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nobody-knose--archive · 4 years

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so guess who bought complete demos today on a whim

yeah i wasn’t expecting this one to be over as quickly as it was either. have your liveblog

-complete demos. i bought it today & already forgot the tracklist. listening to it on the mp3 player i got for hmcrmshcidshdamsth because why not. makes pausing/typing easier that's why

-who the heck just coughed

-good lord the mixing is. and boy that's steve drumming isn't it. wow

-i mean we've got the stereo panning just like ever but this is incredibly rough. they are true babies aren't they

-oh those flutes are amazing what the hell. can people stop yelling in my individual ears

-and there's the rough megaphone. it's so incredibly clear that these aren't studio recordings but like. still tally hall!

-i think i'm finding many of these a little too funny but gotdam you're pitchbending your own voice do you really expect that to not sound so goofy at such a high pitch

-oh we're not slowing down at all, this is the same tempo as before for sure

-the flipping around audio channels is very not good at all when it comes to disguising the cuts between takes

-a sculptor you say? (is that one in the later versions? i don't remember it at all)

-nothing but rob's voices in the background and maybe 1 or two from red. no ross bits whatsoever. that's wild

-quick move into the greener intro and even quicker movement into greener itself

-well those are extra harmonies. interesting that they removed them for later versions because they're not bad, maybe a little out of place though

-honestly the biggest difference in steve vs ross drumming seems to be more a difference in the quality of the drums themselves. or the recording software but that applies to everything in this album

-it's painfully obvious that everything was recorded in really different circumstances & not mixed professionally and yep. complete demos alright. not inaccurately named in the slightest

-reminds me of the beta versions of g&e songs we heard live before they appeared on the album, makes me wonder if we could've gotten an admittedly complete demos for g&e somehow

-anyway these little different synths-

-hello there rob. alternate bridge. i have remembered this is a thing. something about tissues? a shoulder to cry on? cool

-yeah the little different synths do capture my attention from time to time

-and a basic piano for the outro? huh. sure gives it a different tone alright

-hm? who's that right at the end there- ooh! wtth time! and this still has steve in it doesn't it?

-generally more enthusiasm when it comes to that T, wonder what lost him attention in later years

-boy is that beatboxing weirdly mixed.

-lawn

-well this chorus is actually rather snazzy. the vocals seem better mixed than anything else i've heard in this album

-"who's to blame?" that's like the 4th time now i've heard someone's random voice that i can't recognize. ...it couldn't be steve, could it? i am now aware i have absolutely no clue what his voice sounds like but that seems like it could fit. hm

-zubin sounds really unenthusiastic here. just faintly unenthusiastic all over the place. still sounds more like "badiggle" than anything else

-oh shit they're falling down a well

-red's bit is hella unchanged other than the direct invasion of my individual ears & extra megaphone useage (i really wish the megaphone became more of a tally icon than it did but that's neither here nor there)

-it's rather more barebones though. less andrew keys in general. the calliope-reminiscent synth he uses is different i suppose.

-they did more stuff with funny crowd voices i think i've noticed. playing around with falsetto, as a college band dude might do

-ok yeah steve is a worse drummer. don't ask me what made me change my mind but i did

-wow a crowd that can consistently clap on the 1-2-3-4? how utterly unrealistic

-no wonky wild & weird intro to taken for a ride because i don't think it's on this album. understandable, i can't imagine what sort of wild hell the vocoder would be if it was attempted this early in its lifespan

-1st 2 piano chords of just apathy has me thinking of i know your name (deporitaz ver.) which is certainly as good a start to a song as any

-extended piano intro has me thinking of the ending of mold en mono but nope here's rob's voice to completely knock that impression out of the water

-ohoho? rob cantor swearing momence? i hadn't realized there'd be this many lyric changes

-interestingly enough this track doesn't seem horrendously mixed so far- nevermind that guitar/piano together is way too loud

-the guitar itself does have a pretty cool unique sound. obviously they hadn't had any access to string instruments at this point so given that those're the main thing separating this song from your average sade rock ballad there aren't a whole lot of notable differences here other than said guitar

-very different tone to this lil bridge. faintly reminiscent of weezer but it's not like i know anything about weezer

-sounds like the same synth from wtth being used in the bg there. what, did they have just that limited a selection so as to need repetition that frequently, or did they really like how it sounds? hard to tell with 200 (uhhhh) 4 college band dudes

-and right into two wuv. yes i had heard there's no haiku in this one but i forget what else will be missing. not sure if anything else will other than hidden in the sand. they would have ruler of everything, right? and a track that appears here but not any other albums? something like that i think

-more of that piano in the bg and more of mildly unenthusiastic zubin singing. different melody for said singing but it's not much of a secret that these guys were more untrained vocalists at this time

- .subsides?

-this chorus sounds significantly more laid-back than the later version

-the extra piano part sure moves this piece way further away from "rock love song" & way closer to "andrew horowitz song", especially that lil flourish where a bee buzzing might otherwise be

-ooh! andrew! he speaks! so does zubin! this song's two olsen boys coming in for a weird bridge bit! hell yeah oh this is adorable

-"because there's 2 of them :}"

-hm. are they actually just removing various parts because they don't have the technological capabilities to do a straight fadeout here? got dam

-i suppose letting zubin do a final solo-ish cadence works too

-uh- say it ain't so‽ w. no this is stationary love, the song that appeared here & nowhere else. cool, cool. strange but cool i guess

-i guess that can explain the multitude of weezer comparisons made for these lads. it's certainly there. honestly andrew was the only thing keeping them from being true weezer successors

-pure acoustic guitar thus far. this is my first time hearing this song of course & it seems like a pretty typical rob "homophonic heterophobic" cantor song

-nothing but acoustic guitar. nothing but rob vocals. nothing but alloromanticism. guess what! it's not my cup of tea! however i can't help but think if this song was worked on more, fixed up a la either mmmm release, with some more andrew/red touches, i could enjoy it some more

-not even any drumming. the simplicity could easily explain why it wasn't played live very often at all

-so the next thing i expect is some very funky & very weird spring and a storm which should highlight steve's (worse) drumming more than anything else i'm sure

-nevermind banana man's just getting slapped directly in here out of order compared to the later mmmm releases. this version i have indeed heard before because it's the version used in the music video

-therefore i have very little to say about it i haven't said on any of the other banana men. or other tracks on this album. the intrusions of vocal harmonies seem jarring because they're not mixed professionally, an effect that's only enhanced by the stereo panning & intense reverb

-this song really didn't change all that much over its lifespan, did it? vocal flairs were redone, but relatively few harmonies were added/removed, i don't think things like the bridge(s) were modified severely. not as noticeably as any of the other songs, at the very least

-i'm pretty sure i can hear andrew's voice in there but beyond that this is severely unsettling

-back to the chorus wahoo. relievingly familiar territory

-get out of my left ear hawaiian guitar- wait a minute are my earbuds on wrong

-no i'm good

-oh holy shit i forgot this had to be somewhere didn't it‽ i know it's just the same! ok ok

-i've heard this one but only because i had no idea it was from complete demos, it's like rather polished too so i had never considered it would be on an unpolished album like this. i also had no idea that was goddam steve drumming in there too hot damn

-and this is the only recording of it‽ that's wild i always thought it was redone at some point & just kinda. manifested in one of the vague ways miscellaneous high quality tally hall songs do

-it's another romance one but the guitar arpeggios and extra layers give it a pass in my book. man i should watch the music video for it shouldn't i

-i still think it's utterly wild how tally hall played this at an actual high school's homecoming once. wouldn't that just blow your mind

-there's not a major difference between how it's performed here & what i've heard of it in from the occasional live performance, which is making me realize i should watch more live performances of this song

-angstier prequel to hidden in the sand

-or sidequel maybe. depends really. we can tell whatever stories we like

-did my hidden in the sand sotry come out of the queue yet? i feel like i queued it a while ago but also like y'all would've said something if you'd seen it

-bit slow paced innit. much like everything else in this album, it would have gained much from a professional studio treatment, but its mixing & general quality is still surely the best out of everything i've heard so far

-working your falsetto there aren't you my dude? ooh boy

-ruler of everything.... so no spring & a storm? >{

-yeah. ok. weird glockenspiel. almost sounds like a music box

-no vocoding either! i just realized that's a thing here! curious. and... those are some heavily wonky sfx in the background

-who's singing those aaaaas anyway? it's not a chorus which i thought could surely be handled and there's really minimal reverb too; strange considering not only is reverb a jh trademark but easily doable here

-the piano synth used is mostly identical to the 05 mmmm- oh holy shit there's different lyrics & they're being beamed directly into my skull

-even more nonsensical & it's because you can hear them hella easily too. that backwards segment did not need to go on as long as it did. also

-so no zubin vocals? >{

-slapping 5 billion vocal effects on doesn't make up for a lack of the best singer in this damn band

-especially because he sounds reminiscent of goddam fred. being fred before fred was even a thing. oh how accursed

-quiet down your guitars when you're singing shouting through a megaphone if you please

