#imagine thomas finding out the riddler tried to kill his son

[jessilynallendilla]

AU idea

Due to some dimensional fuckery because the Flashpoint timeline was written back out of existence instead of being erased Thomas Wayne is transported to a different Earth's Gotham

It's Battinson's Gotham post Riddler and maybe Robin acquisition

Like imagine Thomas trying to adapt to this different future Gotham while remaining incognito

Finding this version of his son who's also a vigilante and barely mentally functioning

When Battinson isn't stalking Thomas Thomas is stalking his son

Battinson trying to track down this mysterious figure dressed up like him thinking it's another psychopathic fanboy

Trying to parent a traumatized boy who sneaks out to track down his parent's killer while this violent Batman obsessed murderer is out there

have fun

[wearetakingthehobbitstogallifrey]

Gotham 4x12 (*shrieks* SPOILERS)

Before we begin can I just say that Bruce better shape the heck up by the end of this episode and apologize to Alfred. And Harvey and Jim better make up

-Jim goes into a "respectable establishment" and I keep missing the name of the guy he is looking for because I keep getting distracted by his rough voice

-Oh Waaaait he was looking for Harvey :( he misses his brother :(

-aaah the birth of Poison Ivy. Tag yourself I am both the guy who says what the and the girl who is like DON'T TOUCH IT YOU FOOL

-NOOOO Alfred is haunting a diner because he has nowhere to go because my poor stupid lost son Bruce kicked him out

-sidenote: as cool as Jim's voice is, Alfred's voice is 10000000 times cooler

-uh oh these fools are gonna pick on Alfred. They are sooo going to regret that

-Lee being a leader and telling the people of the Narrows that they need to band together is da best and

-I like Ivy's voice too...OMG she just turned a guy into mOSS

-ALFRED SCHOOLING THE THUGS IN BRITISH LITERATURE IS EVERYTHING BUT THEN

"Wallet, watch, jewelry"

"Absolutely NOT. I mean, you're a big man, but you're out of shape. And what, you're three beers in already?" BAHAHAHAHA THEN HE JUST DESTROYS HIM

-the other guys are lucky that Jim shows up before Alfred can rearrange their faces too

-AAAAAH NOO THE LOOK ON ALFRED,S FACE WHEN JIM ASKS IF BRUCE IS WITH HIM :( he is upset and almost ashamed looking (maybe for Bruce? Or for himself because he wasn't able to father/guide/guard Bruce like he wanted to? UGH

-Alfred trying to be like yeah it's not such a terrible place to live, rent is cheap, and Jim's face and inflection of one in "You live here?" It's just like wtf happened when I was busy being hoodwinked by Sofia?!

-Ed being super impressed by Lee is my favorite thing look at his smile

-BOMB

-OMG WAIT WE HADN'T EVEN REACHED THE TITLE CARD YET THIS EPISODE IS GONNA BE LIT

-Lucius Fox is super brilliant I love him

-Jim is worried about whatever the heck is going on with the Alfred and Bruce situation and he promises to call Alfred and gives him a pat on the back and it just kills me because look Alfred is a bit of a recluse and for the past few years has lived almost solely for Bruce Wayne and like does he have any friends really? He has nowhere to go and no one to talk to :( please remember to call him, Jim

-LOOK I KNOW IT WON'T FREAKING LAST BECAUSE GOTHAM HATES LETTING US HAVE NICE THINGS BUT I LOVE ED SUPPORTING LEE AND I LOVE HIM PACING THE FLOOR FURIOUS THAT SOMEONE TRIED TO KILL HER (

-MY NAME IS BUTCH. BUTCH GILZEAN. OOPS

-omg Alfred is now the hero of the Narrows diner lol getting free drinks and the guy who just tried to mug him is like MAD RESPECT dude like you ran into a burning building to save people you ROCK and Alfred is like ?? ? Right, um, friends?? Aww and shares a drink with him

-Alfred then notices the waitress has a bruise on the side of her head. That she lies about. Someone is going down later, I can sense it

-lol Lucius and Jim on the case

L: you got a hunch

J: no, just a bad feeling

*creepy toy moves and makes a noise*

J: of course I'd happily be wrong

L, in a tone of the utmost disgust: who buys these things

-LUCIUS IS SO dONE WITH ALMOST GETTING MURDERED BY TOYS

-young guy: I DIDN'T KNOW WHAT MY FATHER WAS DOING

Jim, in THE flattest voice imaginable: there's a machine gun built into the wooden hand of this nutcracker here. Excuse me if I find that hard to believe

-ivy waking up in a new body with new powers and the first thing she does is find a sparkly dress and open a pint of ice cream nice

-uh-oh, wayne enterprises had a gas leak, betcha Ivy's gonna go after the company later!

