#luoyang spoilers

[vulnerabletraumavillain]

Drama recommendation: Luoyang

STARRING THREE OF MY FAVORITE CHARACTER TROPES:

And

It's a political intrigue drama with lots of great fight scenes, realistic depictions of the pros and cons of neurodivergence as well as people struggling with mental health issues. Complex plot, but not so convoluted as to be incomprehensible.

It is free on Prime. One caveat is that the subtitle timing on Prime is absolute ASS. Plus, they put the song lyric translations in the same place as dialogue translations, so in scenes with songs and dialogue... If I could have given everyone involved explosive diarrhea with my mind, I would have. But it doesn't happen that often.

The one thing that more or less ruined it for me was. SPOILER SPOILER spoiler from here to the end! || killing off the kick ass female for no good reason at the end. I guess maybe to show her filial piety, but it felt like it might be to punish her for being gender non conforming. Idrk ||

[masterofrecords]

The Ravages of Time episode 5

Well, it's been... a while. Had some questions regarding Tang dynasty administrative division and that made me come back to this episode's translation.

Next one is in the works, but might take a while. There are some things I want to focus more on for Lü Bu's episode and those might end up growing into their own separate post, lol

Episode 5

Thirteen provinces of Eastern Han dynasty

In Eastern Han period, the whole country was divided into 13 provinces: Youzhou, Jizhou, Bingzhou, Yanzhou, Sizhou (under the military rule of the Colonel Director of Retainers), Yuzhou, Xuzhou, Jingzhou, Qingzhou, Yangzhou, Liangzhou, Yizhou, Jiaozhou (apart from Sizhou, all 12 provinces were governed by a provincial governor).

After the Yellow Turban Rebellion [1], thoroughly suppressed by the Emperor Ling of Han [2], the governors were assigned by the imperial court. Since then, provinces gradually became administrative divisions and the governors also became permanent military commanders, sowing the seeds for future power struggles.

Sizhou

In the period depicted in the story, the local government in Sizhou was located in the Luoyang county. Its area of jurisdiction corresponded to present-day south of Hebei, south of Shanxi and the plains of Wei river in Shaanxi. The province was divided into counties: Jingzhao magistrate, Henei county (home of the Sima family), West Fufeng, East Fengyi, Hedong county, Hongnong county, Henan magsitrate.

Reference material: “The Encyclopedia of China – History of China – Western and Eastern Han administrative Division”, “The List of Offices”, “The Book of Han – geography section”

[1] The Yellow Turban Rebellion, also translated as Yellow Scarves Rebellion was a peasant revolt that happened in the late Han dynasty. It started in 184 CE and wasn’t fully suppressed until 205 CE, although the main uprising only lasted until 185 CE. This rebellion is also the opening event of The Romance of the Three Kingdoms.

While the uprising was caused by the government corruption, diseases, natural disasters and poor crops, it must be noted that it was also a Taoist sect – the leader of the rebellion, Zhang Jue, was widely known as a healer and sorcerer, and he and his brothers originally garnered supporters through their religious beliefs.

A lot of the notable people of the Three Kingdom period (like Liu Bei, Cao Cao, Sun Jian) make an appearance in that period assisting the suppression of the rebellion, and these events set the stage for the later unrest, as many regions assembled their own military forces to fight the uprising and the government’s control of the provinces weakened.

[2] Emperor Ling of Han (Liu Hong) – the emperor during whose reign the Yellow Turban Rebellion happened. A distant cousin of the previous emperor who died without leaving a son, he ascended the throne at the age of 12, and his reign saw a rise in the power of eunuchs who dominated the government. His death kicked off the events shown in the donghua.

Spoilers time!

The soldiers of the Guandong Coalition are made-up, but the first two generals they are assigned to (Han Fu and Gongsun Zao) are real people who served under the Yuan family, although Gongsun Zao turned against Yuan Shao by the end of his life). The third general mentioned, Qiao Mao, also participated in the campaign, though I think he wasn't affiliated with the Yuans.

But this isn't what you're here for. You want to know if Yuan Fang is real or not.

He's not.

As for Sun Shu, well, this one's somewhat real (although as usual, heavily fictionalized). It is known that Sun Jian had daughters, although their names aren't known. One of them later married Liu Bei, but I don't know if that happens to Sun Shu in the manhua... The other two are basically only known by who they married. My bet would be on the one who married Liu Bei though, since she was somewhat known for being fierce and a troublemaker.