-and there's the earstrain-ass reverb + vocoding on the flibbity jibber jabber reprise. i feared as much would happen. doesn't sound horrible i just need to turn down the volume on my mp3 player

-honestly thing whole thing isn't bad at all in the sense that it's mostly just strongly different from the later versions & lacks zubin

-lease stop yelling though my dude schwiggling your voice like that isn't always a good thing at high volumes

-is that the end? are we.... at the end? i heard that's the name of some song from like sketches or something

-no. how silly of me to assume as much. anyway my dude needs to fix up his ukulele this one sounds like shit

-no vocal effects makes me realize how few times we got this one live-

-now what would you call a wonky little transition like that? puts a smile on my face, even if it does take me by surprise at the same time

-but at least one of the times this was done live featured casey shea

-now for the love of god i already hate the ending of something glowing (view-monster) for its weird-ass asmr finale don't reverse someone's cough & twiddle your ukulele strings directly into my right ear to end an otherwise really nice version of hidden in the sand if you please. oh mama mia. good night

#tally hall #loolin liveblogs #joe is mentioned sometimes but not by name fyi #tis i #as usual it's recommended that you listen to the album in question as you read to get a better idea of the context #because 9 times out of 10 i won't tell you it #i feel like i come off as slightly negative for much of this. what can i say complete demos is an album of amateur demos #the songs aren't as good as their later counterparts by nature & that's all i ever have to say #to the world and back again

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comicteaparty · 5 years

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February 1st-February 7th, 2020 Creator Babble Archive

The archive for the Creator Babble chat that occurred from February 1st, 2020 to February 7th, 2020. The chat focused on the following question:

What is the nicest thing someone has said about your story, whether its published or still a WIP?

Deo101 [Millennium]

Well, this is one I can answer right away. It's not a very straightforward answer, but I had someone reference me and my comic in an essay about reasons why they were able to love themself... It was for a creative writing class, and they just used me as an example of a greater thing (indie media)... and I only know about it because they asked me permission. but they let me read the essay, and it made me cry. I havent heard from them in a while and I really hope they're okay, but that really stuck with me in a way nothing else has. It's not really a quote, though, so the nicest comment I have recieved was "I can tell how much you love people by reading this story." It was really sweet in a way I can't quite articulate. People have been incredibly sweet to me, and I feel very blessed. I could make a long list detailing the kindness I have been shown.

LadyLazuli (Phantomarine)

Apparently Phantomarine (http://www.phantomarine.com/) has made more than one person cry already. Which, to me, is pretty darn high praise, given that I've barely begun the story

Having people find it and say "THIS IS EXACTLY THE KIND OF STORY I'VE BEEN LOOKING FOR" also hits a nerve. I know that feeling. You like certain themes/motifs and you wish someone would blend them together in just the right way. It can be magical.

And the last one is when I learned that children like it. A few have come forward so far - either in person or through their parents - and told me they loved it. It was around that age that I was building my own 'inner library' of inspirations for the comic. To know that I might be part of theirs, even in a small way, is just... the best?

Deo101 [Millennium]

that's all so incredibly nice <3

and now I wanna add to my list actually I don't want to interrupt, this is just a topic I wish I could sing from the rooftops about... I also had a student of mine (I am a teacher at a church) come out to me because he knew I would be okay with who he is. And, I have had people tell me it's inspiring to them, which kinda makes my heart melt. I'll stop now but, really I could go on and on about how open and loving people have been with me and my work, and how much it means to me.

Cronaj (Whispers of the Past)

Man... This is somewhat difficult for me to answer since I am so early into my comic creating journey. However, I will say that I recently got a comment on my comic Whispers of the Past (https://www.webtoons.com/en/challenge/whispers-of-the-past/list?title_no=191366) that made me smile. A long time reader commented that they always read my new pages twice, once on Webtoon, and again on Tapas. This really made me realize that my work has meaning to somebody other than myself, which is definitely what I need to hear when I'm doubting myself.

Mei

It's so nice reading about nice comments people have gotten and honestly... y'all deserve it!! I need to be in a better habit of commenting myself because I will promote comics to my friends for days on end but I'm too shy to leave a comment, even though I love receiving comments myself. I think the nicest comments I've received have been in combination with the conventions I was at last year. People told me that they thought the comic was funny, which I am incredibly thankful for. And one person who bought the book at the convention took the time to find it on Tapas and then comment on the latest page, saying that they'd talked to me, read the book, and that they liked it. That meant so much to me it was crazy! And another time, I was showing my book to someone at a convention and she said that she actually read the comic online, which honestly... It's so strange and surreal to me to meet anyone in real life who reads things posted online. It made my heart do smiley emoji. I think what LadyLazuli said is really right, this idea that you're a small part of someone's life or inspirations or just general day is pretty amazing?! Also this one guy commented on every page week to week with the same 'vase' joke on several updates and honestly the commitment was truly astounding

kayotics

I think some of the nicest comments come from one specific reader, who has mentioned a couple times that going back and reading the comic has helped them through some tough times. There was also one person who went to the effort of contacting me after their books were damaged from flooding, and wanted to buy new books to replace the old ones. This was wild since they wanted to do something so inconvenient (paying with cash by mail, and I didn't even have an online storefront in the first place) to replace the books.

twothirty

really early on i had 1 reader that would leave in-depth analysis of some character interactions and they were were spot on and made me really feel like people cared about this story . The other interaction that really stands out was doing the convention circuit last year I had a reader come up to say hi, and usually that interaction is just "i love your comic!" (which is amazing) but he also then talked to me at length about the story and again it was this feeling of just knowing someone out there cares about what you're doing. Comics feels particularly isolating so interactions like that really keep me going.

Funari (Raison d’Etre)

I've had two different readers tell me our comic has brought them joy during bad days. Sadly one of them I haven't heard from in 2 years and they were going through some rough times. I hope they're okay

Nutty (Court of Roses)

The nicest thing I've heard was when my coworker told me him and his daughter were reading it, and he told me that she's "drawing like me" with panels and stuff and keeps asking him "how do i make the bubbles" So they're gonna work on that and then he's gonna show it to me.

keii4ii

Any time someone gets what I'm trying to do with the story. I have a great fear of getting good intentioned people trashing the most important parts of my story (without realizing their importance). So whenever someone gets what the story is all about, whether as a whole or just one scene, it's a huge weight off my chest. Legit brings tears to my eyes. Even if I manage to overcome that fear some day, comments like that would mean a lot to me. Being understood has always been very important to me.

sssfrs (JOE IS DEAD)

Someone recently said they wanted to get a tattoo of something in the comic and that was cool. It also means a lot when people respond well to the jokes in the comic because I put a lot into the writing to make it funny. I hope it makes someone cry someday Joe Is Dead http://joeisdead.com/read

DanitheCarutor

Ffff all my readers have been so compassionate, it's jarring! In a nice way! Choosing one nice thing is hard, every comment has been nice. I guess the most flattering is when a someone takes the time to go back to the previous chapters to link little things up with the current events in the story, or when they manage to remember in spite of how webcomics update so slowly. There was a comment I saved a while back where someone remembered a small thing in chapter 3 and was doing some brainstorming with it relating to the current chapter at the time.

Every so often someone also leaves a paragraph with some of the most motivational gushing, it's so nice! Oh! Also, there have been a few people who've asked me to print my comic so they can have a physical copy (which I'm slowly starting to do), which is super motivating knowing a couple people like my depressing comic enough to want to own a copy of it.

keii4ii

Oh man, I too have saved screenshots of some of my favorite comments, but I don't wanna share them because 1) some of them are long and 2) maybe the commenters wouldn't want their names disclosed in a different context? They are great to save for a rainy day, though!

Tuyetnhi

Oh this is hard I remember one comment on tapas that they got their aunt and cousin reading it and I was flattered! Most comments I got were about the artstyle and progression of the story, which I hope to continue if school lets me. Still, I'm quite surprised that it drove someone to get their family to read a romance about someone's dream lover lmao

also same keii!

Cronaj (Whispers of the Past)

Honestly, I have far too many comments I should screenshot. But so many of them are praising the art, and I never know how to feel about it. Like, those types of comments make me happy, but I never know how to truly feel about them.

keii4ii

Art is admittedly easier to comment on. If I'm commenting on art on anyone's comic, I try to point out how it contributes to the storytelling, rather than "ooh pretty and shiny." Pretty and shiny is valid but I'd be just doing illustrations if that were my main goal!

Cronaj (Whispers of the Past)

But if 9/10 comments are, "Wow, the art is so pretty!" I can't really react to it much, especially since my own self-doubt is constantly reminding me of my mistakes.

