#im only talking about sapphire/alpha sapphire and generations context here

[gymleaderroark]

idk if its been said before but i genuinely cant stand when people try to argue that archie was trying to do shit for the good of humanity. ive seen him portrayed that way and its like? what would give u that idea? absolutely nothing in either rse or oras ever suggests he wanted that lmao... he cares about the wellbeing of water pokemon immensely and that is his canonical driving force, he doesnt give a shit whether the damage from kyogre kills the entirety of humanity and he explicitly states it AND its his endgame anyway since he says that humanity are essentially ruining the world for pokemon. hes not heartless by any means and he loves his team to bits!! BUT he has a huge dream and he views the general public as an obstacle to it. hes a loveable character and really charismatic (moreso in oras id argue) who is super multilayered but his driving force has nothing to do with liking people at all lmao, even if it would be fitting to his personality to think that. i feel like it undermines his entire character to think that its the case? it may be the case for the grunts but if anything theyre mainly just ocean enthusiasts and jolly dumbasses who enjoy the kinship of team aqua and if anything i doubt they wouldve been told the deeper layer of the plan as even shelly tried to advise archie against going ahead with it after doing her research at the weather institute. she also says (oras)"cant you see that the world you dream of and the world that kyogre will create are two completely different places?!" to archie showing that he absolutely has not been honest to even her about his actual intentions, and they have a friendship that goes back yeeears. he's only told her the superficial truth of his plan not the bit thats like weelll-i-also-kinda-wanna-kill-everyone lmao.. BUT LIKE THIS ENTIRE THING brings on the question of WHY DOES HE SUDDENLY CHANGE HIS MIND SO QUICKLY WHEN IT COMES TO IT??? it makes absolutely no sense going along with his meticulous work to ensure his plan works and that nobody gets in the way of it AND on top of that he manages to pull it off (in sapphire/alpha sapphire canon). one minute hes basking in the glory of wahoo i did it boys and then the next hes begging to protag to fix everything?? i really doubt its because he suddenly realised people are actually worth saving cause that makes absolutely no sense. generations does a brilliant job in visually showing how destructive kyogre truly is for both people AND pokemon. i have 0 doubt that he realised as hoenn and its pokemon were being fucking ripped to shreds by kyogre that hed made a huge mistake. but not only this, im pretty sure he wouldve felt guilty as hell seeing how panicked his his admins and team were and wouldve felt guilty as all hell for lying to them and also manipulating them to help him achieve his dream. i think thats why when hes saying (oras) "save us... the world... and kyogre" to the protag hes truly referring to himself and his team (potentially the protag) when he says 'us', 'the world' being pokemon and the nature they live in and kyogre as in save it from its primal reverted state. SO YEA i absolutely refuse to believe he was ever doing it for humans, even after he changes his mind!! TLDR: archie never liked people and didnt even in the aftermath of kyogre stop portraying him like that i BEG