintended development of what was supposed to be a stock character complicated the original love story between Nancy and Jonathan. 

As the video says, in season 1, Jonathan is framed as the man Nancy should be with as soon as she wises up and drops Steve, the man who is totally wrong for her. Jonathan is the underdog and Steve’s opposite. Jonathan is authentic and unconventional where Steve is superficial. Jonathan “gets the girl” at the end of season 2 because he is willing to go on an adventure with Nancy and seek out the truth about Barb with her. And Nancy and Jonathan lived happily ever after.

Except the show didn’t end there, and it allowed Steve to crawl slowly forward out of the conventional, upper class, obliviousness he was born into. Outwardly, Steve still fits into society. Nothing marks him visibly as “other.” In fact, we originally meet up at the top of the food chain, so to speak. But he’s gone from being “King” of his high school to scooping ice cream and working at a video store (and he only got that job with Robin’s help). None of his two closest friends have any social capital. If Robin’s outed, she rightly believes she’ll be a pariah, and Dustin is perceived as a “loser” who has most likely been bullied most of his life. And now Steve’s spent season 4 trying to help a “freak” who was accused Satanism and being a murderer.

While I wish we’d seen Steve’s reaction to Eddie’s death, I appreciate that Dustin’s grief was put front and center because he was closest to Eddie in the first place, and I also suspect/hope that we might see Eddie’s death have not only a direct effect on Dustin but on Steve as well since the show compared their relationship to Dustin so much. Eddie said he was shocked that Steve with all his privilege would be a good guy. How would a character like Steve make sense of what happened to Eddie: a hero and overall nice guy who is demonized as a freak, a devil worshipper and murderer.

Steve’s arc is more about his move from superficiality to a more mature understanding of the world and skepticism of what’s popular or conventional than being part of the love triangle. But I actually do think it’s interesting to revisit what started his change in character to begin with and where that leaves everyone involved. When Jonathan makes that slight dig at Steve at the end of season 4 with Nancy, he’s the one who comes off a little superficial, judging Steve based on how he once perceived him vs who Steve really is now. And it makes me wonder if reasons Nancy seemed to choose Jonathan over Steve still exist.