FeatherNotes(Krispy)

I've been really excited to answer this question because it gives me an opportunity to thank any and all the fans and people who celebrate our work. I've been so humbled by all of the wonderful and amazing fanart we've received, music paired with scenes from our comic, and fans even imagining scenarios of the characters themselves-- I'm constantly blown away! I do have my most treasured moment however, and that was when we were tabling at TCAF a couple years back. We had been swamped with crowds, selling, and early mornings-- it was a long day! That was until we had one person who went through the trouble to see us in person, and handcraft a drawing to deliver to us, saying thank you, and in that moment I bawled!! They quickly left after us thanking them so much, and I'll never forget that and how much it gave us a fire to see this whole project through. We have it framed and it sits in front of our cpu

Cronaj (Whispers of the Past)

I got one comment where someone said that one of my main characters "seems sweet," and it just left me confused because, a) he's only said about ten words total, and b) in those ten words, he has somehow managed to be rude.

So how is he sweet???

But I mean, I should be happy that he seems likeable despite his attitude and reticence

Tuyetnhi

nice lmao

I do agree about the comments about the artwork being pretty and idk how to repond other than thanks lmao(edited)

Cronaj (Whispers of the Past)

Yep

That's pretty much all I can say

Because I would HOPE my art looks pretty good after a decade drawing haha

Tuyetnhi

tho tbh because of the nature of my comic, I do get the occasional thirst comment and I'm just sitting there bawling

Cronaj (Whispers of the Past)

Oh yeah, I get those

Tuyetnhi

"Wow he's buff"

"yea bc I made him like that lmao"

Cronaj (Whispers of the Past)

People drooling about my male MC mainly

It's so awkward, but I knew it would happen

Tuyetnhi

same, but for the male love interest and i'm like "this is expected lmao"

Cronaj (Whispers of the Past)

I KNEW WHAT I WAS DOING

keii4ii

I get like 0 thirsty comment despite one of the MCs being an athletic cat dude with literal secret tentacles (I'm okay with not getting a lot of thirsty comments, but I do find it interesting)

Eightfish (Puppeteer)

I've gotten thirsty comments and my comic is not meant to be romantic or sexy at all

Cronaj (Whispers of the Past)

Oh, I can leave you some thirsty comments

I love Lu

Eightfish (Puppeteer)

I was going to say they are inevitable(edited)

but kei proved that wrong

Tuyetnhi

same I love Lu too lmao

Cronaj (Whispers of the Past)

And will gladly praise his hotness

Eightfish (Puppeteer)

if your comic goes on for long enough, i think you will get some eventually. it is a rule of the internet

keii4ii

It's been ongoing since Nov 2014 XD But I guess it takes longer for some than others!

Cronaj (Whispers of the Past)

@keii4ii I don't think you quite understand

I have never been attracted to animal-people before

I have always found anthros and such weird

And yet

Lu is totally my thing

Tuyetnhi

Strangely attractive for a cat guy lol

points for those who get the ref

Eightfish (Puppeteer)

how do you guys know what their comic is?

Cronaj (Whispers of the Past)

He is way too attractive

keii4ii

Mine? Cronaj and Tuyetnhi came across it outside this Discord, I believe!

Cronaj (Whispers of the Past)

Yep

I have been reading it for a few years now

Although I can't say exactly when, because HoK has been a part of my life for so long

Tuyetnhi

I think I started reading it a year or 2 ago lol

DanitheCarutor

@keii4ii The only nice thing about Webtoons is that there aren't any profiles to check, so you can't look up fans via their comments. Also if you did Google their username there isn't a guarantee whoever you find would be that Webtoons user without them telling you. Lmao! About the thirsty comments, I used to get them a lot of Webtoons. There was this one scene where my smaller MC pulled the taller one to their face to say "Your friend is dead", before shoving him away and walking off. Some of my readers went wild! They wanted the two MCs to make-out so bad, even though the scene clearly had no romantic chemistry... or even the entire comic for that matter. My thirsty bunch came off really desperate and reaching at times.

Cronaj (Whispers of the Past)

Omg, that's just precious

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

I really have never gotten thirsty comments, with the exception of one or two very mild 'Oh, that character is attractive' comments. But I think my comics just don't really attract thirsty readers. Of course, I rarely get any reader feedback, so that's probably part of it.

keii4ii

@DanitheCarutor Yeah, that's a plus about the semi-anonymity! My screenshots are from less anonymous places, so yeah. Some are also from like... Discord, where the person may not even have expected the comment to be archived in any way. (Sometimes I actually asked if I could screenshot, but I don't know if I asked every time...)

sssfrs (JOE IS DEAD)

No one has ever reported finding my characters attractive

Deo101 [Millennium]

People thinking my characters are hot is a pretty common thing, and usually I don't mind but... sometimes it's the bane of my existence.

It's always a little bit weird, though

every time someone is like "dat ass " I'm like alright bud keep it to urself

it's part of why I made all of my characters adults, actually

people even before I started making it, just when I was talking to them about it or showing my art would STILL be overly sexual about my characters so I aged them up where it felt less weird for me.

kayotics

I’ll get thirst comments every once in a while, usually on tapas. I don’t mind it too much, especially since I’m usually making characters that I’m also attracted to? I usually think thirst comments are funny

DanitheCarutor

Pfff I'm in a similar boat to Deo's. Usually I don't mind, but there are moments where it sucks. Like there will be a really serious, or heavy scene and someone will pop up with "Make them kiss!!", "Don't be mean to your future hubby, X! Kiss him and make up!!". It totally feels they don't actually care about the story and just want something to jack it off to. xD I don't get a whole lot of thirst anymore, which is nice. I think the vocal group lost interest after being blue-balled for 3-4 chapters. Weirdest thing, I have yet to get anyone saying my characters are attractive... well, some readers used to say Julian (my questionable looking non-binary character) was pretty but they weren't really thirsty, just observations. At least they came off like that. My style makes characters look kind of ugly, so comments about any of my cast being attractive is non-existent. @keii4ii Ooh yeah, I can see how that would be an issue. Although, if you really want to show off some super nice comments, you can also just cover or blur out their username and icon image. A lot of people do that, it's really good for keeping up the user's anonymity, and I don't think they would mind since you're not using their words slanderously.

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

Can I admit I sort of wish I got some thirsty and shipping comments? I also draw characters I think are hawt so I kinda wish my readers felt the same way. XD I don’t really want them in Ashes were my characters are teens, but in Eryl where 95% of the cast is legal age, I kinda wish some people wanted to be a little bit thirsty about it. XD

Deo101 [Millennium]

Yeah, i just wish it wasnt... Idk sometimes it seems like thats ALL people see and it makes me sad

Like theres other stuff going on...

eli [a winged tale]

I feel you too Cap’n! I sort of expected shipping comments for AWT https://www.webtoons.com/en/challenge/keyspace-a-winged-tale/list?title_no=322364 but yeah they’re still kids discovering themselves! When I start my adult fantasy comic (tentatively planned), then I’m all on board for sure. For the question, I love and screenshot every comment to peruse whenever I feel down. I treasure all of them but one that particularly stood out for me was a writer reimagining all their stories with my art and characters and that just about made me cry happy tears

LadyLazuli (Phantomarine)

So far the only 'thirst comments' I've gotten are when the comic gets even the slightest bit... gay I can't say my story revolves around major LGBTQ+ themes, but people have picked up on random bits of subtext between characters (which is mostly intentional on my part, not gonna lie) and specifically take time to comment on them. It makes me happy to see people reading between the lines. And it also helps me know what the readers like or are really looking for. So... yeah, I'm gonna keep on that path

eli [a winged tale]

Did I miss that in phantomarine?? Howww

LadyLazuli (Phantomarine)

The subtlest of subtle subtext... which will become far less subtle over time

Nutty (Court of Roses)

i am deliberately pushing my main ship to get ppl into it lmao

YOU WANT THESE TWO TO KISS, I PROMISE

LadyLazuli (Phantomarine)

GOSH I know this feeling too well I feel like I don't want to overwhelm the readers, but I want them to still realize "...Hmmmmmm, yeah I kinda want this."

eli [a winged tale]

I’m so intrigued now

LadyLazuli (Phantomarine)

good

Eightfish (Puppeteer)

wait i can't think of anything remotely gay/romantic in phantomarine

besides maybe

phaedra and... cheth?

eli [a winged tale]

The shipping comments in AWT are currently on point at exactly where I want them to be

Eightfish (Puppeteer)

i don't believe you would go for that, but shipping enemies is a very common fandom thing

sssfrs (JOE IS DEAD)

I wish I had more people shipping my characters because I'm all alone in it right now

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

@Nutty (Court of Roses) I'm doing the same in Ashes. I'm being super obvious about Anor x Rava being a future couple. XD

So far I haven't really gotten any comments about it. Idk if my readers care about romance at all.

Which is okay, because I don't really write much romance into my comics.

Even though I secretly wish for a bit of shipping from readers.

sssfrs (JOE IS DEAD)

I have to find out how visibly and obviously gay the characters have to act before people pick up on it

Eightfish (Puppeteer)

sssfrs, your comic just doesn't feel like the kind of comic people would ship characters in, though. Even the relationship between the captain and the guy that left, though lovely, feels, i don't know, too mature to really ship?

sssfrs (JOE IS DEAD)

It's not the focus of the plot though so it's not essential just would be fun

Deo101 [Millennium]

people were shipping page 2 for me so idk

sssfrs (JOE IS DEAD)

That's a fair way to look at it

Deo101 [Millennium]

apparently they need to be next to eachother , in my experience

Eightfish (Puppeteer)

i think the art style plays a part, too

people were shipping my characters also from page two. But I have a "prettier" style than sssfrs

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

Yeah, I think the only way readers even know my characters are queer is from the extra art I make of them for Pride month each year. On panel the gay isn't incredibly obvious.

