#joe and cleet

[abovesn4kes]

Sadie and some bad folk

[joes-neck-scar]

[nosfurarity]

epilogue 2 antagonists 🩵🩵🩵

it sucks SO bad but i needed to post something 💔💔💔💔

eat up pls i made it with love

[hello-mishki]

I've only just noticed that Cleet also has chest tattoos and now I'm going down this rabbit hole of learning about tattoos in the context of the western frontier setting.

Makes me wonder if Cleet and/or Joe served military time before becoming outlaws, kind of like how Pearson also has a tattoo from his time in the navy. Cleet has a mermaid with an anchor so it seems plausible.

Or if they'd been in jail. Which seems more likely for Joe as the scarring around his neck suggests he survived being hanged.

Also thinking about the choice to not give Micah any tattoos, I highly doubt Micah would have ever served in the military or spent too long in jail. He's an intelligent outlaw, so I don't think he would go out of his way to get tattooed and make himself more identifiable to the law.

I love details like this in case that wasn't obvious by now lol

[gremlin-boah]

Hello! If you feel inspired could you please draw Cleet and Joe? I love Micahs little lackeys sm and your art is so good 😭🙏 Have a nice day!

Ah yes.

Micah's lil bois

I made this shit with like 3 hrs of sleep pls don't judge me.

[micahs-chin-scar]

rat trio

[nthspecialll]

Hiii! I love your red dead analyses sm, you're so big brained. What do you think the dynamics were like within Micah's gang? I saw people say Joe was his right hand man but I don't recall seeing it stated anywhere? How did he go from "wanting a tight crew of 5-6 good guns" (paraphrasing here) to such a huge gang of desperadoes? Do you think Cleet was telling the truth about being disgusted by their actions? Thanks!

I have talked about some of this actually! I will link those posts at the end of this answer, but also thank you!!

What do I think the dynamic within Micah's gang was? I think that it was very professional. Unlike with the Van Der Linde gang, Micah's gang was not a family, it was very strictly a formal and professional thing, and I think that a lot of it is based on respect and fear for Micah.

Many of the newspapers report about Micah being very well know, very feared but also very sucessful, which to a regular person sounds extremely bad, but for a carrerr criminal you couldn't find someone better. Already by being part of Micah' gang you have asserted yourself in a position of power over civillians, law and other minor criminals.

That said, I don't think Micah cared a lot about his gang members, I think this rise of fresh meat is new, it is recent, that is what one of the posts is about, but basically the newspapers report that Micah is feeling desperate and I think that desperation is what leads Micah to accept more people into his gang because despite his dream, numbers is power. Micah's desperation is what leads him to break away from his ideal in order to try to protect himself. He doesn't care about all these people, about their lives, about what havic they make in his name, about anything. Likely he just kind of floated above them liek a symbol they could use.

About Joe being is right hand man, I don't particually remember anything directly stating it, but I do think it is correct due to the relation between Micah, Joe and Cleet.

Micah is the leader of these three, and while both Joe and Cleet do what Micah says, Joe is way more into it. If Micah says jump Joe will jump down on someone's head to bring that extra gore into the game, I don't think he is doing it to please Micah, I just think he does it for fun. Cleet however is just kinda following along, he does the crimes needed, he does what is told but he doesn't really make it anything big and fancy, which also brings me to, do I think Cleet was disgusted with Micah?

Yes, I do think he was digusted, I think he has morals, I think he has bounteries and I think in the end Micah crossed them.

[shenziart]

✨NEW ANSWER FROM RDR ASK✨ Cleet & Joe joined the show

Q: Who are these guys you brought into Dutch's gang? How do you know they are reliable? Q2: Make an answer on behalf of a character who is secondary in the story of your ward. For example, on behalf of your character's relative, lover or friend

p.s. sorry again for my english👉👈 love y'all

[miguel-owhora]

Cleet n joe tag teaming micah or other way around

mrrrow! I can vaguely see that happening, maybe some classic spit roasting, or even tag teaming with Micah egging them on, telling them he can hardly feel a thing and if they can't even fuck him properly, what's the point of keeping them around?

