#one thing about me though is by the limited seasons I've watched in got cersei is one of my fave characters hahaha

[hoarsedevours]

really what's up with all this righteousness? in my dragon show??? no wayyy! Outdo their atrocities with novel dumbfuckeries and do it in a show stopping way, this is what is all about!!!

this is why i love the greens, they were written to be the villains. One subgroup thinking they are not (alicent lol) and the others reveling in this (aemond probably but i don't know im not serious about this show tbh i only watched this because their white hairs are fascinating 😭) the greens are compelling, they are distinct. I feel like they were written better than most of team black's members. Despite that i am also for team black because they are way sexier (TO ME) the red and black costume motifs, dragons (they are very important in my dragon show ok that's why i watch this shit), fireee, dragon riders, emma d'arcy, EMMA D'ARCY, EMMA D'ARCY my queem 10000X and matt smith sometimes.

Back to one of my points that i feel like team greens were written to be some sort of villains compared to the blacks....i hate that. Please let them be all villains together. I don't like it when the audience back a character just because they're "good"??? Uhmmmm but they're boring? Boooo gtfo with your moral righteousness ! They do not even contribute well to the sexiness of the lore? If they are good, why are they laying their life over a crown? that will eventually wage wars later on? gshshshs

[miazeklos]

That makes sense. Thanks for answering. You mentioned you’re a fan of Sansa and Dany and I wonder what your thoughts were about Dark Dany? Was that offensive too? Do you think that’s where the books will go?

Anytime! I love talking about this ever divisive piece of media, haha. This is gonna be a long one too, probably.

Ohhh, boy, Dark Dany. I didn't think it was offensive; I actually rather think it made sense because a specific set of things happened to her in a very limited time and that made 'let it be fear' and The Bells in general inevitable, IMO. To this day I honestly have more problems with how the fanbase/the general public later interpreted it rather than with the narrative itself, which was genuinely more respectfully handled than I think it will be in the books (but then again, that's what I think about the fates of the majority of the female characters).

I wrote a bit (not really a bit) about it in this post after the show ended, though it was in the context of her way of ruling when compared to Cersei and why, in the end, their stories ended the way they ended despite the widespread fandom belief that their plots were 'swapped' at some point, but to summarise - even without earlier foreshadowing (which was scattered here and there), season 7 was, to me, very obviously and specifically setting up that exact showdown as the final battle, with that exact result.

Dany was not welcome on Westerosi soil since the start, and while she was - as she herself points out - far more aware of the political climate than Viserys was, she still expected to be a liberator to these people, and she ended up being... not that. She, without meaning to, proved Cersei's propaganda about her right very early on. People who should have been her allies deliberately chose to fight for her enemy. A lot of people who were her allies were destroyed/her resources diminished because war in Westeros is different and, relatedly, because Tyrion talked her out of taking action and landed her in a lot of things she had no business being in to protect his family (like the whole wight plot, which lost her a dragon, and literally everything that happened in 8x04). She felt she couldn't trust anyone; Jon being neither here nor there was almost the final straw.

So she takes the city, and she's won. She's on Drogon's back and she looks down and people are obviously terrified, and calling for the queen to ring the bells and surrender, and that's precisely what happens. And I'm once again repeating myself, but watching that entire set up back then immediately made me think of this:

“Rhaegar… Rhaegar won, damn him. I killed him, Ned. I drove the spike right through that black armor into his black heart, and he died at my feet. They made up songs about it. Yet somehow he still won."

Dany didn't just want to rule over Westeros/King's Landing: the entire time, she thought of it as going home. This was not a home and her victory felt hollow, because she's got citizens who are scared of her, and she's lost essentially everything fighting for a seat that now means nothing. I don't have love here; I only have fear.

Was she mad as in insane? No. I think she was mad as in furious. With that reading in mind - and, again, the detailed build-up of her in Westeros provided by the prior season, I thought that 'twist' made perfect sense and wasn't really a twist but rather a heartbreaking but natural, gradual progression.

