#in fact i agree with Shoji more than Spinner

[codenamesazanka]

I feel for Shoji. I really do. And I get where Shoji is coming from.

Shoji doesn’t have seemed to forgive his town, only let go of his resentment. Shoji wants to make the world better. Shoji understands the anger and pain the heteromorphs feel, he doesn’t at all deny their feelings or experiences; he only wants them to channel it into something less chaotic and more productive. He doesn’t want anyone to get hurt, and he knows neither do the rioters. He’s got an eye out for how heteromorphs will be represented and portrayed, and it’s a somber, realistic take.

Most of all, though, he’s not trying to solve the discrimination issue, he’s just trying to stop the rioters, especially because he cannot afford to let the revolt be exploited by a Demon King trying to usher in a thousand years of darkness. What can be said in a situation like that? If I was in his shoes, trying to find a way to stop a revolt, I don’t know if I can. I’ll probably resort to rhetoric too, appealing to emotion. Please stop. This is a hospital. There could be collateral damage. No one wants that.

(This argument probably would’ve worked better if it didn’t seemed like such an underhanded move by the Heroes. The facts are:

Kurogiri is at Central Hospital. He has to be there because it seems that’s the only place they can do recovery research on him.

Heroes knew AFO will try to retrieve Kurogiri.

Heroes knew about a “call to action,” that a group of heteromorphs are going after the hospital.

They knew the hospital will be targeted by the riot specifically because Kurogiri is held there—

But for some reason they decided not to move Kurogiri elsewhere and make AFO redirect the mob, now nor they they decided to evacuate the hospital despite having days beforehand to do so.

Perhaps the Heroes underestimated the number of heteromorphs that would join in the fight. They can point out Kurogiri is in the Research Building that’s separate from the Patient Ward so maybe the mob would spare that part of the hospital. They can even say the Heroes were hoping the heteromorphs would refrain from attacking the hospital because they trusted in the heteromorphs’ better natures, which is nice of them! But, objectively, planning-for-worst-case-scenario-ly, goal-is-minimizing-the-amount-of-damage-ly, this-probably-won’t-happen-but-let’s-be-extra-careful-ly they really wanted to risk that? Apparently they did.)

But Shoji’s words still ultimately fall flat for me because he’s not actually proposing any change at all, not a hint of it. The rioters are there because they want something, anything to change. Shoji essentially tells them to endure nobly, without promising anything will be different at all. He’s just a kid, sure, he can’t make any promises, but unfortunately he is a Hero student (soldier) representative of the establishment. When he took up that mantle, he’s gotta answer for the system that had promised it would protect and save its all citizens but failed to do so. (In fact they might have enabled viewing heteromorphs as more Villainous.)

What happened 30 years ago? Did the massacres finally stop? The massacres that happened because non-heteromorphs felt like it, they felt uncomfortable around heteromorphs? Fast-forward to now-ish, and villages are still tormenting their heteromorphic citizens because they feel uncomfortable. I guess that’s improvement, because Shoji, Spinner, and PLF Speech Guy aren’t dead. But the scars left on Shoji and PLF Speech Guy are on their faces, their heads; the people that hurt them seemed to have felt free enough to not care about head injuries or leaving eternally visible scars that reminds them of what they did. The moment society collapsed after Jaku, all that old latent hatred came back. All Ordinary Woman wanted was safe shelter and was denied that over and over again. What on earth has ‘not being avengers’ done? The core of their bigotry and the unspoken allowance to unleash that remains.

(I saw a Japanese tweet that observed how a system that allows shelters to refuse heteromorphs probably means there are no laws that prohibit heteromorph discrimination in the [HeroAca] world. Makes sense, especially if you consider that these are government-and-Hero-schools-run shelters, as Best Jeanist proposed? Maybe there are also private shelters, but Ordinary Woman said she went to several and all of them rejected heteromorphs and there has to be at least one government-and-Hero-schools-run shelter in those attempts.)