[rdrshitsthatsomeoneaskedfor]

your MBTI your character pt3

[zanazirafanfic]

Sharing because this video goes hard. (I also love the RDR1 Dutch mod.)

[08melancholie]

Hello! As the Micah Bell HQ and CEO do u have any hcs/analysis on his dynamic & backstory with cleet + joe? How they met, their interactions, reaction to cleet running off, etc. Have a nice day xoxo

Joe, Cleet and Micah.

As the Micah Bell HQ and CEO, I have a few ideas and headcannons about them and the relationship between Micah, Cleet and Joe and their backstory.

And of course, a warning; spoilers for RDR2 and RDR1.

1. Meeting.

2. Backstory.

3. "Joseph" Joe and Cleet

4. Micah's gang

5. Epilogue.

6. Headcannons and Thoughts.

I'll also add information about the topics I talk about, so you can actually use this as another info post like my 'writing Micah' one.

First things first; my analysis and sum of the canon information.

1. Meeting.

We meet Cleet and Joe in the final chapter as Arthur, which is Chapter 6: "Beaver Hollow" at the start of the mission "My Last Boy".

Around Dutch's tent are Micah, Joe, Cleet and Dutch himself when Arthur interrupts, asking who the two men are. In response, Micah say that "We need guns for what's coming", that Cleet and Joe know how to fight and how "it's lucky Micah bumped into 'em". Arthur's response to this is asking Dutch what's going on and what's happening to them; what's happening to Dutch himself. Micah asks Arthur to "show Dutch some respect", and before things can escalate, Eagle Flies interrupts the conversation to ask Arthur, Dutch and anyone that would like to join in to ride with him into their war—which starts the mission gameplay and ends the cutscene.

We don't find out anything about these two men when we meet them, other than their names and skills with firearms, and that they're needed "for whats coming".

2. Backstory.

Per Micah's word, he only came affiliated with Joe and Cleet recently in Chapter 6, having 'bumped into them' and deemed them good enough to help out with whatever next was coming for the gang. Joe and Cleet however, don't seem very close to Micah at all. They don't talk to Micah in camp, seemingly just doing their own thing and practically ignoring the other man. I think that's a very interesting and overlooked detail, seeing as they're supposed to be at least kind-of close to each other if there really is trust between Micah, enough to invite the two men into the gang, but maybe not.

3. "Joseph" Joe and Cleet.

Joe, full name Joseph, is recruited by Micah for the US army train robbery, like Cleet. Joe was definitely more loyal to Micah in comparison to Cleet, seeing as he stayed with Micah until his end; being shot down by John while he was climbing up Mount Hagen to get to Micah. I don't have much more information, as the two of them are very minimal characters in the game.

Cleet wasn't as loyal as Joe and he had more empathy than Joe did, seeing as he left Micah after the killings of that one family with the little girl he had tried saving. If his whole story about that is true, then we know that Cleet was a lot more 'human' than his companion Joe.

With that out of the way, a small fun-fact to fill a gap;

Cleet and Joe each have a tattoo on their chest which says "tout me fait rire", French for "Everything makes me laugh". Cleets' tattoo is a bit more hidden by his neckerchief, but Joe's is more open. This is very interesting and it actually gives us a bit more about their characters; Joe seems more proud of it whereas Cleet hides it, which makes me think it was the formers' idea to get those, and it also shows that they had a strong enough bond for a matching tattoo. Also, they might know French! So that's really cool tbh...