As for the books... Full disclosure: while I've read them all (as in, the entire ASOIAF series, Fire and Blood and a few other ASOIAF-adjacent projects not relevant to this ask), I've never analysed them in-depth like a lot of people on here have: certainly not the way I've analysed the TV show. But still, yes, I think that that's probably where book!Dany is also headed. I don't know who'll be on the other side then, as Aegon from the books got his story kinda split up between Jon and Cersei on the show, so really it could be anyone, but I think the progression towards this situation will be a similar one, both because it makes sense for the same reasons and because I doubt that the writers would take a liberty this big in the endgame where they were, apparently, given pointers for all major characters.

[vieverdeen]

Thoughts on 8x03. I need to vent.

WARNING: this contains dark! Dany, crumbs of Jonsa i guess, anti sanarion, anti jonerys, anti daenerys, anti tyrion, anti d&d, basically anti everything, and lots and lots and lots of complaining. LOTS. And bitching. I hated 8x03. If you liked it, I suggest you keep scrolling. Please keep scrolling. I don't want any heat, dont want to offend anybody, I just so BADLY need to vent.

Also, i post in the Jonsa tag, because that's my main fandom and where i feel safe.

ALSO SPOILERS!

This episode was an epitome of disappointment. I can't even. All this bragging how it was going to beat BotB and Hardhome, even freakin HELMS DEEP (the audacity) and ZERO payoff. I'll try to be as brief as possible(I probably won't be).

1. Whover was the mastermid behind this battleplan should hang. What the actual fuck. What the f*ck was the deal with stationing all The Unsullied and Dothraki OUTSIDE?! I mean i get it - there's limited space at Winterfell, and those are huge armies. But later, when it all goes to hell with the Dothraki and so on, and Dadvos screams "man the walls!" there are so few people actually inside, that could man the walls! I mean, the defenders should form a freaking wall themselves, to push down as many wights as possible! And they weren't even in position, on the battlements!

2. The charge was fucking idiotic. I really don't get it - was it a rash decision of the Dothraki, inspired by Mel lighting their arakhs, that they were like "yeah, why not, let's roll", without any order? Or was it an ACTUAL plan for them to charge the AotD, without anybody knowing Mel would show up and do what she did, with regular weapons, not even Valyrian steel or dragon glass?! I mean, did they WANT to give the NK more meat for his army? THE STUPIDITY

3. What was the deal with Arya during the battle? All of the sudden she's inside the castle, terrified, walks into the library and hides from one(!) wight - seeing as in the beginning she wasn't aware there were more. The whole library scene was exhausting to watch, and not because of the suspence, but again, because of the stupidity of it. It felt out of nowhere and pointless. And damn, I remember all of the speculation when the trailer came out- why is Arya so terrified, what is she running from? Is it Rickon or whatnot? Nope. No surprises here. Just regular whights, just like the ones she was going all assasin-mode on a minute ago.

3. Jon, Daenerice and their lizards. I mean, could they have been any more useless?! Dani burns some wights in the beginning and thats it. The most frustrating part was, that they haven't even once used the goddamn dragons to fry Viserion. Not once! There was some hands-on dragon combat but that was it. At various moments I wanted the NK to win, seriously. When they flew above the clouds and Viserion disappeared, i half expected the nephew and his aunt to sing "A whole new world" together and fly away. Wouldn't have made a difference.

4. I will give them one thing, the part with Dany falling off of Drogon and him abandoning her was satisfying. Shame that Jorah ex Machina was soo predicrable (glad it wasn't Jon though). Also, I will say, that Jorahs death was the one scene I actually liked, it brought me back to season 1 and I felt for Daenerys for a moment.