I'm also not sure if the move to Chang'an was as secret as is depicted, but this is something that I think was about as dramatic as is shown in the donghua. Dong Zhuo did ransack the imperial mausoleums as well as rich households and he did burn down the city after leaving it. Anyone opposing him - before or during the move - were disposed of, and many civilians died. Even if the banquet scene likely didn't happen, I think it was cool shorthand for the events in Dong Zhuo's court leading up to the move.

[foxghost]

Hello, I just want to let you know you are the best for translating Joyful Reunion. I can feel your love and dedication to this novel with your translations, thank you so much for translating it. Now on to the question - why was Lang Junxia so enigmatic and why wouldn’t he answer Duan Ling’s questions about his intentions?

Because some people would rather die than talk FEELINGS O_O (I'm putting the spoilers under this cut)

Lang Junxia initially decided against telling Duan Ling anything after seeing the fear in his eyes when they saw each other face-to-face again in the alleyway in book 2. His first priority was Duan Ling's safety. Was he safe? Yes, he was staying with Wu Du under the chancellor's roof under an assumed name. So he needn't worry -- until he left for Tongguan.

Then books later on, when they're essentially working together, he didn't think there was a need to tell him. By then, he knew he had to "die" officially because the court officials needed their pound of flesh and he was glad to give it, just not literally since he knew Duan Ling would have need of him during the war. But if he allowed Duan Ling to get any more attached to him, Duan Ling would ask for leniency on his behalf -- this isn't good for his status as heir or the future emperor, so he kept his distance.

(Well of course Duan Ling was going to ask for mercy anyway, so Lang Junxia had to beat him to the punch)

I think he may have told Duan Ling in Luoyang inside that interrogation room. If Duan Ling had acted even more like his father and deduced all of Lang Junxia's actions during the poisoning and afterwards, then just throws them in his face not as questions but as statements, Lang Junxia would have admitted to it all with his silence. But Duan Ling wasn't Li Jianhong and didn't have his ability to sacrifice his underlings when necessary, so he just held his tongue again.

To figure out what's in Lang Junxia's head, since Feitian isn't going to tell us, we have to keep him mind that Lang Junxia will always consider "would telling Duan Ling the truth be good for his growth as the ruler of the empire", and I think that by the time he planned to leave, he'd decided that telling him would be unnecessary. (Even that letter is OOC -- but it needed to be there for OUR benefit.) By assuming that the person he trusted most had betrayed him, Duan Ling had matured in ways that he never would have by depending on everyone around him. This is further proven by his lack of character growth in the Watchtowers extra.

[yibo-wang]

Baili smiling while thinking of Liu Ran’s cooking.

Luoyang (2021) | ep 11

[yibowang]

luoyang (EP3)

baili hongyi & liu ran’s marriage 

[canary3d-obsessed]

Sheltered, Lady-averse Baili Erlang decides to do some detective work in a brothel. It doesn’t go so well.

Fortunately, he’s brought his wife along as his wing woman. Having forced him to marry her in spite of his lady-aversiveness, she’s starting to make up for it by being his biggest fan and supporter, genuinely understanding him and helping him with social challenges.

Here she defends her property rights man from thirsty chicks, and then keeps her distance from him while she talks to him, giving him some space to pull himself together.

She also reminds him that brothels are places of business, so he tries again, this time with money ready, and he gets the information he needs.

Theirs is an interesting dynamic. She’s very accepting of his personality, and she’s genuinely fond of him rather than just admiring his looks.  On the flip side, she had no qualms about pressuring him into marriage. It’ll be fun to see how things play out.

[rainbowsky]

[yibo-best]

[dormantchrysalis]

Fengqi Luoyang (2021)

THERE WAS ONLY ONE BED! ft. Baili Hongyi x Liu Ran

[thatwasmyperfectending]

"No regrets"

My poor Erlang lost his dear Shen Fei...

😭😭😭😭💔💔💔💔

[deathcupcake]

I’m still having a torrid love affair with the scene lighting

[silviakundera]

Luoyang episode 3 watch notes w spoilers

I suppose I need to start referring to Scraggly Man of Unwashed Mystery by his actual name, since everyone has taken to shouting it repeatedly. Gao Bingzhu! Gao Bingzhu!

Ah, Gao Bingzhu! Even heroically saving a small child while fighting off the police mob! Is there anything this man can't do? (Beside personal grooming)

"Gao Bingxhu is not crazy. He's wanted all over the city. How could he be attending a wedding?"

