#i also think that most artists who don't label their sexuality who are accused of queerbaiting are ones who foster fandoms of wlw

[overthemoonwithme]

it's still wild to me that Jameela was essentially forced to perform a "coming out" ritual for gay men to accept her as a judge in Legendary because didn't all of us who follow her from the Good Place know that she was bi for years at that point? And many of them still argue that she was "gay for a day" and whatnot. It's giving heteronormativity, comphet and misogyny disguised as "queerbaiting"

[samaelwinchester]

what is proshipping? proshippers? saw your reblog and I'm confused

the way it's evolved into a stupid ass dichotomy pisses me off so i actually hate the term proshipper but i'll explain it for you (tldr at the end in case you didnt want a whole speech). and i'll stick it under a read more in case the rest of yall know the drill:

so a "proshipper" is someone who either supports, consumes or creates problematic ship content, like fics or art that contains romanticized rape, incest, abuse and/or pedophilia. they often also use the term "dead dove" after the arrested development joke that basically means "there's romanticization of really fucked up subject matter in here but it's okay because i labeled it so you can't be mad at me!" instead of understanding that the majority of people on this earth are disturbed by such content, they make it their entire online identity and act like an oppressed group because they like reading about pedophilia and rape fics. they call themselves proshippers so it sounds like a noble cause of general artistic freedom when all it means is they like gross shit for the sake of it being gross.

in direct opposition to proshippers are "antis", who you'll hear proshippers bitch about like their lives depend on it. they also call them "fancops", as if strangers on the internet judging your weird paraphilias is even slightly comparable to the heinous shit police do every day. they like to paint antis as ill-informed, entitled and puritanical teenagers who will dox your whole family and ruin your life if you like a ship with a 1 year age gap.

now, do some of them go too far? absolutely. i don't consider myself an "anti". i don't doxx or threaten people that i find gross. i personally believe dark and upsetting topics such as rape, pedophilia, racism, etc. can have their place in a piece of media when it's done with care and nuance and not as a backdrop for your fetish material. i don't want everything i read or watch to be sunshine and rainbows either, but i think using these things to get your rocks off is fucking weird. "but it's fictional! the child being sexually assaulted isn't real!" you are, though. and you're getting off to the fantasy of a child being abused. people are gonna find that weird. if someone's a proshipper, i block and move on with my day. not interested in affiliating or even engaging with people like that.

what pisses me off the most is how many times lgbt+ proshippers try to pass off the shit they do as queer culture. they accuse antis of being homophobic, conservative puritans who are censoring queer media whenever they take issue with them. but nothing, in my opinion, cries "homophobic conservative puritan" more than insinuating a connection between queer culture and things like rape and pedophilia.

TLDR: proshippers like to read fics about romanticized rape and pedophilia and other morally reprehensible topics. antis oppose them. not everybody fits into either side, so making it a "them vs. us" issue was the worst possible outcome. thank voltron legendary defender, whose horrible, brain-rotted fanbase almost gives supernatural a run for their money.

[stuckinapatriarchalbullshitland]

Enzo anon here - the more this era is progressing, my theory about gaymila being used as damage control and for profit seems to be happenening.

I have some thoughts that I know many other CS share, i think it would be good to summarise what i’ve seen on different blogs into one post as well as adding my own theory. So this will be a long one but i hope you guys find it insightful and Stuck thank you again for giving me a space on your blog!

Let’s look back on CC2 and the aftermath of its release. A quick disclaimer : I’ll only be addressing her situation in terms of the social/PR aspect as we have no idea what other factors might be at play such as contracts and money etc.

It’s fair to say that C was and is not in a good place reputation wise. Señorita was of course a smash hit but was mostly used to promote S. Her fans complained about C almost becoming a double act with S. These fans understandably signed up for C, not S and so subsequently most of them unfollowed her on SM and stopped paying attention to her to escape the constant Showmila. For the GP, Showmila became a mockery and so it’s asking a lot from her fans to stay when she was constantly embarrassing herself to the point that it made it uncomfortable for them. Of course with this comes the racist controversies also involving Normani which brought back the entire 5H feud. This put C even further than she already was against LAND and so the narrative that she was hated by the other girls for being obnoxious and attention seeking was further reinforced by her being racist towards N. All of this made/makes Camila extremely easy to hate, to the public she seems like a privileged straight girl who has never once had any sort of difficulty or obstacle in her life.