4. Micah's gang.

After the fall-out of the Van der Linde gang, Micah starts up his own gang which includes Cleet—for a while—and Joe. They commit a mass of crime in their path like robbery and murder, which sometimes included dismemberment. Micah himself has taken a massive amount of lives, estimated to be up to two dozen people. His gang becomes very feared by that time, and you can find newspaper talking about it; saying that Micah's horrid actions "rival that of Van der Linde himself".

Cleet fell out of Micah's gang when he killed an entire family during an attack on a homestead at some point between 1899 and 1907. Upon trying to murder a little girl in that assault, Cleet attempted to save her; to which Micah responded by attempting to kill Cleet himself, before Cleet got away.

At some point around 1907, Dutch Van der Linde joined hands with Micah once more to retrieve the money in Blackwater from the botched ferry robbery in 1899.

5. Epilogue

After finding out about Cleet's whereabouts, Sadie visits John at Beechers Hope and gets him to go with her to finish Micah off. Sadie leads Charles and John to the town of Strawberry to find Cleet, who they interrogate while threatening with the rope. He's made to talk by John and Sadie as they stand close-by the level which leads to Cleet's death, if the player chooses to go down that path. He tells us that Micah is up on Mount Hagen, and how he's got a whole gang now. Cleet pleads his case by telling us he tried to stop Micah murdering a family containing a little girl which let to Micah attempting to murder Cleet, before he 'luckily' got away.

Depending on the player's choice, Cleet either gets hanged in front of a small crowd of Valentine residents, or is shot by Sadie.

With the information from Cleet, Sadie, Charles and John set out to into the snow and mountains once more, where the events of RDR2 start. They ride to Mount Hagen when Sadie and Charles get injured, which then leaves John—the player—to fight off Micah's gang on his own. John is almost immediately confronted by Joe and two unknown gang members. After a short talk, John shoots all three down before continuing his way towards Micah. John climbs up the mountain, shooting down any and all of Micah's gang members in the process until he finds Micah at the top before a cabin, and the two quickly get into a shootout where Sadie manages to surprise Micah from behind and holds him at gunpoint. Micah holsters his guns in surrender, but before anything else can happen, Dutch exits the nearby cabin to reveal himself, and aims his revolvers at Sadie and John. In a moment of surprise, Sadie is overpowered by Micah, and the only thing that 'saves' them is Dutch's betrayal of Micah by fatally shooting him in the torso to which Micah says his infamous line: "You shot me pretty good", before being finished off by the player/John.

By the end of the mission, Micah is shot to his death by the mutual effort of Dutch and John, with the former leaving the scene alive until the events of RDR1 transpire.

6. Headcannons and Thoughts.

Finally, what you've been waiting to hear; my thoughts.

First, I want to start at the background—I have a hard time believing Micah didn't know Cleet and Joe prior to events of Beaver Hollow. It's hard for me to even imagine Micah so freely and carelessly introducing two random men he just met into the gang; which is why I'm even more surprised by Dutch who allowed it. It feels very uncharacteristically stupid and risky for Micah's persona, which is why I feel like he already knew Cleet and Joe, but for some reason kept everyone in the dark about it. Maybe he didn't want to be accused of 'doing things behind Dutch's back' like he did for Arthur once Eagle Flies said so during "My Last Boy".

As far as the backstory between the two men and Micah goes, I think there was a lot more to it than randomly stumbling into them one day in 1899—I personally think Cleet and Joe were somewhat similar to what Norman, known as 'Skinny', was to Micah; old acquaintances he used to run with. The only difference was that Micah knew they wouldn't rat on him like Norman did, and so he probably got them in on his entire plan with Dutch and the rest of the gang, maybe even paid them because he knew that, in the end, things would have gone his way, regardless of what happened in-between or as result of his choices of action.

Another detail, one I already mentioned; Cleet and Joe aren't around Micah much inside camp. As I said in my second point, "Backstory", Joe and Cleet spend little to no free time with Micah like you'd expect them to be. That's another part which confuses me. If my previous theory were true, of them knowing one-another beforehand, then I'd expect them to actually be talking to each other and not doing their own stuff. So, why does it seem as if they're ignoring each other? That's where I wish Cleet and Joe weren't minimal characters, because I'm very curious about them and how their relation to Micah was in the game and story.

