#in lotr it's mostly frodo and boromir's characters I have an issue with so far

[capisback]

watching adaptations of books can be a very tense experience because even if they did it well, they are bound to change things because of the nature of adaptations and you're not always going to agree with what they did. the number of times I've gone "from a storytelling standpoint, I can completely understand why they changed it, I'm just not sure I agree with the changes" is crazy

[loopy777]

In terms of quality, would you agree that both of the first movies of the lotr trilogy and the hobbit one were the best by far?

Fellowship was the only one of the lotr movies where i didnt have some huge beef with changes to Tolkien's themes and story i absolutely hated(In fact i would say their elegant solution to removing Tom bombafil and just have Aragorn have the knives of Westernesse at hand to give was probably the best change from the books the movies ever had(though they really needed to explain the signifigance of those blades in some way), and the way it choose to take what worked from Bakshi's opening and made it better was a stroke of brilliance.).

and as for an unexpected Journey, while having some really stupid moments(The rabbit sled, the inclusion of Azog when the actual Orc villain should have been bolg, the slapstick cgi tone of the escape from the tunnels, the choice to make the stone giants literal stone giants whrn they were supposed to be another flesh and blood race in the univetse) it also managed to capture the tone of what a Hobbit movie should be, a more fantastical, whimsical adventure and yet clearly in the style of the LOTR trilogy, and it actually made the dwarves into somewhat memorable characters, with a real relationship eith bilbo(The scene where befor and bilbo talk about home is probably the single best scene of the entire trilogy, and the climax, even if Azog's role in the first part of the movie(and the role really should been Bolg's) undermines it, is a great way to end the movie off while also building in what the hobbit story needed to improve on(the relationship between bilbo and the dwarves).

I have a lot of issues with both the second and third movies that follow(The hobbit movies much moreso) but i generally think the first movies in each trilogy are absolutely great. Easily on par with the books they're adapting(literaily the only thing that could have made fellowship better would be to include Earendil was a marines, Furin's song, and lament for boromir). Which is far less than i can say for their sequels.

But what do you think? Do you disagree? Think Two towers, or return of the king was the best? Or maybe that im insane for actually loving An unexpected journey? That the first movie was smart to avoid including even Tolkien's best songs?

No, you're entirely correct!

I've long felt this way, even judging them solely as movies and not adaptations. Structurally, they feel more complete, and being their respective introductions to the stories, they also feel more like real movies. The others just jump into things while also trying to remind you what's going on, and I feel like that's always a rocky way of bringing the audience into the movie magic. Jackson's use of prologues was a good attempt to resolve that, but it was a trick of limited effectiveness.

Fellowship benefits from being the strongest of the novels, too, IMO. Frodo's character arc is a solid backbone, so much so that Two Towers just switches to Sam as the protagonist of that subplot, and I always felt like TT and RotK were divided in a kind of arbitrary manner. The closest thing to arcs in TT are Saruman's defeat and Frodo getting to Mordor, but neither of those is a character arc. It's weak enough that Jackson had trouble figuring out wither to delineate things and changed his mind after the initial decision.

But with Fellowship, I agree that Jackson mostly made great choices. I understand Tolkien's reasons for including Tom Bombadil, and I don't begrudge his artistic intent, but that part even reads differently from the rest of the story. It sticks out oddly, and any adaptation would be perfectly justified in skipping it. Likewise, bringing in Arwen early is something Tolkien should have done, and the method chosen is efficient. Throwing in the funeral of Boromir is likewise a good choice to wrap up his role and the dynamics of the Fellowship. Every choice strengthened the narrative, and like you say, nothing damaged the themes or meaning. I admit I think the Lothlorien sequence is superior in the Extended Edition, with putting less into building the false tension around Galadriel, but it's a harmless crime, and I always watch the Extended version anyway.

I will say that one possible complaint about the whole trilogy -- Gimli being too much of a comic relief character -- is indeed very present in Fellowship, but it's not a complaint I ever felt very strongly about. I like comic relief characters, and he does get to show bravery and competence, which is what's critical.