-after she goes a after the sirens?! Wait does she hate all of them or does she remember that Selina is her friend?

-this girl is in love with Alfred's accent and I'm like SAME

-also I can promise you that Alfred is fixing to beat up the girl's abuser just watch

-EXCUSE YOU GOTHAM HOW DARE YOU MAKE ME CRY OVER ALFRED'S FRIENDSHIP WITH AND LOYALTY TO THOMAS WAYNE UGH MY HEART I NEED 575498 FANFICS ABOUT THIS AND I ALSO NEED BRUCE TO SHAPE THE HECK UP AND SEE EXACTLY HOW MUCH HE HAS HURT ALFRED AND HOW HIS DAD WOULD BE DISAPPOINTED IN HIM FOR THIS NOT FOR THE OTHER STUFF AND WHYYYY I CAN'T THE FEELS

-UGH HE TRIED ALFRED TRIED :(

-Lucius, sees poison ivy flourishing in a dead man's body: fASCINATING

Me: ... ... ..Gotham is a strange place with strange people

-OMG BRUCE IS BEING A COMPLETE IDIOT AND SELINA IS LIKE WHAT THE HELL. WHAT THE ACTUAL F. BRUCE WHAT ARE YOU DOING UGH

SHE SEES HIM AND SHE KNOWS HIM AND SHE KNOWS THIS IS LITERALLY THE OPPOSITE OF THE TYPE OF PERSON HE IS IN HIS HEART AND SOUL I HOPE SHE CALLS HIM OUT EVERY DAY TILL HE WAKES UP

-I can't stand drunk stupid Bruce who seems to think acting like a fool is gonna make him forget all the terrible things that have happened to him. I feel bad for him but good gravy son this cannot stand. At the same time I can see how this idiot playboy period of his life will ruin any conception people (maybe especially Jim) have of him as an intelligent, competent, intense young man who they might suspect of being the Batman

-Jim goes to Barbara for info, because that always turns out well

-OMG OMG OMG THAT ABUSIVE BOYFRIEND FRAMED ALFRED FOR MURDER WHAAAT HE KILLED HIS GIRLFRIEND AND THEN FRAMED ALFRED NOOO AND THE GIRL WAS SO SWEET OH MAN ALFRED IS GONNA BE DESTROYED OH GOSH HE JUST WANTED TO HELP

-IF JIM THINKS FOR ONE SECOND THAT ALFRED ACTUALLY DID THIS I'LL PUNCH HIM IN THE FACE

-I AM SO ANGRY RIGHT NOW

-OKAY I THINK JIM IS GONNA TRY TO HELP HIM

-WAIT ALFRED JUST PEACED OUT THE HECK IF THEY WERE GONNA TAKE HIM TO THE STATION ON SUSPICION OF MURDER WHY WEREN'T THEY GUARDING HIM. WHY DIDN'T THEY PUT HIM IN HANDCUFFS. IDIOTS

-aww Butch still loves Tabby

-BAHAHAHAHA I'M CRYING ED IS NOW LEE'S HYPE MAN MAKES UP INTRODUCTORY RIDDLES FOR HER LOL

-JIM'S FACE WHEN HE SEES THAT LEE IS THE DOC

-LOL ED CREEPS UP ON JIM AND STARTLES THE HECK OUT OF HIM

Jim: I should bust you right now

Ed: yeah yeah whatevs look your ex is awesome and I'm on her side now surprise

Jim: someone hired krank the toymaker to kill her

Ed: Krank? That is sooo Gotham

BAHAHAHAHAHA

-I love Jim and I love Lee and the angst between them now hurts so bad but...I don't see them getting back together and marrying...because Jim can be a knucklehead and Lee doesn't have patience for that. UGH WHYYY. maybe it will be this bittersweet thing where they will always be good friends and remember what might have been...or years and years and years down the road they might marry...but not now :(

-lol Ed in the background like um guys I am standing right here? Maybe don't talk about me like I'm in another room? Lol

-btw what is up with Ed's hair xD

-waaaaaait a second....

