#have witnessed a lot of like really weird bad pregnancy/abortion plotlines for career women before. iiiii dont know

[brookheimer]

It makes sense for them to include the pregnancy plot line but it doesn’t make it good or revolutionary and I think that’s such a shallow take on the situation. Her entire storyline has been the whole “if only she was a man” thing, where her main plot lines have been hating other woman, fighting with her husband, and now being pregnant. If the only thing we end up knowing about Shiv’s desires and life revolve around her child, that’s not revolutionary at all. Kendall has kids, but he is also a fully fleshed out character that can exist outside of that. Acting like “strong girlboss lead who has never accomplished anything in the show and is reminded of how her womanhood limits everything she does has to reconcile the way her body and ability to become pregnant can also be weaponized against her” is actually a fucked up storyline. It doesn’t make it bad, the entire show is a fucked up storyline, but it’s not some beautiful win for feminism

wooooah okay i was not at all saying her entire desires and life would revolve around her kid but rather that being pregnant forces her to self-reflect on the fact that she is not, in fact, a man, which would likely have important implications for her relationships with both the men and the women in her life, help us understand her interiority better (which right now we don't because she's always been very very dedicated to convincing herself she's something she isn't -- it would help HER understand her interiority better too), and overall just be kind of the catalyst for introspection in a way shiv hasn't been, like, provoked to do before. also i'm not saying it's inherently good or revolutionary just because they included a pregnancy plot! i'm saying that it has the POTENTIAL TO BE, which it does.

as always under the mf cut

'“strong girlboss lead who has never accomplished anything in the show and is reminded of how her womanhood limits everything she does has to reconcile the way her body and ability to become pregnant can also be weaponized against her” is actually a fucked up storyline' .....i don't understand. for one thing, i did not say jackshit about her pregnancy being weaponized against her. that is not at all what i was saying she had to reconcile with. i was saying she had to reconcile with the fact that she simply will not be seen as a man, and that maybe that's okay, and maybe she can still be a ~girlboss~ while still yknow being a girl. why are yall acting like pregnancy is this inherently agency-robbing thing that only exists to ruin the characterizations of strong women? you do know that it exists in real life, right? like, is this what you think about women who are pregnant in real life? because, like, everything you just described is just... i mean, that's not unique to this plot point. that's just part and parcel of being born with a womb. that's just fucking LIFE. that's just how shit IS sometimes. like YES you can be a strong girlboss and still not accomplish anything because a) you're a woman surrounded by men b) you're desperately attempting to act like a man and in reality are only performing a parody of 'masculinity' that's more harmful to you than it is helpful, but you feel it's the only way to survive, YES your womanhood limits everything you does (so long as 'everything' means 'success in your male-dominated career aspirations among your misogynistic family'), YES your body and ability to become pregnant can be weaponized. that's not inherently a fucked up sexist plotline? that's just how life is for a lot of women???? so why the fuck is it bad to show a woman struggling to reconcile with that FACT because it is a fucking FACT?! it is a FACT that women are judged for being pregnant!!! it is not a fucked up plotline to acknowledge that!!!!! what WOULD BE fucked up is centering her entire character around becoming a mother or something, which i just really fucking doubt they'll do. instead, i think it'll be used as a way to explore parts of shiv we haven't seen.

also, saying shiv's main plot lines have been "hating other women, fighting with her husband, and now being pregnant" .... like. i don't know man. did you kind of forget the part where she was a political consultant or fighting to become ceo of a major conglomerate or something? i would maybe argue that... well, that fighting to become ceo of waystar is her main plot line. not... hating other women? really, the only thing we know about shiv's life and desires is that she wants to be fucking ceo of waystar so she can get logan's approval. that is it. that is why i would like to know more about her PERSONAL life. about her PERSONAL wants and needs and desires -- maybe it's to have kids, maybe it's to never fucking have kids whatsoever and jetset around the world. i don't care!!! i just want to learn more about whatever is underneath her veneer of 'masculinity,' whatever is outside of her relationships with men. aaaaaaaaaaand i think having to deal with something as personal and body-focused and life-changing as a pregnancy will force her to ask questions about herself she's always been too afraid to ask, and i'm interested to see what the answers are!!!

it's not revolutionary to have a pregnancy plotline. fucking obviously. what WOULD be revolutionary is allowing a character who has defined herself by, as you said, wishing she was a man -- allowing her to still be her same ole manipulative masculine whatever self while still allowing her to consider a life involving a family or love. just consider!!!! because i don't think she even has. her focus is ONLY on career, on success, on being respected. like, actually, the only aspects of her 'desires' etc that we DONT know are those related to love and family. we know what she wants career wise! why are you acting like she hasn't been incredibly career-focused this entire time? i just want to know what shiv roy wants on a human level!!! because i don't think anyone is JUST SATISFIED with career!!!!! not saying you need kids, god no idek if i'll have kids fr, but that there is more to life outside of that. so i want to know what she wants from life, because frankly, i don't think she's had the time or energy to even focus on that with how desperately she's had to fight to stay in the room. but now she has to actually start considering herself as an individual with a life outside waystar -- something she really hasn't done since she worked for gil in season one. ever since, her life has been waystar waystar waystar. but pregnancy.... well. that's something that's her own, especailly given that no one else knows about it right now. so i want to know more about shiv. that's all. and that's what i think this arc can tell us, and that's why i'm excited for it.