Deo101 [Millennium]

yeah, and I do WANT people to ship them so its not like I mind. I like shippers (when they are in line with my plans)

eli [a winged tale]

Yes Deo!! Exactly

sssfrs (JOE IS DEAD)

Some characters I think have a great dynamic but I just haven't published enough of the material that shows their chemistry yet so I can't blame anyone for not seeing it

LadyLazuli (Phantomarine)

^same for me

Eightfish (Puppeteer)

looking forward to seeing that in both your comics!

i follow both

eli [a winged tale]

That’s fair ssfrs I’m all for the slow burn

sssfrs (JOE IS DEAD)

It's true that my goal isn't to make the characters visually attractive and appealing in that way as much as in personality and interactions

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

I do keep seeing people leave 1* ratings for Eryl on WT and I can't help but wonder if it's homophobes angry about a character sheet I shared that mentioned the character was lovingly raised by two dads. Bc there has been nothing really controversial on-panel in the comic, and I have such a small audience it has no other reason to keep attracting hate.

Eightfish (Puppeteer)

yeah, that's what i was trying to say. couldn't think of a good way to say that though. but i like your art and feel like it fits your story well

( at sssfrs)

i don't think there are a large number of homophobes on WT. If anything, there's an overabundance of the opposite- fetishists

people leave 1 star on WT for random reasons like you not updating enough

don't worry about it

eli [a winged tale]

Link your webcomics? With <> . Love to check them out

Eightfish (Puppeteer)

https://www.webtoons.com/en/challenge/puppeteer/list?title_no=290620

Deo101 [Millennium]

I get a lot of fetishists, yeah....

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

https://www.webtoons.com/en/challenge/dark-wings-eryl/list?title_no=287293

Deo101 [Millennium]

https://www.webtoons.com/en/challenge/millennium/list?title_no=110866

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

Idk, maybe they don't like that I update in traditional pages, then, Who knows

All I know is every time my ratings start crawling back up, suddenly they'll take a big hit.(edited)

Deo101 [Millennium]

idk, some people just seem to do that kinda thing

I have thought it could be other creators before, too...

trying to make less competition or something. but that would be cruel and I dont like to think someone would do that

so I prefer to think its just someone who didnt like my stuff

Eightfish (Puppeteer)

eh i prefer to think the best of people

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

It's not like I'm super successful or anything. The algorithms haven't been kind to either of my comics so I'm hardly competition.

Eightfish (Puppeteer)

i'm not going to think it's other creators

Deo101 [Millennium]

yeah that's what Im saying

like its popped in my head and then I was like literally who would do that

thatd be reaaaaal messed up

Eightfish (Puppeteer)

hey, how to i add my comic name in paren to my name on this server?

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

Unfortunately I know a lot of creators who would. They just don't hang out in spaces like these.

Deo101 [Millennium]

just edit your nickname in the options

sssfrs (JOE IS DEAD)

Mine is called Joe Is Dead, on here http://joeisdead.com/ and on tapas https://tapas.io/series/JoeIsDead

Deo101 [Millennium]

oh right I actually have another comic. It was on hiatus over a year so I havent gotten into the habit of sharing it...

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

Yeah, go to the ... next to the server name and it opens up a menu with the 'change nickname' option.

Deo101 [Millennium]

https://tapas.io/series/Time-and-Time-again

sssfrs (JOE IS DEAD)

I put the title in my name

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

My other comic is here on WT: https://www.webtoons.com/en/challenge/children-of-shadow-ashes/list?title_no=145048&page=1

Eightfish (Puppeteer)

i just don't like dismissing negative feedback. I don't want to get negative reviews and just brush them off as jealous people because i know my comic definitely has room to improve and would rather negative feedback motivate me to look for ways how

got it, thanks!

sssfrs (JOE IS DEAD)

I love negative feedback. I want to put out the best work I can & hearing what people don't like or don't think is working helps me do that

Deo101 [Millennium]

theres constructive feedback, and then theres people telling me my characters are stupid and I think I can brush the latter off

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

Unfortunately, I have been the victim of vicious jealous reviews. I've seen a lot of ugly in the webcomic world over the many years I've been doing this. Some creators be petty.

Eightfish (Puppeteer)

@sssfrs (JOE IS DEAD) hm if i were to give negative feedback about your comic I'd say the biggest things are that you have a lot of characters that in my mind are kind of hard to differentiate, and also it can be really hard to tell where your characters are in space. But those don't matter too much, as they both will probably get better with time. Your biggest strength imo in your dialogue anyways

keii4ii

Not every negative feedback is relevant to my goals, is key for me. It's the whole "you can't please everyone" principle. My target audience does not include every person out there. If my target audience falls in love with what I make, then that's success for me. I don't need to impress the rest of the world.

keii4ii

(Thanks Tatsu.)

Deo101 [Millennium]

You have a different definition of "negative feedback" than I do.

Eightfish (Puppeteer)

who are you referring to?(edited)

Deo101 [Millennium]

You

Eightfish (Puppeteer)

in what way?

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

I can usually tell the difference between 'This person has a different idea of what this story should be than I do' and 'This person has it out for me because of jealousy or spite'

sssfrs (JOE IS DEAD)

Yeah I've found it really hard to juggle the consistency with where characters are standing all the time. I write out lists of the order they're spatially located in an effort to keep track of them. Hopefully I'll get better with practice

Deo101 [Millennium]

the negative feedback I am talking about is basically straight up hate. Constructive criticism, pointing out the flaws of a work, isnt "negative feedback" by my definition.

so saying "I want negative feedback" means something different for you than it does for me.

i WILL dismiss people being straight up rude to me

Eightfish (Puppeteer)

hm, I feel like a lot of people define negative feedback the same way i do, constructive criticism about what you could do better. If you say you dont want negative feedback you might get people thinking you don't want critique at all. imo what you are referring to might be more clearly just called "hate"

Deo101 [Millennium]

I'll consider it if someone is trying to help, even if most of the time I ignore it

Cronaj (Whispers of the Past)

I also get the random 1 star ratings on Webtoon, so I think some people are just easy to hate stuff(edited)

Eightfish (Puppeteer)

yo sssfrs, you keep track of where characters are in space by writing lists??

Cronaj (Whispers of the Past)

These are probably also the same people who dislike videos habitually on Youtube

Eightfish (Puppeteer)

i can't imagine working with that

Deo101 [Millennium]

I actually dont want critique at all.

Eightfish (Puppeteer)

it seems so hard

Deo101 [Millennium]

not if I dont ask for it.

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

Con crit and hate aren't the same thing, though

One is genuinely trying to help you improve, the other is just trying to bring you down.(edited)

And it's okay to not want the former

Deo101 [Millennium]

and I would say "negative feedback" doesnt include con crit

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

Just because you make something doesn't mean you have to want people to give crit on it.(edited)

Yeah

I agree, because GOOD con crit is usually polite because if the person knows what they're talking about, they were where you are now and will be nice about it.

Cronaj (Whispers of the Past)

From my experience the best critiques come from other artists doing similar work to you

Eightfish (Puppeteer)

i don't think all negative con crit is helpful, either. people also need to know what their strengths are so they know what to keep instead of just what to remove

Cronaj (Whispers of the Past)

They might not even be trying specifically to be nice about it

But their words feel less hurtful

eli [a winged tale]

I feel like there are comments which are reviews (fair enough, everyone has subjective opinions) but I feel like constructive criticisms should be more private and take place in specific settings (most importantly where the creators are in a position of wanting them)

Nutty (Court of Roses)

@eli [a winged tale] https://courtofroses.spiderforest.com/

eli [a winged tale]

What I think most readers don’t understand or know is that the comic that does make its way to the public quite often has already been through rigorous critique and feedback

Nutty (Court of Roses)

(sorry, was late to that haha, i agree on your feelings about crits)

Deo101 [Millennium]

see, I dont know what you mean by "negative con crit" In my experience, a critique that is negative is not a critique and is more an opportunity for someone to flex.

helpful critiques may FEEL negative, because they are pointing out your flaws, but they arent negative

Eightfish (Puppeteer)

i think you're defining "negative" and "hateful" the same way, but other people are not(edited)

eli [a winged tale]

I call them constructive feedback. Then on the other hand, yeah there are negative comments that are there to serve the OP’s sentiments(edited)

Deo101 [Millennium]

I use constructive if it is helpful, and negative if it is harmful

eli [a winged tale]

But I just don’t think the comment platform supports the constructive feedback part. The comments currently represent the OP’s views which are very much subjective. It’s hard to know if they are providing feedback from a place of knowing story structure/art competency

Eightfish (Puppeteer)

critique does mean a lot more when I ask for it from an artist I respect

eli [a winged tale]

Indeed. It’s quite an intimate process

Eightfish (Puppeteer)

but i can still take casual comments into consideration when trying to improve

things like, it's confusing, or i don't understand what's happening

eli [a winged tale]

I think trust in the critiquer’s background and intention for you to improve are imperative(edited)

Eightfish (Puppeteer)

speaking of comments that say the comic is confusing, god i hate getting those comments the most. Because they come from people genuinely trying to read and like my comic and represent a failure of my storytelling skills

eli [a winged tale]

Plus there is a skill/art (no pun intended haha) to giving feedback. That’s a whole nother can of worms

Eightfish (Puppeteer)

but better to hear that and know it than not

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

It's not always a failure of storytelling skills, though. Some people's brains work along a certain line, and when a story is told that doesn't gel with that, it seems confusing to the person. That doesn't mean the writing was bad, it just means that the author communicates differently than the reader.(edited)

Deo101 [Millennium]

^ thats what I was gonna say

I have a small group of people who I trust who are editors, writers, or artists. I go to them to see if I'm doing the best I can for my goals.

if people get confused then there isnt too much more that I can do...

not saying my work is perfect, of course...

