#like i see folks treating ''down bad'' either as fiction or as reality

[taylorftparamore]

i think it's interesting because "down bad" sounds like it could be about any breakup, and taylor specifically describes it as an "alien encounter" and fictional. i think this is proof that folkmore & midnights were the biggest lunge forward for her creativity as a storyteller - using foundational inspirations (reality) to create the bridge to fiction. taylor has written about other people's experiences before, heavily fictionalizing reality on debut ("mary's song") and further expunged upon the ekphrastic in "love story" but folkmore and midnights were the first time it was explicitly fictional/exploring her own past creations.

"down bad" and "the albatross" and "cassandra" all utilize previous songwriting techniques of fictionalizing reality and creating with motifs to literature.

[shadowmaat]

tumblr history is weird. I’ve seen a couple of posts now aggressively defending superwholock and acting as if that fangroup was made of a bunch of precious innocent babies who did nothing wrong but be enthusiastic about something they loved, but then everyone else collectively smashed them down with negativity and ridiculed them for being positive.

As “hot takes” go, that’s a, uh, pretty unique one. The superwholock I remember was feared and reviled because they were a toxic powerhouse of aggressive hatred who patrolled the net looking for anyone stepping out of line or posting a “controversial” opinion (such as “Johnlock isn’t for me”) so that they could gang up and annihilate all non-conformers.

Superwholock, to me, is symbolized more by the way they sent death threats to the actors/producers when their show didn’t go the way they wanted, death and rape threats to anyone who disagreed with them, death, rape, and doxxing threats to folks making innocent jokes, and hurled accusations of homophobia and worse at anyone who said they didn’t like a particular gay ship, even when the folks saying it were part of the queer community.

And sure, you can go the “not ALL fans!” route and point out that there were plenty of good folks mixed into that group as well, but their overall reputation was one of utter nastiness.

Taken individually, at least two of the three fandoms (I don’t know much about the Whovians) are among the most toxic online fandoms, and the Supernatural “family” in particular is frankly terrifying. Just ask Elicia (Euclase) Donze about how they’ve treated her for the past eleven-plus years. Over a decade of harassment from now grown-ass women, but sure, they were just a bunch of sweet innocent babies who never did anything wrong.

Or talk to the actors about the threats made against their wives for the crime of simply existing and thus “ruining” fan fantasies about the actors being romantic partners. Because these sweet wonderful flower children of the internet can’t keep fiction and reality separated and ship the actors together as aggressively as they ship the characters. 

Sherlock fans get a lot of sympathy because of how long they had to wait between seasons, but they were toxic as hell, too. Anyone who came between their Chosen Pair had to be annihilated at all costs, up to and including any real people who didn’t ship it. Doxxing, death threats, slander, you name it.

I’m willing to bet Who fans weren’t any better, either. You don’t willingly hang around with toxic shitfires without being one yourself. That’s what the “rotten apples” analogy means: a couple of rotten apples DO spoil the whole bunch, because they spread their rot to the surrounding apples. And, incidentally, when you’re talking about fandoms as big as these three, “a couple” translates into thousands. 

And no, this isn’t really up for “discussion,” especially not when that translates to you trying to tell me I’m wrong or to try and make excuses for them. Excusing bad behavior only encourages it. Protecting toxic behavior reinforces the belief that toxic is right. Saying they’re “just kids” not only dismisses all the adults engaging in the same awful behavior, but it means those “just kids” grow up never learning how to be better people. Like the thirtysomething woman who deliberately tried to block her company from paying a fanartist that she hated. She got caught because she boasted about it in a place her boss could see, but what if she hadn’t? Or what about the others who find equally vindictive ways to punish people and are smart enough to keep quiet about it?

Thanks, but no thanks. You guys wanna keep gushing about uwu superwholock ♥♥♥, go right ahead. It doesn’t change what they did- and in some cases are still doing- but if it makes you feel better about yourselves to bash folks for disliking a multifandom group without questioning why they actually disliked them, then go right ahead. It speaks volumes for you. 

[surflove808]

On Destiel and endgame hysteria

Sometimes I get fired up about some of the BS I see in this fandom and this is one of those moments.  This post will be a layercake of sentimentality, disappointment, anger and maybe a wee bit (a lot) of profanity.  So, you know. Back on my bullshit.