In contrast, my biggest complaint about the movie trilogy is probably what was done with the Ents' arc in Two Towers; like Galadriel, it adds a false bit of tension that isn't needed. And in RotK, while I think it's a quality performance, I'm not fond of the changes made to Denethor's character. And I'm of the (I think rare?) opinion that the Extended Edition of RotK is inferior to the theatrical cut. It's a crime that Saruman wasn't dealt with in TT, but throwing it onto the beginning of RotK feels very odd, and I think that whole sequence is cut and assembled poorly. And the extra stuff in the Paths of the Dead sequence was time-wasting nonsense. I'm okay with the Mouth of Sauron sequence, but I admit it's largely unnecessary. The one good point is the Houses of Healing, as otherwise I don't think Eowyn and Faramir complete their character arcs. I will praise RotK for nailing the climax of the main plotlines, though, and I've never agreed with the "too many endings" criticism, but for the shortest book of the trilogy, I feel like a lot of good stuff was left out. Perhaps we could have done with less battling.

As for The Hobbit trilogy, I especially agree on actually liking An Unexpected Journey. Sure, the LotR-tie-in stuff didn't need to be there, and it really turned the escape from the mountains and wargs into a slog, but otherwise I agree that it feels fun and whimsical, and at least they used the changes to build up the character arcs for Bilbo and Thorin and their relationship. This movie keeps things moving at a good pace, and you do indeed get the best character stuff, while there's also a lot of the Tolkien original in there, including large bits of dialogue. I even liked the slapstick chase! XD I actually think that making the violence more cartoony and less realistic helps separate it in tone from LotR to the movie's benefit, and I think it's quality cartoonish-ness. (But I also like the Barrel Ride portion of the next film and all that ridiculousness, even though I do think it clashes tonally with most of the rest of the movie, so maybe I just have bad taste in this stuff. XD) The book is not a story of war, it's a story of adventure- at least until the end, but then Bilbo goes to sleep for that part.

Many words have been spilled about the behind-the-scenes problems with The Hobbit trilogy, so I'll just say that agenda of expanding things really hit the latter two movies the hardest. I don't know if that directly contributed to completely fumbling the tone and intent of the stuff that was actually taken from the books (I weep for the Beorn sequence), but my understanding is that Jackson was having at least a mild breakdown over the whole project. None of the changes were improvements, aside maybe from bringing Bard in earlier, but he and the Laketown presentation really drag things away from the fun Adventure tone and more towards something that tries to be LotR-esque but fails. At least Smaug was cool, but pulling a Saruman and dying in the wrong movie did not do him any favors.

As for the matter of songs, I understand why Tolkien had them, as they don't weigh down giant dry novels, but throwing them randomly into non-musical movies would have felt very odd. I think LotR had the best compromise where the songs are incorporate into Howard Shore's score. Sadly, the same care was not taken with The Hobbit; I think those scores were among of the casualties of the pivot to being as much like LotR as possible, even for An Unexpected Journey.

Hm, perhaps the whole The Hobbit trilogy should have been reworked as a musical, adding songs from Tolkien's other works, making it as cartoony as possible. That would have expanded things a bit, maybe almost enough for three movies.

[morwensteelsheen]

If Faramir went to Rivendell, how would the whole ttt/rohan plot be different?

A good question that I have spent an unreasonable time thinking about! My first LOTR fic was going to be an attempt to answer this, but then I got so wrapped up in not having the answers that I sidelined it and wrote WC instead. So I think instead of giving you one definitive answer I’ll give you a couple scenarios I think are plausible? If that’s not too much of a cop out lmao? Apologies in advance for the inevitable spelling errors, I did this on my phone and my dyslexia is off the charts today.

I think it’s basically unavoidable that he goes via Rohan first, geographically he’s sort of left without an option there. When he’s there, we get into this issue of whether and how he and Éowyn interact. Worth noting, I think, that the Unfinished Tales has Éomer living in Aldburg by the War, but Éomer does seem to imply he’s around for Boromir passing through. Is this because he knows and already is a fan of Boromir? Maybe! Or maybe Éomer goes to Aldburg after.

But I digress. We have to ask the question of whether Faramir falls in love with Éowyn because he was always going to fall in love with Éowyn, or if it’s because the things he’s gone through immediately preceding it primed him for it. I — perhaps quite cheaply — come down on the side of Faramir always having it bad for her on first sight. And contextually I think that comes from his, rather sweet, enunciation of the way his regard/love changes for her. He says that at first he pities her, and then he gets to know her and he doesn’t pity her anymore, he respects and admires her. That’s an interesting dynamic to bring into play in basically every AU, because you get this double barrel characterisation of his attitude to her changing, and his own character maturing/sharp edges softening.