On the CS side of the fandom, many having left after having enough of the Showmila circus, leaves very few CS to fight back against the narrative. Even more leave after Lauren’s bombshell of a podcast. For example, this graph from google trends show how searches for “camren” or “camila cabello camren” are/were decreasing.

We know that CS are a very large part of C’s fanbase so who are we left with ? Many solo C stans all have converted into SS accounts and again even then S takes the main focus, not C. So… its not looking good, having people being fans of yours only for your relationship is a risky move business wise. We’ve all wanted Showmila to end for a long while and we definitely can all agree that the end is long overdue, infact a lot of us believe that had there not been the pandemic they would’ve broken up a while ago. So where does C stand now? Well, in my opinion, after this entire circus (which unfortunately is still ongoing) C is in a very vulnerable position. How does she promote her upcoming album with so much of her fanbase gone? Perhaps a big break up album? That option doesn’t sound great when she most likely will get the short end of the stick narrative wise and be further disliked by the little fans she does has left. If Camila doesn’t have Shawn anymore, the SS will most likely all disappear leaving her with a very limited amount of people who have the guts to actually publicly support her. Another option she could have is to keep riding on this relationship until people get bored, only that’s already happening and Showmila does not have the punch it once did to get a second Señorita. What about a fake pregnancy or a marriage? God we hope not and I really believe that Camila would do anything in her power to avoid that as we’ve seen how extremely unhappy she seems just being his girlfriend. For all we know Shawn might be very against this idea too and even if they did go along with it would it really be enough to promote CC3 ? After a few weeks the excitement would have died down again and leave them both back to square one. Not to mention that C getting married/pregnant would make even some of her most dedicated fans leave for good and would still not be enough to get her out of the racist accusations.

This is where my theory comes into play, however i think her team will only follow through with this if they are smart and if they aren’t actually sabotaging her. This past year I watched as Taylor Swift released her two albums and broke numerous records and achieved incredible success. I do not think this success would’ve been achieved had it not been for the insane rise in speculation over her sexuality due to her new songs. T is of course a household name, she’s earned her place amongst the top artists of this generation but people were starting to get bored hearing dramatic songs about her oh so difficult love life being a straight white girl. This is why when folklore and evermore came out there was so much buzz and excitement about T possibly being LGBTQ to the point that it found it’s way to the GP. People were wondering what these gay songs with gay lyrics were and so they went to listen for themselves. Eventually tons and tons of extra streams and talk generated from people who would’ve otherwise never paid attention. Myself included. You can see below on google trends the massive increase in online searches for “gaylor swift”. The gaylor side of tumblr also expanded as there had never been so many songs with so much queer interpretations to analyse and discuss and more and more of the GP were getting curious enough to read the blogs. Regardless if you think Taylor is gay or not, the general public discussing it was an essential part in improving her image for Gen Z and promoting her albums thus creating $$$ for her team and label.

Keeping this in mind, I believe that C might (not having many options left to salvage her career/reputation) take a page out of TS’s book and have an era that will attract more LGBT fans than ever before. We’ve seen how camren is slowly coming back. Even just by C liking a picture of L’s it was enough to bring back out a whole lot of fans who had abandoned her. Her team see this, they know this, they are aware. If talks of Camila being gay will generate more $$$ they will use that to their advantage and push out the new gay narrative as much as they can. I don’t think she will explicitly come out any time soon, and i don’t think that they will “confirm camren” but this era will definitely set her up for it in the future like the way it has for TS and it will give her a stable fanbase for a long while, which at the moment she is in dire need of.

Although C would’ve probably liked her relationship with L to remain private I think she may have no other choice but to use it more than she ever has before to save herself. Sadly no amount of self improvement and apologies will ever erase her racist past, it will follow her forever and people will never stop talking about it, unless there’s something more interesting to discuss. That’s the way the internet works, a photo of camren together in 2021/2022 would generate more buzz than anything Showmila related. Not only would all of the CS who left come back but all the anti-CS would be talking about it too and an entire wave of new fans would be interested enough to join. There would be no room to talk about Camila Cabello being racist when Camila Cabello is actually gay/dating Lauren Jauregui is the new talk.

