#i feel like the relationship with the italy brothers and rome is honestly very similar to catra and adora's relationship with shadow weaver

[urmomsstuntdouble]

can we get a north italy character analysis too?? congrats on the 100 followers!! 💖💖💖

absolutely! i feel like im a bit unnecessarily hard on him sometimes...I really do love Veneziano as a character though. he’s so complex and well written! also thank you! 

insecurity

So it probably comes as no surprise that I think Vene is very insecure. I think some of the sources of his insecurity are survivor’s guilt, how a lot of people see him as being useless and only good at art/fashion/food, and that he feels like nobody would care about him if he wasnt the grandson of Rome. 

Where his survivor’s guilt is concerned, I think that there used to be a lot more personifications for Italy (and the entire world tbh), for all the city-states. Because of the strength of the “national” identity, i don’t think it’s out of the question for there to have been other personifications (see the war of the bucket), although only Veneto and Sicily are left by now. This is one explanation for why he seems so extroverted- Because he grew up surrounded by other people, and now he feels very much alone in comparison. 

As for the only being good at art/fashion/food, he doesn’t like that people reduce him down to these traits. I think it makes him feel very weak, or like he’s bad at being a nation. Yeah, nobody knows what the purpose of the nations is, but the expectation coming from both the other nations and all their people is that they must be strong. So Feli really doesn’t like that nobody sees him as being strong- partially because in his mind, not being strong means he’s a failure. Part of this is just because that’s how it was for much of European history, but I think some of it is also because of how Rome treated him when he was a kid. More on that later. But yeah, it feels like nobody acknowledges him for anything other than the fun parts of his country. And that’s cool and all, one does like being known for fun times, but it makes him feel a bit insecure and he gets self-deprecating a lot because history ain’t pretty, ya know? More importantly, no one person is pretty all the time, and the way people see him as being so fun and cute and quirky and all makes him feel like he’s not allowed to express his negative emotions. That’s no good no matter who you are but for an immortal it’s just so much worse, because while you may have. idk 10 years of baggage. he has literal centuries. 

I also think him being the grandson of Rome makes him really insecure and shaky in his identity. Such big shoes to fill, ya know? He’s not terrible at filling them- Venice being so incredibly welthy during the Renaissance and all- but the way that Rome treated him as a child didn’t help. I think that the way Rome’s parenting is viewed is often through the lens of neglecting Romano, but (and this is a bit of a while hc time) i dont think it was actually like that? or at least not super clear cut. I think that Rome tried to create some competition between his grandsons, maybe to prevent them from rising up as nations and lessening some of his power, or to keep them from developing a strong enough bond to topple him. Veneziano and Romano were definitely his two favorite kids, if favorite is the right word. He paid the most attention to them, and manufactured some of the basis for their present day relationship- Such as Romano’s jealousy, which isn’t as intense in the present day, but definitely stems from being made to feel like he wasn’t as worthy of parental love. The way this affected Vene, on the other hand, is that he suddenly felt like he had to be perfect at all times or his grandpa would cast him aside, just as he did with Romano and their other siblings. It also created Veneziano’s need for constant validation, as there was a constant fear that his paternal figure hated him for just existing (because Rome definitely made the other Italian personifications feel like that..and other Roman provinces, like Spain and France, but i think that’s a little off topic). All this is to say that his relationship with Rome set up a lot of his present day insecurities about how nobody loves him or needs him- Because as a little baby country, he definitely needed someone to care for him, but Rome didn’t need him back. This mindset that was established during his youth is very much still prevalent, down to him not being able to hold grudges. Because when Vene was young, his grandpa was the main person who had wronged him, but he couldn’t make himself hold a grudge against Rome- That’s his grandfather and his protector, so he didn’t feel like it was okay for him to hate him. 

manipulative tendencies

A lot of people think that Veneziano is manipulative, and I would have to agree. I think that some of this is inherited from Rome, and some of it is due to his career as a businessman. Where Rome is concerned, the way that he raised his grandkids was super toxic, especially with how he turned Veneziano into someone constantly worrying about what other think of him. But...if Vene could control how others thought of him...he wouldn’t have to worry...and yeah that’s basically where I think him being manipulative came from. It’s also a little bit based on Machiavelli’s The Prince, as Veneziano wants very much to be loved, but the only way he knows how to make people like him is through fear, as that’s how his grandfather did that. 

need to be useful

So, going back to what I said earlier about how his angsty childhood with Rome made him feel like he always had to be perfect- I think that might’ve contributed somewhat to this idea he has that he must be helpful and useful Or Else. This is seen throughout the comic, although I think it’s most obvious where Romano is concerned. He wants to make things easier for his brother, which is mostly done in the form of making sure Romano can relax and doesn’t stress himself out too much with work and all that. However, he doesn’t do this with other characters he’s close with, like Germany and Japan- Because he doesn’t think he can be of any use to them. I mean, he would like to be, but he’s not out here trying to do all their work for them and save them from stress. In fact, he more often relies on them for those things. But Romano is at his same level, sort of, so he could be useful for Romano. Of course Romano has an entirely different perception of this. 