I think he off the bat he sees that she’s beautiful, and immediately is drawn to her for that. Shallow? Maybe! But, to badly paraphrase my ol fav Victor Hugo quote — love always begins with a glance.

I imagine he stays for a short while, maybe a week, two at most. At this point I think that Éowyn’s basically viewing him as an official guest that she has to entertain, and I think Faramir is, in his own, slightly stilted, slightly wanky way, putting the moves on her. This can go, imo, one of two ways. She can either be receptive to it (which is a nice thought!) or she can be aware of it but mostly ignore it because, really, she’s got lots of shit on her plate.

Either way, he leaves Edoras at some point. The big question is where does his go from there?

One thing I toy around with is that, given his pre-existing relationship to Gandalf, maybe he’s willing to trust the Istari a bit more and goes straight for Isengard? Which, and I think I did the math on this once a few months ago, would have him arriving at Isengard around the time Gandalf’s getting his shit kicked in by Saruman lol. I think this could be a really compelling plot point, but I’ll be very honest with you, I 100% don’t have the imagination or writing skills to figure out how it proceeds from there, so I’m not going to try to.

If he goes the normal Boromir route, he still loses his horse at Tharbad and walks (lmao jesus???) to Rivendell. When he gets there, I think he’s immediately going to have everything he knows put to the test in quite jarring ways. First off, he’s going to be infinitely more deferential to Elrond, Aragorn &c when they’re trashing Gondor. He’ll push back a bit, no doubt on that, but he’s going to be starstruck by Aragorn in a way that Boromir just wasn’t.

No real difference I imagine between Rivendell and Lothlórien, except that he’d definitely be laser focused on palling about with Aragorn, and he’d probably spend more of his time being friendly with Frodo than with Merry and Pippin tbh (not in a douchey way, I just think he and Frodo vibe a little better. Though I bet he and Merry had some interesting chats about pipe weed history).

The underlying question here is what sort of relationship does he have to the ring? I don’t buy this idea that he’s not tempted by it, I just think that what the ring offers him is a bit shit. We don’t know what the ring tempts him with, he’s not clear on that in TTT. I can’t really see the ring being like ‘oh I’ll give you a king to follow’ because that is some intensely nerdy shit, but is somehow the one thing I could see Faramir actually being tempted by. Regardless of what it offers him in this AU, he resists it on the basis that he’s got this mythical king he’s been desperate for, and he’s not gonna risk that for anything.

Lothlórien comes next, and oh my god when I tell you this is the part I genuinely have no answer for. I stopped writing my first fic at Lothlórien because I couldn’t cope. Tbh it probably lowkey fries Faramir’s brain, and for so many reasons. The whole godmoding Númenórean stuff he’s got going on probably interests Galadriel a bit, and so that whole conversation is going to be wildly different than it was for Boromir. But what does she say to Faramir? I have no idea. I really don’t. There’s also probably a million and one things also going on psychologically for him at that point, which makes dealing with this bit difficult. Really difficult. So I’m gonna, uh, conveniently smash cut away.

Parth Galen! Again, another two potential splits here. The first, (from here on out I’ll refer to as Plot A) which I find rather endearing, is that he goes off with Frodo and Sam when Frodo makes the decision to split. I don’t know that I believe he’d do it, but it proves for a very delightful interpretation of his character.

Plot B is that when the Orcs show up, Faramir survives not by virtue of his being a ~ better warrior ~ or whatever than Boromir, but by the terrain surrounding Parth Galen being something he’s far more in the habit of dealing with, and by virtue of his having a bow at his disposal. I know there’s room for an interpretation of Faramir as not primarily an archer, but narratively I think that’s less interesting. So he’s an archer. He’s an archer and also his priority is on Aragorn first and foremost, so Merry and Pip still get taken, and Frodo and Sam use the hubbub to GTFO, which is actually slightly more in line with the movie’s chronology, funnily enough. The three hunters become four, and then go on Merry & Pippin’s trails.

