#nbsd: text

[nobodysomeday]

Robbie Williams for most of his life:

[nobodysomeday]

hii so im pretty new here and i kinda wanted to know the tea on jason and why he quit the band? also did he get married or has any kids? i genuinely know nothing about him but that he and robbie didn’t really get along when in the band in the 90s 😬

Hi anon! I am also pretty new here yay <3

Okay. The Orange flavoured tea... btw take all I'm about to say with a grain of salt. I am not an authority. I am just a freak on the internet who finds Jason Orange to be a really fascinating character and reads too much into everything [long post]

Marriage, kids, women

I'll answer the easy part first: no, he's not been married or had kids. Which is a shame because he used to mention wanting that for himself one day. How true that is, I can't be sure. But he seemed very sincere about it when he was young.

His relationships with and attitudes about women are something I could talk about another time, I'm still figuring out how to put it into words. But basically: it's a bit odd.

Why did he quit?

You also asked the big question. You get a big answer.

There has been a lot of speculation over the years around Jason leaving. Was there a falling out? Was it for legal reasons? Is it covering up a scandal? What would possess a man to leave one of the most successful bands to ever come out of the UK?

Coming into the fandom in 2025, we get the benefit of hindsight when we look into the history of Take That. So with Jason, I've actually found the reason for his departure pretty obvious. I doubt there was a falling out, there's nothing those guys can't patch up. I guess I could see legal issues or some other scandal playing a part, but at the end of the day he wouldn't have gone if he didn't want to go. That's the basic answer.

The deeper answer begins with the fact that he wasn't much appreciated during the 90s run. He had a good time but felt out of place, and Gary especially was quite bad at reinforcing those ideas (jokes about his irrelevance, not giving him a chance to sing lead, etc.) So when it came to the comeback, he almost didn't do it.

"It was just total and utter nonsense for me to even contemplate it." (Jason, in Look Back Don't Stare)

"I felt a lot of revulsion about everything. I was so unsure of what I was doing there [documentary screening in 2005] and it was a horrible day. I was stony-faced with absolute fear and totally bewildered by it all... It was a very tense time for all of us, but I felt it the worst... I had no idea whether it was the right or wrong thing to do. I was in no-man's land." (Jason, in Take Two)

"Jason can get a bit down on the whole thing. He can have those feelings of not deserving to be there. I don't think he enjoyed the comeback tour. He was working stuff out about what Take That was... With Jason, he can feel a bit intimidated." (Gary, in Take Two)

He simply did not have the confidence. He was also always uneasy about fame, and at the time of the Ultimate Tour this was one of his concerns because after 10 years away he was on his way to being anonymous. The comeback undid that and he became irreversibly famous. So the ground was laid even before it began. He didn't want to do it in the first place.

And that reluctance carried him through for two albums and three tours. Again, like in the 90s, there is no doubt that he did enjoy it. He loved Take That, and during his time in the band he expressed so much pride. He was often the MOST enthusiastic member. But what made him commit if he was so conflicted in 2005?

In my mind there were three main things that made it happen. The first is friendship, the most fundamental part of Take That for Jason. And with it was the promise of a more equal treatment. They were going to be a proper band this time and all their voices would be heard, both literally on the album and in the collaboration. Not that this ever truly became reality for Jay on the same level as Mark and Howard, but I get the sense that it didn't bother him all that much. Although the way he addresses it in interviews he is somewhat self-deprecating about it.

The second is money. It's very interesting to me that he's the only one to reference this motivation and be honest about it. He brings it up as a joke sometimes, but it is so legitimate. The third thing that made his return happen is this complex part of his personality and psychology that I've spent a lot of time trying to figure out and it basically comes down to the idea of fight vs flight. For some reason, Jason has it in him to tackle big things like this, even when he has every freedom to say no and go with the safer option. I think in the instance of the comeback, the pros outweighed the cons and he didn't want to let the other three or the fans down. So he took the plunge.

And what did that bring? Enormous success. Unfathomable success. He had the money he wanted, and he got the friendship he wanted. With them all more mature they could do the business in a more comfortable way.