Of course this entire process will not be instant but we can see that they are building up to something like that. Perhaps Camren being public friends again which would still generate a ton of talk as it did back in the 5H days. She will not instantly break up with S and then be seen making out with L the next day but I do think that although it wasn’t her or her teams plan to use her relationship/sexuality, i think she has no other choice if she ever wants to gain favour with the public again. Let’s not forget that the rest of 5H seem to be on their way to having new music out very very soon and just as camren worked to promote 5H in the old days it will work again in 2021/2022. This would encourage her team even more to follow this route as it would suit everyone, even if they no longer are a group they will always be connected.

We shall wait and see what happens, of course circumstantial situations may arise to cause them to switch up their plans but for now all this 5H, camren and gaymila interactions are no coincidence. That’s for sure.

This concludes my very long post! thank you to anyone who took the time to read this, thank you again to Stuck and if anyone has anything else to add that i might have missed or any questions don’t hesitate! I love hearing what everyone else has to say. To clarify these are all my personal thoughts and speculations and I am not claiming to know anything for certain.

____

Wow, I didn't expect to be a window into another great submission from my dear buddies, but Enzo, I loved your post. And I really totally agree with you in what you mentioned.

The truth is that it is true, Camila has been selling her LGBT + agenda of hers since 2020 and even long before because I always had the theory that she would be let out after having a big heterosexual PR circus. This PR circus with the diva is that circus and what we have been seeing, because it checks all our theories.

As for Gaymila, she has always been there. More crushed with the fucking circus shit maybe, but she's always been there and one thing I want to emphasize is that most of Camila's fandom other than SS or homophobic, would accept Camila out of the closet, ALWAYS AND WHEN NOT WITH LAUREN.

That is why I think Camila would have more followers if the aforementioned are left aside, because they would have no problem supporting her and we would be more, considering that those clowns are partly paid fans and bots.

I don't think she will even give him permission to leave her, but if she does it is because that would also be part of her contract. Of her agreeing to do all this theater of the absurd with the circus, as long as they let her out at the end.

The fucking shit hole that is the industry knows that it has to please its LGBT + audience because we are the ones who support artists the most. The main audience for them may always be heterosexuals, but when they get bored and look for something else, the ace up their sleeve will always be the community and with the examples that you have given my dear Enzo, that is proof of it.

The thing with Camila is that she's never been in the closet. They forced her into a closet and that's different. Camila always felt good being herself and they have tried to cover that with different types of circuses since she was in the band because it is what suits business.

What we are seeing now with Camila is that, a double agenda, that of the circus managed by the idiots behind it and Camila's own agenda that lets us see Gaymila from time to time.

And when I talk about an agenda, I do not do it in a negative way but as something that she must have already planned.

My theme now is that it will come in that aspect. I don't think I'm waiting for a circus engagement or a lavender marriage, but I do hope that Camila can set Gaymila freer every time. Unfortunately, everything else is still very screwed up and this circus just represses it more and more.

The problem is that as long as she does not regain some control over her career and her image, no matter how small, nothing will change.

[princess-from-another-galaxy]

I am so confused by this whole thing ? nothing makes sense anymore. People are saying the op's evidence was fake then others are saying it was true and that the op never deleted her tweets unlike what's been claimed for like 5 days, idk anymore i don't understand.

And now there are SA allegations ?? Everyone is just jumping on the bandwagon instead of admitting to themselves that there's a chance that he might have been a less than desirable boyfriend and that his exes are on the way to ruin his entire career like these two things do not negate each other.

His private life is none of our business and this matter should have been solved privately instead of blasting everything out loud for the world to see. Also that guy who said Licas was his boyfriend can go to hell like... WHY would you do that even if it's true like... i can't understand.

Idk this is seriously getting out of hand and it becomes more and more ridiculous like Allkpop made an article about him abandoning a kitten but that kitten is in Winwin's care ?? Like please stop adding fuel to the fire ?