In Plot A, they’re hauling ass across the Emyn Muil, bolstered in some ways by Faramir’s experience as a Ranger. The problem is the issue of getting into Mordor and whether or not they pick up Gollum. I think, in a way that frustrates me immensely, they do end up taking Gollum, not because they need a guide, but because Gollum fulfils this deep psychological need for Frodo, and I think he would have argued for keeping Gollum regardless. Faramir is going to be fucked off about this, but will ultimately, I think, be deferential to the ringbearer.

So they go across the Dead Marshes, but they do NOT attempt the Black Gate first because Faramir’s not a fool. Do they go to Henneth Annûn? I say yes, but with the caveat that in all likelihood Boromir is gonna be there, which is gonna complicate stuff tremendously.

Over to Plot B!

The four hunters go to the Mark! They meet Éomer! Hey! Éomer recognises Faramir! (And he’s probably a little fucked off that he lost his horse lol). But whatever, he knows this guy, so he’s probably gonna be like, uhhh, everything you saw before in Edoras is much worse now. Also my cousin's dead and everything is bad. Here’s some horses, sorry for maybe accidentally killing your pals, see ya! And at this point I think Faramir’s probably having a, hmmm, g e n t l e  p s y c h i c  c r i s i s, because if he’s still very 👅 for Éowyn (which he is, sorry, he has to be) then he’s going to want to go there ASAP. Obviously though that’s not gonna happen, so: Merry and Pip chasing, Gandalf finding, Edoras arriving.

Which means Éowyn. If, at this point, she and Faramir already have something of an arrangement going on (nudge nudge) then she’s really not gonna give a shit about Aragorn. You know how in TTT it’s not even clear that she actually sees Legolas and Gimli? 100% that vibe with Aragorn too. Théoden’s gonna get his house in order, they’re going to head to Helm’s Deep, and Éowyn’s gonna get named head of house. (Faramir, if he starts off just thinking she’s beautiful, is going to have quite the paradigm shift here, because he’s going to have to start reckoning with her as not just a beautiful woman, but as a very, very intense person. This is how his love for her starts to mature.)

Sometimes I dream about him being like, ‘hey! I have some first hand experience of ruling a kingdom, how about I stay and…….. lend you a hand……..’ to Éowyn while she’s keeping watch on Edoras. This is wildly unlikely, but a delightful thought nonetheless. In the more likely case, which is that he goes to the Hornburg, she’s going to start feeling some strain about this whole war shebang, and it’s going to lead to some difficult conversations. Chief among them is that Faramir, as second son, actually has basically nothing to give her, which is not exactly a great position to be in when you’re in love with the niece of a king. I’m of the opinion that Éowyn’s not fussed by that stuff (she agrees to marry him when he’s prepping to give up a shit ton of power anyways), so she’s probably like, 'no, fuck you, we’re getting married.' And then he leaves, and it starts to emotionally unsettle her more and more.

If they don’t already have a thing, then it either begins at this point OR he gets overshadowed by Aragorn. In either case, off to Helm’s Deep he goes.

Helm’s Deep happens, I think Faramir ends up extraordinarily impressed by how the Rohirrim handle the Dunlenders afterwards, which also begins to soften his harsh opinion of them more generally.

They go to Isengard, Pippin looks in the Palantír, and away Pippin and Gandalf go. Both Gandalf and Faramir here would recognise that it would be batshit insane for Faramir to go back to MT now, because Denethor would read him like a picture book and he’d have to admit to the entire mission of the Fellowship.

Over in Plot A, I think we’re going to have some real emotional complexity vis a vis Faramir showing up at Henneth Annûn with two hobbits, a ring, and Boromir in control there. God, it would just be a disaster. My incredibly generous interpretation of this is that Faramir keeps the plan vague enough that Boromir lets them pass unhindered. My less generous interpretation is… yeah I don’t wanna do it tbh. It’s not pretty. It's also, to be clear: not an indictment of Boromir as a character. His response is entirely rational for someone expected to lead a kingdom and for someone put up against the unbelievable power of the One Ring. The reason Faramir continuously gets to pass largely untempted by the ring is because he's a guy with no actual responsibilities once you take the Rangers away. His understanding of his duty to Gondor is almost entirely conceptual in nature. He can think and talk about defending Gondor as it once was because there are several people above him in the hierarchy defending Gondor for what it is. This is also not an indictment of Faramir. He and Boromir just have wildly different realities to contend with.