Eightfish (Puppeteer)

i can't just brush it off by saying I communicate differently than the reader when I'm trying to communicate to the reader

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

But not every reader is your audience, though

Nutty (Court of Roses)

^^^^

your message sometimes can't reach certain people, and that's not your fault

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

If all the readers are confused, that's one thing. If only a few are, well, your writing style just wasn't for them.

eli [a winged tale]

For sure. Agree Capn and Deo. There’s a lot of work that goes behind the scenes that readers are unaware

Eightfish (Puppeteer)

true true. But there are a few people who have said the same things, so I've taken those to heart and added dialogue that made it more clear. I don't regret that

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

Your comic is public, and it's going to be seen by a very wide variety of people with all different kinds of reading comprehension and tastes. You're never going to appeal to all of hem, and plenty won't understand what you're trying to do. But that doesn't mean what you're making is bad. It just means it, like every story, is for a particular audience.

Yeah, if it's a repeated crit, it is something to keep in mind, but just remember that incorporating a crit shouldn't change what you're trying to do, only refine it.

Deo101 [Millennium]

Ive had a couple people say "I'm confused but Im enjoying whats going on" and I dont even know what I would begin to do about that

eli [a winged tale]

I usually trust my beta readers for that. If there are confusing parts then I would ask them how to clarify that best

I think these creator based forums are best to seek feedback and see what could potentially be remedied

Eightfish (Puppeteer)

Of course. And I don't think my comic is bad. But one example was when I realized some confusion stemmed from me having a speech bubble that read, "without her," and didn't realize "her" could refer to two different characters which would make what was being said have two very different meanings. It's easy to overestimate how understandable your story is as an author that already knows everything that's going on. I think confusion is a good thing to pay attention to- I've definitely read comics before and dropped them because the author didn't pay enough attention to introducing things to the audience

(also dropped comics because they paid too much attention to introducig things but)

Deo101 [Millennium]

yes, like I said I have a small group of friends who are all writers, editors, and artists who can give me a pretty dang good beta read.

eli [a winged tale]

They are so great. Don’t know what I’d do without them

LadyLazuli (Phantomarine)

At that point I'd honestly keep going with what you have - there are several stories I've gone into with confusion, but also greatly enjoyed them, or even got less confused over time. Some readers need time to put the pieces together. So long as someone enjoys it on some level, I think that makes the comic successful. Maybe not completely - but not every comic will be everything to all people.

eli [a winged tale]

Indeed. Sometimes as well you gotta trust your story writing/art skills.

Deo101 [Millennium]

yup!

and like I'm not doing too bad for my first comic so I think I got something going for me at least.

I understand I have room to grow...

but I would like to keep that to people who I trust wont steer me wrong

eli [a winged tale]

Always room to grow for sure!

Deo101 [Millennium]

and arent just pushing what they want from me on me

eli [a winged tale]

Indeed. Feedback/ beta reading has its own set of skills. There’s always places to improve but the key is to determine specifically where that can be and how feasible(edited)

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

I remember the first time I read Unsounded, I had absolutely no idea what was going on because of how Ashley structures her world-building. But there were aspects of it that were very engaging, so I stuck with it. After finishing the archives, I went back and reread. Now that I understood what all the terms meant, it made perfect sense on the second go-round. It's now one of my favourite webcomics. Some stories are just told differently, and that's okay.(edited)

eli [a winged tale]

There’s certainly an element of trust you must put to the creators that it’ll all make sense at the end

Deo101 [Millennium]

someone got very mad at me for how I have shown my trans characters so far.. I had to explain that the story isnt done yet, and they have to trust I'll bring it up

it's a WIP and there is some trust that NEEDS to be had

Eightfish (Puppeteer)

lol I have only one artist/writer friend (struggles of working in a non-art career), and she understands everything I write exactly as I intended it and I love it. But she's my friend for a reason- we tend to think the same way and read similar things. Don't think it's wrong to try to cater to a wider audience as well

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

@Deo101 [Millennium] I wonder if anyone will react once I reveal that Anor is intersex/trans on panel. I'm really hoping I don't find out if any of my readers are transphobes -or- angry that he isn't ostentatiously trans.

Deo101 [Millennium]

someone was mad I didnt show my cyborg transitioning cause it could be so cool of a concept to see his original robot body and I was like literally none of what you said applies to him also thats kinda gross

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

Wut

Deo101 [Millennium]

YEAH

Eightfish (Puppeteer)

There might be some transphobes. But it's worth dealing with them for the people who your comic will resonate with more for having a trans character in it

Deo101 [Millennium]

alsooooo some people might be upset, but then they will leave and you will be left with better people.

Nutty (Court of Roses)

I feel like me having a non-binary character and insisting on correcting everyone who misgenders them deters transphobes away p quickly.

Eightfish (Puppeteer)

^^^ some people will dislike, but those who like will really like

and a smaller, better fanbase is better than a larger one that cares less(edited)

LadyLazuli (Phantomarine)

hear hear

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

@Eightfish (Puppeteer) I'm hoping some will resonate with him! I don't think I've ever seen any intersex rep in any story, so I really want people to know they can have a hero like them.(edited)

Eightfish (Puppeteer)

I'm trying to think of stories with intersex rep

I feel like there must be some, but I can't bring any up : /

Sazed from Mistborn is written as though he's intersex, but he clearly identifies as male and the story treating him as intersex actually feels a bit disrespectful

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

Me neither. The only thing I've seen in stories is gross 'hermaphrodite' jokes when mocking a cis character.

I really want to give positive representation.

Eightfish (Puppeteer)

webcomics have so much lgbt representation. I feel as though I must have seen an intersex character somewhere in there, but I'm not sure I have.(edited)

it feels kind of weird(edited)

I've seen characters that don't have genders because they're gods or whatnot but I feel like that's different

Deo101 [Millennium]

I mean, I have intersex characters I supposed but theyre alien genders so I also think that's different and wouldnt call them intersex

DanitheCarutor

I don't know the whole conversation, but @Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios), you'll be fine! Most transphobic people quietly leave, only the really sad, pitiful ones make a stink and their opinions are pretty laughable. If you get crap laugh in their faces like they're morons. I would also say my character Julian is intersex, but I'm not sure how much it counts since it was a recent decision I made (after doing a lot of research) due to readers headcanoning them as an intersex character.

I think I know of a couple other comics with intersex characters if you want to check out some, lemme go look through my lists.

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

@DanitheCarutor I'd love to see other comics with intersex representation! And I think Julian totally counts? I don't see a problem with reconsidering a character's sex, gender, or orientation as we become more aware of issues in the world, or even just more aware of our own characters. Webcomics are always a work-in-progress and things change as we go.

eli [a winged tale]

@DanitheCarutor I’d love to know them too!

keii4ii

Re: clarity and confusion, sometimes a small change in wording or such can improve the clarity greatly, and that's great! But I agree that reader confusion doesn't necessarily = failure in storytelling. I've published my comic first in Korean, and a much improved version in English. The cultural difference in the audience has shown to be a huge factor in terms of what's clear and what isn't, or how certain things come across. And that's just one factor.

DanitheCarutor

So I only know of one comic personally, Drop-Out! Sure the characters are anthros, and the bubbles can be hard to read, but it is one of my favorite comics! Of course it's kinda heavy so be aware of that. http://drop-out.thecomicseries.com/ Although I checked out the Webcomic Library tagpacker and found a few. (including Drop-Out) https://tagpacker.com/user/webcomic.library?t=Intersex LGBT Webcomics also has a few that aren't listed in the above list. https://tagpacker.com/user/lgbtwebcomics?t=intersex @Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios) Lol yeah, I guess so. My readers made me put a lot of thought into it, and after the research being intersex actually fits a lot better with Julian's type of gender dysphoria and confusion than when they were AAB male. It also make some small, more intimate parts of the story feel more natural? It's hard to explain, it just feels better.(edited)

keii4ii

Like, making my work as accessible as possible has never been a goal for me with this story. So to me, it's not a failure that a large number of people can't see parts of the story that aren't being spelled out. I can totally respect "I want my work to be more accessible, so if all these people are not Getting It, then I need to do a better job" as a valid stance. Just not one I'm taking. It's all about individual goals and priorities.