The show that we love, love to hate or hate to love, for better or worse, will see it's final curtain call at the S15 finale.  You don't need me to tell you how impactful it's been and how much it means to so many people for a variety of reasons that extend well beyond it's entertainment value.  All it takes is one scroll through social media to get a sampling of the reach of this little-show-that-could and by extension (and because of) it's cast, to see that it's beloved by so many.  And it deserves the praise, and the end deserves to be lamented - but like TFW has said over and over, and to paraphrase Frank Sinatra, they're doing it their way.  For that?  I'm happy.

The show has been described as a "juggernaut" and an "institution", and it is.  We all know the themes:  Finding *your* family, struggle, perseverance, dedication, making mistakes and not always learning from them (but trying), acceptance, the beauty in humanity even when all hope seems lost, redemption, and love... to name the big ones. Now about Love.  "Love" is not threatening to burn down houses if your ship isn't made canon.  "Acceptance" isn't threatening the cast, crew, producers and network with lawsuits if your ship isn't made endgame.  I saw a few posts like that today that had a very disappointing number of likes and reblogs and I'm kinda furious, to be honest.  You fucking twits.

As someone who enjoys the show, and respects the determination, sacrifice, hard work, creativity, and yes - Love -  that has been poured into this endeavor, I don't think I'm alone when I say -  JUST. STOP.  You whining, tantrum throwing, self-important, "wouldn't catch a social cue if it had a $100 bill attached to it and was tossed to you from 3 feet away", obnoxious, divisive children.  

Accept what the cast, the writers and Eric Freaking Kripke have told you?  No... can't do that.  Must hop from one lily pad of delusion to the next and have the gall to be self righteous about it.  And then pat yourselves on the back for being alternately clever, threatening and obtuse.  You're like the Donald Trumps of the SPN fandom.  You're not disliked because of your ship.  You're disliked because of your personalities.  Let that sink in.  No one is marginalizing you.  You chose to do this to yourselves AND your beloved ship via your words and actions.  You sunk your own battleship and now you’re pissed.  

I don't affiliate myself with any ship or the other factions of this fandom.... I don't get it.  I'm just a fan.  A fan of the story, the acting, the tragedy, the comedy, the characters and the character of the actors involved.  I don't know what a good "fan" is... don't care.  But I know what a bad one is.  A bad one thinks that they can take ownership of someone else's art just because they've "invested" in it. 

And I apply it to my own life in this way - Here I am doing my thing, putting my creativity out into the world... and what I create matters to me.  Every little bit.  I throw myself into the things I'm passionate about.  And not everyone is going to be thrilled with what I produce.  Some people will never see what I put out there, but word travels fast when you genuinely care about your craft.  I do what I do because it drives me, and always has.  And I do my best to stay true to MY story.  And the thought of someone trying to insert themselves into my story because they think they know my creations better than I do, makes me want to punch throats.  

And the thought of a group of people actually threatening me and the people I collaborate with because I'm not making their fantasy a reality??  Hey - get fucked sideways without lube, and throw some sand in there for extra discomfort.

I want you (and you know who you are) to have some accountability.  Please tell me in what scenario is your behavior warranted or appropriate.  Feel free to DM me.  I won't "out" you, and I'll never be abusive - I just need to know why.  (bullet pointing this because... reading comprehension)

1.  WHY is Destiel is the only representation you'll accept.  

2.  WHY do you think it's funny or "OK" to harass the creatives on this show constantly when you have absolutely no right to their story?  

3.  WHY do you think that pushing something so hard will get you what you want? 

4,   And lastly.... WHY is this so important to you? 

Can you possibly survive if Destiel isn't made canon?  Do you have other hobbies and interests that can fill your time?  Because some of ya'll are acting like this is the Be All End All of your existence and I'm here to tell you - it's really not.  If it DOES happen, it will be at the discretion of the showrunner and creatives, and I promise you it won’t be because they caved to the small, yet omnipresent faction of Destiehellers that have annoyed the ever-living fuck out of everyone attached to this show.  It’ll be on their terms.

The tantrum strategy stops working after age 4, usually....it just seems some of you are late getting the memo.  Thanks to your folks.  Well done.

Try to appreciate the show for what it is and always has been.  If your expectations are unreasonable and are buoyed by years of manips, misquotes and over-analyzation of brief "moments" between ANY characters, and you feel emotional enough about it to behave badly - it's time for a factory reset.  This show has never mislead you - you’ve bought into delusion and over-analysis and straight-up fiction pimped to you by fellow “fans” probably before you even watched your first episode.  It’s the weirdest thing I’ve seen.  And I’ve seen some shit. 

If you’re going to be angry... be angry at your friendly neighborhood Destiel dealer.  They chumped you to get more *buy* for their *supply*.  Them’s the facts.