They are going to go through Cirith Ungol even though Tweedle Dee and Tweedle Dumbass both speak Sindarin and don’t cotton on to what its name implies lol. This whole scene is much shorter because Faramir’s significantly more cautious, so there is no Orc capture and Sam doesn't take the Ring. This is where things get a bit complex, and where I don’t think I have the imagination to say much more. Sorry!

Back in Plot B, the lads catch up with Éowyn as they prep to go down the Paths of the Dead. If she and Faramir are a thing, this is where the real emotional distress kicks in for her. All of the men in her life have, at one point or another, functionally abandoned her, and here’s Faramir, love of her life, about to do the exact same thing. Faramir inevitably goes with the Grey Company even though she begs him not to. When she tries to convince them not to go down the Paths at all, he is in the fortunate enough position to throw up his hands and say 'not my call, actually. King’s in charge,' which lessens the emotional conflict there somewhat.

No part of me doubts that Éowyn wouldn’t then immediately go over his head to Aragorn. She would, she absolutely does not give a fuck. And she’s going to get knocked back re: joining them in exactly the same way as in the book, because Aragorn’s take here isn’t actually dependent on her personally, it’s dependent on the duty she’s been charged with, which is taking care of her people. (Also going to be an interesting narrative parallel to a later conversation between Faramir and Aragorn after the Pelennor, which I’ll explain in more detail later.)

Faramir will, perhaps somewhat less dismissively, say this to her. He learns much more obviously the way to talk to her on her own terms, and he’s not gonna fall into the trap of letting her be like ‘you just want me to wait and die after all the men are dead.’ He’s going to probably give her some line about her being the last organised line of defence, and he might even invoke Haleth! It’s not going to work, because Éowyn’s very aware of the apocalyptic nature of all of this, but it’s not going to cause such abject hatred and fury as it otherwise would.

If she and Faramir are not a thing, her emotional distress is as it is in the book, except now Faramir’s trying not to pout in the background. He might even step in to try and soften the blow.

Regardless, she ends up as Dernhelm, she rides to the Pelennor.

Boromir is the one responsible for the Osgiliath retreat, and because it’s heavily implied that Faramir only keeps his seat because he’s got this dumbass Númenor garbage going on ('master of man and beast' — king Beregond), Boromir’s going to get killed by the Witch king here.

This is going to send shockwaves through not just Denethor, but Minas Tirith more generally, because Boromir is fucking adored. Denethor’s going to go high holy crackers much quicker, mostly because Gandalf is a shit stirrer and is going to waste no time at all in announcing that Aragorn, The Rightful King, is on his way, and Denethor will — correctly — surmise that Faramir has chosen Aragorn over returning with whatever Isildur’s Bane is to Gondor. This is the end for Denethor.

Éowyn rides from Dunharrow, slays the Witch king. Faramir and Aragorn show up with the Army of Dead, Faramir does not end up injured, but does end up as the Steward (obviously) and (obviously) aware that Éowyn is in the HOH. And also that everybody else he loves is dead. Yeehaw.

Here’s where I think things get really interesting. I think, counter to the way this is portrayed a lot of the time, Faramir doesn’t go to the Black Gate at all. I think he stays in Minas Tirith, not just to organise the wider range defences (esp the Rohirrim dealing w the Druadan) but in this very grim preparation to lead the retreat from Minas Tirith if/when Frodo & Sam fail. I think he's kind of fine with this for two reasons. The first is that him being conscious to process the death of his father, and it coming hours after the death of his brother means that he's going to have a personal-political crisis, and he's going to have to take the defence of Gondor more seriously than he did before. Second, Aragorn's going to tell him to fucking stay put, and he's going to be fine with it because it means he's going to get to spend the last few days of his life with Éowyn.

He and Éowyn reunite in the HOH, there’s still a lot of deeply emotional stuff going on, but, at least now Faramir’s conscience is clear re: marrying her because, well, he’s the Steward now. Also their reunion is going to take on greater significance because she’ll have killed the thing that killed his brother. So, that’s a lot.