-OMG ALFRED IS GONNA MURDER THE KILLER BOYFRIEND OH NO HE IS OUTNUMBERED

-HELL YES!!! HARVEY TO THE RESCUE!!!!!!!! SORRY IT TOOK HIM SO LONG HE WAS IN THE JOHN

-Harvey: I love bar-tending, it involves two of my favorite things--drinking and ignoring people

HARVEY THAT'S NOT HOW THAT WORKS

-BLESS YOU THOUGH HARVEY I LOVE YOU THABKS FOR SAVING ALFRED'S BACON

-OH GEE IVY IS SUPER DANGEROUS NOW AND SUPER CRAZY

-OH BOY OH MAN OH GOSH YUP ED'S ALTER EGO THE RIDDLER HIRED THE GUY TO KILL LEE I SHOULD HAVE KNOWN

-JIM SHOWS UP TO SAVE ED BUT ED'S A STRESSED MESS AND HONESTLY THE WHOLE LONE WOLF THING SOUNDS DUMB AND JIM IS LIKE HUH YOU SURE ABOUT THAT

-OF ALL THE BEER HALLS IN THE CITY, HUH? (I love Harvey so much) aww he is drinking to the lady with Alfred my heart

-NOOOOOOOOO JIM AND HARVEY NOOO

Jim: I've missed you

Harvey: well I haven't missed you. Haven't missed begging you not to do something just to watch you go ahead and do it anyway. Haven't missed watching you bang Falcone's daughter while she uses you to get rid of Penguin

Alfred: *shifting in his seat* THIS IS SO AWKWARD

-UGH HARVEY IS LIKE YOU DON'T WANT ME AS A COP YOU WANT SOMEONE TO CONFESS TO YOU WANT ME TO BE YOUR PRIEST

AND JIM IS LIKE...HOW ABOUT ALL THOSE THINGS AND A FRIEND *HANGS HEAD IN SADNESS*

ALFRED CONTINUES TO DRINK AND WISH HE WAS ANYWHERE ELSE

LOOK THERE IS ANGST AND THERE IS ANGST AND I AM DONE WITH SOME OF THEM GIMME THE HARVEY/JIM BROTP BACK I MISS MY BROTHER COPS

-IN CONCLUSION ALFRED AND BRUCE ARE STILL ON THE OUTS AND SO ARE JIM AND HARVEY EVERYTHING HURTS

[thepilgrimgeek]

Does the Joker Need an Origin Story? Minor Spoilers for Joker (Part the Second)

Within the Batman mythos, there has been an often returned to theme: Batman and the Joker are two interwoven pieces whose relationship is perpetual in its conflict, if not symbiotic in its necessity. As of late, particularly in the work of Scott Snyder, the Joker carries an infatuation with Batman, sometimes akin to that of an unrequited lover. The Joker and Batman are portrayed as two sides of the same coin and one does not exist without the other. Sometimes this is taken a step further: Batman and the Joker are so similar that Batman is always teetering on the edge of becoming the Joker. For a portrayal that is more on the nose, I direct you to The Batman Who Laughs, created by Snyder in the miniseries Dark Nights: Metal. The common theme often employed in recent history is that the Joker and Batman have more in common than they have in contrast. Those contrasts may be significant (Batman does not kill, and lives a by a code), but as the Joker tries to illustrate in Alan Moore’s The Killing Joke, Batman may only be one bad day from becoming his arch nemesis.

Yet what separates Batman from the Joker, and furthermore what separates all of the rogues’ gallery from the Clown Prince, is a well known and canonized backstory. The presence of an origin story is noticeably lacking in the Joker’s history. Several versions have been portrayed in comics, but the Joker of Batman canon confesses he does not remember his history the same way each time and prefers multiple choice. And here lies the rub with equating the Joker as Batman’s darkest potentiality.  Batman is in many ways a noir hero. He is a protagonist pursuing righteousness in the midst of a corrupt world that feeds off of itself. In the spirit of films such as The Maltese Falcon or pulp characters such as The Shadow, the Dark Knight faces the forces of oppression and malevolence that plague Gotham City when no one else will. And Batman recognizes the humanity and loss of many of his own foes as well. Every foe Batman faces has an origin story that turns them into a tragic or sympathetic villain. Mr. Freeze is motivated by finding a cure for his chronically ill wife; Poison Ivy is an environmental scientist and activist turned mutated eco-terrorist; even the Riddler is sympathetic in the way his obsession with puzzles plays out in his pathology. None of these villains are ever killed by Batman because he fundamentally believes each of them has the potential for redemption. He is familiar with their origins. And each villain has traits that reflect Batman’s own. The Scarecrow weaponizes fear in the same fashion as Batman. Ras Al’Ghul acts with a certain sense of extreme, purifying justice. 