Cronaj (Whispers of the Past)

Oh boy, writing a fantasy story with a very developed culture is kinda scary, because NOBODY is going to pick up on cultural nuances except for me(edited)

Deo101 [Millennium]

I DO want my work to be more accessible/reach a wider audience, but that still doesnt mean it will be for everyone, too.(edited)

keii4ii

Not gonna lie, I get a little salty when I see someone claiming their story is "for everyone." I feel like such a claim is disrespectful to different cultures and tastes.

Eightfish (Puppeteer)

i just started drop out and damn, that's one hell of an opening

Deo101 [Millennium]

Yeah I genuinely don't think it's possible to make a story for everyone lol

like... idk literally just by making it "sci fi" that excludes many people who just don't like sci-fi

Eightfish (Puppeteer)

i've never seen anyone claiming their story is for everyone

Deo101 [Millennium]

I feel like just to get to your premise, not even your personal execution you're already super narrowing the people down who will be interested

which is fine!!! and is necessary to accept imo

keii4ii

@Eightfish (Puppeteer) I've seen it. Not often but I've definitely seen it.

I've even seen a creator accuse another person of being heartless because the person was not interested in their Very Emotional And Universally Heartfelt comic, so uhhh yeah

Deo101 [Millennium]

Ope

Cronaj (Whispers of the Past)

Well then

That just sounds like an illusioned creator

Deo101 [Millennium]

I kinda like to think of it like music

I dont like a lot of songs that other people love, it's not that they're bad songs just... not for me(edited)

keii4ii

Yeah! I also think the word "taste" is very fitting

Deo101 [Millennium]

yeah for sure

keii4ii

Some of us can eat ghost peppers like popcorns. Others would even avoid like... crackled black pepper

Deo101 [Millennium]

ahahhahaha

mac n cheese has a very wide audience, but some people aren't into it

DanitheCarutor

@Eightfish (Puppeteer) Lmao! Drop-Out is quite a unique piece of fiction. I have also seen creators who say their comic is for everyone, then get made when someone isn't interested.

Deo101 [Millennium]

I'm gonna start saying millennium is like mac n cheese now

keii4ii

@Deo101 [Millennium] That reminds me of "what drink would your comic be" !!

Deo101 [Millennium]

ahahahahah

someone: my comic is WATER EVERYONE NEEDS IT

keii4ii

I answered: "I want HoK to be liquid bacon fat, so that it'll stay in your heart forever."

Deo101 [Millennium]

ew LMAO

Eightfish (Puppeteer)

even if your comic is water, some people don't drink water

Deo101 [Millennium]

but cute? I gues????

DanitheCarutor

That sounds like a fun game, "If your comic were food what would it be?"

Mine would be sardine pizza, only weirdos like it.

Deo101 [Millennium]

next weeks creator babble question

LMSLDJGLASJGK

Eightfish (Puppeteer)

@DanitheCarutor its got such good art. The characters are so unique and expressive. Don't think I've seen anyone not use anti-aliasing on such detailed art before, but it works here

almost all webcomics are some weird food. We're niche just by nature

DanitheCarutor

It DOES have great art! And it gets better as you go too, by the time I reached the end then looked back on the first pages for nostalgia it was almost like night and day with the quality.

Eightfish (Puppeteer)

fuck, really? but it's so polished already

DanitheCarutor

I mean, I guess that's not something to get excited about, most webcomics get better artwise as they go. Lmao! But still!

Eightfish (Puppeteer)

i love how the about page makes this sound like a fun roadtrip adventure

Deo101 [Millennium]

this feels mayble like the wrong chat for this discussion?

Cronaj (Whispers of the Past)

My comic would be a latte: A lot of people like it, but some people will never like coffee.

keii4ii

I can imagine HoK being like Chung Gook Jang soup? It's 1) Korean, 2) it warms you up, 3) it is very polarizing even among Koreans. It's kinda like... imagine miso soup on ultra mega steroid. Like a vegan version of supersharp stinky cheese. And 4) I love it.

Eightfish (Puppeteer)

im alphabet soup because i have a fuckton of dialogue

Deo101 [Millennium]

I'm actually gonna stick with mac n cheese. a bit childish, but it's nice! you can do some fun things with it to shake things up, but it's still cheese and noodles.

keii4ii

Mac n cheese is amazing.

Deo101 [Millennium]

I love mac n cheese.

another reason why it's my comic! I love it, and it's something I can actually make

Cronaj (Whispers of the Past)

As for food, WotP would definitely something like authentic Mexican tacos. Again, generally well-received, but can be a bit intense for a lot of people

keii4ii

I really like food analogies. Sometimes it's not Gordon Ramsey you're trying to impress. Sometimes you want to make something you and/or your loved ones will enjoy, and if that's "WAY too much [ingredient]!!!!" for everyone else out there, that's not a flaw!

Deo101 [Millennium]

yeah! :D

keii4ii

That's actually good food for thought (no pun intended): what niche aspects does your comic contain? How/why are they niche?

sssfrs (JOE IS DEAD)

@Eightfish (Puppeteer) How do you do it?

LadyLazuli (Phantomarine)

I think I once described mine as a corrupted tropical cocktail. On the surface: sweet, pretty, very colorful - but all the ingredients used to make it are rotten

sssfrs (JOE IS DEAD)

I thought of Cricket as intersex for a long time and I still don't know exactly where I stand on that.

Eightfish (Puppeteer)

I draw a diagram of where characters/ furniture are from above. Niche things: Most conflicts are resolved through anticlimactic conversation. Also there's this huge bit about consensual mind control. I wrote the comic I'd want to read, and somehow found a few people like me to follow along

I also usually don't have more than 2 characters interacting

so it's easier for me

sssfrs (JOE IS DEAD)

I have so many busy group scenes with people moving around. The most recent chapter was kind of a mess also because I wasn't really sure about the dimensions of the space they were all in

This scene was also pretty rushed in general

Re: intersex characters I feel like I've been shying away from that because I don't feel like I know enough about the topic to adequately represent intersex people

Joe Is Dead has a really specific aesthetic to it but I don't know how to define that niche. It's definitely something

Deo101 [Millennium]

I honestly could not answer that question about what niche things my comic contains. I don't know what about my comic is mainstream or not, I'm just making what I want to see and not really worrying about stuff like that.

keii4ii

For me, having an idea of what's niche about my comic actually lessens my worries!

It's a "okay, so I know these things are niche, which means people not liking or even getting those things =/= my failure!" kinda thing for me!

But I can also see how not thinking about what's niche or not can lessen the worries for others, too.

Deo101 [Millennium]

mhm, for me it means I can just go "well I like it anyways sooooooooo"

keii4ii

Yeah, that's the destination! We're just taking different routes to get there

Deo101 [Millennium]

I also genuinely just have a hard time determining whether or not something is niche

even if I thought about it for a while (I've been thinking about it since you asked, and I have thought about it before" I genuinely couldnt pinpoint it for you...

keii4ii

I used to beat myself up very badly every time someone didn't like a thing about my comic

Deo101 [Millennium]

keii4ii

and "oh, 1) this is subjective, 2) I like it like this, and 3) my liking of it is valid" was how I crawled out of that hole

Cronaj (Whispers of the Past)

I don't know if my comic is specifically niche, unless you count "low fantasy" (or essentially fantasy with less magic and such) as niche

sssfrs (JOE IS DEAD)

My comic has a lot of specific nautical and history content that you could call niche

Also surrealism

Eightfish (Puppeteer)

i would call Joe Is Dead "niche," but not WoTP

I've read both

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

I... used to think my comics weren't niche. Ohohohohoho how wrong I was!

Deo101 [Millennium]

Id say millennium isnt niche then it's basically just gay sci fi it's p straightforward

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

My comics are very, incredibly, undeniably niche.

DanitheCarutor

@sssfrs (JOE IS DEAD) It is difficult to understand if you're not intersex yourself, even though I studied a lot before making the decision about my character I still don't know if I'll represent the topic properly. The best you can really do is get into researching all the medical stuff, talk to people willing to share their experiences with being intersex, and watch videos of people talking about it from a professional and personal perspective. The hardest thing to get right about something so subjective and personal is that everyone's experiences are different, so no matter how much you research you just gotta do your best with the info you have, then figure out how your character would experience it personally.(edited)

Cronaj (Whispers of the Past)

I don't think anything magical happens until Chapter 11 of WotP, now that I think about it

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

Also @DanitheCarutor thank you for the links!! I'll have to give those comics a look!

sssfrs (JOE IS DEAD)

I’m still backreading and I just saw the food question, that is great

JID would be saltcod

Cronaj (Whispers of the Past)

Ooooh

sssfrs (JOE IS DEAD)

Or like pickled herring maybe

Cronaj (Whispers of the Past)

Bacalao

Noice

(Bacalao = Puerto Rican salted cod)

sssfrs (JOE IS DEAD)

They have it in spain too iirc

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

Ashes would be very bitter black coffee someone forgot to drink and it's just been sitting there for two days. Eryl would be well-aged wine spiked with tabasco sauce.