If they are not a thing before the Pelennor, she's still going to drag his ass over to the HOH so she can bitch about being stuck there. But this time he's not a fellow hospital-prisoner, he's having to actually do things, and he's going to use that to his advantage in terms of keeping her from doing stupid shit. I think he's going to try to involve her in some of the strategic questions re: the retreat if the Morannon feint fails. I think he's going to make a point of talking to her to get her help on dealing with the Rohir forces that are in and around the City. I think that's going to go a huge way to helping to ease her misery, and it's going to be such a significant vote of trust in her (even after she's done the unthinkable and deserted her people) that she's going to fall in love with him here, as per. And the contrast between him and Aragorn is going to be all the stronger for it.

So yes. Those are just some of the possibilities I think! Sorry for the word dump!!

[vardasvapors]

@berrysphase replied to your post:                   berrysphase replied to your post:                ...                

   So, perhaps oddly, I agree with your statement about the wholesale stuff as concerns the greater legendarium, but not LOTR?  In LOTR, considered within its own boundaries, I come away with the deeply uncomfortable sense that the restoration of Gondor’s kingship, the mystic strength in the true line of Elendil, the high and fading virtues of Numenor (transmitted in the germline), are all unquestioned good.  

   but in the greater legendarium all these things are complicated and much more nuanced, especially the colonialism issue re Numenor.  

   eventually there are topics I just can’t think too hard about (especially in-world Valar-related morality questions and the infernal question of Numenor and how far its colonialism is ‘justified’) or it all falls apart and I have to go lie down – I mean, there’s a lot of quicksand    

   I guess what I am saying is *hands* it would be very illuminating and interesting to hear about one of your lines! because to me they are either not clear, or only clear if I carefully avoid looking at them    

OH YEAH THAT IS A REALLY GOOD EXAMPLE. I think that would definitely qualify as a line -- in my opinion, LOTR is undermined as a story if Aragorn’s reign is Actually A Bad Thing, because the alternative-subplot that springs into existence under that reading is....uh....I guess “boring pointlessness tacked onto to a story that’s actually about Frodo etc” is a good way of putting it. But otoh the, like, Actual Lines of Dialogue The Characters Say in support of said Aragorn subplot are also.....what’s a better way of saying ‘irredeemably racist’? So it’s not like just “ignore it! it’s fantasy!” or some shit, but it IS one of those things that for me (though other people might feel totally differently) is much more satisfying to reconcile, rather than wholesale resist or overturn.

Anyway this might be making a mountain out of a molehill-sized solution, but I’m too tired to edit myself down in length so:

(uh.....before the cut....heads up i wrote this at top speed without testing for argumentative rigorousness/accuracy so.....fair warning)

Actually I think this is a much more easily fanwankable problem than some? Mostly because, imo, Aragorn’s character arc and the moral worth of his arc already HAS two alternative justifications right in canon! One is prophetic, and essentially is a 90%-blind prediction of the sequence of events that makes up the plot of LOTR. “either you will become greater than any of your ancestors since Elendil or fall into darkness with all your kin,” says Ivorwen and Elrond and Gandalf. The other is the whole Heir of Isildur renewal of the ~pure bloodline of kings bullshit, which doesn’t lend a single whit to the legitimacy of Aragorn as a person or to the readers opinion of him -- but it matters a lot to the in-universe Dunedain characters of Arnor and Gondor, including Aragorn himself. It’s the whole justification for them ushering him through the loophole and onto the throne. So I’d say, if you want to read Aragorn’s reign and arc as worthwhile - which I do too, because otherwise that subplot of LOTR is a vastly inferior and duller story at best, if not a complete and utter waste of time at worst - one could always go for the idea that the reason it has worth doesn’t need to be the same reason - the True Numenorean King stuff - that the characters of LOTR think it has worth.

Like, the first step is, LOTR’s timespan is so short. REALLY short. Substantively, one could just..pick another 6 month timespan in the legendarium, any 6 month timespan that overlaps a major political shift. or a 120 year timespan too, if you’re thinking Aragorn’s whole reign, in the Silmarillion. in the Akallabeth. in the unfinished tales. LOTR is a blip, time-wise -- it’s a personal story that intersects with the Silm-tier stuff for a brief, if pivotal, skip of time, and incorporates the brief, hindsight-less impressions of the people alive at that moment of time right into the reader’s POV, in a way that the Silm doesn’t do.