However, the Joker shares none of these traits. The Joker does not reflect a piece of Batman back on himself. He does not have an origin story that stirs up Batman’s sympathies. Instead, the Joker stands as the presence of meaningless chaos in Gotham City. The Joker remains a mysterious force rather than a humanized person. It is his role as an “agent of chaos” that pushes Batman’s convictions to its limits. He has no end goal or motivation like the rest of Batman’s rogues’ gallery. The Clown Prince of Crime is not even motivated by something as simple as wealth or conventional power. He only wants to rob the world of any structure. If he has any motivation, it has been his obsession with Batman (something developed more in recent history by Scott Snyder). The Joker is reminiscent of the character of Satan in the book of Job. In Alan Moore’s The Killing Joke, the Joker is the one who looks at Batman’s righteousness and says “All it takes is one bad day to reduce the sanest man alive to lunacy. That's how far the world is from where I am. Just one bad day.” It was with this framework in mind that I admit I walked into Todd Philips’ Joker with a some skepticism. It seems to me that the creation of an origin story for the Joker undermines the Joker’s very role in the Batman canon, and it is unwise to stir up too much sympathy for a villain whose sole role is to sow chaos. Imagine my apprehension when Philips appeared to go the extra mile in Joker by taking the Joker/Batman equation to an unprecedented extreme: the revelation that Arthur Fleck was Thomas Wayne’s illegitimate son. The Joker and Batman are brothers. It is a narrative choice that I’m sure made many fanboys squeal with anticipation. The greatest hero/villain relationship in modern history is now a horrible, secret family affair. In this rendition, the Joker is who he is because the esteemed Wayne family has a dark secret. 

The revelation is muddied when Fleck steals his mother’s case file from Arkham Asylum, which confirms Thomas Wayne’s claim that Fleck’s mother is mentally ill, and that she adopted Fleck and exposed him to her abusive boyfriend. Penny Fleck then tells her son that Thomas Wayne used his money to fabricate the documents to cover up their affair. Who to believe? The thread of delusion and unreliable narration on the part of Arthur Fleck runs strong, but the question still remains. Are he and Batman brothers?  In one of the film’s most eerie scenes, Arthur Fleck converses with a young Bruce Wayne through the front gate of Wayne Manor. Both are wearing yellow coats, and Fleck tries to make Bruce smile. He even going so far as to force smile on the boys face with his thumbs through the bars of the gate, which is a great allusion to the times Joker has painted smiling faces on Batman’s image throughout comic book history.  In the end, the subject of Arthur Fleck’s parentage becomes irrelevant, even in his own mind. He murders his mother, then kills Murray the late night host (who holds some place as a father figure in Fleck’s mind). Joker is born of Arthur Fleck’s abandoning of any sense of origin. I wonder if Philips is aware that at the end of the day, the origin of the Joker is not the point of the character, but the chaos and mayhem he incites for sheer hedonistic pleasure.

In the movie’s final scene, the Wayne family exits a movie theater in the midst of the riot. They are confronted in an alley by a man in a clown mask. In a moment comic book readers and movie goers have seen time and again, Thomas and Martha Wayne are shot dead, and their son Bruce is the only survivor. Joker ends with Batman’s origin story. Yet Philips chooses to take a degree of creative license with this iconic scene. It is comic book canon that the Waynes were murdered on their way home from a movie theater. In the canonical version of this story, the movie on the marquee is 1940’s The Mark of Zorro. However, in Joker the movie on the marquee is the 1981 comedy Zorro: The Gay Blade. Rather than showing the film that clearly influences the very imagery of Batman, Philips chooses to replace that reference with the farcical satire.

Are we, the audience, meant to realize we just sat through a farce? Did Todd Philips create some parody which asks “Does the Joker’s origin matter?”  Feel free to tweet or comment below! Thank you for reading my two-part reflection on Todd Philips’ Joker. in case you missed it, here is Part 1! Have thoughts or reactions? Think I’m reading too much into the movie? Have any suggestions for “Minor Spoilers”? Leave it in the comments below or email me at thepilgrimgeekblog@gmail.com. Read the full article