I think there’s also some lingering stuff from Youth that makes him need to be useful, other than just you are the heir of the roman empire and you are an utter FAILURE if you can’t be great on your own. I think his fear of abandonment stems from his upbringing too, which is why he’s so clingy and always trying to please others. He knows what might happen to him if he doesn’t, and if he’s in the situation of fighting for someone’s approval, he will play dirty. 

Anyway, I think that’s about it! A bit longer than I anticipated, but ah well. analysis bb. I hope you liked it, and thank you for the request! 

writing requests

[clodiuspulcher]

 WOW! You guys really don’t want me to do my work. Time to answer ALL of these questions  1. ancient Greece or ancient Rome? Ya’ll.... yall should know.... this ... my URL is a Roman politician and I exclusively post about late Roman Republic political drama I’m just so much more FOND of Ancient Rome. I’m not really sure why but I got Into it earlier since I took Latin in high school and I was always fascinated by the Roman history and culture I learned in Latin  which I was able to indulge once I got to college... (also Greek scares me and i’m a coward) 2. who is your favourite Roman emperor? Absolutely Augustus and this might be where I get... dissent but he truly did a lot of necessary good for Rome not the least of which was establishing an era of political peace after almost 100 years of near-constant civil war, and I don’t think the importance of the stability of his rule can be overstated. He aimed to stabilize and rebuild Rome on every level and mostly succeeded; I doubt it would’ve recovered after the especially violent last few decades otherwise. Augustus himself actually emphasized stability and continuity in his own propaganda because he knew how important that was to the people of Rome, of all classes. Speaking of, Augustus adopted measures to curry popular favor that were straight out of Clodius’s book in ways that legitimately helped + also rebuilt and revamped Rome’s infrastructure and physically improved the city along with creating a stable political environment and functional governmental system (let’s be honest the Republic was fucking dead). I’m just gonna like. Answer this question by copying and pasting the Res Gestae here lol  I also think pre-Augustus Octavian is an interesting political figure which biases me somewhat and I love Augustan art and iconography, not just that of the regime but what was created during his rule in general as art and literature flourished  (no but really he was... honestly the best possible outcome after Caesar’s assassination in my opinion and he actively improved / revitalized Rome in some Important ways) 3. which is your favourite Greek city-state? I uh REALLY dont know enough to choose but seeing as I’ve been reading and enjoying works by Athenian playwrights all semester... how bout athens 4. tell me about the classical ladies you love the most OH BOY. Rome has a History of important politically active women and I love all of them so let me go in chronological order with my ABSOLUTE favorites. - Tanaquil: Etruscan wife of the semi-mythical king of Rome Tarquinius Priscus, she was intelligent and skilled in interpreting omens / divining (which were considered Etruscan disciplines) and she was ambitious too. She encouraged her husband to make his fortune in Rome and helped him attain political power, recognized the destiny of their adopted son Servius Tullius through ANOTHER omen, etc. She advised and helped him throughout his rule and aided the peaceful transfer of power to Servius Tullius following his death I love her i LOVE HER. - Cornelia Africana: Daughter of Scipio Africanus and mother of two of my favorite Roman politicians, the brothers Gracchi, she remained a widow after her first husband’s death despite having people like king Ptolemy ask for her hand. She educated her children rigorously and was active in their political careers especially that of Gaius Gracchus and her reputation as chaste, noble, and austere established her as a role model for Roman women for centuries to come.  - Clodia Metelli: She’s the Lesbia of Catullus’s poetry but she was also really politically involved, endorsing her brother’s wild populism and aiding and abetting him whenever she could, notably changing her name when he changed his to reflect his populist desires. She was married to Metellus Celer and tried to strongarm this conservative consul into supporting the radical Clodius whenever she could- and sometimes it worked. Clodius brags about the benefits of being brother in law to a consul and Cicero was irritated by the fact that she was so involved in her brother’s career but it makes me love her even more. - Fulvia: Yall KNOW how I feel about Fulvia but I just have to talk about her whenever I can. As Clodius’s wife she was never far from his side, to the point that it was something Cicero commented on after his death. Following his murder, Fulvia established herself as the heir to Clodius’s political role and through her marriages to Clodius’s allies, Curio and later Antony, she was able to promulgate populist legislation and continue Clodius’s work / establish his legacy so that his death wasn’t in vain (both of their laws have a more populist streak after their marriages to Fulvia). As Antony’s wife she was especially powerful after Caesar’s assassination and she fought Octavian personally when Antony’s interests were being threatened (while he fucked around in Egypt).  - Porcia Catonis: I may not like Brutus but I love Porcia who proved she was strong enough for Brutus to confide in by stabbing herself in the thigh and not revealing her pain for a significant amount of time. She was steadfastly loyal and was supposedly the only woman who knew about the conspiracy to assassinate Caesar, and her suicide, in line with that of her father Cato,  - Livia Drusilla: LIVIA did NOTHING WRONG and I legitimately love her so much. First the story of how she ended up married to Octavian is so... much lol but despite their scandalous whirlwind marriage they were married for 51 years, and she was one of Augustus’s closest advisors (the senate criticized him for being too under her control but you know what). Roman wives didn’t normally go on military campaigns w/ their husbands but Livia did, and she also had very public religious and political roles, she was devoted to Augustus and he “loved and esteemed her to the end without a rival”. There’s so much more I can say about her but she was as ambitious and driven and intelligent as her husband and after Augustus’s death she worked to maintain his legacy and was eventually deified alongside him - Octavia: Octavian/ Augustus’s sister, Octavia was like. truly and genuinely good she was loyal to both Octavian and Antony after she married him and she was essentially the glue that held the second triumvirate together for a time. She was directly involved in Octavian’s politics through this marriage and there’s a record of her begging the two of them not to go to war, at least for her sake; she’s the reason this tenuous alliance lasted as long as it did. She was also incredibly generous and kind, upon marrying Antony she took in and raised his kids by Fulvia and after Antony’s death she raised also his children by Cleopatra, working to provide them with good lives and advantageous marriages ... how wholesome... - Agrippina (both of them): If you really want to write about conniving devious plotting murderous women of the Julio-Claudian dynasty.... the Agrippinas EXIST. Agrippina the elder also went on her husband Germanicus’s military campaigns and campaigned herself tirelessly for the political advancement of her sons, and Agrippina the younger... oh boy ... she schemed her way into the position of empress and then absolutely annihilated any potential rival for her son even though one he became emperor their relationship was ... fraught to say the least. Anyway the point is I love women who are openly ruthless ambitious and power-hungry and they’re great. 