"You don't know him. This person is a complete psycho."

lol she's not wrong, but the man is on a MISSION (the v urgent mission of finally bringing Baili gege into the plot)

It makes Baili Hongyi quite interesting that he is THIS stubbornly resistant to having his marriage decided for him. From what I understand, during that era it generally was expected that the child would go along if their parent arranged an advantageous marriage for them. It's one thing if there is a real objection to the girl or her family, but instead he's rebelling against the whole idea of an arranged marriage. Something very sympathetic for a modern american but feels unusual for the setting for him to be going THIS HARD about it.

So, the elephant in the room: is it an asshole move for Lui Ran to be going forward with the marriage when she knows he doesn't want it? Hmmm well, in the fictional historical context I'm frankly ok with it for 1 big reason:

We can't ignore that even with an empress, ancient china had a socioeconomic and political structure where women did not have equal rights as men. Baili Hongyi has immense legal & social privileges by just being a noble-born man. Just being a man, period.

Lui Ran on the other hand has no option to not get married. She will absolutely get married off to a man and then that man would be able to get away with starving and beating her. There will be an enormous power imbalance. It's fate she cannot escape.

This guy she's known from childhood is a dependable, ethical person who she can trust never to mistreat her. Of course she has a crush on him. I'm not going to judge that when the Baili family gave her this chance to have a genuinely good husband, she grasped at it with both hands. Honestly, the entire capital can whisper behind her back about forced marriage and she's still better off.

Anyway, sadly our second brother Baili has entered the chat and now his dad is dead and he's fleeing w criminals on horseback and it's all very nice to see him interacting w our other 2 leads but did it have to be this way?! :(

[masterofrecords]

The Ravages of Time episode 2

Oh this is… a fun one. For you, not for me, because “The Book of Later Han” doesn’t exist in an English translation. There are some excerpts out of order included in the Zizhi tongjian (Comprehensive Mirror in Aid of Governance), but the relevant chapters from that have also not been translated into English, as far as I can tell. So. Uh.

I did my best with the notes available on ctext and my own knowledge; this translation is obviously less reliable than actual professional translation (like Liu Bei’s biography excerpt I will post for episode 3), but hopefully it will still provide some context. Again, I just want to impress that as far as I can tell, some parts of this excerpt have never been translated into English, and so my ability to compare notes was limited.

That said, the Dong Zhuo entry in Rafe de Crespigny’s “A Biographical Dictionary of Later Han to the Three Kingdoms (23-220 AD)” is at least partially based on “The Book of Later Han” and has been invaluable in helping me make sense of the donghua card, as has been the baidu article on Dong Zhuo that is written in much simpler language than a Han dynasty chronicle.

I’m going to suffer similarly on episode 13, I believe – the ones before are either only referenced from historical records (and seem to be modern Chinese, though I haven’t yet had the chance to take a proper look), or have translations available. Zhao Yun’s biography, however, has not been translated from what I’ve seen.

Episode 2

[From historical records on Dong Zhuo] Dong Zhuo, courtesy name Zhongying, was born in Lintao county in Longxi Commandery. He had a fierce and resourceful character, in his youth spent time among the Qiang [1] and befriended many distinguished people [2]. After he returned home, many followed him, and Dong Zhuo had a lot of livestock slaughtered for a grand feast with them. His guests were impressed, and upon return, gathered a thousand heads of cattle to give him, acknowledging him as a great swordsman. After the Emperor’s death, General-in-Chief He Jin and his subordinate officer Yuan Shao conspired to kill the eunuchs, but the Empress Dowager resisted, so He Jin ordered Dong Zhuo to bring the troops to the capital to threaten her. When Dong Zhuo arrived, his foot and horse troops only numbered three thousand. That was too little, and in order to , Dong Zhuo for four or five days had the troops exit the camp every night, only to make a big show of them entering the next morning so Luoyang would think his army was getting reinforcements. Dong Zhuo than took control of He Jin and his younger sworn brother Miao’s troops [3]. He also convinced Lü Bu to kill the imperial guard Ding Yuan [4]. Dong Zhuo’s army grew significantly. Dong Zhuo gathered the officials in front of the Palace and threatened the Empress Dowager into deposing the Emperor Shao [5]. He said: “The Emperor is in mourning and has no heart, he is not fit to be the Emperor. Remove him to be the Prince of Hongnong.” – excerpt from “The Book of Later Han” – Biography of Dong Zhuo

[1] Qiang – ethnic group from northwestern Sichuan

[2] distinguished people – not necessarily nobles, from what I understand, but usually people in power, could refer to rebel leaders or tribal chiefs, for example. I ran into a bit of a cursed loop with this word – one of the sentences used to showcase the usage of it on baidu was… the very same sentence from “The Later Book of Han” I was trying to figure out.