I think SM and LabelV should have put in their statements that they were gonna like investigate the matter. WayV's reputation is also on the line and China seems to ve very unforgiving. If they don't do a bit more damage control i'm afraid for WayV's future as a whole :(

Yeah, if SM and Label V don't do something soon, WayV's future will be very unsure...

The only SA thing I saw was one of the accusers claiming that Lucas wanted to have sex while she was on her period and sort of nagged her into it (sexual coercion).

Also OP posted on Weibo not Twitter, but yeah, idk if she deleted or not.

You're right this whole thing is a convoluted mess, but if true, nothing he supposedly did is illegal or unforgivable... Being a bad boyfriend isn't really something someone should lose their career over. (And if this was about any western artist, the fans would have not given a single flying fuck)

That one dude really pissed me off as well!! Outing someone (especially a public figure in an homophobic industry and culture) is just about one of the most horrible things you can do!!

[accidentalharrie]

maybe you or one of you followers has access to the telegraph article about Harry "Why does the world want Harry Styles to be gay" I don't know what to think about this headline and I really want to read it but its online only for subscribers

Here you go, Nons. (I hesitate to post this but…)

When Harry Styles played the O2 Arena in 2018, his fans illuminated the cavernous venue in the colours of the LGBTQ Pride flag. Coordinated by a social media account called The Rainbow Project, each seating block was allocated a different colour, so that when Styles played the song Sweet Creature, an enormous rainbow emerged from the crowd. I was there, and it was pretty magical. But it was also emblematic of how Styles’s fanbase views their idol: as a queer icon.

There’s arguably never been a better time to be an LGBTQ pop star. Acts such as Sam Smith, who came out as non-binary earlier this year, Lil Nas X, the first gay man to have a certified diamond song in America, Halsey, queer boyband Brockhampton, pansexual singer Miley Cyrus and Kim Petras, who is transgender, have all enjoyed an incredible year, bagging the biggest hits of 2019.

Still, when Styles shared Lights Up, the lead single from his forthcoming second solo album Fine Line, there was a collective intake of breath. The song and video - in which he appears shirtless in what looks like a sweaty orgy as both men and women grab at him - was heralded as a “bisexual anthem” by the media and fans on Twitter, despite not really making any explicit or obvious statements about sexuality or the LGBTQ community. Instead, Lights Up was just another example of the queer mythologising that occurs around Harry Styles.

As a member of One Direction, Styles was – aside from Zayn Malik – the group’s most charismatic and enticing member. From his first audition on The X Factor to the band’s disbandment in 2015, the teenager from Cheshire managed to elevate himself and his celebrity swiftly rose to the A list. Helping him along was speculation about his private life: during his tenure in the band he was romantically linked to everyone from Taylor Swift to Kendall Jenner.

But there were two other rumoured relationships that dogged Styles more than the others. The first was his close friendship with radio DJ Nick Grimshaw. Styles and Grimshaw were often photographed together, and there were anodyne showbiz reports about how they even shared a wardrobe.

Inevitably, rumours suggested they were romantically linked. In fact, so prolific was speculation that during an interview with British GQ, Styles was asked point blank if he was in a relationship with Grimshaw (he denied any romantic relationship) and, in a move that upset many One Direction fans, if he was bisexual. “Bisexual? Me?” he responded.  “I don’t think so. I’m pretty sure I’m not.”

The second, and perhaps most complicated of rumours, was that he and fellow bandmate Louis Tomlinson were in a relationship. Larry Stylinson, as their shipname is known, began life as fan-fiction but mutated into a wild conspiracy theory as certain fans – dubbed Larries – documented glances, gestures, touches, interviews, performances and outfits in an attempt to confirm the romance. Even now, four years after the band went on “hiatus”, videos are still being posted on YouTube in an attempt to confirm that their relationship was real.

For Tomlinson, Larry was fandom gone too far. He has repeatedly rejected the conspiracy. Styles, meanwhile, has never publicly discussed it. In fact, unlike Tomlinson, whose post-1D career trajectory has seen him adopt a loutish form of masculinity indebted to the Gallagher brothers, Styles has largely leant into the speculation surrounding his sexuality. Aside from the GQ interview, Styles has told interviewers that gender is not that important to him when it comes to dating. In 2017 he said that he had never felt the need to label his sexuality, adding: “I don’t feel like it’s something I’ve ever felt like I have to explain about myself.”