So when taking into account how limited the timeline and POV of LOTR characters are, comparatively speaking, I think of Aragorn’s crowning and the restoration of the line as not “inherently good,” but good because it happened to be the right thing at that one period of time.

I definitely think that...even the text, not just my headcanon, very strongly implies that the reason Aragorn’s king bid turned out successfully is because he lived most of his adult life with that prophecy over his head, and therefore practiced all his life to become an actually genuinely good king -- the whole bloodline/heirship stuff is just kind of...justification, in terms of personal/family/numenorean honor, and political plausible deniability -- Aragorn’s sincerely-felt path and reasoning to get there that isn’t just “either you’ll become king or everyone is doomed, because the future says so!” + “here’s a legal loophole to become king!”

And, I think, the in-universe reason the people of Gondor supported Aragorn becoming king is partly because coincidentally Denethor and Boromir were dead and Faramir didn’t reject him; partly because he had the bloodline loophole excuse; and partly (mostly) because everyone was so impressed with how he helped save the world.

But the reason Aragorn managed to wind up in a position to help save the world, and make the right choices to help save the world, is mostly that he was the type of brave and selfless and sincere person who would sacrifice his dream in order to rescue Merry and Pippin, or sacrifice his life to get Sauron to attack him and disregard Frodo and Sam. The sort of person who understands how much worth his people have, who knows what is deckchair-rearranging and what is a beam of true hope be it ever so slender, who accepts the sheer smallness and simplicity of what he needs to do for the greater good, and who respects and can influence his people enough to insist that they accept and understand all of this as well. Which are, like, actually good qualities in a king!

And the whole reason he became such a good person is....because he strove to be so, and because the people around him believed in him and helped him become so, and because of his and their own personal desire to restore the kingship and glory of his people. Uh. sorry. I already just said that.

It’s a circular thing. The myopic tribal hereditary reasons the characters/narrative assigns bloodline-related worth and authority to Aragorn have jack shit to do with the actual reasons he has real moral worth and earned authority, but his own priorities and desires that led to him developing that worth and authority are myopic and tribal and hereditary too.

So I think this specifically isn’t a case of “either Aragorn’s kingship is good because it is a restoration of the line of Elendil, or it isn’t good because the restoration of the line of Elendil is a morally vacuous cause.” It’s a case of causal connections that are really important but are far more circumstantial than the characters (or the narrative) acknowledges -- people interpret the restoration of the kingship as something Racially And Normatively Appropriate and Special And Right, which...is a) lmao plz, but also b) the Numenoreans and the line of Isildur specifically DO have evidence-based racially-based advantages. It’s just that those advantages don’t confer any inherent worth of any kind --- Aragorn’s bloodline just happened, in this case, to be SUPER USEFUL, because it’s ancient fairy-tale magic that lets him do SUPER USEFUL things in the context of weaponizing Middle Earth’s lingering scraps of fairy tale magic against Middle Earth’s lingering scrap of fairy tale horror. It lets him troll Sauron with a palantir that he could properly use -- due the fact that the Palantir DOES operate on ridiculous ancient morally vacuous bloodline-magic. Or lets him make the oathbreaker ghosts help him out with the corsairs, because the oathbreaker ghosts too, are ancient lingering equally morally vacuous Soulbinding Promise Magic. The whole concept of the Restoration of the Line of Elendil IS, of course, a morally vacuous cause on its own, as anything other than an in-universe stamp of political legitimacy -- but it appears to also have been an essential in-universe motivation and tool for getting the characters into the places they needed to be, in order for the intricately-woven web of events that make up LOTR to come out in the wash the way it did.

For the in-universe characters, saying that there’s something Inherently Good about the renewal of the line of kings and stuff is actually just....it’s only important to them. It’s this stopgap period, post-Ring-Destruction: re-righting the boat and kind of having this adjustment period of fairy-tale magic to kind of ease people from the pre-ring destruction world where there are dark lords and elves, to the post-ring-destruction world. Everyone in-universe goes “rah rah this isn’t just good because circumstances lined up in such a way so that it was good, as prophesied, it’s Totally Also Inherently Good independent of circumstances.” And it isn’t. At all. But it makes sense why they think that, and want to think that, and why the real explanation would not be sufficient for them. The idea that Aragorn’s one and only world-saving action was distracting Sauron from his destroyers, and that the only reason Sauron was destroyed was because of three hobbits and a mixed handful of coincidence and grace swirling together in an Augustinian whirlpool, is not a super crowdpleasing national myth.