"The most interesting aspect for me about being in Take That now is the bond that we're sharing and can share in the future. The fact that we're mates and we're going through life together and meeting challenges together and successes and disappointments, that's the journey and it's brilliant." (Jason in 2008)

I think highlighting the brotherhood is so important in this discussion because in my mind it is the be all AND end all of Jason being in Take That. Meaning it's why he was there, and it's also part of why he left.

Jason loved being in TT4 for those 4 or so years. But he REALLY loved being five again when Rob came back. When they got together for Progress, Jason says his "excitement was invigorated," and when Rob briefly backed out Jason was gutted. In the documentary he talks about how the band "felt whole again." Clearly Rob's presence meant a LOT to Jason. It did for all five of them, it was a really special time, but it perfectly encapsulates Jason's relationship with Take That and his priorities.

If you watch them in Look Back Don't Stare, there's a moment where Jason and Rob have a disagreement. Jason takes an issue with a verse of Rob's and they go back and forth for a bit before Jay quietly gets up and leaves. When he comes back, Rob explains that he felt hard done by the criticism because it'd taken him a few days to write and he was connected to how he'd done it. He also apologises for being defensive. It's that level of understanding and empathy and communication that really affects me when I see it. It's an example of what Jason wanted. He said he wasn't afraid to hit a wall or argue. He wanted it. It was healing.

Progress was a full circle experience. Mark was floating for a year. It was also exactly what Rob needed and it gave him the confidence to return to his solo career. Unfortunately, when Rob left that was all the reason Jason needed to leave too.

So why does he not stay in contact with the others? Why did he disappear? This is a whole other question honestly, with a few different explanations. But I think it's just simply that he wants to leave it behind. He's 54 years old, he wants a normal life with his boring business (which just so happens to make a shitton of money. recurring theme, anyone?). Take That was a chapter in his life and it ended a long time ago. He got the closure he needed, and he doesn't care to be a musician. I think it'd be too distracting and maybe painful to still be around TT3.

Relationship with Robbie

Finally: I understand why people think Jason and Robbie didn't get on in the 90s. As the "wise, level-headed" one, Jason would've found Rob's antics and immaturity annoying. It's also known that Jason felt responsible for pushing Rob out of the band, hence why that reconciliation was so important.

Personally, I think they got on fine, generally. Their dynamic in the band isn't seen as much as the others, and of the Rob pairings it's probably the weakest. They were so oppositional they probably didn't know what to do with each other. Rob thought very highly of himself and was ambitious since the beginning, but he still recognised that Jay knew what he was doing. He was older and actually had the experience. Then as the band took off, Jason settled into his position while Rob was Not Doing That. I think for all his nonchalance, Jason took Take That very seriously. It probably frustrated him that Rob wasn't playing along. Jason also probably held resentment towards him for the fallout his leaving brought. There were serious complications between July '95 when Rob left and February '96 when the band announced the split. It left a lot of broken bitterness. Jason refused to engage with Rob in any form, he never bought his music for instance, but clearly, deep down, he wanted to reconcile. They loved each other. They were brothers. That's how it is with brothers.

[nobodysomeday]

I wanna talk about Jonny Wilkes for a minute because he's been on my mind again and I gotta get this out. Basically, Ayda gets a lot of credit for saving Rob, and rightly so. So much of who he is now is down to her and Rob is very vocal about that. BUT!!! I feel like Jonny Wilkes did a lot of the work long before her. Like he was helping Rob before he was sober the first time, when he was still drinking. And continued to closely support him through to at least the end of 2006 when Close Encounters ended, and has continued to be a close friend.

Like that night at the MTV awards in Stockholm. They talked about it in Nobody Someday (the film) and there's more detail in Feel (Chris Heath's book), but my takeaway from that night is that Rob was in such a bad way that he could've died. Jonny (and Josie) being there to stop him changed that. And on all the other slightly less insane nights out they had together, Jonny was always looking out for him. He ALWAYS had Rob's best interest at heart when somebody else might've taken advantage.

And Rob taking Jonny on tour got him through those tours I think. Those years were really hard for Rob, you see so much of it in the footage from those days where he straight up just doesn't want to do it. But Jonny grounded him and supported him and was just there. In doing so, Jonny sacrificed a lot of his life for him, which he did willingly and out of love, but he had his own career that got put aside.