5. what is your favourite story from Herodotus's Histories? The one where he talks about how the Etruscan nation was founded / how the Etruscans came to live in Italy- even though he was wrong about Etruscan origins and they probably /were/ native to Italy I’m really fond of and interested in Etruscan culture so I like hearing any historical accounts about them.  6. who is your favourite character from the Iliad or Odyssey? Aeneas was TECHNICALLY there during the Trojan war DO NOT QUESTION OR COMMENT ABOUT THIS I WOULD DIE FOR HIM 7. who is your favourite ancient historian? Has to be Plutarch- I know he writes history for a moralizing purpose but all the subjects of his biographies are written with a certain level of complexity and nuance and something about his writing style really resonates with me like I’ve read both his and Appian’s accounts of the Gracchi brothers’ lives and both were good but Plutarch’s brought me to tears. The first ~classics thing~ I ever read that truly engaged me and captured me was his Life of Antony which is probably my favorite in that even though he condemns Antony’s actions he gives him redeeming qualities, he portrays him and even Cleopatra really sympathetically and his description of Antony’s death... is so pathetic and upsetting it wounds me I love Plutarch s o much. 8. what are your five favourite myths? Anything that Propertius or Catullus references in their poetry is my favorite :) 9. what are your top five otps? 1. Augustus and Livia married for 51 years loved each other with All their hearts  2. Antony and Cleopatra: I love this melodramatic garbage fire of a relationship  3. Clodius Pulcher and Fulvia: PERFECTLY matched politically-minded partners who had similar goals and balanced out each other and loved each other DEEPLY HE WAS ALWAYS BY HER SIDE?! 4. Cicero and Atticus - romantically OR platonically however you want to interpret this they loved each other so much and every letter from Cicero where he talks about how badly he wants to see Atticus again, that implores Atticus to write more.... it’s really sweet and wholesome 5.  I can’t believe Antony gets to be on this list twice but his relationship with Gaius Curio is so... much and like he climbed into Curio’s house through the CEILING because he was banned from the house by Antony’s dad (because he was in debt lol), and the fact that someone hasn’t made a movie or a sitcom about this yet is so... disappointing.  10. recommend a piece of fiction about the classical world I haven’t read any ancient Rome historical fiction!!! Yet!!!! But both the Roma Sub Rosa and the Robert Harris Cicero Novels come very highly recommended to me and I have to buy both of them so 11. recommend a piece of non-fiction about the classical world I really really need everyone here to read TWO biographies:  1. The patrician tribune, it’s The Clodius Biography I keep talking about it provides a really balanced and detail picture of Clodius Pulcher’s political career AND his life plus this author writes a lot fo academic papers about Clodius  2. The tribune’s sister, it’s a Clodia biography and MY PROFESSOR WROTE IT and she loves Clodia so much and she wrote so much incredible content about Clodia and this is like a Collection and Combination of all of this... yall should all read it  ANd 3. if you haven’t read plutarch’s Life of Antony I think you should really read it bc you can’t UNderstand Me or My Blog without this essential piece of literature and also it has THE FULVIA LINE 12. who is your favourite poet? why? I’m going to be honest...... I did not consider myself a poetry person for the longest time. I was always way more into the politicians than the writers of ancient Rome because I’ve always felt like I didn’t quite GET poetry? But then I actually read more Latin poetry and also .... I fell in love... for real... and at that point all at once the poetry of like, Catullus, really struck me for the first time and I REALIZED. I hope that doesn’t sound too ridiculous lmao but.. I’m a romantic at heart.  SO in general I really love Roman love poetry and I do like Catullus - I especially like that he was involved with Clodius and co through Clodia and was part of that circle. He references Caesar and Caelius and Clodius in his poetry, which is fun but.... my favorite poet, that I have read so far is.... Propertius for a few reasons  I REALLY like Roman love elegy as a genre and Propertius is my favorite of the elegists. I like how gentle his poetry is and even though it might seem overwrought I think it’s passionate and genuine and sweet - he has big feelings?! he wants to Express them?  Propertius also really likes to do the reversal of gender roles thing which is like common in Roman elegy but  Propertius Especially does it wrt romantic / sexual contexts  and although he does write tender and romantic love poetry it’s definitely not wholly apolitical like Propertius not only emphasizes that he’s devoting his life to love and presents this in contrast to the expectations of how Young Roman Noblemen should live / act / what they should pursue, which is an especially brave statement at the time he’s writing since he’s going against Augustus’s moral reforms, the strict societal roles promulgated by Augustus to rebuild and restore the roman senatorial class. He even goes so far as to say he refuses to have sons because they’ll just be sent out to die in Rome’s wars which is.... a pretty powerful and cynical statement and I love how bold he is about it. So Propertius combines 3 things I Really like, gentle love poetry, femdom, and political commentary on Augustan Rome 13. if you could time-travel to the classical world for a day, where would you go and why? The responsible answer is I would bring antibiotics to the Augustan court in 23 BC and save Marcellus from typhoid fever but. I just want to be able to experience in real time ONE argument between Cicero and Clodius in the senate in real time that would be so much fun and so I think that’s where’d I go and also I could potentially make out with Clodius or one of his friends after I mean I’m there for the whole day right 14. which Greek tragedy is your favourite? I’m actually in a Greek drama class right now, so I can give a legitimate answer to this question.