And then, the period after he becomes king DOES imo involve like, a bunch of colonial-reminiscent shit that kind of plays into the people’s expectations and view of themselves -- the racial superiority and suggestions of imperialism-flavored actions regarding all the vague mentions throughout the early 4th age timeline of quelling rebellions in various corners of the world (though imo these are not as conclusive or devoid of wiggle-room as some people interpret them). And I REALLY DISLIKE THIS PART because I’m perennially like...yo, what a massive wasted opportunity there Tolkien...because the irony of Aragorn the hereditary king in exile being restored in such a roundabout way that has so little to do with his heirship is a plotline that would be SO MUCH BETTER to acknowledge and focus on than the bald OMG Heir Of Isildur The True King With Pure Ancestry Has Come!!! thing that happens in canon with only a tiny bit of wink-winking about how much dumb luck it actually was. It would have made a really wonderful story!

In fact, I occasionally do wonder -- from the Appendices and the Prologue of LOTR, the supposed “real” “historical” book which the in-universe character of “JRR Tolkien: Not An Author, Only A Translator” translated, is purported to be a copy of a copy of the Red Book of Westmarch that was edited and translated by the scribe Findegil of Gondor, as copied from Pippin’s copy, of Bilbo, Frodo, and Sam’s copy. And one can imagine it’s not too big a stretch that Frodo and Sam might have been more on-the-money regarding Aragorn and the whole kingship restoration plotline in their original story, but Findegil obscured their insights a bit -- even just from good-faith well-intended biased interpretation due to his understanding of Gondor’s renewal histories.

But still....even with all the undertones and overtones of the restoration of old colonial stuff -- does that mean restoration of old colonial shit in perpetuity? I don’t think THAT’S a necessary extrapolation. For one, imo there’s no testament of proportionality. Elements of recurrences of old colonial shit seem to have been present! -- but for how long, how impactful or destructive, compared to how much tables-turning revolutionary awesome genuine improvement stuff, given everything Sauron had been doing? I mean could be shittier than anything like is often is IRL, but this is as outsode of RL as you get. So. A drop amid a flood? Could be. Who knows? Not much is specified, but not much is precluded either. You can fill in that 120 year gap with almost anything. If someone wanted to fill it with some fantasy of a historical-fiction Realpolitik aesthetic, instead of actually making up something new from the unlimited amount of creative potential conferred by an ahistorical post-dark-lord fantasy setting, that’s legit, but it’s still just conjecture.

Going back up 5 paragraphs to when I thought this was going to be a short answer (LOL) -- 120 years is both very long AND very short -- i.e., 120 years is a nose-to-the-ground view vis-a-vis Silmarillion times, but otoh vis-a-vis RL timelines, there’s just so much TIME and room for....i mean 120 years ago today was 1897? Before World War I? How vastly has world and domestic policy has changed since then? Or like...pick from your choice of other 120 year periods in pre-modern history too, if that’s not a good comparison. Even if there isn’t much concrete reliable evidence, there’s still a lot of room, even before Aragorn’s death - but even more room after it! - for the people of the Reunited Kingdom to potentially, if you so choose, have their day in the sun comforting themselves about how great they are and how their ancestral royal line is restored, and then just slowly move on, change, grow, progress, decide some of their earlier ideas were dumb, reverse themselves in various political and foreign policy arenas (like they had already started to do in some cases during the LOTR timeline), quietly purge themselves of their racist bullshit  -- over the course of a few generations, as is the way of mortal realms. And most importantly, to finally let go of the past, because they’ve been able to taste the satisfaction of a fairy tale, and have come through it, and their children’s children have now lived to see a time where they don’t need it.

(This assumes that The New Shadow is non-canon. Which. HELL YES. It is  fucking non-canon, because it’s stupid and even Tolkien thought it was depressing and mean-spirited, which is seriously saying something.)