When introducing Jonny at the Albert Hall show in 2001 Rob says "without him I wouldn't be performing in a dinner jacket tonight, I'd probably be performing in a straight jacket." It's a joke, but it's an open testament to what their friendship meant to him. They even lived together. He was a caring and watchful eye. And the press loved to speculate about them but neither really cared! A lesser friend would make a problem out of the attention.

Short clip of Jonny in 2008 talking about Rob and his part in motivating his comeback:

"we will, we will" just fuck me uuuuuup

I don't think Jonny ever fully understood Rob and what went on inside, but that's beside the point. For a long time they were the only two peas in that fucked up pod and I really appreciate what Jonny Wilkes did.

[nobodysomeday]

always loved the way mark owen says 'record'

reck-arrd. we put out our reck-arrd. we're dead pleased with the new reck-arrd...

[nobodysomeday]

Hey how do we feel about the fact that it's Jason flying away and ascending on the Progress album cover? Are we okay with that? We just let that happen in 2010?

[nobodysomeday]

watching the '95 earl's court concert and feeling physically unwell looking at the fifth unused travelator during never forget

[nobodysomeday]

I love Take That. It’s a group of people who got a happily ever after 20 years ago that hasn't stopped

[nobodysomeday]

Bournemouth Evening Echo: Tuesday, November 9, 1993

'That's my big brother up there'

At a glance, he looked like any other young fan at a Take That concert. But for 18-year-old Paul Clarke last night's BIC show had a special significance. For up on stage was his step-brother Jason Orange. Paul, an accounts clerk from Parkstone, is the son of Jason's father's second wife. The couple married when he was just eight years old and for years he has regarded 23-year-old Jason as a very special older brother. But while Take That enjoy fame and fortune as pop idols, Paul takes home just £110-a-week. And while Jason has to fight off the adoring girls, Paul doesn't even have a girlfriend. He even says he is struggling to keep in touch with his step-brother. Even though he was at last night's concert, neither Jason nor Take That's management had made any attempts to organise a meeting between the two. He hadn't even been given a free ticket. But he is philosophical. "I last spoke to Jason three or four months ago," he said. "He knows I'm here, I've managed to get a message to him and I'm hoping I'll get to see him tomorrow night but I really don't know."

[nobodysomeday]

Robbie Williams' speech at the preview party for Radical Honesty in London

You know, there’s a lot of negativity when it comes to celebrities doing art, they say they shouldn’t do it. In particular, a few things have been leveled at me. The question is always ‘why?’ And when they say ‘why?’ it’s always with a dismissive tone.

They say: “when you’ve had fifteen number-one albums and you sell-out stadiums around the world. Why?”

When you’ve won more BRITs than anyone else they say “why?”

When you’ve got such beautiful green eyes they say “why?”

They say “when you’re so strong and yet so supple and do so much important work for charity,” they say “why?”

When you’re such a loving husband and obviously an incredible father they say “why are you doing this, Robbie?!”

These are not my words. These are the critics saying this. They say, “Yes Robbie! Your art may be genre-defining, incredibly moving— but WHY?!” And then they say, “we can spot you’re an obvious genius Robbie, we’re not stupid! But what about the struggling artist, what about them?” Well, I can look those critics dead in the eye tonight and say this: when I’ve successfully commercialised this project— and I will! I will take some of the cash and buy some of their art with it. But not just… Y’know, just bits ’n bobs.

So let the critics say that I’m too multifaceted, that I should leave room for the less creatively gifted, let them fire away with their questions: “How can anybody smell that nice?” “Are there any tickets left for your stadium tour this summer?” Well, there’s a few left for the second night at the Emirates at the Arsenal gig, but they’re going really quickly. Thank you for asking me that, critics.

Yes, some may call me a national treasure. Well, I say what point is there being a national treasure if you don’t give some of that treasure away in the form of merchandise and affordable yet aspirationally-priced prints numbered one to a hundred? Yes, if I listen to what the critics say I wouldn’t do anything, I wouldn’t be anyone, I wouldn’t go anywhere. And yet here I stand before you yet again with complete humility. In fact, if there was an award for most humble celebrity I would definitely come second, that’s how humble I am.

Anyway, enough about the critics. Tonight’s about you, and you telling me how fucking amazing my art is. Thank you for coming.

