#loki series critcism

[alwida10]

Hey, writer’s guild? I’d like to report someone crossing the picket line!

[therese-lokidottir]

Loki's costume was too distracting for the Loki series

Interview with costume designer Christine Wada had this to say

“According to Wada, the creative team was reimagining the usual “superhero format” when they imagined Loki. The decision to keep Loki in his TVA office wear was meant to allow more of the actual character to shine through. Thus we wouldn’t have our attention distracted by a dramatic outfit like the ones he has worn in the past—or the sort of over-the-top costuming imagery we so often see as the hallmark of superhero stories.

[…]

After the team got Loki out of his original costume, it was also up to Loki lead actor Tom Hiddleston to make that new, more mundane look his character’s own.

“I think it was really interesting for all of us to reimagine this sort of superhero format—like take the armor away and be able to see the magic coming from the inside of the character,” Wada explained. “What does a Loki, what does Tom do with something so benign? And so as a uniform, and turn it into something that’s so Loki, like turning up the collar. Adding [to the character] without it being some more armor that we’ve all seen.” ”

Honestly to me this feels like such a backwards mindset have when it comes to super hero films.

When the first X-Men came out in 2000 it was clear they were determined to be taken seriously and be seen as cool, and they didn't think they could do that wearing yellow spandex. Thus, the more subdued black leather costume. I don't blame this, coming off the heels of so many ridiculous 90s superhero films simpler costumes were properly the right choice at the time. But then after a decade passed, and superhero films became the mainstream, X-MEN movies realized the audience was more than willing to accept the colorful costume.

I want to give all the credit I can to costume designer Alexandra Byrne and artist Ryan Meinerding for taking all of Jack Kirby's craziness and making it a wearable aesthetic.

Yeah, I think it's quite the downgrade to go from "Loki’s collar shape was inspired by a calla lily, often representative of sacrifice and resurrection" to leaving to the actor to make something of the costume.

No other MCU thinks like that, that costume is too flashy and distracted. Wanda finally got her crown because now that the can use the title Scarlet Witch they're going to give her a costume that lives up to it.

It must be a challenge to the costume designer to make something memorable, fits the aesthetic of the MCU and is true to the comics. Ruth Carter did an amazing job with Black Panther, and it's clear how much work she put in. I'm so excited to see her work in Blade. Kym Barrett work for Shang-Chi is something I'll remember, not just the costumes but the regular civvies the characters wear are I think the most notable in recent mcu.

Again, to me it feels like they're going backwards. Oh, no, can't have Wolverine wearing yellow, people won't take it seriously. People have loved Loki for ten years. No one was distracted by his costume. His costume was used to say something about his character. If you think a superhero costume is too distracting, work on something that's not a superhero project.

[lucianalight]

So, a lot of people believe that Loki will be in Multiverse of Madnesscause in January, Tom had still had long, dyed black hair which is a full month after the series finished filming, and he talked about being on set as Loki when he turned 40 earlier this year, and the only thing filming around his bday was MoM. Also, MoM had rewrite at the start of the year with the person who wrote the Loki series, so I wondering whether it was to write to Loki in. People also speculation that Nightmare is the main villain. If the 3 leads get their own Nightmare sequence, I would love to see Loki’s be his torture from Thanos. I feel this movie wouldnt be scared to go there, we’d get 100% confirmation, and it would fit the movie’s horror genre

I think Loki being in MoM is a high possibility since his story is tied with multiverse even more than Wanda or Strange. But I'm not really hopeful about him being written or treated right as long as MW is writing him. I think I read that MW has said how different it is to write a hero than a villain, which indicates how he saw Loki and how that affected Loki's treatment in the show. If there is going to be any nightmare for Loki, I doubt they show Thanos. It seems Marvel doesn't want anyone to pay attention to certain subjects about Loki, including the events of the first Thor movie and Loki's time with Thanos. They might show him having nightmares about his mother's death since apparently he caused it according to the show! Smh. I just hope we don't get anything like that again, or Loki being incompetent in comparison to the "heroes" or the butt of jokes to make them look better.