As far as Cleet running off and leaving Micah's gang goes, I don't think it bothered Micah too much. His gang was full of strong, capable men—just like he's always envisioned for himself. Losing one member over murdering one person, albeit an innocent little girl, just showed Micah that Cleet was more 'weak-minded', and I think that that was actually a positive in Micah's head; it showed him who was too 'weak' in his gang. You could almost call the action a small test. Again, they didn't seem to be so close to Micah, so both Joe and Cleet running off/dying likely didn't mean so much to Micah, at least not after he knew he had the backs and lives of an entire gang in his hands.

Thank you for the lovely ask, anon! I had a lot of fun with gathering all the information and with sharing my own thoughts about Cleet, Joe and their relations to Micah. It's been a pleasure answering, as always.

Sources <3

Joe and Cleet — Villains Wiki

Joe — Separate Wiki

Cleet — Separate Wiki

"My Last Boy" Mission

[joes-neck-scar]

[mischievouskitty]

Some of you would genuinely believe Micah's manipulation and lies.

[ryan-the-dark]

Chapter 6: Beaver Hollow (with more people)

"We all need to have a little chat," Arthur declared as he came to a stop.

"Black Lung. You're back. Hooray," Micah said sarcastically with a roll of the eyes.

Arthur ignored him as he dismounted and strode over to Dutch.

"I saw Agent Milton. Abigail shot him. She's okay. Not that you care about that."

Arthur casted a look of contempt around camp.

"You rats. All of you. Seems old Micah was pretty close with Milton."

Micah stepped up a few steps.

"What the hell are you talking about, cowpoke?"

"You talked," Arthur stated simply.

"That's a Goddamn lie."

"Dutch…"

"Dutch!" Micah repeated, "think of the future."

"Milton told me," Arthur said.

"And you believe him, Black Lung?! You believe him?"

"It all makes sense now," Arthur growled.

"No… it damn well doesn't," Micah said quietly, his hands gradually reachin' down to his twin holsters.

Before Micah could draw first, Arthur had his revolver up and trained on him. Cleet and Joe raised their guns at Arthur. Bill slowly began to raise his rifle as well. Lenny and Kieran had their cattleman revolvers up as well.

"Dutch, think!" Arthur implored.

"Dutch… beeeee practical now," Micah stated.

A new voice joined the calls.

"Dutch!"

Arthur looked over to see John staggerin' into the camp.

"John?!" Sean and Bill chorused, equally bewildered.

"You left me-you left me to die!" John accused Dutch.

Dutch, who looked as stunned as everyone else, approached slowly, arms outstretched. An act, if Arthur ever saw one.

"My boy, I didn't have a choice. John, I didn't-"

"You…"

"I didn't have a choice."

"You left me!" John repeated.

Dutch's face scrunched up in disgust, seemin' to realize he lost both of his "sons".

There was a moment of stunned silence at this revelation.

"All of you, you pick your side now. Because this is over," Arthur said with a slight solemnness in his tone but more so determination.

He cast a disgusted glance over at Dutch.

"All them years, Dutch. For this snake?"

"Oh, be quiet cowpoke," Micah started with his usual humorless chuckle, "be quiet. You live in the clouds."

"No. You be quiet, Mister Bell. And put down your gun."

Miss Grimshaw joined Arthur's side, shotgun at her hip and leveled at Micah.

The standoff was interrupted by Javier running up to the group.

"There's Pinkertons coming, fast!" he warned.

This distraction caused Miss Grimshaw to look at his direction. Micah fired, a single shot hittin' her in the abdomen.

She cried and collapsed onto her side, clutchin' her wounded flesh and cryin' out in agony.