DanitheCarutor

Sorry for derailing. Anyways, I feel like my entire comic is just a ball of niche? The subject matters are uncommon and the main characters are awful and unreliable, but that's my aesthetic so I'm sticking to it. I've never particularly cared about people liking my comic due growing up not being liked myself (you kinda get over it after a while), but I do like finding people like me. @Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios) No problem! I hoard stuff like that, so I probably have a link for everything.

Urm, I don't mean I like finding unlikable people like me, I mean people who like the same types of stories as me.

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

Honestly, Dani, I connect to your comic quite a lot, for what it's worth!

DanitheCarutor

Thank you! ;v; In a way it's kind of nice having a comic that doesn't fit in. It tends to stand out, especially with my choice of medium. Although at the same times it's really hard to get feedback that applies to what you're doing! Arg!

keii4ii

It is such a Struggle, for sure -- getting relevant feedback

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

I feel you! I'm in the same boat with Ashes. It's also incredibly niche and there just aren't that many pencil comics out there- coloured or graphite.

DanitheCarutor

Being a creator who likes feedback, but also likes making niche content, is so hard! Why can't everyone like niche content??

Lmao!

sssfrs (JOE IS DEAD)

As niche as the setting and tone of Joe Is Dead are, the main story arc is a very generic hero adventure thing that I hope will appeal to wide audiences

eli [a winged tale]

Niche content

I’d love to know more! What niches are you exploring?

snuffysam (Super Galaxy Knights)

The nicest thing anyone's said about Super Galaxy Knights Deluxe R http://sgkdr.thecomicseries.com/comics/ is that they really became invested in the characters. Like, that's the kind of story I want to make - the kind where the characters really stick with you.

snuffysam (Super Galaxy Knights)

As for what food my comic would be... I'd say squid ink pasta. It's the kind of food that makes you go "what the heck is going on here" if you're new to it, but once you actually eat it you'll (hopefully) go "oh, that made way more sense than i expected and was actually pretty tasty"

sssfrs (JOE IS DEAD)

I don't know if you're talking to me directly but I'm using a lot of maritime history and literature stuff that I've been obsessed with for a long time as the setting of the story, and then the whole thing has a really morbid and nihilistic tone, while also somehow being funny because I have a background in comedy/satire writing

And then heavy biblical themes

It's essentially a Renaissance period retelling of the Joseph story from the bible

With pirates instead of shepherds

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

For me, I’m not even sure what niche Ashes belongs to. (https://www.flowerlarkstudios.com/cos/) It’s dark, it’s weird, it has a twisty plot that slowly trickles information, and it’s an odd mash-up of genres. I often try to describe it as Miss Peregrine’s Peculiar Children meets Farthing Wood. It’s mostly urban fantasy with some horror elements and talking animals. Basically it’s about a bunch of unaging teenagers with supernatural, angel-gifted powers and a bunch of woodland critters fighting (although so far it’s more running from) eldritch monsters. But it’s main focus is on each character battling either mental illness or some other kind of inner demon.

keii4ii

There's also the aspect of: what's niche in one culture may not be niche in another. In Korean media, Fantastical Old Korea is a very common setting for all sorts of genres: gag a day, romance, all-ages adventure, gritty crime drama, zombie apocalypse, you name it. If the work spends a lot of visuals showing mundane everyday moments, often that's a shorthand for "sit down and stay a while; this is a heartfelt tale that takes its time." My comic uses such a setting. When I began to publish it in English, I was surprised that people were expecting it to be one of these AND NOTHING ELSE: a) exciting magical action adventure b) mythology-driven, all about gods and spirits My comic is neither of those. It definitely contains elements of adventure, but that's the plate the meat is served on, not the meat itself. So I guess the usage of the setting is niche.

Like, imagine a civilian life drama set in WWII time. The civilian MC may have a family member or a close friend in the military, but the story focuses on the MC's experience. Imagine presenting that story and people expect it to be... military action? Not a perfect analogy, but hopefully a good enough one.

Kelsey (Kurio)

To be fair, Korea would find fantastical old Korea less exotic than those outside of Korea heh

keii4ii

That is definitely a factor. Even today, you can find semi-Old Days-like places IRL within like... 3 hours of drive.

I'm weirded out that my culture is considered exotic, but it is what it is

(To clarify, weirded out =/= offended.)

Kelsey (Kurio)

Well any culture can be exotic to people outside of that culture

As an outsider looking in, it can be fascinating to learn about a culture I don't know much about

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

Anything unfamiliar is usually considered exotic. I know in both England and America, I never really learned anything about any Asian country growing up. I had to seek out the info myself, and as it was very unfamiliar to me, it seemed exotic!

Kelsey (Kurio)

Especially their myths and stories

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

Oops, exactly what Kelsey said, I typed too slow.

keii4ii

Yeah, the thing is I've been told I should not be using this setting to tell this story because it's a doomed combination. But ehh, I decided not to listen to that. This story with this setting and all of its elements is what I wanted to read.

carcarchu

slice of life set in a historical setting sounds really refreshing actually(edited)

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

But I know I’d probably feel strange if someone told me New York was exotic!

carcarchu

sometimes historical settings can get really bogged down by politics and whatever other drama, having a quiet slow paced story set in the same kind of world is something i'd be interested in reading

Kelsey (Kurio)

Nothing wrong with trying the approach you want to

Who knows, you might end up with a unique combo that helps your work stand out

Cap’n Lee (Flowerlark Studios)

Yup. I’m a firm believer in writing the kind of story you’d want to read. No matter how niche.

Tuyetnhi

Totes agreed on this. For me, when I had to drop my dark drama series for my romance story, folks were like "Dang, I thought you like writing dark things!"

I do, but romance comics.... [clenches chest]. I also want to write a story that I want to read so lmao. Dream lover elements along with some dark horror influences is something I want to try doing lol

carcarchu

this is not a webcomic but try reading coelacanth if you're interested in the combination of horror with romance @Tuyetnhi

Tuyetnhi

ooo I'll keep that in mind

carcarchu

it's really so unique i love coelacanth so much

Tuyetnhi

is it a novel? :0

carcarchu

it's a manga

Tuyetnhi

aaa

Yeah I probably check it out sometime lmao

back on the idea tho, I also wanted to add some Vietnamese influences in the mix since there's not a lot of stories about Vietnamese disapora, so that's included in the cauldron lol

Eightfish (Puppeteer)

@keii4ii what's your comic? I wanna check it out(edited)

keii4ii

@Eightfish (Puppeteer) It's https://heartofkeol.com/

(I get extremely nervous whenever I know someone is checking out my comic for the first time )

DanitheCarutor

To answer @eli [a winged tale] question. I'm delving into stuff like mental illnesses and disorders, medical illnesses, abuse, trauma and later on, self-care. The comic itself is slow and character centric, I guess you can say it's like a character study. The story can be really depressing depending on who is reading, and it has some softcore horror bits sprinkled in. I'm kind of a nerd for mental health, sad stuff and everything medical so I figured I may as well make a story embellishing those interests. In short it's a sad, character driven, psychological drama about two extremely flawed individuals. Not particularly exciting compared to all the other webcomics out there, but somebody has to make that one pretentious, psychological slice of life piece.

keii4ii

What compounds my issues is that my comic does have enough adventure elements for someone to mistake it for an underwhelming adventure story. "This is an adventure story but there's not enough adventure in it?" kinda thing.

@DanitheCarutor Character studies FTW!!! Yours has been on my 'gotta check this out' list for a long time now!

Tuyetnhi

Oooo

Cronaj (Whispers of the Past)

I also am a fan of psychological stories

Especially if they're sad(edited)

Tuyetnhi

Kei idk why but I was reminded of .hack SIGN when u said that

"there's so much talking! where's the action?!?"

keii4ii

@Tuyetnhi That's actually not a terrible comparison -- though .hack//SIGN has other issues that my comic hopefully doesn't have XD

Tuyetnhi

I'm pretty sure it's miles better than that old anime lmao

DanitheCarutor

@keii4ii Pff I need to check out your comic too! I remember reading it at one point, but I don't remember what happened to make me lose track. From what little I remember I really liked it.

keii4ii

The thing with .hack//SIGN was it had a lot of promises of mystery that never went anywhere, within SIGN. I've heard those mysteries do go somewhere within the franchise, but you had to watch/read the entire franchise, which I wasn't going to do. I hope my comic will be a good read on its own, when finished.

