#oath of devotion paladin as carefully as possible: i would really like to not have to kill you

[thedragonagelesbian]

chewing on this forever actually (like astarion chewing on cyrus)

[wearepaladin]

I’m looking to play a redemption paladin and would love to hear your thoughts on the Oath compared to the others? It seems to be a really common one but I don’t see much discussion on it

Like the Oath of Devotion, the Oath of Redemption is a virtue driven oath with clear image of how it achieves its vision, and unlike Ancients or Vengeance, cuts away ambiguity and has a very clear code of conduct and ethic for its paladin to follow.

Peace. Violence is a weapon of last resort. Diplomacy and understanding are the paths to long-lasting peace.

Innocence. All people begin life in an innocent state, and it is their environment or the influence of dark forces that drives them to evil. By setting the proper example, and working to heal the wounds of a deeply flawed world, you can set anyone on a righteous path.

Patience. Change takes time. Those who have walked the path of the wicked must be given reminders to keep them honest and true. Once you have planted the seed of righteousness in a creature, you must work day after day to allow it to survive and then flourish.

Wisdom. Your heart and mind must stay clear, for eventually you will be forced to admit defeat. While every creature can be redeemed, some are so far along the path of evil that you have no choice but to end their lives for the greater good. Any such action must be carefully weighed and the consequences fully understood, but once you have made the decision, follow through with it knowing your path is just.

Even if you subtracted all the further details on how this oath is meant to be lived, the virtues it honors would tell you what you need to know. Peace, Innocence, Patience, and Wisdom. Put that all together, it's hard to go too off the reservation on what the oath expects of you.

Thus, you can understand why I have a lot of respect for redeemers and more often than not I think if a Redeemer gets the support they need, they'll lead the way to the best of all possible worlds. I only hedge closer to Devotion because that oath recognizes an immediacy for action that Redemption might find detrimental to taking the time to determine the optimal path.

[johnandrasjaqobis]

Okay I was reminded to ramble about Fjord today and I have the time and the internet now SO

(disclaimer 1: spoilers for recent CR Events re: Fjord, obviously, proceed at your own risk)

((disclaimer 2: I don’t see much of the fandom besides art so this ramble might have happened in a similar way elsewhere but I’m gonna do it anyway))

with that said, under the cut because as usual I’m long-winded

re: Fjord and paladin oaths

I know it will be two more levels from now before it happens, because Fjord is still just a baby level 1 paladin, but in two more levels he hits the first milestone and takes an oath. Having two paladins of my own (which makes them sound like cats or something) I have stared at the different options for oaths at length, and I stared at them a while longer last night when I realized Fjord would have to take one himself.

this is all, of course, assuming that Matt won’t homebrew one for Travis given these bizarre circumstances of a multiclass, which he totally could pull off but I don’t know if he’d want to throw yet another untested thing into the mix. or maybe he would, who knows, anyway

Judging by their tenets, a few can be ruled out with some certainty -- he’s obviously no oathbreaker at this point, treachery doesn’t have tenets but seems a little dark for even this morally ambiguous squad, same with conquest, and others like the crown and devotion call for following the law and focus on honesty which like.......this is a man who spent a stretch as a pirate pretty eagerly and lies his way out of so many situations. Anything is possible when you decidedly throw off the control of a creepy sea monster but it seems doubtful.

Which leaves the two I’m putting my money on but can’t decide which seems more likely.

Oath of the Ancients is nature-based, which made it my first thought because Wildmama and all that, it fits her very well. The tenets fit her, too;

Kindle the Light. Through your acts of mercy, kindness, and forgiveness, kindle the light of hope in the world, beating back despair.

Shelter the Light. Where there is good, beauty, love, and laughter in the world, stand against the wickedness that would swallow it. Where life flourishes, stand against the forces that would render it barren.

Preserve Your Own Light. Delight in song and laughter, in beauty and art. If you allow the light to die in your own heart, you can't preserve it in the world.