That being said.... Can We Just Appreciate The Final Moments That This Amazing Cast And Crew Are Going To Give Us (and you know they will), And Let It The Fuck GO?  

You're welcome to block me (you probably should).  But before you do that, could you let this sink in a bit?  And if you see a fellow shipper being an entitled  douche - maybe hold yourself to a higher standard than they do themselves and don't perpetuate it/like/reblog it?  Because this behavior is well and truly a shitty way to treat the legacy of this groundbreaking show, and all those that are responsible for bringing it to life. 

In other words....Behave.  And have some goddamn dignity.

I’m not sure if I’m doing this right, but my response was so long.  Eh...whatever.  @jessiegail   I understand, and please allow me to elaborate. When I was scrolling through the Jensen tags (because the Dean and SPN tags have been overrun by a lot of people with zero respect for the character/show canon, so I stay away anymore.  That in and of itself should tell you something)... I was also sharing in the moment, and the news and wanted to see some SPN love and positivity. What I ran into almost immediately was, and I quote: "If they don't make destiel cannon (sic) for the series finale, I'll set their houses on fire. You've been warned." 87 people agreed with @moosewncstr on this sentiment.  Now... if it was one shitty person and people steered clear of any affiliation with them for threatening arson because they're completely off their fucking rocker.... that would be easy to ignore.  But 87 people??  That’s really, really bad. What I'm seeing and have been seeing, is a hive-mind mentality that doesn't care for acceptance. Doesn't care if it’s abusive. Doesn't care if someone gets their “feelings” hurt. And they absolutely Do Not Care if what they say incites the potential reality of violence, as long as they can force their ship down the throats of as many people as possible and Make It Canon.  

And by hive-mind, I mean - NO ONE in the Destiel camp seems to have the degree of autonomy (AKA:  Balls) required to rein in the bad apples in their bunch.  They either agree or stay silent.  So, because you can’t self-regulate, people like me with no concern or desire for your approval have to come in and tell you to knock your shit off.  You won’t.  But I feel better.  And maybe others will feel more comfortable to express their disapproval when shit like this rears its ugly head. Anyone who would think threats (just a joke...hahaha), are acceptable, and those who are in agreement can suck it. And i will not roll over and sing kumbaya with anyone who thinks this is ok. I'm generally careful with the headers and lead-in paragraphs to posts that are potentially inflammatory. A courtesy that is not extended by your brethren. You had ample warning that this post would not be kind to asshole shippers. I don’t think you are one of those people - but, if you’re defending this behavior, I can’t really empathize with you.  I also don’t want you to feel targeted.  This isn’t about YOU.  This is about endemic behavior that has become so toxic, it pretty much can’t be undone. As for paying anything forward, I do not owe people who act like this the time of day, much less a kind word. I have 2 choices:  I can stand by and pretend I don't see these things and block, block, block so that I can stay in my bubble. Or, I can take my own little stand on my own little blog and address genuinely disturbing behavior using language of my choice. What I will never do is threaten or abuse any individuals who question my logic. Downside is... you'll get a very long winded explanation. Go, be happy. Enjoy your ship. No one is telling you not to. I'm telling you right now, though - I can't and won't tolerate the bad apples. Best to block me if you're sensitive to the way I word my posts, but understand - I'm not promoting hate or abusive behavior - I'm fighting it. And I will continue to do so as long as I'm on this dumpster fire of a website, because I love this show and I believe all of the creative's, crew and fans deserve some fucking respect.

[heartbxnd-blog]

Anonymous has sent: 1 3 4 6

Munday Memes; Your Opinions [Accepting]

DISCLAIMER: This post contains opinion! If you can’t deal well with these things, either don’t read this post, come talk to me about it privately or block me. This post isn’t aimed at anyone, don’t let someone’s opinion on the internet hurt your feelings.

1. Is there anything that currently worries you about the rpc?

// At the moment? Not much that I can think of actually!

At least not anything unique to the pokeRPC sorta of speaking. From people who can’t distinguish reality from fiction, the purist culture, to those who feel the need to shove their agenda down others’ throats. These aren’t exclusive to this community, and they always worry/annoy me because people who are wrapped up in this mess- lack any kind of basic knowledge/morals meaning the chances of them TRULY hurting someone else are extremely high.

I’ve learned my lesson, and now I know best to avoid these people and look out for the signs of them.

3. Is there anything that you will absolutely not rp?

// Besides really weird shit? That most folks I talk/rp with tend to say no to?