 I would have to say, of the ones I’ve read, Ajax resonated the most with me and is probably my favorite. Aristotle said tragedy should be able to evoke pity and fear and if that’s the mark of a good tragedy Ajax is the best one of all to me. One of its central themes at least when I read it is that Ajax, having defined himself by the respect he commanded based on his military ability, by his role as an honored soldier, has nothing left when he loses this, and he absolutely falls apart. His entire identity is tied up with this single skill he cultivated and the honor he possesses because of said skill, seeing his reaction to this loss, his realization that the only thing that mattered, the one thing he had, has been destroyed and it’s /his/ fault- this hit me far too close to home. once he’s no longer known as a great warrior, to himself he’s nothing, and no one, in Ajax’s mind that’s all he has and all he was. If tragedy is meant to inspire pity and fear, holy shit is Ajax effective because I felt both instantly since his fate - not so much the death but realizing what he defined himself by is lost forever because of his failures and that there’s nothing left of him now-  is what I fear most in the world. 15. Alexander the Great or Julius Caesar? CAESAR. I mean, I appreciate Alexander the Great (without whom the Ptolemies and Cleopatra wouldn’t have come into power) but I’ve read a lot more about Caesar, I know more about him as a person. I’m making this decision mostly on like their politics / what I know about them because I REALLY don’t give a s hit about individual battles / wars in general, this isn’t me comparing military scoreboards or anything lol.  I just know more about Caesar, approve of his Vaguely populist policies, and he /was/ trying to fix some very broken systems in rome / was constantly frustrated by senatorial factionalists etc...  and IM relatively sympathetic towards him although I like the minor more radical less famous populares more ... obviously. So I like Caesar but he’s not that important to me I’m not like passionately devoted to Caesar