Arthur briefly glanced at her before starin' at Dutch, implorin' his old father figure to do somethin'. Say somethin'!

"Now!" Dutch shouted, aimin' his revolvers.

"Who amongst you is with me, and who is betrayin' me?" Dutch inquired, walkin' out into the center of the standoff, guns trained on both sides.

Lenny approached him, "Dutch?! What are you doin'?! Micah has been a rat from day I tell you! You're trusting someone you've known for 6 months over a man you've known over twenty years?! I tell ya Micah has been causin' problems since day one! Arthur's tellin' the truth! Hosea must be turnin' in his grave if he saw what you were doin'!"

The mention of Hosea infuriated Dutch. He turned his revolvers on both Arthur and Lenny. Both men aimed their guns at him. All the while Sean and Kieran looked on with shock. The latter recovered quickly and joined Arthur's side.

John slowly moved over to Arthur's side, keepin' an eye on them.

"Bill, Javier, Sean! Think! Think for yourselves!" Arthur shouted.

Bill hesitated for half a second before he'd joined Dutch, and after a moment of reluctance, Javier followed. Cleet and Joe stood behind Micah. Sean drew his revolvers, not takin' any side yet, standin' in the middle.

"What's happening to ya?! All of ya?! We are in this together! And now, ya are aiming guns at each other! Put your guns down!"

Javier seemed to agree, aimin' his gun in the air.

"Sean, Micah's the rat!" Arthur insisted. "You know what he's been like! For all of these years! Always causin' fights! You hate killin'! If you follow Micah, there will be more blood on your hands!"

"Arthur, I'm sure Dutch woulda known if Micah was the rat! A great man, he is!" He shouted, then turned to Dutch. "And Dutch, Arthur's been in the gang for 20 years! He wouldn't just betray us like this! You are all straight barrels of laughs! Talk it out!" He shouted, though there was a moment of doubt.

"You're either with me or against me, Mr. MacGuire," Dutch said coldly.

Arthur stated, "You don't have to stay here, Sean. Just leave. Run off with Karen. Get your woman and get out of here! Don't get dragged in the middle of all of this."

Sean's eyes flickered. "Dutch, come on! Ya knew each other for twenty years! Raised these boys! Greatest bonds you all share! Ya ain't supposed to be enemy!" The Irish actually close to tears.

"I always knew you were the type who would betray me like Arthur," Dutch stated darkly.

"Come on, Sean," Arthur stated softly. "Dutch's no longer the man who you know! He changed! Hosea saw this!"

Sean fell back to Arthur's left side, gun aimed in the air, still on the fence about the whole thing. Javier slowly lowered his gun to John's direction, and Sean, gun tremblin' in his own hand, slowly lowered it to the direction of Javier. Kieran currently had his sights on Bill, while Lenny aimed at Micah. The cold barrels of Dutch's revolvers were trained at Arthur and vice versa.

"He's lyin'. He's lyin'!" Micah accused.

"Put your guns down!" A voice shouted from the distance.

And a shot went off.

People think Sean would have sided with Arthur without hesitation. I disagree. He was quick to defend Dutch about Blackwater, and yeah Arthur agreed with him, I think it would require some pushing as he would not want to take a side. The problem is if Javier died before Chapter 6, people would be saying that he would have sided with Arthur without hesitation.

I can't see ANY reality where Lenny sides with Dutch and Micah in Beavor Hollow. The man has been questioning Dutch for a long time. If Sean is a younger version of Arthur, Lenny is a younger version of John. Both are young, but Lenny and Dutch have been disagreeing with each other for a long time. Sean would have the "let's save Dutch" mentality afterwards.

I was going to include Hosea but I think he would be at the head of the draw instead of Arthur so I decided to have him still die.

Kieran saw through Dutch since day one.

[gremlin-boah]

i'm curious what would happen if you tried to hug cleet and joe...

WELL—

nearly got shot.