Tuyetnhi

sadly, I was one of those suckers that went to consume the .hack games and mangas to get some context from SIGN in the late 2000's lmao

I hope the same as mine, despite being mostly saccharine and self-indulgent nature lmao

keii4ii

Self-indulgence is a strength of indie comics.

eli [a winged tale]

I love all the themes y’all explore! They’re so important

Tuyetnhi

I feel like I have a reason for everything when working on that comic but if that's what it boils down to, I'll take it lol

keii4ii

TBH I produce my best writing and art when I focus on pleasing myself.

Because if I'm trying to please others, I don't even know what they want, so I waste my energy panicking.

But when I'm creating for my inner reader, I can be self-critical in a productive manner!

Tuyetnhi

so true ya

RebelVampire

Hey guys. I kind of feel as this has deviated a smidgen too far from the topic, so maybe reel it in just a smidgen. XD(edited)

Desnik

so the nicest thing anyone's ever said about my comic is that they wanna read more :3

I kinda dread reader dropoffs so the will to see the whole story through fills me with joy

#ctparchive #comics #webcomics #indie comics #comic chat #comic discussion #comic tea party #ctp #creator interview #comic creator interview #creator babble

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candescentcalum · 7 years

Text

I Can’t Remember (Part 4)

Hey y'all! Sorry for taking so long to get this 4th and final part posted, I got a little busy the last couple days and couldn’t but its finally up! I want to say thank you to y'all for supporting my writing! This is one of my favorite thing I’ve written so far!

Y'all can read Part 1 here Part 2 here and Part 3 here

P.S. this last part is kind corny, like an ABC Family movie kinda corny lmao but I think it wraps up the story nicely.

Also I was kinda thinking about writing a prologue to this whole thing like on what happened the night of the party. Like you guys get the just of what happened based on what I told you in the story but I could write out exactly what did if y'all are interested in that?? Lemme know! Thanks again for the love!

Words: 1,546

Warnings: just language as usual!

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

“Alright, listen up!” you heard Ashton shout as you and Calum slipped into the Theta Chi house. Both Alpha Phi and Theta Chi were packed into the main entryway, making it a tight squeeze.

“We have some official business to discuss.” Ashton said to the crowd.

“Then why are they here?” Luke called out from the middle of the room.

“Because this business involves us too.” Tatum replied as she stepped out of the crowd to stand next to Ashton. You and Calum looked at each other with worried glances. You hoped this wasn’t about the two of you.

“Two of our own have gone rogue.” Ashton said as he pointed to you and Calum directly, moving his finger in a come here motion. You both pushed your way to the front of the crowd and noticed the dirty looks people were giving you. This was definitely about last night.

“A bit dramatic don’t you think Ash.” Calum muttered to Ashton, who just ignored him.

“We all know you two possibly slept together last night.�� Ashton explained to you as the crowd of Theta’s booed. You scoffed and rolled your eyes.

“Tatum, are you really okay with this metaphoric public beheading here?” you pleaded with your best friend.

“I am.” Tatum said confidently.

“When Ashton messaged me on Facebook asking me if I knew anything about this it made me realize that this thing you two have going on is wrong. Our two presidents shouldn’t be running around with each other behind everyones backs.” the crowd cheered in agreement.

“Will you guys knock it off. What is this? An episode of Maury?” Calum called out to his peers.

“But I am still your best friend and I still love you.” Tatum said to you privately.

“I just hate the Theta’s a little more than I love you.” Tatum said honestly. You couldn’t blame her though. Before today, you were the same exact way.

“Also I’m making spaghetti for dinner if thats okay with you. I also wanted to do garlic bread but I didn’t know if that would be too much since it’s-”

“Tatum, not now.” you sighed.

“Sorry.” she whispered as she gestured for Ashton to continue on.

“Our two respective presidents have-”

“Okay but listen,” Calum interrupted.

“We didn’t actually sleep together. So mystery is solved, problem is now resolved, lets all get back to our normally scheduled activities.” Calum finished as he waved people away. No one moved.

“Not that simple buddy.” Ashton retorted as he clapped a hand on Calum’s shoulder.

“Maybe you guys didn’t do the dirty, but fact of the matter is, you two were hanging out all last night and all today.” Ashton reminded you.

“But is it really that bad if we hang out together?” You asked Ashton, an audible gasp coming from the crowd of greek members.

“You of all people should know how big of a deal this rivalry is Y/N.” Vanessa called.

“Yeah, if I would’ve known that Calum was your booty call I never would’ve supported it.” Mallory chimed in, the rest of your sorority sisters nodding in agreement.

“Booty call?” Calum asked in confusion. You waved him off.

“What’s so bad about hanging out with an Alpha for a little while? Huh boys?” Calum asked his brothers.

“We’re rivals.” Michael called out.

“We may be in a frat but that doesn’t mean we fraternize with the enemy Calum.” he finished. Looks of confusion were written across multiple peoples faces.

“Michael, that literally doesn’t even make sense.” Calum remarked, earning a few chuckles from his friends.

“It’s just a dumb rivalry.” you thought out loud, the entire room becoming eerily quiet.

“Just a dumb rivalry?” Tatum asks you.

“Says the girl who used to do anything to threaten the Theta’s way of life. This coming from the girl who snuck around the back of the Theta house and shut off their power so everyone would have to come to our party instead.”

“That was you?” Calum asked surprised.

“Well yeah, but-”

“The girl who once walked a mile in heels just because she wanted to get to the store first to buy the last keg just so the Theta’s couldn’t have it. The girl who-”

“Okay Tatum thats enough.” you said sternly.

“That was the old me.” you began.

“Look at us right now. You all say we’re all so different and we’re all such bitter enemies, but you all literally came together as one to rip apart Calum and I. Sure, it wasn’t for the greatest cause but you guys did it.” a few people nodded.

“And Michael,” Calum said as he stepped forward.

“I vividly remember you and Vanessa partnering on a bio project last semester. She would come round the house all the time and you got along perfectly well, you really hit it off.”

“But that was for school stuff not greek stuff.” Michael scoffed.

“Should it really matter?” Calum questioned.

“And Tatum,” you said as you turned around to face your best friend.

“You and Luke are both on the cheerleading team. I remember at a competition last year you flew with him as your one and only base. That takes a lot of trust and understanding to do that. Not something two ‘rivals’ could do.” you pointed out.

“She is right.” Tatum agreed.

“And I did actually have a great time stunting with you Luke.” she called out to him, Luke nodding in agreement.

“See? When we come together and see each other as people instead of enemies we can accomplish great things.” Calum stated.

“I know it’s tradition, but lets put this dumb rivalry behind us and and make new traditions together.” you said to your sorority sisters, all of them nodding in agreement.

“What do you say boys?” Calum asked his brothers as he slung an arm around your shoulder, grinning down at you. It took a few minutes, but all of Theta Chi finally agreed to end the rivalry as well, Ashton being the last to give in.

“I never thought I’d see the day when Alpha Phi and Theta Chi didn’t hate each other.” you said to Calum as the other members began to file out of the frat house, some of them already starting to mingle.

“It’s a pretty remarkable thing we did today.” Calum marveled.

“I say we throw an even more remarkable party to honor this remarkable day.” you smirked.

THAT WEEKEND

“I have to say, you did a great job putting together this party!” Calum shouted to you above the music. You were both currently swaying with each other on the makeshift dance floor in the Alpha Phi house.

“I know I did!” you said triumphantly, Calum grinning so wide his eyes were starting to crinkle in the corners.

Everyone was enjoying themselves. Both Alpha’s and Theta’s were interacting with each other and dancing with each other like the rivalry never existed in the first place. It took a little bit for everyone to get used to not having to hate one another, but they really started to get along well when given the opportunity to. Michael and Vanessa were grinding with each other on the dance floor, while Luke and Tatum were in the kitchen excitedly talking about what they were going to do at cheer practice the following week. Ashton had even embraced the newfound treaty between the houses and was making out with Mallory, who he’s always found to be attractive, in the corner of the room.

“Can we go somewhere quieter to talk?” Calum shouted. You nodded yes and led him outside to the front lawn where you both took a seat on the street curb.

“I’m glad we don’t have to hate each other anymore.” Calum laughed.

“Me too.” you said as Calum carefully grabbed your hand in his and laced your fingers together.

“I don’t think I ever really hated you that much, I just thought I had to.” you explained.

“I actually really liked you when we first met our freshman year.” you confessed.

“I really liked you too. Still do.” Calum added, making you smile. You looked up at him and noticed how cute he looked when his hair was a mess and saw how his brown eyes glistened in the moonlight and just got the overwhelming urge to kiss him.

“At least now we can do this without getting ripped to shreds by our friends.” Calum whispered as he leaned in closer, alternating between looking into your eyes and looking at your lips. It felt like years before his lips were finally on yours, igniting fireworks in your head and taking your breath away. You never knew a kiss with someone could be so good, and damn was it good. Calum pulled away when you both heard cheers coming from the front door. You looked back and saw all of your friends standing there cheering you on. You and Calum both laughed, being insanely happy in that moment.

“How about we go back in there and have another night that we won’t remember in the morning?” Calum asked you as he stood up, pulling you right with him since your hands were still connected.

“I would love nothing more than that.”

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