I’m not saying the heteromorphs should rampage and destroy a hospital and be avengers - and in the end, they didn’t! It’s just Heroes gotta give them a promise of change, to especially if the Heroes believed in the mob’s core inner goodness. The heteromorphs are doing their part; what exactly are the Heroes giving back?

Overall, things are framed as inspiring when it really isn’t, and i really think the manga should acknowledge how Heroes risked the lives in the hospital either out of hopeful but calculated strategy or astoundingly stupid incompetence. And give the heteromorphs at least one solid promise of change.

[transhawks]

Spinner screaming I don't care at Shouji as the other tried to engage him an actual conversation about being heteromorphs and what the plan was for them is not....positive growth. Where is the Shuuichi who grabbed Tomura by the collar and demanded answers because he was there for a reason and that being what was done to him?!

He became this?! This?!

You think this is okay because he's doing it for a friend? Bby boys and girls and nonbinaries, the mangaka ain't agreeing with that.

Does this look like something someone who cares about a friend should do?

Like if you think discarding all previously held beliefs in favor of giving up autonomy and sense of self for another person is friendship, congratulations bitch, you're mentally ill in a very cluster B way, and I'll warn you lamictal made my ass sleepy.

Horikoshi isn't subtle lmao.

You know what he sees when he turns back?!

No one. Shuuichi is ALONE. ABANDONED. HE HAS NO ALLIES. The friend he's doing this for is possessed by a hundred and fifty your old maniac who thinks life is a comic book and Spinner is simply helping him at this point. Like you think Spinner doesn't know that he's not getting Tomura back? Of course he's denying it because to reconcile with it means to reconcile that every thing he loved about Tomura since Deika had been hurting Tomura and shouldn't have been adored.

Also, Horikoshi isn't drawing empty fucking corridors because he likes sharp lines and shading in shit.

"Shoji must have gotten through to them".

Honestly, sometimes the story beats you with the fact things are wrong. I've shown that in stuff regarding Hawks's murder of Jin and that was STILL more subtle than whatever the fuck this is. None of this is good or helped and fuck if it's not heartbreaking to see what Spinner turned himself into.

Yeah, what HE turned himself into. Because ultimately he did let AFO do this to him. You think Spinner couldn't have walked away? I think he could have. You think Spinner couldn't have asked Dabi and Toga what to do? I think he could have, because those two are just not even engaging with what's happening to Tomura and maybe seeing them like that could have really spelt it out for Spinner that somewhere all of this had gone deeply wrong.

There's no positivity here. This is a tragedy. It's meant to be read like one. Spinner adores his friend for the traits and wishes of his that are a direct result of his trauma and grooming. Spinner finds inspiration in actions that only served to rob Tomura of free will. Spinner contributed to that. Spinner let someone turn him into the thing he kept begging people to understand he wasn't - a monster because it stopped mattering as much to him as Tomura. This isn't good.

Seriously. This is why I was holding my tongue for months about all of this and not engaging with people obsessed with Spinner's relationship with Tomura. I don't understand why people can't clearly see how fucked up this all is and it makes me really frightened of how many of you live your lives for other people to the point of self-destruction and think that's healthy or normal.

[violetlunette]

I really dont like the recent chapters. Which sucks cause i like these concepts and tropes!

The lack of world building and discrimination as a tangible thing is the story screwed Shoji and Spinner over. Especially since both of their stories been foreshadowed since the very beginning but the lack of build up and focus around them makes the pay off feel unearned and shoved in.

Shoji's arguements make no sense, Spinner can't even coherently oppose him since he's under AfO grasp. It doesnt show or provide anything. We didn't know before hand the abuse heteromorphs face was inconsistant in the city compared to the countryside (which feels like a copout to me) nor were we ever shown the characters questioning any form of discrimination and actively doing something about it in a broader societal sense.

It feels so underdeveloped despite apparently being a core part of the worldbuilding.