[nobodysomeday]

ever think about the irony in the fact that the song the boys sang at the "audition" in La Cage for Take That was Nothing Can Divide Us?

[nobodysomeday]

hi!!! i have a rob/TT question: how long did the progress era actually last and how did robbie leave again? like, did they announce it somewhere, was it always obvious he'd leave eventually or...? i hope this makes sense haha and please elaborate all that you want, i enjoy reading your takes! 🌟

Hi anon thank you for saying you enjoy my takes you're crazy <3

The Progress ~era~ is only 2010 to 2011. A short-lived and beautiful experience. Like a shooting star 💫

They all met together and reconciled in early 2009 when Take That was in LA. In July 2010 it was confirmed the Rob was returning and there would be an album. Work was pretty much done on Progress by then, they'd started in late 2009. Rob and Gary promoted Shame in August 2010, and in November Progress was out! Then the tour followed and it was all over by July 2011.

Throughout the Progress era it was never assumed that Rob would stay. There was just a vague hope that they'd get to do it again as a five "at some point" but they all knew it was unlikely to be the next one. Progress was treated as special and unique thing. They were aware that it was temporary.

I think Rob definitely had moments though where he felt that he'd much rather be Robbie in Take That than Robbie Williams again and would stay in the band forever, but he always changed his mind because that just isn't his nature. He has to be Robbie Williams.

The stars just happened to align perfectly to allow Progress to happen. We were pretty lucky. Then the album/tour cycle ended and everyone took a break and eventually moved to do solo stuff. There wasn't a dramatic breakup or solemn announcement. And Take That wasn't going to be doing anything for a couple years anyway so there was no need to make that call I don't think. A day just came where it was over.

[nobodysomeday]

"Will Jason ever want to come back?"

"Should Robbie perform with Take That again?"

Foolish questions. All that needs to happen is they need to find the boys that played little Rob and little Jay on the '95 tour and you have all 5 members again. It'd be cheaper too.

[nobodysomeday]

Nate as a character doesn't exist in real life and his story in the film does not follow anyone's that we know of. He's more like an amalgamation of a number of Rob's friends from Stoke. He's nobody in particular, but that means he probably is a bit of Jonny. Though they wouldn't have been close mates as teenagers or been drinking together, given that when Rob was 15 Jonny was only about 11.

One detail that I can think of that relates to reality is Nate being in double glazing. It refers to Rob's very brief stint in the profession via a mate, before he got into Take That.

I wanna talk about Jonny Wilkes for a minute because he's been on my mind again and I gotta get this out. Basically, Ayda gets a lot of credit for saving Rob, and rightly so. So much of who he is now is down to her and Rob is very vocal about that. BUT!!! I feel like Jonny Wilkes did a lot of the work long before her. Like he was helping Rob before he was sober the first time, when he was still drinking. And continued to closely support him through to at least the end of 2006 when Close Encounters ended, and has continued to be a close friend.

Like that night at the MTV awards in Stockholm. They talked about it in Nobody Someday (the film) and there's more detail in Feel (Chris Heath's book), but my takeaway from that night is that Rob was in such a bad way that he could've died. Jonny (and Josie) being there to stop him changed that. And on all the other slightly less insane nights out they had together, Jonny was always looking out for him. He ALWAYS had Rob's best interest at heart when somebody else might've taken advantage.

And Rob taking Jonny on tour got him through those tours I think. Those years were really hard for Rob, you see so much of it in the footage from those days where he straight up just doesn't want to do it. But Jonny grounded him and supported him and was just there. In doing so, Jonny sacrificed a lot of his life for him, which he did willingly and out of love, but he had his own career that got put aside.

When introducing Jonny at the Albert Hall show in 2001 Rob says "without him I wouldn't be performing in a dinner jacket tonight, I'd probably be performing in a straight jacket." It's a joke, but it's an open testament to what their friendship meant to him. They even lived together. He was a caring and watchful eye. And the press loved to speculate about them but neither really cared! A lesser friend would make a problem out of the attention.

Short clip of Jonny in 2008 talking about Rob and his part in motivating his comeback:

"we will, we will" just fuck me uuuuuup

I don't think Jonny ever fully understood Rob and what went on inside, but that's beside the point. For a long time they were the only two peas in that fucked up pod and I really appreciate what Jonny Wilkes did.