5. The crypts. I mean, the way Tyrion has been made by the show to be the Most Moral Man in the Universe, with his magical, genius mind has become unbearable. I wanted to smack him, seriously. Of course YOU should be out there Tyrion, YOU might notice something others won't. Sansa put him in his place, but I would prefer it if she remaind cold towards him, like in the first episode, just beacuse the amount of sanarion being pushed down our throats was making me gag. Saying they would never have worked because of Dani? Sansa love, you dont have to be polite. It would never have worked because Sansa did not love him, wasn't attracted to him, was forced to marry him as a child, because he's a father-killing, whore-mongering alcoholic. I was SO scared they would actually kiss in that scene when they were hiding. I was about to puke. Seriously, Sophie has an amazing chemistry with nearly everyone and clearly it was visible in this scene, but for the love of God I could not bear it.

6. Missandei and her "if it werent for the Dragon Queen we'd all be dead". I need someone to step up ASAP and make it clear that if it werent for Dani and her dumbass advisors the NK WOULDNT HAVE A F*CKING DRAGON!!! And the Wall still would be standing! Why don't these things matter? Like at all?? Why?! D&D just dont give a fuck.

7. Bran. The Three-Eyed Raven. All those seasons, the impossible journey, the sacrifice of Hodor, Jojen, Meera, Summer, all the 8-year build up for the AotD to end like... this. No resolution, no answers, no explanation. And Bran does nothing. It was so underwhelming. Every single fanfic I've read was better than this. He just warged into some ravens and went for a flight. Coolcoolcool.

8. The final scene, with the music and everything was, much like the rest of the episode, exhausting. The pacing was all over the place, either too slow or too fast. It sure was nice of the NK to give Theon and Bran some extra time so they could look at each other meaningfully, with Bran taking his sweet time to assure Theon that his character arc has been completed and he's most welcome to die for him now. The NK was actually a big softie on the inside, truly. Applies also for the never-ending look he exchanged with Bran before actually trying to kill him.

Till the last moment I was hoping that Bran would pull something out. That he couldn't have been THIS useless. Anything, I would have even taken time travel, anything. But GoT has stopped shocking and surprising a looong time ago, and we got Arya instead. I guess she's so awesome now, kinda like a supernatural being, that the only sign of her coming is a light breeze moving one's hair. I don't quite get when did she actually learn to fly/jump so high, maybe at some point in Braavos, between washing dead bodies and fighting with sticks? (okay, here's a rabbit hole to avoid - Aryas plot since sason 6, when suddenly she becomes a worrior able to best Brienne in combat). I would really like Arya killing the NK, if it was done and executed better, with a decent build-up and all of that. Not like this. It was so fucking easy it hurt.

9. Jon was useless. Useless I tell you. Dani being useless was sorta satisfying, as I'm anti dany, but Jon has been obsessed with the AotD and the NK for too many seasons now. I guess I should be thankful that at no point the line "i thought i lost you" has been uttered.

10. When the episode ended, me and my sister were like, "damn, dani has actually lost all her armies. game over for her." I mean she lost all of the Dothraki, almost all of the Unsullied? But God, did we underestimate Dumb&Dumber's dumbness! OF COURSE in the promo Dani still has an army and is ready to go to war with Cersei. OF COURSE. Fuck logic, fuck the facts, fuck the plot. Things havent been making any sense for a while now, so why bother at the end?

11. One more thing about Ghost - i love this boy with all my heart, and that's why it pisses me off so much that after SEASONS of neglecting him and favouring the lizards, the writers bring him back for some meaningless cameos, without Jon interacting with him ONCE. The discrespect! Seriously, at this point Ghost should just switch owners. Jon better stay with his pet reptalian.

Sidenote: I won't even go into no Jonsa goodbye scene. No goodbye-scene for Jon with any of the Starks. Coolcoolcool.

There is more, I'm sure, but I cant remember and I'm too tired. I dont even know what I expected. Maybe because the 2 first episodes were decent I was hoping for something remotely good. But D&D reminded me that no one can dissapoint like they can.