#how did it make it into mainstream tiktok i cannot fathom this

[slashpaws]

earlier bonnie my good friend bonnie told me that scraptrap's "i always come back" voiceline is a popular sound on tiktok (paired with a song) and i was like "no fucking way" but no. she was right. and this information has been ruining my life ever since.

[emblazons]

hi again! i'm back with more thoughts as promised (nearly a month late but oh well)

just wanna start off by saying that i really appreciate your comprehensive response, as well as the other posts that you linked!! i feel like the point that i keep coming back to, the one that really hit the nail on the head and explained the crux of the issue is this-

it feels like every argument “for” Mike and El staying together is made by people so used to celebrating mediocre writing that they’re at a loss to process what’s happening when writing its done well and with intention

-this part in particular is why we're hit with the 'delusional' accusations so often. stranger things is a mainstream show, and mainstream shows are usually not made with the level of care and concern put into ST, especially when it comes to queer characters and storylines. like i said before, people are used to being spoonfed with in-your-face queer media and when it doesn't happen i see it being chalked up to simple 'bad writing' - or in the case of will's s4 storyline - a supposed complete lack of respect for these characters.

i have seen so many people express disappointment that will did not get a coming out scene in season 4, and didn't actually use the word gay, so much so that noah schnapp himself felt the need to comment on somebody's tiktok about how will was still so young and would get to have his moment once he was ready (which, not to get parasocial or make assumptions, but that must have been so frustrating for him to hear repeatedly while being in the closet himself). these mainstream fans are jumping to conclusions and assuming that will not coming out in season four means that the duffers are homophobes and don't have any respect for queer people.

never mind that they've had this in their pitch before this show was even made. never mind that they've been intentionally pulling out this storyline since season one and that "it's been their vision for a long time." never mind that they've said over and over that will is going to be a central point of season five and that his sexuality arc will continue into the final season. because he couldn't come out in s4, the duffers must be homophobes, right?

and this also goes hand in hand with the whole painting situation. people who believe that ST is just another mainstream show genuinely and honestly think that it will never be brought up again, despite the main catchphrase of the show being 'friends don't lie.' they really think that the painting has served its purpose, and that the duffers aren't "smart" enough to bring will's elaborate lie up again. they think that we've left the storyline there, with will giving up his sad unrequited feelings for mlvn's sake and that nothing could ever come from this. lots of people, even those rooting for byler, have been burned over and over again by bad writing and are pessimistic to the point where they don't want to believe that anything good could ever happen for fear of being hurt again.

but that is just the folks who do want byler to happen - when it comes to byler antis, even the reddit bros who recognize that ST has more effort put into it than most shows still use this excuse of 'it's a mainstream show, they're never going to do that' as a reason to why byler is impossible because they're just so used to mainstream media catering to the mostly cishet audience since that's the way it's always happened. they cannot fathom the idea that this show is different and isn't for them, despite all of the evidence screaming otherwise.

and their refusal to “sink to their audience level” in that way means people who are just heteronormative and might not mean any real harm by it are intentionally left in the cold. not just because it means people miss fairly straightforward subtext, but because they haven’t even been taught that subtlety is a thing you can do

this is 100% true as well. i think in most GA cases, the lack of belief in byler endgame isn't even malicious, it's just that like you said, they were never taught to look deeper and analyze media critically (that, or they were watching ST while also being on their phone half the time and thus missing all the subtext). these are the kind of people who wouldn't be mad about byler happening, but would probably be left a little confused because the heteronormative goggles are so thick that they'd never even considered byler as a possibility. but hey, the upside of this is that s5 will inevitably boost the rewatchability of the show so that people can go back and find the clues they previously missed and marvel at the fact that their favorite piece of mainstream media gave them a narrative that was this clever.

also, i think i've mentioned this before, but it's interesting to note that my ten-year-old sister was able to pick up on byler endgame immediately. when we watched vol 2 together in august, she took one look at the final shot and said to me, "so, will and mike are getting together next season, right?" and as she's someone who hates mike, she complained to me for a good hour or so about having to watch will end up with him next season. she's not in the fandom and was obviously not someone who was looking for clues about byler endgame - in fact she's someone who strongly disliked the idea of them together - and yet she was still able to see it. to her, it was obvious, and i think it's because she's so young that she hasn't had time to be burdened by heteronormative society yet. for her generation, mike choosing between el and will is no different from nancy choosing between steve and jonathan, and so she's free from the blinders that most of the audience is still shackled with and is able to pick up on the subtextual clues far more easily.

(oh, and she's come around about byler since then because apparently mike is "more tolerable" to her when he's around will.)

anyway, i hope this jumble of thoughts made some semblance of sense to you. i, for one, am very much looking forward to the "curtain is blue" + the heteronormative crowd to be blown away next season and for ST to set a precedent of higher quality show-not-tell stories, both in terms of queer media and just general storytelling, that will be followed up on for years and years to come ✌🏼

(no pressure about responding to this ask btw!! i know it was really long and you probably have a lot of other asks and posts to get to before then ahah)

this is a 12/10 response—I don't even want to give any notes lmao

I think it really is that special mix of heteronormativity / homophobia combined with media illiteracy and just...a lot of bad TV that makes it hard for a lot of people to fathom that Stranger Things is going to do something several shows have failed at historically: namely, writing not one, but two different queer individuals with 5 seasons of independent purpose and depth before getting them together, and with the same respect for their romance as a slow-burn straight story (while showing, not telling). I do see us slowly getting better told stories that honor queer people in movies, but...shows have been a lot slower, particularly mainstream ones / ones that don't specifically cater to queer audiences, especially in the US.

Since your first ask we've gotten The Last of Us Episode 3 reminding us that yeah, people can write deeply satisfying queer stories into shows that aren't necessarily queer—and without officially labeling the character's sexuality before they get together—but the radical fact that people have grown with Mike and Will for nearly a decade only to watch them fall in love (in a way true to their individual arcs) will be revolutionary in a lot of ways.

The binge model Netflix has worked with since ST dropped has made people less aware of the fact that its a better written show than most of the ones they've watched, you're right—and people the world over who only watched it casually will flock to watch it (or watch it over) once they realize what The Duffers have done. I will respect Matt & Ross forever for committing to setting a better precedent for queer stories in mainstream media, once this story is done lmao.

Thanks for the ask! And feel free to send more! :)