One thing should be pointed out is that: I’m WAY more open to things privately with people who I trust on, than on my tumblr blogs.

I like to see myself as someone who is pretty open about what could be done in fiction, because I honestly don’t care what happens in it- and so long I’m not forcing it/hurting my partner then who cares?

Even dark heavy subjects like Inc.est, ra.pe, etc. I wouldn’t be fully opposed to delve into for a story. Because if they are used correctly, they can establish and create quite the compelling story.

IKR It’s such a complex concept- the idea of an author, not really condoning/supporting what they write.

OF COURSE, when it comes to RP this is something that my partner must be okay with it as well. Because guess what? I won’t force anything on anyone, in fact whenever I start any discussions/plotting I ALWAYS ask them to tell me what are their boundaries and to always tell me if we should skip something/etc for their own comfort. This is meant to be enjoyable for both parties after all.

Ironically if I were to list out what I would outright deny, is actually gore. Depending on the severity, I can feel physically sick with imagery and detailed description of it. I guess I wouldn’t be able to write a full on ra/pe scene? Eh again, most of the time depends on how I’m feeling.

4. What is your opinion on call out culture or general discourse within certain rp comms?

// 99% of the times it is silly, stupid and unnecessary for both callout culture AND discourses. 

I understand that a call out in its theory, should be used to warn people of ACTUAL threats to the community’s users. Be it for a scam, or virus going around, to possible pedophiles and overall really toxic individuals (WITH REAL EVIDENCES OF IT- AND NOT DMS TAKEN OUT OF CONTEXT).

But what it is used for in ALL the cases (minus like once or twice throughout all of my 5~4 years of RPing here) is to nothing but instigate a mob mentality to go out of their ways to harrass and bully people. Yeah no sorry, I can’t stand nor will support this kind of crap.

People who write callout posts, have a goal in their mind: To ruin the person’s reputation, and chase them out of the community for whatever BS. If anything, these are the people we should be avoiding and be warned about. They don’t care about whatever SJ bs they will try to cover their intentions with, their goal is to destroy and make someone’s time/life miserable.

Discourse is something that shouldn’t even be near RP IMO to begin with, because I’m here to escape reality. Besides- who’s their target demographic again? Are they helping ANYONE? Oh and god forbid if you disagree with them. Now my darlings, this is what we call a keyboard warrior.

It’s unnecessary, nobody asked for these, and they really aren’t making ANY difference y’know besides making those who they don’t agree with lives hell.

TLDNTR: If you support callout culture, and try to shove an agenda down my throat. You can fuck right off from my blogs.

6. What is your opinion on how OC’s & female muses are treated within the rpc?

// One thing: You’re on Tumblr.com I don’t think there is a more progressive hellhole like this one in the internet. 9/10 times I see the supposed “female mistreatment” in the RP community, just looks to me like a miscomunication between the partners.

Either one party wasn’t clear or the other misunderstood what they meant.

If anything I’ve had in the past, female muses mistreat/belittle/harrass my male muses. All while passing it off as “being a strong female muse right here uwu”. Let me tell u, it sure wasn’t funny for me to see my male muses being reduced to supposed sexism just because they wouldn’t be friendly/etc. Even though I’ve stated to the mun countless times, how they were going to react to certain things.

But hey what do I know right? Am I not the elitist- canon rper who only seems to write dudes???

Jokes aside though, obviously I won’t allow these bad experiences ruin my general thoughts on them. This is the prime example of OOC behavior, putting me off completely to even glance at the muse.

As for OCs- my dudes, I’ve rped/written some OCs in the past. I understand and I wholeheartedly agree, it is not fun feeling ignored or left out over characters that everyone else knows. But here is there thing, you kinda of signed up for this challenge the moment you pick an OC- no one knows your character, and you as its creator needs to sell it to others.

It is only natural that people will gravitate towards the pre established characters’ blogs. But don’t let it put you down from your creation, you’ll find people who are genuinely interested in your OC- it is all a matter of finding your people.

[permian-tropos]

essay which eventually makes an argument about which fandom discourse is good political praxis and which is ungood

I know it’s crass to connect inane fandom crap to real world atrocities so to be just minimally crass: recent real world atrocities have indeed made me think of inane fandom crap I’ve seen, but then I wondered what the right way to discuss the parallels even is. Stories resemble reality and things fans say diegetically about fiction (like, the thing we all do where we phrase it like it’s real) can resemble things people say about reality. Diegetic opinions can resemble shitty real world opinions. And we argue constantly about what to do about it.