Likewise, during his time touring with One Direction, and during his own solo tours, the image of Styles draped with a rainbow flag became ubiquitous. He has also donated money from merchandise sales to LGBTQ charities. His fashion sense, too, subverts gender norms: Styles has long sported womenswear, floral prints, dangly earrings and painted nails.

Nevertheless, Styles’s hesitance to be candid has met with criticism. He has been accused of queer-baiting - or enjoying the benefits of appealing to an LGBTQ fanbase without having any of the difficulties. I’ve written before about how queer artists, who now enjoy greater visibility and are finding mainstream success, have struggled commercially owing to their sexuality or gender identity.

Styles, who is assumed to be a cisgender, heterosexual male, doesn’t carry any of the commercial risk laden upon Troye Sivan, Years and Years or MNEK, who all use same-gender pronouns in their music and are explicitly gay in their videos. His music – with its nods to rock’n’roll, Americana and folk ­– doesn’t feel very queer, either. Looking at it this way, the queer idolisation of Harry Styles doesn’t feel deserved.

“The thing with Harry Styles is that he often does the bare minimum and gets an out-sized load of credit for it,” says songwriter and record label manager Grace Medford. For Medford, who has worked at Syco and is now part of the team at Xenomania records, Styles’s queer narrative has been projected on him by the media and his fans. “I don’t think that he queer-baits, but I don’t think he does anywhere near enough to get the response that he does.”

Of course, Styles does not need to explain or be specific about his sexuality. As Medford puts it: “he’s well within his rights to live his life how he chooses.” However, he has also created a space for himself in pop that allows him that ambiguity.

It’s a privilege few pop stars have. Last year, Rita Ora was hit with criticism after her song Girls, a collaboration with Charli XCX, Cardi B and Bebe Rexha, was dubbed problematic and accused of performative bisexuality. Even though Ora explicitly sang the lyric “I’m 50-50 and I’m never gonna hide it”, she was lambasted by social media critics, media commentary and even her fellow artists until she was forced to publicly confirm her bisexuality.

But the same was not done to Styles when he performed unreleased song “Medicine” during his world tour. The lyrics have never been confirmed, but the song is said to contain the line: “The boys and the girls are in/ I mess around with him/ And I’m okay with it.” Instead of probing him for clarity or accusing him of performativity, the song was labelled a “bisexual anthem” and praised as “a breakthrough for bisexual music fans”.

Of course, there’s misogyny inherent to such reactions. But there’s also something more layered and complex at play, too. “There’s such a dearth of queer people to look up to, especially people at Harry’s level,” posits Medford. “With somebody who is seen as cool and credible and attractive as Harry, part of it is wishful thinking, I think.

“The fact is, he was put together into a boyband on a television show by a Pussycat Doll. And he has rebranded as Mick Jagger’s spiritual successor and sings with Stevie Nicks; he’s really done the work there. Part of him doing that work is him stepping back and letting other people create a story for him.”

One only has to look at how Styles’ celebrity manifests itself (cool, fashionable, artistic) in comparison to that of his former bandmates. Liam Payne (this week dubbed by the tabloids as a chart failure) has been a tabloid fixture since his public relationship with Cheryl Cole and relies on countless interviews, photoshoots and even an advertising campaign for Hugo Boss to maintain his fame.

Styles, meanwhile, doesn’t really engage with social media. He also rarely appears in public and carefully chooses what kind of press he does, actively limiting the number of interviews he gives. Styles’s reticence to engage with the media and general public – perhaps a form of self-preservation – has awarded him a rare mystique that few people in the public eye possess.

This enigmatic personal, along with his sexual ambiguity, his support of LGBTQ charities and his gender-fluid approach to fashion, creates the perfect incubation for queer fandom. It also provides a shield against serious accusations of queer-baiting. As Medford argues: “Harry’s queer mythology has been presented to and bestowed upon him by queer people whereas other acts feel like they have to actively seek that out.”

