#jevil truthers where you at?

[amekonocternia]

I'm being a little petty about shadow milk so I'm putting this here just in case as a warning

I just love jevil sm nobody even compares to his jesterlyness

Look at him, he's just chaos chaos he could do anything he's peak jester he is THE criteria when it comes to jesters anything less than jevil is nothing

I also just really connect with jevil so I am rather biased but shhhhh nobody needs to know that

[ohandcounting]

Oblivion Theory / Pile of Snow Theory by WandyDoodles / @wandydoodles

Oblivion Theory link

It's a good read! Go read it! It's way faster than 190 pages looks like because the font is big and plenty of pictures too. Almost like reading a comic book level of difficulty to focus, I like it a lot. My specific thoughts below the read more

I think this is potentially dead on for at least the symbolism that's going on, though it's still probable to me that there is also an "in-universe" angel. I'm also not sure if I agree with the assumption that the red soul we pilot is special beyond it being a human soul either? Like, there's no reason (YET) to believe that a different human couldn't also seal fountains just from their soul being able to float around in dark worlds like ours does. (like the Susie jail escape, Ferris wheel, literally every battle, etc.) Like, they could just be a magician like those dudes who did a big magic barrier in Deltarune.

On the ending thoughts: I was going to add that Sans' could be talking about Flowey, but...No. Flowey hasn't revealed himself to anyone except us in this timeline. How the hell would he know our type if not from something that happens in DR?! I never noticed it before! Flowey does explain other dialog, like "our reports showing timelines jumping around" and what not even if you did Geno first run/on a true reset. It's why I never thought about it before.

The proposal for The Vessel being The Knight seems very, hard to believe at first. I'm still not settled on it myself, but: The Vessel could be mistaken for Kris if they throw on a hood maybe? "There's that creepy Kris going to the library. We're used to our 1 human in town!" With a lot of characters showing a knowledge on what's going to happen (like Jevil) they might just know when to go do things already without raising suspicion. Only appearing when Kris wouldn't, and/or slipping by without people seeing. It's interesting to me that they never bothered addressing that tbh. I wonder if it's just something they couldn't explain well so rather than bringing it up, they're just hoping we explain it ourselves/wait for new chapter dialog to confirm this.

I am 100% sold on the knight not wanting to end the world though, I've been calling it the "Conspiracy Theory Theory" where the Bad Guy™ is not the Bad Guy™ but rather someone trying to make us Stronger so we can help fight The Really Bad Guy™ (like Kill La Kill kind of[the 10th anniversary was recent, so it's just the only example I can think of atm.]) It gets that ridiculous name because I believe MANY characters are in on it, including Kris themselves, Ralsei, The Red Soul, The Knight, Goner Maker Sequence Voices 1 & 2, Mystery Man, Geoff, Gaster, etc. Pretty much everyone who could be except Susie.

The save file analysis is wrong I feel? When Flowey takes over the save file, that is a veteran with literal near-godlike powers who knows how to manipulate saves. He hasn't had control for 9999:99 yet, despite what the timer shows. That info could be missing for Kris because we weren't there when it was made, what we use to see save file information shows what's missing because it literally doesn't know how long Kris has had that save nor where it was made. We get to see the name because we're in their body though. Like we see empty save files, and they're just empty. After a true reset? It's just empty, just like erasing a file in Deltarune. Kris having ANY information means something more than "just to establish you as a separate entity even harder than Undertale." Especially if the cut intro of Susie trying to wake us up is still hinting towards something like a timeloop being canon. (instead of being cut because it's not longer true)

Save file part 2 break in paragraph for easier reading: It might also be because Kris doesn't have the soul they made that save with anymore, if you're a Kris Is Toy Knife Kid Equivalent Truther like me.

It also falls for the trap of thinking what Chara says at the end of genocide is strictly a metanarrative statement, not something Chara believes will be possible. In a game where characters consistently say things that apply both in and out of universe, which I've never liked. Like Flowey after restarting the game after in TPE talking to both: 1.) us in the meta, but believes he is giving his parting words to 2.) Chara IN universe.

But like everything with depth, people are gonna make mistakes. Especially mistakes they don't think are mistakes and are much simpler answers without constant "catches" and clarifications. It's kind of like explaining King Crimson to people, where I'm the only person to do it right. (not a serious statement)

They also point to Mettaton's nebulous "Ratings" when mentioning the amount of monsters in the underground, instead of the echo flower where it's stated there's literally thousands of monsters??? This is something I see people do all the time?

[illdothehotvoice]

Hi Knight Papyrus is such a cool idea and I would love to hear more about it!! Were there any theories/game evidence that led you to coming up with the idea, or was it just entirely an AU/for fun thing?

Oh yes yes!! This got. WAY too long so it's under the read more (I don't go in depth for the sake of time sorry qwq I can make a separate post later going into more detail about in game stuff qwq).

In all honesty the Knight Papyrus concept came to me right before Chapter 2 came out I was daydreaming in class about Papyrus being in the dark world (Cause I really thought he would be in Chapter 2 rip). I did a little sketch of his design and it turned out looking pretty knight-esque so I kept it for the Knight Papyrus concept ha ha. (The idea behind it was it would be his Battle Body if it was like. Actually real and not just a costume Sans made cause I like to think if characters from Undertale were to end up in the dark world their magic and outfits would be similar qwq). Eventually I started playing around with the idea of whatever is happening with Jevil and Spamton happening to Papyrus which eventually just evolved into him being the Knight for funsies [Note that the Jevil and Spamton concept isn't accurate to my current thoughts about it lol in fact he probably doesn't even really know who those two are since Spamton doesn't seem to know who the Knight is.]

HOWEVER. I am actually a really big Knight Papyrus enjoyer/truther nowadays based on like. Actual in game stuff dshjgkfdh (I won't be upset if he isn't though I just think there's a lot of interesting evidence that ties him to being the Knight but we are literally on chapter 2 of 7 we are barely scratching the surface of this story and I think it might be a little silly to expect that we'd be able to guess something like that this early on ^^)

I don't want to go too into it here cause this is something that I would literally make an entire slideshow about to get my point across lmfao, but Papyrus is a character who is definitely shrouded in mystery in Deltarune. Supposedly just seeing him would be too much of a spoiler and Toby Fox seems to be bringing a LOT of attention to his absence. Papyrus incidentally is the only character in Undertale who doesn't really get a resolution I guess?? Since I tend to subscribe to the idea that the Sans and Papyrus we see in Deltarune are the same guys (Again based on in game evidence I don't want to get into here just cause this is already long enough lol sorry). I think it would neat to explore those loose ends a bit more. I just think there's a lot to be explored with him and he's always been my favorite character because of it qwq.

Just stuff like Papyrus' room is like the one place in a post pacifist run where Reunited doesn't play for example???? One of the more obvious instances of him just straight up lying about things is the call where he acts like he doesn't know what a Lab is when Sans is around and literally in the next room he states taht Sans would love a lab since he's into that kind of stuff??? I know I reference it a lot it's just the one that comes to mind i need to freshen up on my Papyrus phone calls dshgjkndfh. Dude why are you so weird why do you lie about random things all the time dshgjnkfdh.

Anyways all that to say it started out as a silly idea and then I realized there was actually some substance to it lmfao sorry this got so long I tend to ramble a LOT about unrelated things when it comes to these games