I’m feeling fucking pissed about some real world opinions, but I don’t think dumb Star Wars fandom arguments technically cause the real world opinions I’m super fucking pissed about, the way people think they do. So this isn’t about that. (spoilers it eventually is about that but I’ll say it’s not for now)

I want to argue that discourse should be about examining every diegetic opinion that feels possible. Everything from baseless nonsense, to things you agree with, to things you are comfortable agreeing to disagree about, to opinions canon tries to slip by unquestioned, like, “there’s nothing to be done about the fact that Coruscant has billions of poor people buried underground like a wealth inequality layer cake”. 

I’m reframing the inflammatory “your diegetic opinions describe your real world ones” or the moral panicky “your diegetic opinions will become your real ones”: The more possible it feels that you’d find fans with the diegetic opinion, the more valid your society/culture treats the real-world counterpart.

So I’m angry, because our society treats horrible opinions about state violence now being applied to the recent Gaza massacre as valid, and it has treated them as valid for a long time, and it’s reflected in some diegetic opinions on the Jakku massacre. Opinions which I now am extra disgusted by. But the people with those opinions might not have the same bad opinions about the real world; it doesn’t work like that. I want the discourse to stop focusing on that.

The ease with which people could, if not justify, minimize, the awfulness of Kylo killing of the Jakku villagers, shows some culturally non-taboo things to say about state violence (“they were fighting back, the villagers were protecting the Resistance/were armed by them, maybe they weren’t a threat in that moment but they clearly would have threatened the Order if they’d had the means, and the Resistance was wrong to use them as a shield”) and its actors (”Kylo didn’t really want to do it, he had to prove he was tough in front of Phasma, he’s desensitized to this because everyone in the Order does it”).

Diegetic opinion: What Kylo did was not excusable. It was completely brutal and unnecessary. The villagers had been disarmed, Kylo killed not just the men combatants but the women noncombatants and children too, and the villagers fought back in the first place because the Order was imposing entirely illegitimate authority. Kylo did not have the right to use military force to get a map to find a man who was hiding because didn’t want to fight, to enact personal revenge because that man held a weapon over his head for a hot second. What would that even be, a cosmically strained stand-your-ground defense? Anyway it was definitely an evil thing to do. 

And those opinions aren’t super radical so they’re treated by society as valid too. As people have pointed out, though, when “war crime good” and “war crime bad” are treated as equally valid, it actually favors war crimes. People have to waste time justifying not doing war crimes. War crimes can be done before facing the court of public opinion, and then the noise of the debate can go on until the next war crime happens. And the same is true of “racism good”/”racism bad” and so on. 

But okay now I want to make an even more complicated-ass point about villain stanning. The more prevalent the garbage stan opinion is, the more support it gives to the overarching stan opinion: “this villain is a normal person”.

Cause I think there are three strains of fan apologia:

1) I forgive it because it’d be excusable in real life (not always wrong! but with the Jakku massacre it does indicate offensively crap politics) 

2) I forgive it because it’s not real and enjoying the thing doesn’t significantly affect my moral judgement or anyone else’s (basically always valid when true)

And the one that intrigues me, 

3) I forgive it not because it’d be excusable in real life but because a normal person could excuse it

If you’re excusing actions the narrative doesn’t present as wrong, the person you’re imagining as normal isn’t the character but the writer. Or, using Death of the Author, some hypothetical authorial intent -- but only if it’s possible to conceive of a writer with this intent. And it’s only palatable when the projected (if not actual) author is a decent person. Their opinions might be bad but it’s from a failing of society, not the individual. This is what so many of us use for the HanLeia kiss in ESB to avoid hating Han for what would count as sexual assault IRL, or to avoid deeply loathing the writers or the movie. 

Also if you project opinions onto a narrative that either aren’t there or aren’t provably intentional or explicit, and construct the hypothetical authorial intent behind it and find it unforgivably abnormal, and then decide the actual writer must be as well, that’s called Rian Johnson Retire Bitching. 

Imagining the writer as normal is one way we can forgive fictional bad behavior, if we think the writer intended it to be excusable. If we think they might not, we can turn to another version -- the character excuses their own behavior, and under certain circumstances we believe a normal person could make those excuses, so the character can be normal (we empathize with normal people, we want them to redeem themselves).

Type 3 stanning arguments about the actors of state violence (eg. what people argue the bottom line of Ben Solo’s moral capacity is), show that we think decent people can be actors in state violence. With the justifications people make, Kylo Ren could technically be a “normal” person because “normal” people can be convinced of all these justifications. And you know what, I’d say that’s true. Nearly every human is born with a healthy ability to develop good morals, so societies where tons of people condone or excuse atrocities do not have abnormally evil people. They have abnormally evil culture.