Ultimately, the way that Styles navigates his queer fandom doesn’t feel calculated or contrived. For Eli, an 18-year-old from Orlando who grew up with One Direction, seeing Styles “grow into himself” has been important. He suggests that Styles’ queer accessibility has helped to create a safe space for fans. “Watching him on tour dance on stage every night in his frilly outfits, singing about liking boys and girls, waving around pride flags, and even helping a fan come out to her mom, really helped me come to terms with my own sexuality,” he explains.

Vicky, who is 25 and from London, agrees: “To be able to attend his show with my pansexual flag and wave it around and feel so much love and respect - it’s an amazing feeling. I’m aware so many queer people can’t experience it so I’m very grateful Harry creates these safe spaces through his music and concerts.”

There’s appeal in Styles’s ambiguity, too. Summer Shaud, from Boston, says that Styles’ “giving no f—-” approach to sexuality and gender is “inspiring and affirming” for those people who are coming to terms with their own identities or those who live in the middle of sexuality or gender spectrums. “There’s enormous pressure from certain gatekeeping voices within the queer community to perform queerness in an approved, unambiguous way, often coming from people with no substantive understanding of bisexuality or genderfluidity who are still looking to put everyone into a box,” she argues. “Harry’s gender presentation, queer-coding, and refusal to label himself are a defiant rebuke of that “You’re Not Doing It Right” attitude, and that resonates so strongly with queers who aren’t exclusively homosexual or exclusively binary.”

Shaud says that the queer community that has congregated around Styles is another reason she’s so drawn to him. “Seeing how his last tour was such an incredible site of affirmation and belonging for queers is deeply moving to me, and as older queer [Shaud is 41] I’m so grateful that all the young people growing up together with Harry have someone like him to provide that.”

In fact, she argues that there’s a symbiotic relationship between Styles and his queer fans. She cites an interview he gave to Rolling Stone this year in which he said how transformative the tour was for him. “For me the tour was the biggest thing in terms of being more accepting of myself, I think,” Styles shared. “I kept thinking, ‘Oh wow, they really want me to be myself. And be out and do it.’”

All of the queer Harry Styles fans I spoke to agreed that it really didn’t matter whether their idol was explicit about his sexuality or not. “It’s weird that people scrutinise people who don’t label [their sexuality] when they have no idea what that person feels like inside or, in Harry’s case, what it’s like to be under the public eye,” argues Valerie, who is 18. “It’s an individual choice, not ours,” agrees Vicky.

Ollie, 22 and from Brighton, takes a more rounded view, however: “On one hand, I think that quite simply it isn’t any of anyone else’s business. On the other, if you place yourself in the public eye to the level of fame that he has then you should be prepared to be probed about every minute detail of your personal life, whether you like it or not – you should at least be prepared to be questioned about it.” Still, he says that the good that Styles does is what’s important: “He brings fantastic support and attention to the community, whether he is actively a part of it or not.”

Arguably, the ambiguity and mystery that surrounds Styles only allows more space for queer people to find safety in him and in the fandom.

Still, if fans are expecting a queer coming of age with new album Fine Line, they will be disappointed. Lyrically, he doesn’t venture into new territory, although there are some new musical flares. He also seems like he’s started to distance himself a little from the ambiguity, too. “I’m aware that as a white male, I don’t go through the same things as a lot of the people that come to the shows,” he told Rolling Stone. “I can’t claim that I know what it’s like, because I don’t. So I’m not trying to say, ‘I understand what it’s like.’ I’m just trying to make people feel included and seen.” Having said that, within weeks Styles appeared on Saturday Night Live playing a gay social media manager, using queer slang and even wearing an S&M harness.

And so the cycle of queer mythologising continues, and is likely to continue for the rest of Styles’s career. And maybe things will change and maybe they won’t.

“If you are black, if you are white, if you are gay, if you are straight, if you are transgender — whoever you are, whoever you want to be, I support you,” he said earlier this year. “I love every single one of you.” In a world where LGBTQ rights are threatened and there’s socio-political insecurity, perhaps, for now at least, that’s enough.