Speaking of discrimination, what about the quirkless? What about those with weak quirks? Why is it focusing only on Heteromorphs? What about the broader implication of that discrimination? What would happen to others under AfO's new rule? Why is it exclusively a city and country thing? If defeating Spinner is defeating his arguements then why isnt he present for it?

Not to mention, what about the current system? Why have we not seen the systemic issues be challenged or change and only get a brief mention? Why have Spinner be unable to counter Shoji's weak arguements? Why bring AfO into it at all? (aside from what he was offering)

You know the longer im writing this the more i wonder WHY AFO?

The meta liberation army represented these themes much better and there would be a more concrete focus on why what theyre doing is wrong for everyone (ie changing who the aggressor is rather than addressing factors that limit them)

AfO has no connection to this, aside from beneffiting him. AfO being involved cheapens it since because of him Spinner can't respond! Hell combine with him possessing Shigaraki it feels more of 'AfO is the root and cause of all the problems' rather than 'AfO is exploiting the problems the heroes themselves cause' since the heroes apparently aren't aware of those problems or are tackling them.

Sorry if this sounds incoherent. I like AfO as a villain and him possessing Shigaraki is still neat, but i feel like the way/when of it isnt the best executed. I dont know how to word it without going to another long ramble, but the short version is i feel like the league members should have been more opposed to the whole possession thing and have more imput into the situation before majority where killed or incompacitated. But that may just be me.

Welcome back, Longy! (Hope that's you. If not, hello Longy 2.)

I agree with several points here! I think a lot of these come from the fact Hori’s a plotter, not a pantser. For those unaware, a plotter—aside from being someone who schemes—is a type of writer who needs to plan the whole story out before writing. A pantster--aside from being a mischievous asshole who pulls people’s pants down—is a writer who writes by the seat of their pants. Meaning, they figure things out as they go along with only the bare basics to guide them. Hori seems to fall into the former. Everything that he planned since the beginning seems to be flowing smoothly. Like with All Might’s arc; that was planned out since the beginning, and there wasn’t a lot of change to it, so it all connects together smoothly. Meanwhile, things he was forced to change or suddenly add feel rocky and out of place. For example—just pick an arc that feels weird to you. That was probably suddenly added or changed. (Trust me, you’ll know what this is. As I stated previously, human brains are programmed to follow stories. That’s why plot holes, or things that don’t fit, irk us so.) And now Hori’s being forced to rush things, so he’s trying to force it all in, but there’s no time, so it’s clunky. It doesn’t help that these are subjects that he doesn’t have experience writing, as evident from his previous works. Hori does have interesting ideas; Shoji’s conflict and backstory are interesting (though they should have been introduced before the climax, that's for when the manga's done). And having Spinner become a monster was also good. It was supposed to demonstrate how All for One corrupts desperate people and twists them along with the things they once valued. However, he didn’t have enough time to sit with it and plan it out, so it was hurried and sloppy. As with several points of this story.

Personally, I believe that if was able to plot out the entire series and write it before publishing, we would have gotten a better story. But sadly, as a mangaka, you can’t do that. That profession requires pantser skills where you have to adapt in an instance to every little thing in context and meta-wise. Fans like a character you were going to make an asshole, or suddenly got the urge to write said character in a different light? Then you have to make up a new arc and fit it smoothly into the story on the dot. People don’t like a character who was going to be a major player? Gotta either figure out how to fix him or kick him to the wayside. The plot point doesn’t match up, shoot gotta fix it, and so on. That’s why a lot of manga characters are pretty simple to start off with and the stories are in smaller arcs with a VERY simple overarching arc to tie them together. (Such as there's a great evil that the heroes want to stop, or they're looking for a lost treasure.) It’s unfortunate, but that’s how it is. I really wish we got to read the version where Hori was able to take his time and plan everything out but once the manga became popular, that wasn’t going to happen.