But the more people repeat the justifications as valid, the more it shows that Kylo is normal. Kylo has a lot of fans, and if enough of them express these diegetic beliefs, it’s sort of evident that “normal” people can have them. The part where I think fiction does end up maybe affecting reality is that diegetic opinions are treated as more potent if the real-world counterparts are good ones. And it’s moral purists and antis and ~discoursers~ that keep encouraging this perspective. 

So the antis give the stans a reason to present their diegetic opinions with real world opinions. Or to defend them without talking about real world opinions. To show that lots of people can have this opinion. Normal people. Good people, decent people. People who, even if they don’t have all the right morals, could have them in a healthy society. But they’re not really clarifying that these aren’t the right morals. Even people in the kylux fandom slipped into this from time to time despite a big push to make “we know they’re evil” the motto.

It’s tempting to use a more potent argument. Push the fandom Overton Window. “Kylo killed those villagers and it was evil but I can imagine him justifying it in ways that show he’s capable of good, and I want to see him become good” is just not as potent as “it was a wartime execution and if the stormtroopers are people maybe the villagers are also bad for killing them” when it comes to making people more sympathetic towards Kylo. 

Thanks to the anti framework of “your faves must be unproblematic” (nice work folks :/) and thanks to people who care too much about their problematic faves and don’t pay attention to the real world, diegetic opinions can end up implicitly encouraging people to push real world opinions for the sake of protecting Your Misunderstood Cinnamon Woobie who you’re very emotionally invested in but doesn’t actually exist, and that is kind of how I’m seeing fandom team up with bad politics when it doesn’t need to. Your Evil Woobie Boi can represent something good for you and you can express this and enjoy yourself. I have an evil woobie boi. He’s a great creative outlet. I absolutely stan the institution of loving villains. 

Which means we have to a) get rid of the purity wank framework and b) prioritize getting good opinions through ongoing interrogation of the real world and not expecting that we can indirectly absorb wokeness through media crafted to convey only the right messages. 

To ensure that people absorb those messages you have to get them to take all messages in media as correct. If your idea of media criticism is, when you get down to it, “criticize the things I think are wrong until they’re all gone and then make fiction tell people the right way to think”, your logical end goal is a society completely uncritical of media. A benevolent dictatorship of woke fiction. Forgive me if I don’t find that so reassuring. 

And you know what? Because so many normal people (like me, before I discoursed myself) toy with this dystopic underlying ideology, our society clearly treats the idea of a benevolent media dictatorship as valid. 

A creepy realization, but look how we got there with the “what opinions feel normal?” method. That’s why I think this model of discourse is one that actually gets us somewhere.

[lauramarlingnatural]

like, i bet ever since that happened he gets pulled over on the regular every time some adult complains about 'suspicious looking teenagers' regardless of whether he was anywhere near the area etc. gets a bit wearing. it must have had a really complicated effect on his relationship with his father too, who we know was constantly being bailed out of jail by Fred. (1)

Answering each ask here but in order because, phew, so much to unpack! I also hope you don’t mind me posting publicly, because I wanted to save it somewhere, i really loved these asks a lot. Also, lmao, i’m glad my socio/crim degrees are going to use for the purpose of discussing fictional characters. Responses under the cut to save people’s dashes. 

To address the first part: Yes, there’s no doubt in my mind he comes into contact with law enforcement more so after his incarceration, although imo it would have been a constant presence in his life before even this. @onceuponamirror (hope u don’t mind me tagging u in but i feel weird talking about people and not tagging them, lol) did a beautiful meta-analysis here that included the headcanon about Jughead and Archie at one time being from the same socio-economic background but eventually Fred moves Slightly Up and FP moves All The Way Down. This is also my personal headcanon. We don’t know when Jug moved socio-economically/geographically from being semi on the North Side of town to being ~murkily somewhere more South~ but, no doubt he did before he was incarcerated at age 10, and it’s a fact that lower socio-economic areas are over-policed. I think the look on his face when he’s being hauled in in ep7 is one of utter terror because he knows, and that’s not the look of a kid who thinks the criminal punishment system is Fair and Just. It’s the look of a kid that knows how easily he could become a scapegoat… probably because it’s happened to him before, but for more minor infractions etc. This I think also coincides with his loner, outcast role that he casts himself into – he’s likely lived the better part of his life under the constant threat/reality of surveillance, especially as you mention with FP being in and out of lock-up. He reacts to this surveillance by trying to dissolve himself into the background. With his novel, too, he’s trying to re-gain some control of his presence within Riverdale by casting himself as narrator, the person which the audience cannot judge/interact/condemn. Obviously his attempt at this gets utterly thwarted as the story unravels, but i think on some subconscious level that was his initial motivation. 