[therese-lokidottir]

You know

Magento Jewish Holocaust survivor

Killmonger black man who'd been orphaned and faced poverty

Karli Mixed race Irish woman who was a refugee

None of their writers try to excuse them by saying their scars are deeper

You know what is really so frustrating about Sylvie is she is the exact opposite of characters like Magneto, Killmonger and Karli/Flag Smashers because while all of them all portrayed with some degree of sympathy and tragedy their violent methods and refusal to find another way are meant to put in the wrong and to demonize them. Erik shoots his girlfriend, nobody says it's him "sacrificing his happiness". Same with anytime Magento screws with the X-Men, Charles, his allies or one of his kids. Again, when these characters kill just people, guards or soldiers it's meant to put them in the wrong them even if they're making good points.

Karli, Killmonger and Magento all of them their main motivation is to make things better for their people. They mean it when they want change for the better. Revenge might be part of what drives them, it might even be what keeps them from seeing any other way. But wanting to help other people, make sure no one ever has to go through what they've been through, is also part of their drive.

Sylvie wants revenge, the actress has outright said this. Sylvie has achieved her purpose when killing Kang even if the TVA still exists she doesn't care.

So, Jewish Holocaust survivor, Black man and mixed race Irish woman, all of them wrong for extreme methods even if they faced hardships, even if they have a real points and even if their end goal is to make things better. White lady is completely justified in burning people, kidnapping people and just leaving people to die. Even if deep down she doesn't care about making things better, she just wants revenge and damn everyone else, that is ok because she's sad.

[alwida10]

have you seen the new loki spoilers? I don't know if you want to be spoiled (let me know and I'll link you) but according to them they're doubling down on everything we disliked in season 1. More Sylvie, more Larry pining, more romance. Sighs

I don’t think I have seen the spoilers, but I would love a link! It’s very considerate of you asking for consent before sending the link. Thank you.

I’m including a cut since I’ll mention some older spoilers for season 2 underneath.

That said, after I finally made myself watch the trailer I got exactly the same feeling. For me it looked very much like this season is focused on Sylvie’s character arc, which by itself isn’t a bad thing. (I just wished they would leave Loki out of it, so I could skip it without second thought.) Despite me not being interested in Sylvie, from a story-telling perspective I agree that she deserves more screen time to get a fulfilling character arc. I just dislike the message that anyone, be it women or men, would need a relationship to become better or whole. Amatonormativity is fucked up, especially for a character so many othered people identify with because he doesn’t adhere to the traditional Christian values. Values that teach you aren’t successful if you don’t have a job, a house a wife and children. Loki should be chaotic. Hell, Sylvie should be chaotic. Arguing they both need anyone to be complete is a disservice for all those who struggle to keep a deeper relationship for whatever reasons. That doesn’t make one lesser.

I think one of the earliest spoilers I heard were about an older version of Sylvie who allegedly led the TVA, implying she went dark side. This trope is often used to give a younger hero (or in this case variant) the chance to “do better”. In the trailer, Loki and Sylvie cast this massive green wave of magic while holding hands. This is most likely about them being strong together and incapable alone. (subtitle, isn’t it?) so, yeah, I expect this season to hammer down the message that their relationship is the only thing that could save the multiverse, while the lack of it would make them both die or become irredeemable villains with a sledgehammer.

Sadly, I can both see and understand all that and still am unable to let go of my Loki-obsession for good. Perhaps I should write a fan letter to Dante, proposing this concept for another circle of hell. Given the fact the divine comedy is basically a self-insert fanfic where he imagines meeting all the people who admires I think it should meet the premises. 😩

Ok, this got long for a simple “yes please”. 🙈 sorry!! So, yes please! Give me all the discouraging spoilers! Kill my hope! I beg you!! 😭

[alwida10]

Have you read the news of Hemsworth making passive aggresive comments about how Love&Thunder wasn't what he expected and against his bestie Taika? I can't stop laughing how they tried to ridicule and minimize Tom's work to end up like this.

I did! And I admit, it made me smile for a moment or two. Karma has got to him, and I don’t deny it feels better than seeing people destroying things I love and get away with it. Vindication. But it always changes to sadness, quickly.