Be the Light. Be a glorious beacon for all who live in despair. Let the light of your joy and courage shine forth in all your deeds.

and then on a Very Different note, there’s the Oath of Vengeance, which is more focused on administering justice;

Fight the Greater Evil. Faced with a choice of fighting my sworn foes or combating a lesser evil, I choose the greater evil.

No Mercy for the Wicked. Ordinary foes might win my mercy, but my sworn enemies do not.

By Any Means Necessary. My qualms can't get in the way of exterminating my foes.

Restitution. If my foes wreak ruin on the world, it is because I failed to stop them. I must help those harmed by their misdeeds.

They are like...very different oaths, extremely different focuses and strategies. But at this point, with Fjord still so new to this particular direction of things, I feel like there’s a pretty even chance of him going with either. And I think it’s going to rely a lot on his feelings with this whole paladin thing and his goals with Uk’otoa

bc it’s not gone. and it’s almost certainly pissed it lost one of its more powerful warlocks to such a different path.

Fjord’s got a new adopted mom -- one who will, definitely expect things of him herself, but those things aren’t likely to involve unleashing an eldritch horror upon the world. She seems to genuinely love her kids, and she’s been so welcoming to this new one that kind of stumbled into her presence, still with this remnant of the darkness he used to serve clinging to him, and she knows (and told him) that it’s likely he’ll never fully be rid of that. He found his powers from something unspeakably dark, and that will linger, but now he has the opportunity to see the alternative and get thrust into the light that the Wildmother is so dedicated to.

Hence the Oath of the Ancients.

He might have only started to touch the edge of the potential Uk’otoa’s powers held, but even that edge was dark. Now that he’s seeing the other side, he might be determined to -- as the tenets say -- cultivate that light as much as possible. Dive head-first into the brightness that nature can hold, embrace the sunlight on the sea more than the storms. Preserve his own light that’s been stubbornly holding out (with so much help from the rest of the Nein) even with the previous master that would have delighted in snuffing it. 

Look at his past, look at Uk’otoa, and do a stubborn 180 straight into the light, because now he has the opportunity to, and he’s going to walk with the Wildmother to spread it into the darkest shadows the Nein sees on their travels.

but on the other hand

Fjord is a fighter, always has been. Even if he’s fighting with his words, it’s been necessary pretty much his entire life.

and then he was pulled into this pact while on the brink of death, he was strong enough to garner the attention of this thing that decided Fjord was a prime candidate to help it break free.

He did not pick this pact, not really. Not willingly. He was picked, and he adapted as he always has, worked with what he had and embraced the power that came with it because hey, it’s real useful when you’re suddenly with this group that attracts danger every day.

And then he was used. Got back to the sea just to find out that his patron wanted out, and it was going to carefully prod and direct its followers to do it. And he got real close to actually doing it.

and then didn’t.

and Uk’otoa was pissed about it.

There was the whole realization that like, okay, maybe relying on this eldritch horror for powers isn’t such a good idea. And there was a volcano and a melted sword, and through a combination of good luck (would anything other than a volcano have really destroyed the pact weapon?) and a whole lot of recklessness, he severed the tie.

Fjord got a second chance. He did not unleash Uk’otoa, he got out of his pact (as far as any of us know), and he found someone that happily took him in and restored his powers. But he hadn’t picked that first route in the first place.

He was picked, and what’s to stop Uk’otoa from picking more people? People who won’t be so lucky, or just as likely, ones who won’t see anything wrong with setting this thing free?

What’s to stop other things, maybe even stronger than Uk’otoa, from doing something similar?

maybe Fjord is to stop them. because he’s the one who’s seen both sides, one more willingly than the other, and he knows what lurks in the depths of those seas, and it should not.

Look at his past, look at Uk’otoa, and say fuck you, you used me, but I won’t let you use anyone else. Walk with the Wildmother as an avenger for those who didn’t have a choice and bring proper justice down on the things that warped the unwilling, because if he doesn’t, who will?

tl;dr: my money is on either Oath of the Ancients or Oath of Vengeance come Fjord’s third paladin level, but which one entirely depends on his view of this new path and what he wants to accomplish with it, and right now they seem equally likely.

[wearepaladin]

Paladin Oath Breakdown