I do think this really complicated things with his father. As much as Jughead is angry with his dad, he also knows what it’s like to feel persecuted and he really wrestles with the complexities that both a) yes, FP is an alcoholic and makes terrible choices and does bad things sometimes but also b) he is treated unfairly and a lot of Jughead’s troubles can be traced back to the roots of social injustice and inequality. On some like, childish level he gets this (i say childish because as smart as he is he’s still 16 so his self-awareness won’t be that spectacular, though i think it is much more heightened than his peers possibly due to years of being so insular and also trying to grapple with the image others have of him). i think this causes him to be both protective and frustrated with FP because imo he kind of is just like, dad, stop proving everybody right, you know? 

(2) i actually have some complicated feelings about ‘Rebel Without a Cause’ being associated with Juggie, because while it’s a good shorthand for disaffected youth, and their are some passing physical resemblances between the two (especially now he has the leather jacket), the very last thing Juggie is is ‘without a cause’ in either sense

(3) He has the 'Cause’ of the mystery and his novel to motivate him, but on a deeper level his life has been nothing BUT a series of things that have caused him to become that 'rebel’ in the first place, while in the original film we are given little more than the idea of 'generation gap tension’ as the problem. But I’m probably rambling now…!

I think you’ve hit the nail on the head here. I remember reading somewhere (I think it was Cole who said this but i can’t remember where/when exactly) that Jughead is meant to be the Moral Compass of the show in some way. (I feel like this is really confusing because Jug self-describes himself as a conscientious objector – er, not in the ‘to the war’ sense, that is v obviously a Political Stance – but… maybe the cognitive dissonance here is an example of someone who desperately wants to be content with being the Apathetic Outsider but in actual reality, is too motivated by notions of truth and justice to fit in that role. Idk. Shrug emoji about this, basically.)

When Jughead is being interrogated by Keller and is talking to Betty about the West Memphis Three (he calls them the Paradise Lost kids which i think is a weird reference for a teen of the late 2010′s, there have been more recent media incarnations about them, lol @ Riverdale’s ~~~timelessness), he mentions that “all those kids did was wear black and listen to Metallica” to get themselves on death row, Actually, that wasn’t all, they were also poor, and had come into previous contact with law enforcement. Damien Echolls literally says that he was fingered for the crime because he was “poor white trash” (i hate this term, pls forgive me for repeating it but. You get the picture, right. also i can’t find the source, it was probably in the documentary West of Memphis, but i remember it being said really clearly). I also think the comparison that Jughead makes here is so, so telling. The West Memphis 3 were outsiders who had been known and disliked by the police in their town since their early adolescence, and two of them had initially bonded over their distaste for the cultural values of their small town. 

There is absolutely nothing about Jughead’s character that is “without ‘cause’”. on maybe a really superficial level the comparison between rwac and Jug might make sense, because of like… the leather jacket, lmfao, and broodiness, and maybe some of the more conservative elements of the Jones Family Storyline about like, FP needing to Get A Job And Be A Man, and Everything will be Okay if the family gets back together (witness me rolling my eyes forever and always). But I think the Serpent storyline goes completely against the idea of there being a generational gap – more, we see the generational cycle. There’s no gap. Also… as far as what the main ‘cause’ might be – class mobility just does not exist, not for those who have been cast into the underclass and criminalized. The potential of Serpent Jughead as Rebelling against this social position he’s been cast into by creating bonds of solidarity with those of his kin – which is what gangs do in some sense, this is obviously Not Ideal or like, without consequence or anything but. Literally gangs exist as bonds of social solidarity in the face of brutalization by police, neglect by the state and demonization by the upper-middle class, and there’s a lot of literature that attests to this. It’s not pointless rebelling or Evil Poors Tryna Scare The Middle Class Folk (lol). 

And now i’m rambling probably lol. Thank you for these brilliant asks!! And to anyone else who maybe reads this: we started talking about Jughead’s childhood incarceration and about how disturbed we both are about it and then this happened

[buzzdixonwriter]

Writing Report April 20, 2019

How long does it take me to write a story?

60+ years

As I posted here, I was thinking about / analyzing story structure waaaaay back when I was a preschooler, even if I wasn’t aware of what I was doing at the time.