For years and years, many of us have analyzed Ragnarok, pointed out how Taika destroyed BOTH Loki and Thor, and how Chris hated Tom getting more fame for his performance. That he was petty, calling in Taika. Taika who we said might ‘secretly’ look down upon the franchise. Perhaps because Taika’s father had this academic approach to movie making, and Taika felt looked down upon himself. Perhaps that’s why he felt like ripping it all down, when he was handed a franchise whose Shakespearen tone and highly educated “second” protagonist. And when Love and Thunder came out and Taika had finally outdone himself so much many people saw how he destroyed the characters, it felt good, too. For a short while.

Because until then we had seen our loved franchise being destroyed AND called mad for considering it destroyed AND being called delusional for our claims on an actor we never met and therefore couldn’t even know. Now, that the second point ceased, we only have to deal with the destruction. But at least we get heard now. At least, our prophecies are confirmed now.

And now this. Now, it gets also confirmed that our readings of Chris were correct, too. And it feels good when people admit you were right.

But all things considered, Its still a poor consolation for our loved franchise getting destroyed. Especially now, that TR’s sickening trend of ridicule influenced the Loki show. 😔

A poor consolation.

[alwida10]

Despite all the shit I expect of Loki season 2, at least it (probably) will be written specifically for the characters in question, and not be a recycled script.

And now I wonder if it will be based solely Larry’s characterization or include bits of Loki‘s, too. 🤔

[alwida10]

(Source)

[alwida10]

So, looks like the series Stan’s can defend the “jokes” in the show, but have to back off when they are asked for examples of inoffensive jokes. 🙃

[lucianalight]

Hello! I don’t know if I just missed something but I really don’t understand the variants in the Loki show. Sylvie says she was pruned before Loki was born… but if she’s just a Loki from a branched timeline wouldn’t they still have been born at the same time? And if her Nexus event was being female (fluidphobic as that is to Loki…) wouldn’t she have been pruned at birth rather than when she was like 10? Why do some of the variants get so far before the TVA step in? Like only pruning Pres. Loki AFTER he’s already managed to get his Vote Loki pins and established himself as a candidate. Sorry if that’s too many questions ;A; but I’m so confused

Hi! Your confusion in understandable and that's the show's fault since their world building doesn't make sense a lot of times and contradicts its established rules.

Sylvie says she was pruned before Loki was born… but if she’s just a Loki from a branched timeline wouldn’t they still have been born at the same time?

The first problem with was she said that she was pruned. When? Her timeline was pruned. Not her. She pruned herself at TVA to find Loki.

The second problem is saying she was born before Loki. How? We saw TVA prunes timeline when it branches. So the events of any reality to the point of being branched must be parallel to scared timeline, that makes Loki and Sylvie the same age when Sylvie was taken. It is even shown in the animation in which Miss Minutes explain how TVA resets the timeline. Things goes back to how it was before the branch happens.

So what Sylvie says here doesn't make sense at all with the rules the show established.

And if her Nexus event was being female (fluidphobic as that is to Loki…) wouldn’t she have been pruned at birth rather than when she was like 10?

We actually don't know what Sylvie's Nexus event was. The show went out of its way to point that her difference to other Lokis is because she is female but never gave an answer to the real reason Sylvie was arrested by TVA. And you know, they could actually make this into sth to address Loki's genderfluidity. For example Sylvie deciding to remain in her female form in that age and that could make sense with how TVA works too. When the timeline resets Loki would be in his male form. but no, let's make the show fluidphobic for a genderfluid character. Smh.

Why do some of the variants get so far before the TVA step in? Like only pruning Pres. Loki AFTER he’s already managed to get his Vote Loki pins and established himself as a candidate.

Because the pruning is not actually about the Lokis or what any other person does. Based on Kang's explanation the branch happens when the new reality can create another version of Kang who is more evil than him. Basically Kang built TVA to prevent other timelines to form to stop his other versions. So as long as what happens in the sacred timeline doesn't end up in creating another version of Kang, no one is arrested. That's why there were different Lokis in different stages of their life.

Hope this answered your questions! :)