[3] This abridged version kinda… skips the moment He Jin and He Miao die. He Jin was killed by the eunuchs, while He Miao was killed by He Jin’s faction for sympathizing with the eunuchs. Politics.

[4] Lü Bu was Ding Yuan’s protege, but looks like that’s not mentioned in Dong Zhuo’s biography.

[5] Emperor Shao – Liu Bian

Once more, read more for 2000-years-old spoilers!

Liu Bian is depicted as a child here, but it is likely he was 17 when Dong Zhuo came. Admittedly, "The Book of Later Han" contradicts itself on this in different chapters - he could be 13.

As you can see from the above excerpt, Yuan Shao was... very much there when it happened. In fact, he and Dong Zhuo had a discussion about deposing Liu Bian in favor of Liu Xie - and Yuan Shao was against it. In the end, Yuan Shao left the city and Dong Zhuo had to be persuaded not declaring him a wanted man.

A massacre did happen, but that was before Liu Bian was deposed, it seems.

You might be wondering about Lü Bu's weapon - I certainly was. It is a ji (戟) - sometimes translated as a spear or a halberd. This is how historical ji typically look like:

This, however, is how Lü Bu is often depicted.

It seems to be a later modification? It's actually a bit confusing, in all honesty, but it's definitely used in modern martial arts. Regardless, the donghua continues the tradition of depicting the Sky Piercer this way.

In general, Lü Bu is quite a legendary character, in part thanks to his depiction in "The Romance of the Three Kingdoms". There are a lot of legends about him that we might or might not see later in the donghua, so I'll save them for now. I'll just say that his horse - Red Hare - is almost equally famous, to the point where it was said "Among men, Lü Bu; Among steeds, Red Hare."

I'm not sure if the numbers of murdered ministers and other officials has any basis; if they do, I haven't been able to find any indication of that. Dong Zhuo did use his power to have some officials executed; and there was a massacre beforehand where along with the eunuchs, many young men in the palace were killed, but the massacre depicted in the donghua seems to be greatly exaggerated.

The Sima family was indeed caught in Luoyang at the time of these events. It also seems to be true that Sima Lang was at some point arrested. His escape, however, was far less dramatic - he bribed his way out.

As for the first encounter with the legendary trio of sworn brothers - I'll leave that for the next time, when I will present to you the excerpt from Liu Bei's biography.

[la-belle-laide]

Thoughts on Luoyang / Winds of Luoyang, which I mostly really loved. BUT.

I'm so done with shows that fridge the women istg! I'm going to start spoiling myself to find out in advance and just not get invested. What was the whole point of that?

Unpopular opinion but I liked Liu Ran and I adored their romance, I thought they were absolutely so sweet. I wish they'd had some kind of kissing scene but Yibo's eyes said it all. He's a great romantic lead, I hope he gets more romantic roles because they suit him. Like with any fandom, Yibo's has this whole "hate any romantic female lead playing opposite him" but IDGI. This narrative was absolute shit to women, but their romance was very cute, and it subverted some common tropes (e.g. he was the one who had to be won over.)

There was a grand total of ZERO kissing scenes in this thing. Gao Bingzhu and Wu Siyue have their "yes we're in love!" moment and they embrace awkwardly on a bridge.

Best performance in the whole thing? Yao Niang, the owner of the casino. She was SO GOOD.

Oh and here's something else that confused me. Spoiler: So what was the deal with Li Beiqi tying up Siyue and leaving her to die? When we later find out that he was not part of the Four Seasons clan and didn't want anything to do with that, and only did what he did in order to protect her. yet he ties her up in the granary knowing it's going to blow up? Then screams at her for liking Gao Bingzhu? Someone explain that to me because I did not get it.

How in the world are they gonna feed, clothe, and care for all of those people from the Unwelcome Well BTW? So the whole time they had the resources to let them into Luoyang and give them a proper life, but they just... chose not to? What the hell?

All of the grief and trauma that Gao Bingzhu was getting over etc. Like it was his whole point. And then at the end she's dead and he's like "But Luoyang is cool so it's all okay." What the hell was that? And they never even addressed that Liu Ran's brother killed her best friend.

This was a great show until the last 15 minutes. I feel cheated. I'm tired of downer endings, false hopes, and joyless narratives. The world is already dark enough.

How the hell do I turn off these stupid numbers 🤬

[yibo-wang]

local young master, thought to be cold hearted and unfriendly, caught repeatedly being worried about his friends (+wife) 🥺

[whoisthatmovinginthedark]

Gao Bingzhu telling Wu Siyue what happened 5 years ago, good moment, very good moment