As I grew older, I started reading about writing; my father at one time toyed with the idea of being a writer but to the best of my knowledge he never followed through on it (he did write news releases for the US Army during his second tour of duty, but writing a basic news release is one of the easiest and most formulaic forms of writing out there, and the ability  to lay out information in an inverted pyramid style is not necessarily commiserate with creativity) and so we had a stack of old Writer’s Digest magazines and Jack Woodford’s On Writing laying about the house.*

Over the years I picked up a lot of information, some of it extremely useful, some of it particularly useful (either to me individually or to a type of story I was working on), some not so useful (again, at least to me), and some that was counter-productive if not crippling.

I don’t think about them all that much.

There’s an old Zen koan that the singer Donovan turned into a hit song back in the 1960s:

First there is a mountain then there is no mountain then there is**

In a nutshell, you see a mountain ahead of you, but when you’re climbing it you only see the rock and soil immediately in front of you.  Once down the other side, you look back and see the mountain again.

You see the mountain as an idea, not a concrete reality.

As you climb it, you see it as all its component elements, but not as the whole.

Once past it, you see the mountain for what it really is -- a mountain -- but fully informed to the true nature of it.

That’s what writing is like for me: First I saw stories, then I saw their component parts, now I see stories as stories again but also all the parts within them.

The thing is, I can’t be cognizant of the parts until the story is done.

I read (mostly bad) how-to-write books (especially aimed at the screenwriting crowd) and see formulaic crap:  Make sure x happens no later than page y of the screenplay, give your protagonist a Noble Flaw to endear them to audiences, etc., etc., and of course, etc.

Writer, please…

For me, writing is like jazz:   "If you have to ask you'll never know." (Louis  Armstrong)

The best jazz artists possess an extraordinary level of musicianship.  They can (and often do) play all styles & schools of music equally well.

Check out Wynton Marsalis’ incredible dual career in jazz and classical music.

That’s what I strive for in my writing process: To understand the component elements at an instinctual level so that when I’m writing I don’t have to run through a mental checklist.

The items will all be there when I’m done.

This is not the same thing as going back over a story and looking for weak points, or elements that need to be presented better, or to see connections one previously overlooked, but rather to have the story lay down straight and true from the moment you start telling it in earnest.

For me, if I have to think about it, I can’t write it.

In the last three weeks I’ve had a nice little burst of creative energy, finishing two short stories, getting one half-written, and a fourth started.

#4 is a writing prompt exercise we did at the writer’s group I attend.  Those are always fun little creative exercises, even if the results are pieces of fluff (to keep the jazz analogy going, they’re like improvised jam sessions late at night after the club has closed and the customers have gone home).

That writing prompt trigger a slightly deeper look at the throwaway plot twist I dropped in, getting me to realize if I didn’t treat it as a throwaway but rather as germane to the story, it took the tale in a whole new (and more interesting) direction.

So that one’s started and waiting its turn on deck.

#3 is an old idea I think I’ve alluded before, if not here then on Facebook; it’s a silly take on a serious theme (and no, the theme is not obvious at the beginning; what you think is the theme is a misdirection).

I’m about halfway through it, but my writing was interrupted by Previously Scheduled Events and I have not had the necessary time to sit down and recapture my original mindset so that one needs to wait until I can give it the proper attention.***

The two stories I did complete are worthy of a little more time and attention than I have for this entry, so I’ll see you here next week.

  © Buzz Dixon

 *  Woodford’s book and Dean Koontz’ How To Write Best Selling Fiction are arguably the two best ever nuts & bolts instructional books for writing popular / pulp fiction.  There are other authors who write better about the art of writing (Lajos Egri’s classic The Art Of Dramatic Writing is an absolute must-read for everybody serious about their craft), but Woodford and Koontz know the hard slog all too well and share their well-earned wisdom.

**  From a Buddhist saying originally formulated by Qingyuan Weixin, later translated by D.T. Suzuki:  Before I had studied Zen for thirty years, I saw mountains as mountains, and rivers as rivers. When I arrived at a more intimate knowledge, I came to the point where I saw that mountains are not mountains, and rivers are not rivers. But now that I have got its very substance I am at rest. For it's just that I see mountains once again as mountains, and rivers once again as rivers.

***  Folks ask me, “When are you going to write another [favorite TV show] story?” and while I never say never, the truth is those shows we remember so fondly as creators and audience were products of a particular time and place, a unique cultural gestalt that at best can be revisited but never recaptured.