16. Cicero - love him or loathe him? LOVE CICERO. I honestly love him so much and even though politically I disagree with the view he had or choices he made... I understand why he made them and it must have been incredibly hard to be a moderate politician, or any kind of politician at all coming from a non senatorial background, and as much as I joke about it he DID save Rome from the Very real threat of Catiline (and honestly at this point his self-aggrandizing behavior is just as endearing as it is aggravating to me.... god). I believe he genuinely tried to do what was right and to be moral and upstanding in a time when that was definitely not the norm- see his governorships of Sicily and Cilicia especially compared to his corrupt contemporaries. He stood by his principles even when that wasn’t politically expedient - whenever he does have to go against them, he agonizes to Atticus and feels guilty about it- and I’m... impressed by that. He was obviously a great statesman/orator/lawyer - all of his speeches are incredibly wild and fun to read and I can only imagine what hearing them live would’ve been like. His name and background means he didn’t have the luxury of being radically populist like Clodius, he didn’t have his family to fall back on in general, he had to work twice as hard and was scorned by the optimates anyway and i FEEL FOR HIM. He was nervous, though, and timid sometimes, and I ... relate to that.

 I think if you hate Cicero... you should read his letters to Atticus because they’re so humanizing and genuine and his emotional turmoil over the political circumstances he finds himself in can be heartbreaking. He cares so much about Atticus and about his family and his despair and elation and anxiety really hit me hard when I read them. Plus they can be genuinely funny when he’s, like, talking about Clodius or making fun of someone he hates which is often, Cicero’s sense of humor is one of the many things I love and appreciate about him... some of his letters are legitimately hilarious? please. he’s so petty sometimes, I love that too, okay im done. 17. if you could recover one lost work, which one would it be? This is a tough one... I feel like it would be greedy to ask for more Cicero since we already have so much of his work but his Consolation he wrote to himself after the death of Tullia would be incredible.  I also wish we had the entirety of Cicero’s Against Clodius and Curio speech because what we do have is... absolutely amazing and the rest would be a treasure to read.  Conversely, because we have so much of Cicero, and only of Cicero, our view of late Roman Republic politics is inevitably warped. I wish we had just one of the speeches Clodius gave in response to Cicero, so we could have his side of the story, so to speak. We have to piece together this picture of his politics based on what his greatest enemy said about him so there’s inevitably going to be a bias- and Cicero DOES say in his letters that Clodius spoke against him too, they had witty exchanges, etc, but we don’t have Clodius’s speeches at all! If we had just one of his speeches he gave to the people as tribune, or the one he gave to defend himself at the Bona Dea trial, or the one that prompted Cicero’s De Haruspicum in response- just one.  I just want to hear what Clodius said in his own words.... 18. what is your favourite movie or TV show set in ancient Greece or Rome? The Better Call Saul Roman Law AU I have in my head next question :) 19. tell me about an obscure classical figure who needs more love My URL is Clodius Pulcher and I wish more people legitimately studied and thought about Clodius with some nuance so that the exaggerated picture we see of him from Cicero isn’t taken as Absolute fact. I love him so much with my life... I also wish there was more love for Caelius and Curio since they’re really interesting historical figures who navigated a world of ever-changing alliances pretty cannily -until they died. Caelius just from his letters to Cicero seems like such a witty and sardonic person I wish more people cared about this entire circle.  Finally i’ve gotta say Fulvia needs so much more love than she gets like people HERE know about her but like. She was so vitally important and uniquely powerful as a woman during the late Roman Republic and to be honest I don’t think you can talk about the aftermath of Clodius’s death or Antony’s role after Caesar’s assassination without mentioning Fulvia, she’s so essential to the political careers of ALL her husbands. And yet, she’s really underrepresented in historical fiction and nonfiction about this time.  20. what do you love most about studying classics? I’m an incredibly anxious person I don’t take any risks or have many friends. When I read / learn about history I can... vicariously experience what taking a risk must feel like when I read about like Clodius Pulcher’s wild lifestyle, and sometimes learning a lot about a historical figure makes me feel like they’re my friend. so. probably the most pathetic possible answer to this question but thats me.